Thai State School Vs Bilingual School Versus International School

[stevejones123]

The data has shown for over thirty years that students who study in an immersion program in a second language perform as well in tests on their first language as students who only study in their first language.

What they aren't testing however is how well they do in all the subjects they are taught in their second language, Math, Geography, History, Physics, Biology, Economics and so on. And the truth is they are almost certainly left well behind, as their insufficient knowledge of the second language means they don't fully understand many of the explanations.

Look at the countries that insist on teaching in the first language. Nigeria, France, Germany, Japan to name a few. Look at those that have secondary and Higher Education in English; Nigeria, India, much of the Gulf. 'Nuff said.

[Xangsamhua]

The data has shown for over thirty years that students who study in an immersion program in a second language perform as well in tests on their first language as students who only study in their first language.

What they aren't testing however is how well they do in all the subjects they are taught in their second language, Math, Geography, History, Physics, Biology, Economics and so on. And the truth is they are almost certainly left well behind, as their insufficient knowledge of the second language means they don't fully understand many of the explanations.

Look at the countries that insist on teaching in the first language. Nigeria, France, Germany, Japan to name a few. Look at those that have secondary and Higher Education in English; Nigeria, India, much of the Gulf. 'Nuff said.

Steve, are you talking about an immersion program where students are taught, say Math, in the second language only?

If the students don't have the language ability to get the key concepts, understand the explanations, etc, then they shouldn't be immersed. Current attempts to teach Math and Science in English-only in Malaysia are in serious trouble except among those communities (e.g. urban Chinese and Indian) that already have a reasonable command of English.

What happens when students can't reach the language ability necessary to grasp the key learnings is that the teacher switches to the native language (this certainly happens in Hong Kong schools, for example, and I believe in Malaysia also). No teacher of Maths or Science is going to see his students fail because he insists on teaching them in a language that they can't understand.

In Thailand, if the teacher does not speak Thai and the students are not ready linguistically for immersion in that subject, students will be disadvantaged. So monolingual immersion, as proposed by the MoE for Math, Science and PE, is not a good idea, especially if the teacher can't speak Thai or is not allowed to use it.

A model that I call "parallel immersion" is followed in some (I don't know how many) Thai schools as a way out of the problem. In this model, the students are taught the key concepts and processes in Thai first by the Thai teacher. They are then taught basically the same content in English by the foreign teacher (or a Thai teacher if they've graduated from an English-medium university abroad). Although teaching the content is seen by the foreign teachers as important in itself (they're not just English teachers), the rationale for teaching the content a second time is to provide the kids with the English language applicable to the concepts and processes they've already been taught.

How does a school fit in this apparent duplication? Some corners can be cut with the permission of the Ministry and you can have a longer day or maybe some extra days (I'm not sure about the latter). I don't really know, but it happens - at my school and a number of other schools I know - and it works in terms of the results I referred to earlier.

[scorecard]

I'm also doing same research for my granddaughters education.

I'm looking at Amnuay Silpa Bilingual School on Sri Ayudhaya Road, Phya Thai area, Bangkok.

Would very much appreciate any comments members can offer on this school.

Thanks

[Jimjim]

We are in Japan, International School here.

They have to fulfill the same criterias to be accredited as an International school as BKK based schools have to. Should not matter where the school is.

It matters to the guy who was asking about international schools in Thailand.

[phuketrichard]

Basically u need to decide where your child will go to University. an International school needs to teach 100% farangs Only 1 hour a week in Thai (it could be lanuguage, history, culture, cooking) If the child is 1/2 thai than 2 hours a week,,, Even full thai kids they only need to teach 3 hours/week thai. As 1/2 thai and full thai's they will get thai at home as well as on eor both will be thai.

IF you want them to attend school in the west they need an international school. If your looking a a good University in Bangkok then a Bi-lingaul school will be fine as they will be sufficient in English and Thai.

Thai schools and ur a expat... your doing an injustice to your child.

