Fake Banknotes Flood Bangkok As Recession Grips

[absolutelyBangkok]

No intent to break the forum rules, but as Carib posted a download (fakes.jpg) from our website here's a clarifier. It is correct that you have to separate between an older and a newer banknote.

Generally said, there are probably more fakes of the older design around. Watch out!

[RoueLeJour]

They didn't last as long as expected. Was a good idea on paper though.

Really? All Australian notes are plastic and they seem to work fine. Very handy if you leave notes in your pocket and put it through the laundry.

[poldebol]

ATMs accept deposits, are they better or worse than humans in detecting the fake notes?

If the deposit comes through an ATM, end of the story for the crooks. It's passed.

If the ATM deposit machines work the same way as in Europe, every deposit is traceable to the depositor untill the money has been checked by a bank clerk.

[RoueLeJour]

<br />

... First, is it possible to get a fake bill from an ATM machine, in other words are the bills checked before loading up the machines...

<br /><br />The answer...no, it's unlikely you will receive a fake note from an ATM, unless the ATM is adjusted incorrectly or malfunctioning.<br /><br />ATMs check notes for width (determines demonination, most notes are different widths depending on their value) and thickness (to check for bundled notes or notes which are stuck together). Some ATMs may check for length but I haven't heard of this. They also scan the note and compute a value from the scan (can be a luminous scan or other image/optical based scan where the result must fall between preset calibration values. If any of the tests fail the note is rejected and another used.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

I used to work on NCR ATMs in the UK. What you say is true, the note is checked for dimensions and opacity (shine a light through it) and it is flushed to the spill bin if it doesn't pass, but those checks are designed to spot errors, not forgeries.

In the UK all ATMs are filled by specialist companies, but here in Thailand I've seen my local bank refill their own ATM, which makes me think twice about relying on it.

[brahmburgers]

Surely the paper needed to print fakes is a specialty item. Perhaps same for special ink, foil printing, and such.

Investigators could take a close look at where such things are sold, and who is buying them.

And yes, if a biz person or bank teller gets handed a fake, they should immediately contact the cops and get that person apprehended. Granted, the person passing the fake may not be the bad guy, but it's a step toward finding the bad guys - through questioning and investigation.

[Thaibloke]

They didn't last as long as expected. Was a good idea on paper though.

Really? All Australian notes are plastic and they seem to work fine. Very handy if you leave notes in your pocket and put it through the laundry.

plastic notes come from australia they stopped using them because they cost more , at least you can't copy them

[WinnieTheKhwai]

So.. I'm confused, the pictures on page one DONT show any fake notes correct, just different versions of legit 1000 baht notes?

So what should I look out for then?

[alex_4000]

it's not just 1000 notes... although they surely are the most painful

stopped for LPG last week on highway 2 near khao yai. had to refuse the 100 note for change: very thick paper, quite easy to spot...

of course the lady immediately gave me a decent one

[alex_4000]

So what should I look out for then?

no watermark, no reflective 1000 numbers, no black light response, thick paper

edit: real notes also have a very distinctive smell (if not too dirty

Edited December 23, 2008 by alex_4000

[MiG16]

Do I remember correctly that the old 50 baht notes used to be plastic? What happened to them?

I dont know if its called 'plastic' but yes that plastic feel to it, and a transparent circle on one side of note.

made in australia they are still about, but not sure if they will continue to commission them in australia (as might have been quite expensive)

[warmwater7]

Enlarge the picture a bit you will see that 1 and 3 are real, 2 and 4 are fake .

On the fake ones things are missing.

A real banknote bears the watermark of His Majesty the King, which can only be seen when it is held up to the light. The picture of the King, the letters and the digits showing the value on the real note have an embossed feel. Notes of 1,000-baht, 500-baht and 100-baht value have reflective and holographic metallic strips

Not entirely correct with 1000B notes.

Series 15 Type I 1000B notes from 1999 - 2004 have no holographic strip, star constellations, semi transparent lotus next to HM or small writing under 1000B logo on the reverse side.

They are still widely in circulation and the best way to determine if they are legit is black light, watermark and changing colours of the "1000" on the top right corner.

Series 15 Type II notes from 2005 - are the ones with holoraphic strip etc.

