Digital Slr

[OriginalPoster]

Not that I slag Nikon for there cameras but even the cheapest Canon can use any of there lenses in autofocus which is not true with Nikon,

That's because Canon only has AF cameras and lenses in the current line up but Nikon still makes and sells manual focus camera and lenses as well as AF lineups. I have some of the best Canon's EF lenses which I love, but I must say Nikon makes lenses (and cameras) as good as Canon, if not better.

If I'm not mistaken, some of the current Nikon bodies can only autofocus with "G" lenses, which effectively rules out the use of most Nikon AF lenses that are more than a few years old. Higher end Nikon's such s the D300, D700, and D3 don't have that limitation though.

FWIW, the now-discontinued D200 can presently be bought very cheaply on the used market and it's a killer camera provided that you're in the habit of shooting at lower ISO's. It can autofocus with any of the legacy AF lenses, and it can manual focus and automatically meter with almost any of the older AI and AIS lenses. Pair it with any of the classic Nikon primes, or any of the new-tech f2.8 zooms, and you'll like the results a lot.

Edited January 25, 2009 by OriginalPoster

[Bard]

That is true, If you buy the cheaper Nikon bodies they will only autofocus with lenses which has DX or whatever on them, throws off Sigma, Tokina and other 3 parties as well plus a lot of there current lenses such as every full frame lens Nikon make. That is why I went to Canon solely due to that, just made me see red. I like Nikon still prefer there flashes but that stupid idea was not very clever, and from moving to Canon I love them brilliant cameras and lenses plus you can rest assured all autofocus lenses with Canon mount will work with the cheapest body, so you can go cheap on body and buy great lenses and upgrade body when your lens collection is complete, then keep the old body as spare. I bought my old man a 50 f/1.4 Nikon and guess what he had to manual focus the thing, was not supported with his body, that is utterly unacceptable in my humble opinion.

Cheers Bard

[baahjun]

Nikon bodies are compatible with older lenses, on some of them autofocus doesn't work.

OP seems to want to buy a whole new kit so that is not an issue.

(if you ask me when you work on a shallow DOF like 1.4 you would want to focus manually anyway)

The negative about canon is that accesories like IR remote are extremely expensive.

anyway,you can find the canon/nikon debate everywhere on the interweb, I'd say they both make pretty decent cameras and lenses, the real difference lies with the person using it.

[OriginalPoster]

Nikon bodies are compatible with older lenses, on some of them autofocus doesn't work.

It's more that just an auto-focussing (or lack thereof) issue. Nikon's so-called "non-CPU" AI and AIS manual focus lenses will meter properly in aperature preferred mode on higher-end bodies such as D200, D300, D700, D2, D3 but will not on a number of the lower end Nikon bodies. A fortunate side effect of that though is that those lenses tend to sell extaordinarily cheaply on eBay, making them a tempting thing to buy (whether you need them or not) if you have one of the aforementioned bodies. For instance, I picked up a seemingly well cared for copy of the 105mm f2.5 AI lens for about US$75 and the quality of the images that is simply stellar on both my old D200 and present D700.

[Bard]

Nikon bodies are compatible with older lenses, on some of them autofocus doesn't work.

OP seems to want to buy a whole new kit so that is not an issue.

(if you ask me when you work on a shallow DOF like 1.4 you would want to focus manually anyway)

The negative about canon is that accesories like IR remote are extremely expensive.

anyway,you can find the canon/nikon debate everywhere on the interweb, I'd say they both make pretty decent cameras and lenses, the real difference lies with the person using it.

Huh IR remote is what 800 baht??? The most interesting thing with 1.4 is not shallow DOF but very bright viewfinder with extremely accurate and fast autofocus... only it does not work with his camera. Another thing is that you can take photo in very dim light again IF the autofocus would work it would be a breeze, for 1.4 shots I do not find much use for that unless it's dim light way to shallow DOF. Anyway I was not trying to start a Nikon/Canon debate at all just sharing my personal view why I changed to Canon. I think both makes great systems, also Olympus, Pentax and many more do as well however in Thailand the big two is most used and easiest to get stuff for and services done with.