My daughter is 14 and I just sent her back to attend high School in the states. She is doing fine and had attended BIS in Phuket. If she had been at the bi-lingial school she would be lost

[dantilley]

My daughter is 14 and I just sent her back to attend high School in the states. She is doing fine and had attended BIS in Phuket. If she had been at the bi-lingial school she would be lost

Thanks for your views Richard.

I guess this refers back to part of my original post which hasn't really been discussed yet at length - generally speaking how do the three levels of school in Thailand (Thai state school, Bilingual School, International School) compare with schools in the West? Could a good bilingual school, e.g. a University affiliated school as mentioned by IJWT earlier, match up to, say, a state school in the UK? Or would they be way off the pace, leaving you with International School as the only option to get a Western standard of education over here?

You say:

Thai schools and ur a expat... your doing an injustice to your child.

But if a good Bilingual School can be of UK state school standard then I believe sending my child there wouldn't be an injustice: if I was in the UK, I would likely use the state school system.

[way2muchcoffee]

IF you want them to attend school in the west they need an international school. If your looking a a good University in Bangkok then a Bi-lingaul school will be fine as they will be sufficient in English and Thai.

Not necessarily. A few Thai students graduating from the EP I work for go on to Universities in the West every year. Our graduating classes consist of only about 30 students each year, so when 2 or 3 go abroad for university it amounts to 10% of the class. Another 10% go on to proper Thai programs in Thai universities, while 80% go to International Programs in Thai universities.

Thai schools and ur a expat... your doing an injustice to your child.

Not a well-informed comment. At the school I work for, the upper secondary class sizes for academic subjects like science, math, and English are between 8 and 20 students. Western textbooks are used exclusively, and are selected to parallel an education in the West while meeting the advanced standards of the Thai curriculum. A well-chosen bilingual program will rival most international schools in all subjects except English.

My daughter is 14 and I just sent her back to attend high School in the states. She is doing fine and had attended BIS in Phuket. If she had been at the bi-lingial school she would be lost

The school system in the US is all over the board in terms of quality. The UK system is much better. Unless I could get my child into a strong district in the US I wouldn't even consider the option. If I were a UK citizen it would be a more difficult choice. On the other hand, I would strongly recommend a year abroad for socialization purposes.

If she had been at the bi-lingial school she would be lost

Perhaps the bilingual schools in your area, Phuket, are not good. Actually, we have had a couple of teachers come to our school who previously worked in Phuket. Their comments about their experiences in the bilingual schools there are decidedly unfavorable.

Edited December 29, 2008 by way2muchcoffee

[think_too_mut]

We are in Japan, International School here.

They have to fulfill the same criterias to be accredited as an International school as BKK based schools have to. Should not matter where the school is.

It matters to the guy who was asking about international schools in Thailand.

Why does it matter? An international school in Thailand is as good as in Japan.

Sheraton, Hilton, Hyatt.... type of quality around the world, regardless of location.

[PeaceBlondie]

We are in Japan, International School here.

They have to fulfill the same criterias to be accredited as an International school as BKK based schools have to. Should not matter where the school is.

It matters to the guy who was asking about international schools in Thailand.

Why does it matter? An international school in Thailand is as good as in Japan.

Sheraton, Hilton, Hyatt.... type of quality around the world, regardless of location.

Not always true in Thailand, where the term 'international school' is abused. Chiang Mai has proper int'l schools. But in Bangkok, apparently many so-called int'l schools are not properly accredited.

[think_too_mut]

We are in Japan, International School here.

They have to fulfill the same criterias to be accredited as an International school as BKK based schools have to. Should not matter where the school is.

It matters to the guy who was asking about international schools in Thailand.

Why does it matter? An international school in Thailand is as good as in Japan.

Sheraton, Hilton, Hyatt.... type of quality around the world, regardless of location.

Not always true in Thailand, where the term 'international school' is abused. Chiang Mai has proper int'l schools. But in Bangkok, apparently many so-called int'l schools are not properly accredited.

