Vietnamese Coffee

[ollylama]

My lady friend came back from a trip to Vietnam and brought with her some delicious Vietnamese coffee (the kind you make in the tiny little metal cups with the screw-in plunger). Sadly, we've run out and are going into detox shock. Anyone know if it's possible to buy real Vietnamese coffee in Chiang Mai?

I love the smell of Vietnamese coffee in the morning. Smells like Victory.

[gpdjohn]

Google "Highlands Coffee".

Highlands is kinda like the "Wawee" of Vietnam and I must admit, a pretty darn good cup 'o joe. I bought numerous bags (ca' phe' Xay ) of the dark espresso,"Loan Di Sa'n" and the "filter" that goes on the cup. Deliciously strong... & keeps ya regular.

I do not believe that they sell online, but provide address of numerous shops around Saigon and Hanoi who might mail order some.

Sorry I could not provide more help.

[Tyke]

I brought some back from Vietnam and am trying to give it away to friends - horrible stuff that seems to go through the filter - like a cross between instant and ground coffee - too much of a burnt taste because the Vietnamese fry their beans in oil before grinding it - disgusting stuff.

[gpdjohn]

Yeah, if you're not used to it, it does have a tendiacy to taste like shit.

And if you're into that, sivet coffee in Vietnam. Beans thru the ass of a sivet...

Mummmmmm, my coffee tastes like shit.

[LomSak27]

the kind you make in the tiny little metal cups with the screw-in plunger

Yeah have one myself they're kinda cute

More to the point you need a dark roast - expresso, Italian, French, come to think of it Starbucks is notorious for just that roast, uh erm. Then use your cup.. It won't be the same as Viet coffee because chances are you had robusta coffee (dark roast) and not arabica, even if the jar said arabica. As for the civet cat coffee its just treated with a chemical, that is the facts jack, sorry to be the one to tell you but ... good con job though. As another poster mentioned they fry beans in oil, some shops don't, most do. You may get a french roast robusta in CM but it might not have that gut rot flavor because the didn't roast in oil.

Search on grasshopper

[PoorSucker]

Didn't knew they grew coffee in Vietnam.

[sabaijai]

Olly your taste in coffee matches your taste in whisky. But if VN coffee is your thang (Thai northern-grown arabica are way better), basically what you want is a northern-grown robusta that lacks bite, so almost any brand of Thai coffee that doesn't say 'arabica' on the package will come close enough, although the grind won't be as fine (grind it some more if you need it that fine).

IMHO VN coffees lack the 'bright tones' or acidity of real world-class coffees (like Tanzania peaberry, AA Kenya, Panama Esmeralda, etc) and are more similar to mild beans from Sulawesi and Java. One variety of Thai coffee that reminds me of the better VN is an Aroma product, the one marked 'espresso' (though it tastes nothing like a real quality espresso roast). Every time we open a bag of the stuff, my brain blinks 'Vietnam'. I recommend you try the Aroma espresso, very VN-like.

The Aroma coffees I like most - not very much like VN coffeee - are the Gourmet Arabica (the best IMO) and the French Roast. Not sure whether Aroma coffees are available in CM though.

[polecat]

There was a Trung Nguyen shop in the basement of Central Airport Plaza. When I say 'was', I mean about 3 years ago - no idea if it's still there. I thought they were going to take over Thailand like they did Saigon - so far it hasn't happened.

What I can say is that we've been putting Trung Nguyen (pron: Chung Win (ish)) through the office filter machine and it is outstanding.

Oh, and the Civet poop coffee is mostly a hoax. Yes it exists, but by far the majority on the market is just regular coffee masquerading as poop-brew. Not that the real deal tastes that good anyway.

[ollylama]

Olly your taste in coffee matches your taste in whisky. But if VN coffee is your thang (Thai northern-grown arabica are way better), basically what you want is a northern-grown robusta that lacks bite, so almost any brand of Thai coffee that doesn't say 'arabica' on the package will come close enough, although the grind won't be as fine (grind it some more if you need it that fine).

