Renew Work Permit / Extend Visa - What If Extension Refused ?

[expatman]

My work permit and extension of stay expire on January 17. On this Tuesday I went to immigration with company staff to get an extension, but the extension was not granted (yet) as the company did not provide all required documents. Not sure exactly what, but they all seem to be about company finances. I don't speak (much) Thai, but several times I heard "mai dai, mai dai" and the immigration staff circled and underlined several places on the list of required documents. Later the company staff told me "the company has a problem with the Revenue Department". We're supposed to go back again on Monday, but I'm not sure the problems will be sorted out by then. I know the company has financial problems as salaries have been paid late for the last several months.

Questions :

What exactly does the company have to provide in regards to financial documentation ?

Can I get a temporary extension to allow the company more time to provide necessary docs ?

What if the company cannot provide those documents and the visa extension is refused ?

Can this be considered termination of the contract by the company ? (In which case I would be due a lot of severance pay.)

[ubonjoe]

guide_lines.pdf

My work permit and extension of stay expire on January 17. On this Tuesday I went to immigration with company staff to get an extension, but the extension was not granted (yet) as the company did not provide all required documents. Not sure exactly what, but they all seem to be about company finances. I don't speak (much) Thai, but several times I heard "mai dai, mai dai" and the immigration staff circled and underlined several places on the list of required documents. Later the company staff told me "the company has a problem with the Revenue Department". We're supposed to go back again on Monday, but I'm not sure the problems will be sorted out by then. I know the company has financial problems as salaries have been paid late for the last several months.

Questions :

What exactly does the company have to provide in regards to financial documentation ?

Can I get a temporary extension to allow the company more time to provide necessary docs ?

What if the company cannot provide those documents and the visa extension is refused ?

Can this be considered termination of the contract by the company ? (In which case I would be due a lot of severance pay.)

If they can't meet all the requirements before your extension expires immigration can give you a 30 day stamp while they consider your application.

See this guidline for extensions that is part of latest changes to the police order covering extensions.

guide_lines.pdf

I don't know if it would be considered termination or not.

I think they will get it sorted out. It may be that they were not aware of the new rules and have to get some more documents together.

[expatman]

guide_lines.pdf

I don't know if it would be considered termination or not.

I think they will get it sorted out. It may be that they were not aware of the new rules and have to get some more documents together.

Thanks for the attached file. I hope this is just because it's a new girl handling the paperwork who's not familiar with all the requirements. Last year it only took one visit to immigration.

My fear, however, is that company is not up-to-date in tax payments, and may not have the money to pay.

I wouldn't mind being terminated if I get severance pay, as it would be over a million baht.

[TerryLH]

"I wouldn't mind being terminated if I get severance pay, as it would be over a million baht."

You think they may not be able to pay their taxes, but you feel like they could pay you over a million in severance pay?

Good luck.

[monty]

Basically the company will have to prove they made enough money in the previous year, proven by audited book keeping, tax payments etc.

This they need to prove that they will be able to pay you for the coming year.

Exactly how much the numbers have to be seems to be at the discretion of the immigration officers. Sometimes the revenue of the previous year has to be equal or more then 12 months worth of your salary, sometimes they require that amount to be profit!

If your extension gets refused on that base, doesn't need to mean termination. You can do a visa trip to a Thai embassy/consulate in one of the neighboring countries, where they will issue you a new non immigrant B based on your work permit. When you then re-enter Thailand you'll receive 90 days, and you'll have to bring your WP in sync with your new entry stamp.

There's quite a few legally employed foreigners in that scenario, either their salary is not high enough, or their employers book keeping is not high enough, or non existent in the case of a newly formed company!

[expatman]

Basically the company will have to prove they made enough money in the previous year, proven by audited book keeping, tax payments etc.

This they need to prove that they will be able to pay you for the coming year.

Exactly how much the numbers have to be seems to be at the discretion of the immigration officers. Sometimes the revenue of the previous year has to be equal or more then 12 months worth of your salary, sometimes they require that amount to be profit!

If your extension gets refused on that base, doesn't need to mean termination. You can do a visa trip to a Thai embassy/consulate in one of the neighboring countries, where they will issue you a new non immigrant B based on your work permit. When you then re-enter Thailand you'll receive 90 days, and you'll have to bring your WP in sync with your new entry stamp.

There's quite a few legally employed foreigners in that scenario, either their salary is not high enough, or their employers book keeping is not high enough, or non existent in the case of a newly formed company!

Monty, here's the current status :

Visa has now been extended until Feb 11 to allow processing of application for work permit renewal.

Application for work permit renewal was submitted, but company financial statements show a loss for 2008.

The work permit was extended temporarily until Feb 11 and the Labour Department requested that I file a tax return for 2008 and present a copy of the tax return with the original receipt (yellow paper, looks like cash-register receipt) .