I qualified what I mean.

I don't know how they can abuse it. My daughter's school has a plaque that proudly states their membership of International Schools Association and another one granted by the Ministry of Education in Japan.

In enrollment materials it lists hundreds of Universities and colledges around the world that will accept their diploma, has a list of schools with direct enrollment due to identical programs.

Bangkok Pattana School, for example, has those same credentials and is of similar, albeit a bit higher price, than this school in Japan.

[culicine]

IF you want them to attend school in the west they need an international school. If your looking a a good University in Bangkok then a Bi-lingaul school will be fine as they will be sufficient in English and Thai.

Not necessarily. A few Thai students graduating from the EP I work for go on to Universities in the West every year. Our graduating classes consist of only about 30 students each year, so when 2 or 3 go abroad for university it amounts to 10% of the class. Another 10% go on to proper Thai programs in Thai universities, while 80% go to International Programs in Thai universities.

Thai schools and ur a expat... your doing an injustice to your child.

Not a well-informed comment. At the school I work for, the upper secondary class sizes for academic subjects like science, math, and English are between 8 and 20 students. Western textbooks are used exclusively, and are selected to parallel an education in the West while meeting the advanced standards of the Thai curriculum. A well-chosen bilingual program will rival most international schools in all subjects except English.

My daughter is 14 and I just sent her back to attend high School in the states. She is doing fine and had attended BIS in Phuket. If she had been at the bi-lingial school she would be lost

The school system in the US is all over the board in terms of quality. The UK system is much better. Unless I could get my child into a strong district in the US I wouldn't even consider the option. If I were a UK citizen it would be a more difficult choice. On the other hand, I would strongly recommend a year abroad for socialization purposes.

If she had been at the bi-lingial school she would be lost

Perhaps the bilingual schools in your area, Phuket, are not good. Actually, we have had a couple of teachers come to our school who previously worked in Phuket. Their comments about their experiences in the bilingual schools there are decidedly unfavorable.

I've worked in the same EP for about 7 years and can say the best of my students (at M3 level) are easily as good as the best the West can offer (at least in mathematics). A group of my m3 students went to Australia for a month to study and said how easy the mathematics was. Of course, english will be a different story. So I would say, at least for some subjects, the quality of good EP's should be on par with what is taught in western schools. The content of the books will be similar (we use some from Singapore); the difference would be in the level of teacher training that the teachers have received (very few in my EP have teacher qualifications - the calaries and conditions wouldn' attract qualified teachers). So from year to year, the quality of teaching the students get would be variable. However, I also teach upper mathyom (G 10-12), and I can say that it is nearly impossible to teach both the Thai curriculum (note that even Thai students in Thai programs on average, fgail their o-net and a-net exams) and a western one at the same time. Hover, having had a few graduating classes go through (most of whom go on to International programs), the lack of coverage of some topics hasn't been detrimental to the students (I make sure to cover the most important topics anyway). However, for students wishing to study overseas, it's a different ballgame, where they will have to sit external exams like SAT (I cover that also in M6 classes).

[Ijustwannateach]

private tutoring for Thai and go ahead and send kids to an all-English program

By this, do you mean the "EP" schools mentioned earlier, or an International School?

It's interesting what you also said about learning everything in the two different languages perhaps diluting the actual subjects being learned, i.e. perhaps some of the child's attention and learning will be taken up by focusing on the language they're being taught in rather than the subject at hand. I definitely want my some to be fluent in Thai, but I wouldn't necessarily require that he's taught other non-language related subjects in Thai - my thinking before was that in doing this he'd get more exposure to the two languages and so fluency would come quicker, but not if this is detrimental to the subject itself. So perhaps EP is the way to go...?

Both could be ok, as long as the EP is a good one and/or the International School is a "real" one (ISB, NIST, etc.).

I think it might be time to bring up my "advice to parents" thread about what to look for when shopping around for an EP program or considering placing a child in one. Here's a link.

[dantilley]

Thanks for the useful link IJWT.