[baahjun]

Huh IR remote is what 800 baht???

find me one for a 40d for 800 baht ......

[OriginalPoster]

I was not trying to start a Nikon/Canon debate at all just sharing my personal view why I changed to Canon. I think both makes great systems, also Olympus, Pentax and many more do as well however in

I'm not arguing in favour of Canon and against Nikon either, in fact I use only Nikon and know almost nothing about Canon. Rather there was misinformation about Nikon lens compatibility presented earlier in this thread and I tried to correct it. I'm pointing out the issues with non-G lenses and AI/AIS lenses on the lower end bodies more because it might lead to disappointment if someone had been assuming those leses would work fully and they bought one of the budget Nikon DSLR's and because for some people it might be a selling point for one of the higher end Nikon bodies that they could use any of the dirt cheap AI/AIS lenses if they want to. I have no idea whether Canon is more flexible or less flexible in that regard. The OP said that he already has older 20 - 55 - 135 - 300 and 500 lenses for a Nikon FM2, if that's the case, picking one of the Nikon bodies that is capable of working properly with those older (probably AI or AIS) lenses might be an advantage even if he intends to buy a brend new AF zoom lenses to go with his new DSLR.

FWIW, here's a pretty good chart showing which types of Nikon lenses are compatible with which Nikon bodies: http://www.nikonians.org/nikon/slr-lens.html

Edited January 30, 2009 by OriginalPoster

[bruceboy]

Personally a Nikon 90 is the only way to go.

[Goshawk]

Personally a Nikon 90 is the only way to go.

precisely.. for the amount the OP wants to spend (+ a little bit more), i totally agree..

It's a gr8 dSLR

[Nordlys]

I have no idea whether Canon is more flexible or less flexible in that regard.

There's absolutely no compatibility between legacy MF lenses built for FD mount (adopted on film SLRs from Nikon FM and FM2 era) and present day EOS system that adopted EF mount for AF lenses. All Canon EOS SLRs would take EF lenses be it film or digital, with the exception of EF-S lenses designed speficially for APS-C size sensors (all EOS dSLRs other than 1D, 1Ds and 5D series). All EOS dSLRs that incorporates APS-C size sensors are compatible with all EF lenses both EF and EF-S while higher end 1D, 1Ds and 5D series with EF lenses only. I understand AF-DX lenses can be used for D700 and D3 series too but that's not the case for Canon as depth of focus of EF-S lenses would interferes with large mirrors on full-size sensor and APS-H size sensor cameras like 1D, 1Ds and 5D.

[Bard]

Huh IR remote is what 800 baht???

find me one for a 40d for 800 baht ......

PM me and I shall bring you one when I come back to Thailand

[astral]

The Canon EOS mount is well established, 20 years or more now.....................

[Bard]

I have no idea whether Canon is more flexible or less flexible in that regard.

There's absolutely no compatibility between legacy MF lenses built for FD mount (adopted on film SLRs from Nikon FM and FM2 era) and present day EOS system that adopted EF mount for AF lenses. All Canon EOS SLRs would take EF lenses be it film or digital, with the exception of EF-S lenses designed speficially for APS-C size sensors (all EOS dSLRs other than 1D, 1Ds and 5D series). All EOS dSLRs that incorporates APS-C size sensors are compatible with all EF lenses both EF and EF-S while higher end 1D, 1Ds and 5D series with EF lenses only. I understand AF-DX lenses can be used for D700 and D3 series too but that's not the case for Canon as depth of focus of EF-S lenses would interferes with large mirrors on full-size sensor and APS-H size sensor cameras like 1D, 1Ds and 5D.

Cropped sensor Nikon lenses cannot be used on full frame Nikon as well, because of short back focusing. Try and you will see, they might fit but man you get horrid vignetting and useless photos.