IMHO VN coffees lack the 'bright tones' or acidity of real world-class coffees (like Tanzania peaberry, AA Kenya, Panama Esmeralda, etc) and are more similar to mild beans from Sulawesi and Java. One variety of Thai coffee that reminds me of the better VN is an Aroma product, the one marked 'espresso' (though it tastes nothing like a real quality espresso roast). Every time we open a bag of the stuff, my brain blinks 'Vietnam'. I recommend you try the Aroma espresso, very VN-like.

The Aroma coffees I like most - not very much like VN coffeee - are the Gourmet Arabica (the best IMO) and the French Roast. Not sure whether Aroma coffees are available in CM though.

au contraire mon pere. my taste in whiskey is impeccable. it's my taste in rum that stinks - which is why i do love sang som so, much to the derision of my peers.

actually the weird thing is vietnamese coffee seems to taste totally different if you brew it in the cute little cups than if you put it in a french press or whatever - there's a weird coconutty taste that i really like when you do it in the cups that totally disappears otherwise. must be some kind of vietnamese voodoo.

so what's your favorite local coffee, sabaijamocha?

[ollylama]

There was a Trung Nguyen shop in the basement of Central Airport Plaza. When I say 'was', I mean about 3 years ago - no idea if it's still there. I thought they were going to take over Thailand like they did Saigon - so far it hasn't happened.

What I can say is that we've been putting Trung Nguyen (pron: Chung Win (ish)) through the office filter machine and it is outstanding.

Oh, and the Civet poop coffee is mostly a hoax. Yes it exists, but by far the majority on the market is just regular coffee masquerading as poop-brew. Not that the real deal tastes that good anyway.

where do you find trung nguyen, senor gato de la polla? please to point me in the right direction. any distributors in cm that you remember?

[realthaideal]

After everyone hammering you for your affection for the taste of Viet coffee, Sabaijai hit the nail on the head so succinctly I got a darn good laugh out of it. And though you may beg to differ that it's rum, it all attests to the tastebuds anyway. That said I like my Sang Som too. Next time I see you I will hook you up with my hilltribe Karen guy who grows on Doi Inthanon. Apparently same as the fair trade coffee, but I buy straight from him, and man is it good! Just ground some beans the other day n the whole house smelled of good rich buttery coffee. Maybe no coconut fruity in it, but you can't beat it.

Here's one idea too - post on the TV Travel forum and recommend somebody go buy where you got yours and pick you up a bag and send it when they return. Not quite a longshot. It could happen.

[sabaijai]

I was using 'whisky' euphemistically, as the Thais do, rather than 'a rum called "Light of Ginseng".'

Actually global tanguera and leading coffee journalist Maja Wallengren told me when she was in BKK a couple of weeks ago that Vietnam is the second-largest coffee producer in the world and is a major supplier to American canned coffees such as Folger. That's the good news.

Hope this isn't too much of a buzzkill

Try asking for it like this, 'Ve vant ze vietnam coffee, now.'

I'll take Illy .... when I can afford it.

The Robusta Fuss

by Kenneth Davids

For those who just walked into the coffee movie, most of the coffee grown commercially in the world comes from trees of two species: arabica and robusta. Coffea arabica is the original commercial species of coffee, the one that Kaldi's tiresomely celebrated goats ate, the species that first sold human beings on the pleasures of the cup. Robusta, the popular name for Coffea canephora, is a lower-growing, higher bearing, more disease-resistant species first grown commercially in the early 20th century. All sorts of factors influence how green coffees taste, but if you were served a robusta and an arabica that were perfectly and uniformly handled from tree to cup, you would find that the robusta tastes heavier, more neutral, less like "coffee" and more like roasted grain, vaguely sweet and nutty. The arabica would taste brighter and drier (i.e. more acidy), with a livelier sweetness, and more complex aromatics. Robustas on an average contain considerably more caffeine than arabicas, about 30% to 40% more. Until the 20th century virtually all coffee consumed in the world was arabica. But by the mid-twentieth century robustas had established themselves in two important ways in the world of coffee. The first was as a cost-saving component in cheap grocery store (later supermarket) blends. The second was as a component of better quality blends in Europe.