(Type I) FrontThe portrait of King Rama IX in the uniform of the Supreme Commander BackThe portrait of King Rama IX, the Pa Sak Jolasid Dam, the agricultural land managed in accordance with the New Theory Size72 x162 mm Notification DateSeptember 1, 1999 Issue DateNovember 1, 1999

(Type II)(Redesigned Version) with Hologram Foil Stripe FrontThe portrait of King Rama IX in the uniform of the Supreme Commander BackThe portrait of King Rama IX, the Pa Sak Jolasid Dam, the agricultural land managed in accordance with the New Theory Size72 x162 mm Notification DateJuly 29, 2005 Issue DateNovember 25, 2005

Cheers.

GREAT INFO. WELL DONE

[hamishgillan]

yes, just find out who does the night shift/cleaners at the royal thai mint, it's just past rangsit i think...

[Thaibloke]

They didn't last as long as expected. Was a good idea on paper though.

http://www.rba.gov.au/Museum/Displays/1988..._notes.html#top

they last 4 times longer than paper

[JustinCredible]

The wife says she heard on the news that a lot of shops are now refusing to take 1000 baht notes. Never been easy getting rid of them up here anyway.

We thought we had a dodgy one this morning. The Kings head watermark looked different and the metalic strip was only visable on one side. We gave it back to the supplier who replaced it without problems because he reckons its just an older note.

Printers of fake banknotes are liable to life imprisonment. Deliberately using the fake banknotes, meanwhile, is punishable by a jail term ranging from one to 15 years.

But self-protective vendors will risk being punished too if they reject a Bt1,000 banknote without verifying whether it is real or fake.

"Banknotes are legal tender for all debts, public and private. If you are not allowed to use your banknotes, you can lodge a complaint with the police," Deputy Metropolitan Police Commissioner Maj-General Amnuay Nimmano

[SlackJawChef]

Do I remember correctly that the old 50 baht notes used to be plastic? What happened to them?

I don't know if its called 'plastic' but yes that plastic feel to it, and a transparent circle on one side of note.

made in Australia they are still about, but not sure if they will continue to commission them in Australia (as might have been quite expensive)

They also use them in Mexico, cant be too expensive if Mexico is using them

[Datsun240Z]

I used to work in a money factory on the maintenance of the machines. I know the paper they use and methods of printing. But since the new 1000 THB notes have the bling strip and many point of reconation, it should be not that hard to see the fakes. But in a poor country it's more easy to fool the people with the money!

[soundman]

Counterfeit banknotes creating alarm

By: POST REPORTERS Published: 23/12/2008 at 12:00 AM The public can bring charges against shops that refuse to accept 1,000 baht banknotes for fear they might be counterfeit, police say.

Deputy Metropolitan Police chief Pol Maj-Gen Amnuay Nimmano said yesterday people who are issued counterfeit notes by ATMs can also file charges against banks with police.

Banknote forgers would be liable to life imprisonment and people who knowingly pass fake notes face one to 15 years in jail, he said.

The police chief spoke out after reports that many vendors were refusing to accept 1,000 baht banknotes from customers and that people were choosing to withdraw less than 1,000 baht from ATMs at each transaction, to avoid receiving 1,000 baht banknotes.

Twatchai Yongkittikul, secretary-general of the Thai Bankers Association (TBA), said the public should not panic about fake notes.

Continued here.

[ray23]

Same thing with the checks in Udon Louts is using the display listed above to check the bills. I'm going by the strip changing colors when they are bent. Seemed to eb what they are doing as well.

By the way yuo get a counterfit bill in states you are that one who suffers the loss.

[Zpete]

Fake banknotes flood city as recession grips

Warning to be alert over festive period

BANGKOK: -- Thousands of counterfeit banknotes, particularly 1,000-baht bills, are likely to go into circulation over the New Year period, the Bank of Thailand (BoT) warned yesterday.

Nopporn Pramojaney, the BoT's assistant governor for note-printing, warned consumers and businesses to watch out for odd-looking notes during the holiday season.

He said counterfeit notes in circulation increased by 80% this year, possibly as a consequence of hard economic times.

In the 12 months to the end of November, the BoT had confiscated 18,895 fake notes - compared with 10,819 notes seized in the same period last year. Most fake notes were 1,000-baht bills, which accounted for 61% of seized notes.

Mr Nopporn said that for every one million banknotes in circulation, up to 7,000 of those would be fakes.

