Swedish Couple Sentenced To 15 Month In Jail.

[Dap]

Anyone who shoplifts in Thailand is a total idiot...this is the country of a thousand eyes and no secrets. Everything we do is seen by someone.

Absolutly!

[mrtoad]

Uppgifter från svenska UD visar nu att paret erkänt att man stulit totalt 250 tröjor i samband med ett inbrott. Dessutom figurerar en påstådd misshandel av en engelsk turist. Den sista uppgiften har dock inte gått att få bekräftad.

Translation

According to information from the Swedish UD (foreign office) the couple have confessed to stealing 250 T-shirts (could be sweaters as well) in connection with a break in/burglary. There is also unconfirmed accusations of beating an English tourist. Although this allegation has not been verified (by Swedish UD or Thai police).

Det var den 2 december förra året som det unga paret, 24 och 21 år gamla, greps sedan de stulit klädesplaggen ur en butik i Patong Beach i Thailand.

Translation

The young couple, of 24 and 21, was arrested on the 2. December last year, since they had stolen the clothes (the 250 items) from a shop in Patong Beach, Thailand.

Vid tisdagens rättegång blev domen för de båda 1 år och tre månaders fängelse vardera.

Detta efter det att de skriftligt erkänt sitt brott. Hade man inte gjort det hade paret riskerat att strafftiden fördubblats.

Translation

At Tuesdays trial they where each sentenced to one year and three months in jail.

The sentence was meted out on the strength of written confessions by the defendants.

Without the signed confessions the couple ran the risk of two and a half year jail time, if found guilty.

Någon rättslig assistens fick inte heller paret vid tisdagens rättegång. Anklagelserna lästes upp och därpå följde den hårda domen. Detta utan något annan rättslig prövning eftersom paret erkänt brottet.

Translation

The couple did not have legal council at the trial, so the accusations where read to the judge, who subsequently sentenced the couple. There was no hearing of witnesses or review of evidence, since the couple had already confessed.

Paret har också avsagt sig rätten att få sitt fall prövad i en högre instans.

Translation

The couple have waived their right to appeal to an higher court.

Ulricehamnsparet reste till Thailand i mitten av november och hade planerat att stanna kvar till i början av januari.

Translation

The Ulricehamn couple traveled to Thailand in the middle of November and their plan was to stay until the beginning of January.

Link to the story in Swedish

It might look like they where apprehended after the the fact, and stolen property where found in their possession (from an earlier burglary). The story is not clear on this point. It also seems they went to court without legal representation, and that they signed papers in thai without an interpreter.

Thank you Morty for the clarification in the translation.

[SKORPiO]

I personally agree with the sentence, however bad it is. You shouldn't steal especially if you are a "guest." Just imagine someone stealing in your own house, would you let that person off the hook? Would you accept that parson paying off the policeman 200bht for wrong doing? I sure hope not. I don't feel sorry for them at all.

regards,

[Frankster]

No justice in Thailand ...Those kids don't know how to bribe ,, Thais bribe there way out of crime everyday ... Only very poor THAIS do hard time like that .........

[brahmburgers]

Granted, I don't know for sure whether the woman tried to steal a watch

This is the only part of your story that really matters. You have no idea if this person was innocent, or not, but you are implying that she was because you apparently enjoy stirring the shit. The fact that the thief immediately started throwing thousand baht notes at their accuser tells me that he was right. From everything that I have seen in Thailand, I would be MUCH more inclined to believe the Thai vendor than you or the shoplifter.

From my eyewitness view from directly behind the farang couple, it looked every bit like a scam/shake-down. You can believe who you want, but the vendor was making a fantastically rousing fracas over a $2 plastic watch (that's all he had for sale). A supposedly snatched watch which, by the way, was never displayed/seen by any of the players. I stood right there, a foot away, and watched (and said nothing) while the drama played out.

No justice in Thailand ...Those kids don't know how to bribe ,, Thais bribe there way out of crime everyday ... Only very poor THAIS do hard time like that .........

agree! I would add only poor, unconnected Thais, ...same for farang, except some, like the Swedish couple, don't know or weren't willing to play the game of appeasement that's so necessary in such scenarios. I'd like to hear what the accused have to say.

The Swedish news report excerpt: "The sentence was meted out on the strength of written confessions by the defendants. Without the signed confessions the couple ran the risk of two and a half year jail time, if found guilty. The couple had no legal counsel, and the sentence read out in court." (in Thai probably).

Can we agree the couple were coerced in to entering a guilty plea?!? If threats of a much graver sentence (for putting forth a defense) isn't coercion, what is?

Edited January 19, 2009 by brahmburgers

[mrtoad]

Can we agree the couple were coerced in to entering a guilty plea?!? If threats of a much graver sentence (for putting forth a defense) isn't coercion, what is?