Plot and Subplot

There is a robusta plot and a robusta subplot in the coffee movie currently showing in the U.S. The main plot: robustas continue to eviscerate the low-end American cup, while destroying the livelihood of many of the world's artisan coffee growers. The paradoxical subplot: some quality-oriented American roasters are discovering what European roasters have known for the last 40 years or so: Used judiciously, robustas can smooth, round, and give sweetness and weight to blends of all kinds, but particularly to espresso blends. First the main plot: Apparently with the support of the World Bank, robustas recently have been planted in very large quantities in Vietnam. These are mass-produced coffees at their most dramatic: stripped from the trees, leaves, unripe, ripe and overripe fruit and all, and dried in deep piles. All of which means the essentially bland, grainy robusta character is topped off with an assortment of off-tastes, mainly musty/mildewed and fermented. These coffees sell for considerably less than all other coffees, including better quality robustas. I am told that production costs for Vietnamese robustas are about 20 cents per pound or less, compared to, for example, production costs of 80 to 90 cents per pound for the excellent "100% Colombia" coffees competing in the supermarket. And now the current episode: Commercial dealers and roasters have learned to steam the often foul-tasting Vietnamese robustas, removing the waxy covering of the bean and muting (but not entirely eliminating) the offensive flavor notes.

[polecat]

where do you find trung nguyen, senor gato de la polla? please to point me in the right direction. any distributors in cm that you remember?

Sorry to say it was brought back by a friend who just visited VN. Check out Airport Plaza though. Basement level, right at the back (if you enter from car park end), just before you turn right towards Robinson.

Trung Nguyen signed deals to distribute here 4 or 5 years ago, but nought seems to have happened. I suppose there's always (drum roll) Internet shopping!

[gasman2]

coffee in thailand is awful compared to Vietnamese coffee, and Laotian and even Cambodian. But they are just too nationalistic to import it, its pathetic

[PhilHarries]

Didn't knew they grew coffee in Vietnam.

Like I posted on another thread, Viet Nam is the second largest coffee exporting nation after, of course, Brazil. They must grow a hel_l of a lot of it as it sometimes seems that there are more coffee shops than people here.

Anyhow I can't help in your search for real coffee in the Land of Starbucks, last time I was there I had my own stash of Trung Nguyen with me. Probably lucky I didn't get stopped at customs, they'd never have believed it was "only" coffee.

[Lordfoul]

I don't think that location lasted even 6 months.

Sorry to say it was brought back by a friend who just visited VN. Check out Airport Plaza though. Basement level, right at the back (if you enter from car park end), just before you turn right towards Robinson.

Trung Nguyen signed deals to distribute here 4 or 5 years ago, but nought seems to have happened. I suppose there's always (drum roll) Internet shopping!

[Ulysses G.]

coffee in thailand is awful compared to Vietnamese coffee, and Laotian and even Cambodian. But they are just too nationalistic to import it, its pathetic

Actually, I have been informed by pro coffee buyers that Thailand has much better coffee than the places that you mentioned. You just have to find it.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[gasman2]

Yeah sure and Thai wine is up and coming too, I'm sure, Ive yet to have seen any coffee available for purchase here that even remotely rivals Laotian or Vietnamese coffee, in those countries you have the same array of choice for different real coffees to buy that Thailand has for instant coffees, another sad example of a dumbing down of food culture that seems to be happening here. Black Mountain coffee? It tastes like a milkshake

[Ulysses G.]

I could care less as I am not a big coffee drinker, but I have heard from several people who are quite knowledgeable that Thai coffee is better than in Laos or Vietnam. Most Vietnamese beans are not even the best grade. That does not mean the drink that you buy in cafes. It means the coffee beans themselves are superior.