However, I have to wait a while to get all my receipts for deductions, and also the with-holding tax statement which the company has not issued yet (although supposedly they have paid the outstanding amount due to Revenue Dept.)

The request for additional documentation re income taxes suggest I MAY get an work permit extension for the the rest of the year (and then visa extension), but I'm not sure of this (company staff also not sure), so I'm still trying to consider all my options.

Which brings me to the part of your post I don't understand, your suggestion I could leave Thailand and get a new visa "based on the work permit".

Isn't the work permit validity dependent on visa validity (and vice versa) ?

If I leave without a re-entry permit doesn't the work permit automatically expire ?

Then I would have to reapply for the work permit from scratch, and what is the likelihood of new work permit being granted given company financial status ?

Please clarify your remarks.

[monty]

There's actually two dates important in a work permit.

The first is called "work period", found on the bottom of page 5, and this will usually state 1 year, counting from the day of issue.

Then you have the validity, which initially can be found on page 7, where the validity will expire on the same day you are allowed to remain in Thailand (the date either on your entry stamp, or your extension of stay stamp).

So you can have a 1 year work permit but only valid for 90 days as you are only allowed for 90 days in Thailand.

After 90 days you can do a visa run, come back, go to labor department and re-synchronize the validity with your new entry stamp which will then be noted on page 8 and onwards. You have a 7 day window to do all this, 7 days after the validity expires, you will lose the WP altogether.

Or you can get an extension from immigration, where the labor department will then bring the validity inline with that extension.

Within the initial 1 year period these extensions are virtually hassle free, after 1 year they will want to re-evaluate, based on company performance, tax payments etc. If your company can convince the labor department that you are absolutely needed to bring the company back into the black, you'll have a good chance to get the WP extension, but again, validity will only be until the day you are allowed into Thailand!

Separately from this you have the visa extension. Most probably immigration will refuse to give you an extension based on the fact the company made a loss the previous year and as such is unlikely to be able to pay you. Unless the company can prove some injection of fresh cash, or very healthy cash balances (unlikely when they made a loss).

If they refuse the extension, you can still remain working but will have to do the visa runs as noted above, and every time re-sync the WP with your new entry stamps.

Hope this clears things a bit up!

[expatman]

There's actually two dates important in a work permit.

The first is called "work period", found on the bottom of page 5, and this will usually state 1 year, counting from the day of issue.

Then you have the validity, which initially can be found on page 7, where the validity will expire on the same day you are allowed to remain in Thailand (the date either on your entry stamp, or your extension of stay stamp).

So you can have a 1 year work permit but only valid for 90 days as you are only allowed for 90 days in Thailand.

After 90 days you can do a visa run, come back, go to labor department and re-synchronize the validity with your new entry stamp which will then be noted on page 8 and onwards. You have a 7 day window to do all this, 7 days after the validity expires, you will lose the WP altogether.

Or you can get an extension from immigration, where the labor department will then bring the validity inline with that extension.

Within the initial 1 year period these extensions are virtually hassle free, after 1 year they will want to re-evaluate, based on company performance, tax payments etc. If your company can convince the labor department that you are absolutely needed to bring the company back into the black, you'll have a good chance to get the WP extension, but again, validity will only be until the day you are allowed into Thailand!

Separately from this you have the visa extension. Most probably immigration will refuse to give you an extension based on the fact the company made a loss the previous year and as such is unlikely to be able to pay you. Unless the company can prove some injection of fresh cash, or very healthy cash balances (unlikely when they made a loss).

If they refuse the extension, you can still remain working but will have to do the visa runs as noted above, and every time re-sync the WP with your new entry stamps.

Hope this clears things a bit up!

Thanks for the clarification.

Just a few minutes ago a messenger from the company brought a new document for me to sign (I work off-site in the client's office). This one essentially said that if my job description details change the work permit will be terminated and I agree to immediately leave Thailand. I don't remember signing anything like that before, so it appears the company may be trying to convince the Labour Department that my position is critical. In fact it probably is, as the project I supervise makes money for the company, and also the client is the Thai military. I'm considering approaching the client myself to see if they can add a supporting letter, but not sure if there's enough time to go through all the bureaucracy to do this.

So hopefully the Labour Department will renew, but the Immigration Department may be an insurmountable obstacle, and I should get prepared to exit and get a new visa. If Immigration refuses to extend for rest of year can I still get a 7-day extension to make travel arrangements, or do I need to make a dash for the border ?

Where's the best place in SE Asia to apply for a one-year multiple-entry non-immigrant B visa and what documentation will I need besides the work permit and a letter of request from the company ?

[Lite Beer]

Where's the best place in SE Asia to apply for a one-year multiple-entry non-immigrant B visa and what documentation will I need besides the work permit and a letter of request from the company ?

It would apear to be KL. Have a look here.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Latest-Repor...19#entry1986219