The new crop lenses is not a problem as you buy them for your "new" camera and if you like the bonus of longer reach from crop sensor versus benefit of wider full frame, you buy them and stick with them which is not a problem. The problem is for people who has older autofocus lenses from there film camera and want to try out digital, and find them to not work properly. That is a problem, ohh oups btw you have to buy an expensive model because you already bought lenses, we want you to spend more... By an much more expensive body and/or new lenses.

[Nordlys]

Cropped sensor Nikon lenses cannot be used on full frame Nikon as well, because of short back focusing. Try and you will see, they might fit but man you get horrid vignetting and useless photos.

From what I read in reviews (I'm not posting a link here as it's not in English) quite a few DX lenses can be used with FX format D3 and D700 (most likely D3x too) and not only you can change the format size with those models but they even have a feature that automatically changes the format to suit the size of the image circle, depending on what lens you attach to the camera body (automatic crop down to 5.1 million pixels). Unique feature but I don't really see what the point is unless you've just upgraded your camera body from DX to FX but ran out of the money to buy a new lens and forced to using existing DX lens.

Edited February 2, 2009 by Nordlys

[OriginalPoster]

I have no idea whether Canon is more flexible or less flexible in that regard.

There's absolutely no compatibility between legacy MF lenses built for FD mount (adopted on film SLRs from Nikon FM and FM2 era) and present day EOS system that adopted EF mount for AF lenses. All Canon EOS SLRs would take EF lenses be it film or digital, with the exception of EF-S lenses designed speficially for APS-C size sensors (all EOS dSLRs other than 1D, 1Ds and 5D series). All EOS dSLRs that incorporates APS-C size sensors are compatible with all EF lenses both EF and EF-S while higher end 1D, 1Ds and 5D series with EF lenses only. I understand AF-DX lenses can be used for D700 and D3 series too but that's not the case for Canon as depth of focus of EF-S lenses would interferes with large mirrors on full-size sensor and APS-H size sensor cameras like 1D, 1Ds and 5D.

Cropped sensor Nikon lenses cannot be used on full frame Nikon as well, because of short back focusing. Try and you will see, they might fit but man you get horrid vignetting and useless photos.

Not sure what short back focusing is, but with most DX lenses the vignetting doesn't get to be obvious until about 2/3 of the way through the zoom range when you it on a camera that has an FX sensor or on an old film camera. And as mentioned by the poster above, the D700 and D3 have an autocrop mode that you can enable that will replicate the FOV of of DX camera by cropping using only about 5 MP from the center of the sensor. It's not something that you would want to do except in a pinch (since it causes you to cut the resolution of your 12 MP camera down to 5 MP) but it does work and it does prevent vignetting.

Edited February 2, 2009 by OriginalPoster

[Bard]

I know that "The D3 has an optional automatic DX crop capability that can be selected from the Shooting Menu. With this feature on, if a DX lens that has a small image circle for DX-sensor Nikon DSLRs is mounted, the D3 will automatically switch to the DX format (16x24mm) at 5MP instead of 12."

However what is the point buying an expensive D3 and use it as a 5 mp crop camera?

All DX and EFS lenses will not be a good solution on full frame period, now the DX and EFS is not THE problem as you buy them to your new camera, and IF you suspect you will go full frame just buy the G or EF lenses. The problem I tried to bring across is the guy/gal who own a autofocus film camera and want to go digital, a bit weary they buy a cheap model and keep the film to make sure this is it. When all there lenses do not autofocus I guess they will figure out this is not it. That is what I got upset about, if you decide to go crop and don't see the need for full frame (as me) you can buy any lens vs DX lens only (for full functionality on all bodies) for me it was a big deal, for others maybe not.

Cheers Bard

[OriginalPoster]

I know that "The D3 has an optional automatic DX crop capability that can be selected from the Shooting Menu. With this feature on, if a DX lens that has a small image circle for DX-sensor Nikon DSLRs is mounted, the D3 will automatically switch to the DX format (16x24mm) at 5MP instead of 12."