No, as there is no evidence that they were coereced. Your definition of coercion is rather weak anyway, in that this is exactly the same as in the UK. Plead guilty lighter sentence, go to court harsher sentence. So, on that basis the CJS in the UK also coereces people into pleading guilty.

[Ulysses G.]

Can we agree the couple were coerced in to entering a guilty plea?!? If threats of a much graver sentence (for putting forth a defense) isn't coercion, what is?

Only if you believe that offering a lesser sentence for pleading guilty to avoid court costs is "coercion". It is done in courts of law all over the world!

Edited January 19, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[britmaveric]

Sorry if I were innocent regardless of the consequences I am not pleading out. These two thieves got their just desserts - lucky they didnt get two years.

[pattaya1com]

Ulysses G.>> You think they stole 2 t-shirts to finance their, pre-paid, trip?

No, I think that they stole stuff pretty much every day to cut down on costs or trade or re-sell, and I have seen travelers doing this regularly in Chiang Mai and often the shopkeepers can not get the police to get involved until they get a bunch of complaints about the same person. Not many shoplifters get caught the first time that they do it.

There is no positive proof these "somewhat stupid" young people did this to cut down costs or in part to help facilitate there stay here. Others have called them "scum", in that case it puts a majority of Thai's under the same discription. How far could one finance a trip on stolen T-Shirts?

What they failed to realize this is Thailand, Land of the Thai, where foreigners are only tolerated if they bring offerings (cash).

They also failed to realize Thailand does not have an impartial legal system. To witness; I was scammed about 30,000 THB by a Thai "business" contacting Thai police, Tourist police and TAT was an overwhelming "sorry about that", nothing we can do.

http://ucheck.us/futz/wjoy.html

Another would be a local Thai policman, neighbor, kills a husband and wife while drunk driving.

His time in jail - 2 days.

Through all this I have learned an important lesson - "Stay away from T-Shirts".

LOS - Land of Scams and Thai justice, or "something disguised as justice".

Edited January 19, 2009 by pattaya1com

[Ulysses G.]

There is no positive proof these "somewhat stupid" young people did this to cut down costs or in part to help facilitate there stay here. Others have called them "scum", in that case it puts a majority of Thai's under the same discription. How far could one finance a trip on stolen T-Shirts?

Who cares why they were doing it anyway? They were STEALING and probably selling the stuff. It is not brain science.

What do you mean about most Thais are scum? Most Thais do not steal!

Edited January 19, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[RubbaJohnny]

Lucky they were not in Howdy Arabia they would have less digits to fiddle.

If its 15 months for a few euros of T shirts wonder what the punishment for occupying the airports millions of lost flights jobs and Baht will be? he total on cost of 'YELLOW FEVER"

Oh sorry there ll be no loss of face ,the idiots in jail were farangs QED

[Priceless]

Ulysses G.>> You think they stole 2 t-shirts to finance their, pre-paid, trip?

No, I think that they stole stuff pretty much every day to cut down on costs or trade or re-sell, and I have seen travelers doing this regularly in Chiang Mai and often the shopkeepers can not get the police to get involved until they get a bunch of complaints about the same person. Not many shoplifters get caught the first time that they do it.

There is no positive proof these "somewhat stupid" young people did this to cut down costs or in part to help facilitate there stay here. Others have called them "scum", in that case it puts a majority of Thai's under the same discription. How far could one finance a trip on stolen T-Shirts?

What they failed to realize this is Thailand, Land of the Thai, where foreigners are only tolerated if they bring offerings (cash).

They also failed to realize Thailand does not have an impartial legal system. To witness; I was scammed about 30,000 THB by a Thai "business" contacting Thai police, Tourist police and TAT was an overwhelming "sorry about that", nothing we can do.

http://ucheck.us/futz/wjoy.html

Another would be a local Thai policman, neighbor, kills a husband and wife while drunk driving.

His time in jail - 2 days.

Through all this I have learned an important lesson - "Stay away from T-Shirts".

LOS - Land of Scams and Thai justice, or "something disguised as justice".

250 T-shirts @ 100 baht (say) makes 25,000 baht. That would take two young backpackers quite a long way

/ Priceless

[madjbs]

They deserve what they got. No decent person would steal items from street sellers in a foreign country.

No sympathy from this direction.

[brahmburgers]

besides the coerced confession, has anyone (reporting) heard any word from the Swede couple?

Have there been any words from eyewitnesses?

All the discussion on this topic are based on one or two reports from Thai authorities. How reliable is that?

[Ulysses G.]

You have no proof of a "coerced confession", at all. You made it up. Your paranoid hallucinations can not be be admitted as evidence.

Edited January 19, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[brahmburgers]

You have no proof of a "coerced confession", at all. You made it up. Your paranoid hallucinations can not be be admitted as evidence.