More counterfeit notes were expected to enter circulation next year due to the economic recession.

Pol Lt-Gen Danaithorn Wongthai, chief of the Office of Police Forensic Science has given some tips for the public to differentiate real banknotes from fake ones.

A real banknote bears the watermark of His Majesty the King, which can only be seen when it is held up to the light. The picture of the King, the letters and the digits showing the value on the real note have an embossed feel.

Notes of 1,000-baht, 500-baht and 100-baht value have reflective and holographic metallic strips.

Police Region 1 recently arrested four people including a former school director, for banknote forgery, and seized 203 fake 1,000-baht notes.

Police also confiscated three compressed bricks of marijuana weighing 3kg from the suspects.

Pol Lt-Gen Chalong Sonjai, Police Region 1 commissioner, said the suspects used the fake notes to pay for drugs they bought in Laos.

In Phuket, police arrested three people and seized three fake 1,000-baht notes in Thalang district on Wednesday.

Pol Col Thammanoon Faiju, superintendent of Thalang police station, said forged bills were often used at nightspots, petrol stations or grocery stores popular with the elderly.

-- Bangkok Post 2008-12-20

Not just Bangkok. Yesterday some guys came to our village about 18 km from Si Sa Ket to buy some of our rice harvest and in paying us, thanks to my wife's sharp eyes, we noticed a few fake 1,000 baht notes.

The guy was a little shocked but he replaced them immediately without question and I think he was not even aware they were fakes.

Sure taught me a lesson and now I check all my change, even withdrawals from the bank, before moving on.

You are crazy, you should have called the BIB

This guy was most likely a person spreading the notes to innocent villagers who would be defrauded of their hard earned REAL Baht.

Stupid thing to do, warned the forgers.

[bniff]

They had another segment on thaitv about this tonight. Yes, that's the gist of what they

were saying, the notes are literally all over the country from the south to parts in issan.

Also "detector" machines apparently have surfaced. They seem to have a miniature

blacklight on them and I'm not sure what else? At the carrefour today, I paid with a

1k note and the girl made a big show about checking the bill with her machine next

to the register. Basta_d farangs I'm sure are the sole root of the entire problem.

Now I know why when I pay 1000baht I get looks, getting money from atm in 1000's. But I have to say this fake money comes from let's say rogue states-countries where producing money from weathier countries out produces printing their own currency. They have the tech and travel (greedy and uneducated) to low tech vendors that demand cash for services. It goes back (alchemy) to making gold from iron. Start a country, depress the peeps, print the money, distrubute threw other countries and profit because money does grow on trees and plants and todays economy worth more than gold if can take 1$ and make 100$. If I were smart I would just print money too, its too easy. 100,000$ buys a copy machine that will reproduce, the hard part is the water marks and the paper, third world contries use a lower grade then say sweden. But it feels the same to the untrained hand.

[notime]

They didn't last as long as expected. Was a good idea on paper though.

Really? All Australian notes are plastic and they seem to work fine. Very handy if you leave notes in your pocket and put it through the laundry.

plastic notes come from australia they stopped using them because they cost more , at least you can't copy them

Very wrong! Plastic notes can be forged as well.

I came back from few weeks in Vietnam recently and received a false 50 000 Dong note (about 100 THB) that was PLASTIC. I couldn't understand why few vendors refused to accept it from me since they didn't seem very puzzled. I though it was because the note looked a bit worned out and had few little cuts at the top of it. I finally decided to go to the bank and exchange it for a new note. To my surprise the bank refused to do so and explained to me that the note was a fake. The were not surprised at all to see it and didn't call police or anything. Apparently there are many of them in Vietnam, everybody checks for them. The banker said the source of these notes was CHINA. It's true what they say than .. China is very high-tech these days ;-)

Probably the only reason they didn't hit the Aussie market with the fake $50's is the Gestapo-like Custom's on the way in .. another example that the brute force works

[Heng]

are you seeing any increase in the numbers of fakes around , Heng ?

or any stories you have heard from your circle of friends ?

I'm hearing about it more, and certainly seeing people checking for fakes more, but other than the few scenes I see at the bank from time to time, I'm not personally seeing more fakes. Most of my revenues are bank transfers, not really cash intensive.

