LivinLOS Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Have them fab up some square tube.. And watch the welds.. Done right square tube should not have an issue unless you have some mental leverage to secure it back there. Hiya LivinLOS! Um, "mental leverage"... Not sure what that is, but guessing I don't have any! Mental leverage being if you have the securing posts down on the grab bars mount points.. That far forward.. And then run the box support bar way back about 50cms or even more.. With only a 100mm or so between the two pivot points securing it.. Putting load on leverage like that is 'mental' So I assume there was some kind of rearward support that I cant see !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBikeBKK Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Have them fab up some square tube.. And watch the welds.. Done right square tube should not have an issue unless you have some mental leverage to secure it back there. Hiya LivinLOS! Um, "mental leverage"... Not sure what that is, but guessing I don't have any! Mental leverage being if you have the securing posts down on the grab bars mount points.. That far forward.. And then run the box support bar way back about 50cms or even more.. With only a 100mm or so between the two pivot points securing it.. Putting load on leverage like that is 'mental' So I assume there was some kind of rearward support that I cant see !! Ah! Gotcha, "Mental Leverage", cool, I learned something new today, thanks LivinLOS! Actually, the rack does have extra support- in addition to the 4 grab bar mounting points it also bolts on to the subframe at 4 more points under the pillion, like this: The tubes snapped at the bends toward the very back. (the bends at the top of picture) Obviously the weakest spot. I'll try and take some pics of the new rack later today and perhaps I can trouble you for your opinion on the new design. Happy Trails! Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinLOS Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Well that beings it down from mental leverage to possibly crazy leverage or mayby just ill advised leverage !! Would depend on the weight going in the box (but if your wife is anything like mine its probably a lot !! That or Trents ex-foliating creams).. If it was the bends then I am guessing it was the stress of bending round pipe (it doesnt like that !!).. Hard to say.. But square bar stuff should be LOADS stronger than round, harder to bend to shape, but thats the whole point !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bard Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Ah! Gotcha, "Mental Leverage", cool, I learned something new today, thanks LivinLOS! Actually, the rack does have extra support- in addition to the 4 grab bar mounting points it also bolts on to the subframe at 4 more points under the pillion, like this: The tubes snapped at the bends toward the very back. (the bends at the top of picture) Obviously the weakest spot. I'll try and take some pics of the new rack later today and perhaps I can trouble you for your opinion on the new design. Happy Trails! Tony This is where it'll weakest as you remember is also where they broke before. It gets both rotating load and tension load there. As LivinLOS state square tubing would be better, rectangular would look neater and be good, just look at the Givi and make a rough copy of it with rectangular tubing and you got a winner cheap. Maybe start producing them and selling them in kits as well. Cheers Bard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_boo Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 ^ I wonder what weight difference there is between 1mm & 2mm tubing?Hope it doesnt slow you down too much tony 555! Perhaps there's a friendly aircraft engineer lurking somewhere that can tell me what effect this will have on my drag coefficient Non-centralised mass is important enough that Ducati has switched to magnesium for the support of their guages/lights/etc..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTWoodson Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Got my bike back from the paint shop today. Looks pretty good, but I didn't have enough light to take any pics; I'll post a few tomorrow. Yes, it looks like the K-Speed bike. I hate to take someone else's design, but I didn't copy it exactly, I changed a few things, and seeing as I live in a completely different city I don't think they'll mind. I needed to keep the grab bars for my girlfriend, but had them powdercoated black which I think looks much better. The paint by the way is fire-engine red, not orange, that's just bad lighting and a cheap camera. I have to find better bolts for the sliders, they look really cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTWoodson Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) I wanted to put my old GIVI Flow side boxes on, so I had some spacers made at a metal shop. The ones for the front hole on the grab bars are 14mm long and the ones for the rear hole are 13mm. Found the nicest stainless steel bolts I could find and had the spacers chromed so they don't rust. Grand total: 200 baht. The little bolt at the top is the factory bolt. I had to play with the setup for a while, but I managed to get them tucked in pretty close to the bike and still keep the passenger footpegs free. The powdercoating matches the grab bars, which makes it look a little better. The light was failing me at the end and my camera sucks. The boxes look OK though, and didn't cost 40,000 baht. Edited April 6, 2009 by HTWoodson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 ^ I wonder what weight difference there is between 1mm & 2mm tubing?Hope it doesnt slow you down too much tony 555! Perhaps there's a friendly aircraft engineer lurking somewhere that can tell me what effect this will have on my drag coefficient Non-centralised mass is important enough that Ducati has switched to magnesium for the support of their guages/lights/etc..... I actually have a titanium coated magnesium plate in my head....its very strong & doesnt cause me to become erratic in the cold like the old steel one did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBikeBKK Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I wanted to put my old GIVI Flow side boxes on, so I had some spacers made at a metal shop. The ones for the front hole on the grab bars are 14mm long and the ones for the rear hole are 13mm. Found the nicest stainless steel bolts I could find and had the spacers chromed so they don't rust. Grand total: 200 baht.The little bolt at the top is the factory bolt. I had to play with the setup for a while, but I managed to get them tucked in pretty close to the bike and still keep the passenger footpegs free. The powdercoating matches the grab bars, which makes it look a little better. The light was failing me at the end and my camera sucks. The boxes look OK though, and didn't cost 40,000 baht. Aloha Braddah! Lookin' good! I hope you can take some more pictures when the light comes back- I bet the front end looks as good as the back. Man you've got a lot of storage space now! Wanna ride to China? (I ain't kiddin!) Happy Trails! Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bard Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I wanted to put my old GIVI Flow side boxes on, so I had some spacers made at a metal shop. The ones for the front hole on the grab bars are 14mm long and the ones for the rear hole are 13mm. Found the nicest stainless steel bolts I could find and had the spacers chromed so they don't rust. Grand total: 200 baht.The little bolt at the top is the factory bolt. I had to play with the setup for a while, but I managed to get them tucked in pretty close to the bike and still keep the passenger footpegs free. The powdercoating matches the grab bars, which makes it look a little better. The light was failing me at the end and my camera sucks. The boxes look OK though, and didn't cost 40,000 baht. Nice job done man, looking very good. Cheers Bard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontherock Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Tony, I believe you can get an adaptor that will allow the "Flow" boxes to be added onto the Monorack system. that will allow you to have the superior metal stregth but a cheaper box. Cheers Kev ^ Yeah... the new Givi series, (I think it's called the "E" series?) is ridiculously expensive. Fortunately there are still many of the older Givi "Flow" boxes and panniers available at many bike shops in Thailand (and all over SE Asia it seems). Unfortunately the new "Tubular side-case holder" (Givi part #PLX449) and Givi Monorack (Part #FZ449) for the 2009 Kawasaki ER6n and ER6f will only accomodate the new expensive Givi boxes, and not the much cheaper but equally good "Flow" boxes... Figures, doesn't it? I had a shop (Dr Bike) build me a custom rack for my ER6n to carry a 35 liter Givi Flow box. Total cost for rack, box, LED turn signals and labor was less than 9000 Baht. The rack looked well made and felt quite solid- I thought I had the perfect solution, until it broke The box pivoted under the bike and got caught under the pillion and tire nearly causing a wreck. What a mess! I'm so very lucky it happened on a straight road. You can see in the picture above how the tire melted the box- what a mess! (The dinged up helmet is not mine BTW ) Had the rack failed like this in a curve I might not be here to write about it! Turns out the shop used 1mm steel pipe and it just wasn't strong enough. Blasting from BKK to Tak with the SSR guys at speeds in excess of 200km/hr probably hastened the rack's demise, but it would have gone sooner or later the way it was built. I mailed the busted rack and ruined box back to Bangkok and finished the SSR Epic Ride like this: Well, you should have seen the look on the owner's face when I brought in the broken rack and wrecked Givi box. He was pretty cool about it and I think he realized what a monumental <deleted> up his boys caused by using the 1mm pipe. The design was fine, but the materials his crew used to build the rack were not strong enough. So- he built me a new rack free of charge, this time using 2mm pipe and a couple of other modifications that should give added strength. I haven't mounted the new rack yet. Quite frankly after my close call with the last one I'm not sure I want to use a Givi box anymore... Here's how the old rack looked: Perhaps I'll try the new one for this weeks ride to the Phuket Bike Week. There's a chance of rain and Givi boxes are quite handy for keeping things dry. Just hope the new rack holds up better than the last one! Happy Trails! Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelmate Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Square tubing is NOT stronger than round tubing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBikeBKK Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Square tubing is NOT stronger than round tubing. Hiya Travelmate! I'm no engineer, but I think the relative strength of square vs round depends on the application and what type of stress the tubing will be subject to... I'll just bolt on the new rack and if it flexes where the last one did then I'll bin it. I rather prefer a light weight pillion bag like what you've got on the Tiger anyway. Still blasting to Phuket in one go on Thursday? Might be the way to go as it looks like rain on Friday... Happy Trails! Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelmate Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 weight for weight round is stronger. Square can be stronger but has to be thicker thus heavier. I agree a Tailpack is better as it keeps weight over the wheel. A box that hangs out back does nothing for the feel of the bike. I hated it. So it tailpack for me. Yep still gonna do Phuket in one shot. Thursday is the day. Point bike south, hit the starter, engage gear, twist throttle off we go. Friday is rain day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSJ Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Putting a 75degree cold bend in small diameter tubing of 1 or 2mm stretches the bejessus out of the tube wall. Heating the whole thing until it's almost spaghetti, then running it around a mandrel to get the shape, then quenching it is the preferred method. The way of the old blacksmith still has a place in modern Thailand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bard Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Square tubing is NOT stronger than round tubing. Hiya Travelmate! I'm no engineer, but I think the relative strength of square vs round depends on the application and what type of stress the tubing will be subject to... I'll just bolt on the new rack and if it flexes where the last one did then I'll bin it. I rather prefer a light weight pillion bag like what you've got on the Tiger anyway. Still blasting to Phuket in one go on Thursday? Might be the way to go as it looks like rain on Friday... Happy Trails! Tony For cantilever tensional load the optimum design is an I beam, not very cool on a