However what is the point buying an expensive D3 and use it as a 5 mp crop camera?

All DX and EFS lenses will not be a good solution on full frame period, now the DX and EFS is not THE problem as you buy them to your new camera, and IF you suspect you will go full frame just buy the G or EF lenses. The problem I tried to bring across is the guy/gal who own a autofocus film camera and want to go digital, a bit weary they buy a cheap model and keep the film to make sure this is it. When all there lenses do not autofocus I guess they will figure out this is not it. That is what I got upset about, if you decide to go crop and don't see the need for full frame (as me) you can buy any lens vs DX lens only (for full functionality on all bodies) for me it was a big deal, for others maybe not.

Cheers Bard

To me it seems like Nikon's decision to obsolete non-AFS lenses on bodies less than the D200/D300/D700 (in the sense that they won't autofocus on DSLR's below that level) was an arrogant move, though it doesn't seem to be hurting their sales. It appears to be something that they did for marketing reasons with eyes wide open as opposed to something that they did out of technical necessity. However, the D200/D300/D700 and higher level cameras are just grand with almost any lens produced since Nikon has produced since the AI series of lenses.

[astral]

Cropped sensor Nikon lenses cannot be used on full frame Nikon as well, because of short back focusing.

Try and you will see, they might fit but man you get horrid vignetting and useless photos.

The same applies on Canon.

They even changed the mount a little to make sure the EF-S lenses will not fit on a standard body.

Attempting to do so can do serious damage to the mirror.

Standard EF lenses on the cropped bodies are fine.

[Nordlys]

They even changed the mount a little to make sure the EF-S lenses will not fit on a standard body.

Really? If they changed the mount how can the standard EF lenses be attached to cropped sensor bodies?

[astral]

They even changed the mount a little to make sure the EF-S lenses will not fit on a standard body.

Really? If they changed the mount how can the standard EF lenses be attached to cropped sensor bodies?

These Japanese are clever.

The new mount, on the cropped bodies, will take EF and EF-S lenses.

Just line up the red spot for EF and the white spot for EF-S, when inserting the lens.

An EF-S lens will not mount on a full size body.

[Nordlys]

They even changed the mount a little to make sure the EF-S lenses will not fit on a standard body.

Really? If they changed the mount how can the standard EF lenses be attached to cropped sensor bodies?

These Japanese are clever.

The new mount, on the cropped bodies, will take EF and EF-S lenses.

Just line up the red spot for EF and the white spot for EF-S, when inserting the lens.

An EF-S lens will not mount on a full size body.

I don't have an EF-S lens as I only have full size body. But from what I heard you can actually mount it on full size too. You just can't shoot it with EF-S because the short depth of focus of EF-S lens makes the large mirror in full size body interfere with the back end of the lens when releasing shutter.

[astral]

The EF-S lens will not mount on the full size body.

Here is a site showing how to modify the EF-S 18-55 lens

to fit a full body.

http://members.cox.net/byteseller/EFS-WEB/EFS-WEB.html

Not for the faint hearted.

[Nordlys]

The EF-S lens will not mount on the full size body.

Here is a site showing how to modify the EF-S 18-55 lens

to fit a full body.

http://members.cox.net/byteseller/EFS-WEB/EFS-WEB.html

Not for the faint hearted.

OK, I still don't really get how it is that EF-S lenses are designed not to fit on full-size body when full-size and cropped sensor bodies share the same mount but I guess I was wrong. But why would anyone wants to do the modification like in that link?

[vika09]

Hi, I don't wish to hijack this thread.

But I have been seeing people saying that the Nikon D90 is ~33K baht, fotofile says it's ~49K.

I am assuming you guys are referring to the full kit (AF-S DX VR 18-105 f/3.5-5.6G ED).

Where might find this at the quoted price you guys are referring to?

Thanks.