[Heng]

They didn't last as long as expected. Was a good idea on paper though.

http://www.rba.gov.au/Museum/Displays/1988..._notes.html#top

they last 4 times longer than paper

Be that as it may, that was the reason given on the news and by the average frontline bank tellers when they came out with the paper version (again) after the plastic ones.

[meelousee]

Just a warning for all. two hours ago I had one of the fake notes in my hand. It was very good and unless you are aware of the fake ones going around you might miss it.

Folks PAY ATTENTION to the money you get even at the ATM, that is where this one came from, receipt in hand and security camera rolling I got my money without hassel.

It could have been a loss.

WATCH OUT!

[syd barrett]

I think that it would be wisest to make ATM withdrawals of 900 Baht until this forgery business blows over later next year!

[soundman]

Merchants not wrong if reject banknotes

By: BangkokPost.com Published: 23/12/2008 at 01:33 PM Deputy police chief Jongrak Chuthanont on Tuesday said there are no laws in Thailand that prohibit vendors from refusing to accept 1,000 baht banknotes.

Many traders feared that banknotes, particularly 1,000 baht banknotes, could be counterfeit and they declined to accept them.

Pol Gen Jongrak said police cannot take legal action against merchants since there are no laws requiring them to accept banknotes from buyers.

He expressed worry about motorists using fake banknotes to pay for toll charges because toll operators have little time to inspect them.

Story continued here.

[bulmercke]

Counterfeit banknotes creating alarm

By: POST REPORTERS Published: 23/12/2008 at 12:00 AM The public can bring charges against shops that refuse to accept 1,000 baht banknotes for fear they might be counterfeit, police say.

Deputy Metropolitan Police chief Pol Maj-Gen Amnuay Nimmano said yesterday people who are issued counterfeit notes by ATMs can also file charges against banks with police.

Banknote forgers would be liable to life imprisonment and people who knowingly pass fake notes face one to 15 years in jail, he said.

The police chief spoke out after reports that many vendors were refusing to accept 1,000 baht banknotes from customers and that people were choosing to withdraw less than 1,000 baht from ATMs at each transaction, to avoid receiving 1,000 baht banknotes.

Twatchai Yongkittikul, secretary-general of the Thai Bankers Association (TBA), said the public should not panic about fake notes.

Continued here.

I have just one 1000 baht note in my possession and - yes - the water mark of His Majesty the King is clearly visible and the samll 1000 embedded in the silver strip is also present - BUT - the font typed in curved lines absolutely cannot be felt with the finger tip and the other two identifying features that should change colour when folded don't appear to do so OT it's difficult for me to distinguish whether they change colour or not when folded - AND the concealed number in the left hand corner is also not visible under a strong light -

Is this a fake note?

And if it is - do some of these fake notes have some of these identifying featues already embedded in them?

What percentage of Thai 1000 baht notes in circulation are fake?

0.0001% OR less

0.001%

0.01%

0.1%

OR worse

Edited December 23, 2008 by bulmercke

[bulmercke]

Just a warning for all. two hours ago I had one of the fake notes in my hand. It was very good and unless you are aware of the fake ones going around you might miss it.

Folks PAY ATTENTION to the money you get even at the ATM, that is where this one came from, receipt in hand and security camera rolling I got my money without hassel.

It could have been a loss.

WATCH OUT!

Meelousee - how did you know it was fake?

You mentitioned that it was 'very good'.

What tipped you off?

[ray23]

I Had nine of them checked the folding method none turned to green. However if you change the angle to the light they do. Turns to a complrete solid color. Thay also said that I folded it on TV last night two orchard halves will changed into one solid orchard again nothing.

I need to go get them changed to smaller notes got a ride Sunday don't want to be in the middle of nowhere and no one take my money when I need fuel. I'm sure the bank will check a few for me and I will try to get them to explain to me again

[cali4995]

That is the other issue. Much like the "hot-potato-game" the last player left

holding a bad note when the music stops essentially loses. Seriously,

As Soundman has generously provided us with the Bank of Thailand's pages

specifying all the security features and they have now been giving out little

pamphlets for those who don't have access to the net. Fake notes won't have

all or most of the features, I suspect lacking the majority of them. It is kind of

funny though? If I went to the currency exchange and passed a bad 100$ note,

you can be sure the police would be called. So why different with Thai money?