bike, so the next best thing is a rectangular tube. Your mechanics made a U design and welded on the holder for the plate in the U, this is a flawed design, because the entire load of the luggage sits on the small welds, welded to the tube where you get weakness due to the weld etc. and also the load which now is eccentric, and torsional forces comes to play, hence the weakness at the weld and your previous fatigue failure there. I see the new design looks better so it might work, you travel so light anyway, just ask the others behind to look for vibating luggage box, it there is none you're fine. Givi put two separare J's pointing upward welded to the plate as you can see from there picture, so the load comes different and this design is much more suitable, using round tube or oval or what have you, easy enough to make as well Tony. Whatever you decide I think you should go with a small bag only, it's just you, boxes does not look like Tony on tour so I vote for bag. Cheers Bard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBikeBKK Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 A very nice ER6n vid from France- Happy Trails! Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 A very nice ER6n vid from France- Happy Trails! Tony Aweful video, all you see is the ugly instrument cluster. He also speeds along the straights, whilst travelling slowly thru the corners.......hes definately got that the wrong way around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBikeBKK Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 (edited) ^ LOL- yeah, a conservative rider, but still, I like the way he put the mike under the seat- gives it a totally different sound. Just got some new Pirelli Supercorsa Pros put on the ER6 but still need to get out and get rid of those chicken strips. Was rather surprised how quickly the Dunlop Sportmax rear squared out. The front looks barely worn... Guess hot Thai roads eat tires a lot faster than what I'm used to... I didn't do any burnouts on the Dunlops but did notice the rear spun a lot on greasy roads. I think (and hope) that the Pirellis will be quite a bit stickier. May hit BIRA on Monday to put the new tires to the test if the weather cooperates. Happy Trails! Tony Edited April 9, 2009 by BigBikeBKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 tony, you might find the improvement on the rear end causes you to find the limits of the front end......don't bin it @ bira! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBikeBKK Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 tony, you might find the improvement on the rear end causes you to find the limits of the front end......don't bin it @ bira! Heh heh- I hear ya neverdie- don't worry- I changed rubber front and back and will take it easy until I get a feel for the Pirellis- Meanwhile I have a Dunlop Sportmax front that is in nearly new condition. The rear is pretty squared out but not quite down to the wear indicators yet and could be ridden for another 2-3 thousand km by a Square Tire Rider (STR) like you know who Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBikeBKK Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Ha ha! Check this out- An ER6 with Z1000 exhaust- crazy! Happy Trails! Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 ^thats seriously gey......I don't know why the Z1000 has had such seriously lame exhaust systems given to it by Kwakkazerki....there must be some real freaky dudes down there at design central. I saw some pics of a er6n that had an underseat mounted exhaust, which kinda looked kewl, but I don't see really much sense in adding so much pipe, especially when the undercarriage system is tucked away so neatly. Glad u changed bother rubber at the same time, should of known you wouldnt be tight about it......tyres wont stop you from being a nancy boy though, will they? Keep it upright ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBikeBKK Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 ^thats seriously gey......I don't know why the Z1000 has had such seriously lame exhaust systems given to it by Kwakkazerki....there must be some real freaky dudes down there at design central.I saw some pics of a er6n that had an underseat mounted exhaust, which kinda looked kewl, but I don't see really much sense in adding so much pipe, especially when the undercarriage system is tucked away so neatly. LOL- yeah- I know man! Don't know what those Zing Zhong monkey pumpers were thinking, adding the monstrous Z1000 cans to the ER6n... Thought it was worth sharing though- hope our resident K1200R-phobic gey mod hater don't have a stroke over it Mod-haters aside, there are some stunning after market pipes available for the Z1000. Ever seen the K-Factory Titanium? WOOT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBikeBKK Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 I gotta change my shorts.... Ride On! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Yes the Z1000 (Z750) are nice thangs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanW Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 I gotta change my shorts.... Ride On! Tony, I've got to get those pipes and that hugger!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTWoodson Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 I'm trying to work out the carrying capacity for my bike. Does anyone know the gross vehicle weight restriction (GVWR) and the wet weight of the er6n? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visions Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 But its not just the LCD part.. Its the acre or so of plastic surrounding it.. I know the fairings useful.. But I see the N as a much more visually appealing machine.. Heh heh- well- room for speakers and an MP3 player perhaps I have no doubt that folks will get quite creative with all of that empty real estate in the cockpit. I think that like the ER6n the ER6f is lacking a temp guage, so nice to see there's plenty of space to add that. I bet you could make some little storage 'bins' to the left and right of the digital panel for phone/smokes/etc. as it's just empty space behind all of that plastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visions Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Has anyone found any gripes with this bike yet? Things they would like changed? I havent seen any on the market for sale? I guess most are pleased with their decision to buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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