How can anyone say that Thailand is "dumbing down" in regards to coffee? 10 years ago it was difficult to find anything but instant and now fresh coffee is available everywhere.

Edited November 3, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[gasman2]

I could care less as I am not a big coffee drinker, but I have heard from several people who are quite knowledgeable that Thai coffee is better than in Laos or Vietnam. Most Vietnamese beans are not even the best grade. That does not mean the drink that you buy in cafes. It means the coffee beans themselves are superior.

How can anyone say that Thailand is "dumbing down" in regards to coffee? 10 years ago it was difficult to find anything but instant and now fresh coffee is available everywhere.

You may have me on the fresh coffee but this is yet another example of misplaced expat patriotism, the same that you see in the Post everyday from Roger in Pattaya. Its the same in Vietnam and Cambodia, where one westerner recently set up a website- I hate thailand. Why do expats feel the need to "defend" countries that are not their own just because they have chosen to live there. One expects its more a source of bemusement to locals than gratitude.

[PhilHarries]

You may have me on the fresh coffee but this is yet another example of misplaced expat patriotism, the same that you see in the Post everyday from Roger in Pattaya. Its the same in Vietnam and Cambodia, where one westerner recently set up a website- I hate thailand. Why do expats feel the need to "defend" countries that are not their own just because they have chosen to live there. One expects its more a source of bemusement to locals than gratitude.

I think you are a bit wide of the mark applying such analysis to UG's post. He was merely stating what others have told him plus a bit of personal observation. The quality of coffee is like the quality of any food or drink, very much a personal perception just check out any of the "where's the best <insert food/drink> in <insert town>" threads.

Having said that there are more than a few board members who will defend Thailand to their last breath despite how outrageous that defence may be. They do this for any number of reasons and not necessarily their love of the country.

I think the Thais that frequent this website are too intelligent to fall for some of the ingratiating stuff that's posted in defence of Thailand.

Stick around some, you'll be amazed at some of the pro and anti Thailand stuff that appears but take it all with a sack of salt, this is only an internet forum not the United Nations.

[sabaijai]

I could care less as I am not a big coffee drinker, but I have heard from several people who are quite knowledgeable that Thai coffee is better than in Laos or Vietnam. Most Vietnamese beans are not even the best grade. That does not mean the drink that you buy in cafes. It means the coffee beans themselves are superior.

How can anyone say that Thailand is "dumbing down" in regards to coffee? 10 years ago it was difficult to find anything but instant and now fresh coffee is available everywhere.

Have to go with UG here. Nothing to do with nationalism -- my favorite beans hail from Yemen and Kenya, and nothing from Thailand quite approaches that standard. But the current quality of Thai coffee is still ahead of that in Laos and Vietnam, in my experience.

The traditional VN coffee in the tin dripper is highly over-rated. Basically it's the same as kafae boraan here in Thailand, toothless robusta, except that by the time it finishes going through the tin dripper, which sucks out all the heat, you're left with a cup of tepid liquid. Hardly gourmet coffee. But I don't like Thai kafae boraan either, it's just as nasty but at least it comes through the 'sock' hotter.

I was in Saigon three weeks ago, and from what I experienced, VN still has nowhere near the variety of grinds and roasts that Thailand offers --- yet. Besides the Trung Nguyen chain mentioned above, Highland Coffee is another chain serving properly selected and roasted coffees. I enjoyed the open-air branch on Lam Son Square, behind the Opera House, along with the other caffeine fiends piling in daily starting at 6.30am. Even at those places, though, for me Vietnamese coffee lacks tonal balance compared to the better Thai arabicas or arabica-robusta blends. I don't know if it's the growing or processing techniques or the terrain. But it was very good coffee nonetheless and I wouldn't hesitate to buy Highland Coffee if it were offered here.

Here in Thailand my favorite supermarket brand is Aroma French Blend.