From Mirriam-Webster dictionary: COERCE

1 : to restrain or dominate by force

2 : to compel to an act or choice <was coerced into agreeing>

3 : to achieve by force or threat <coerce compliance>

Not all of us have to agree that there was coersion. I find it hard to believe there was no effective coersion of the Swedes - whereas Ulysses may choose to believe otherwise - each to his own.

Name calling is juvenile and shows you're standing on shaky ground. BTW, not you (nor anyone else) has yet addressed my concerns that: Not one word has been heard from the Swedes, and we've not heard one word from an eyewitness. All we've heard is from Thai authorities. If you follow such things in Thailand, you know that Thai authorities often blatantly lie about things (or at least twist the factoids) - to suit their desired agendas.

If it's a matter of picking sides between a grossly disrespectful young farang couple, and a Thai - which one would you guess they would side with?

[madjbs]

If you follow such things in Thailand, you know that Thai authorities often blatantly lie about things (or at least twist the factoids) - to suit their desired agendas.

And so do a lot of farangs (often self proclaimed experts on exactly how Thailand and all it's different systems work etc...(and also often miserable old ***** with miserable attitudes)).

[Priceless]

You have no proof of a "coerced confession", at all. You made it up. Your paranoid hallucinations can not be be admitted as evidence.

From Mirriam-Webster dictionary: COERCE

1 : to restrain or dominate by force

2 : to compel to an act or choice <was coerced into agreeing>

3 : to achieve by force or threat <coerce compliance>

Not all of us have to agree that there was coersion. I find it hard to believe there was no effective coersion of the Swedes - whereas Ulysses may choose to believe otherwise - each to his own.

Name calling is juvenile and shows you're standing on shaky ground. BTW, not you (nor anyone else) has yet addressed my concerns that: Not one word has been heard from the Swedes, and we've not heard one word from an eyewitness. All we've heard is from Thai authorities. If you follow such things in Thailand, you know that Thai authorities often blatantly lie about things (or at least twist the factoids) - to suit their desired agendas.

If it's a matter of picking sides between a grossly disrespectful young farang couple, and a Thai - which one would you guess they would side with?

Quite a few words have been heard from the Swedish Foreign Ministry, though. According to the Ministry, the couple were caught red-handed when they stole the clothes. At that time they both signed a confession where they confessed both to burglary and to stealing 250 pieces of clothing. (Swedish newspaper text: "Enligt UD greps paret på bar gärning i Thailand då de stal kläderna. Vid tillfället skrev båda två under ett erkännande där de sade sig vara skyldiga till både inbrott och till att ha stulit 250 klädesplagg." http://www.bt.se/nyheter/ulricehamn/paret-...agg(1085726).gm )

I feel pretty sure that they have been visited by Swedish consular staff, as this is standard procedure in such cases.

/ Priceless

[mrtoad]

You have no proof of a "coerced confession", at all. You made it up. Your paranoid hallucinations can not be be admitted as evidence.

From Mirriam-Webster dictionary: COERCE

1 : to restrain or dominate by force

2 : to compel to an act or choice <was coerced into agreeing>

3 : to achieve by force or threat <coerce compliance>

Not all of us have to agree that there was coersion. I find it hard to believe there was no effective coersion of the Swedes - whereas Ulysses may choose to believe otherwise - each to his own.

Name calling is juvenile and shows you're standing on shaky ground. BTW, not you (nor anyone else) has yet addressed my concerns that: Not one word has been heard from the Swedes, and we've not heard one word from an eyewitness. All we've heard is from Thai authorities. If you follow such things in Thailand, you know that Thai authorities often blatantly lie about things (or at least twist the factoids) - to suit their desired agendas.

If it's a matter of picking sides between a grossly disrespectful young farang couple, and a Thai - which one would you guess they would side with?

Sometimes you make some sensible comments, but I often wonder why you choose to live here?

Could you explain in greater detail, as you seem to hate Thailand and the people so much.

BTW, the Dictionary definition was nice (although, I only use an Oxford ), but let's be honest most countries have a CJS which gives people whom plead guilty a lighter sentence.

[rott]

The sentence is not that harsh considering it was the policy of the British to deport any Irish man they caught stealing even a loaf of bread to Australia.

Thankfully my great grandmother was a thief or I would not have the life I have now.

UG, I will be over later to browse your selection of LP travel books. I have a clean slate in your place so hopefully I will have it away with a decent copy of your China on a shoestring

PS I am not the guy with a small backpack looking sheepish.

Welcome to another poster with a clear and concise understanding of history, no sign of bias or bigotry, and no diy chip on his shoulder.

[rott]

This takes Thailand back more than 200 years to wooly old England whos genius justice system interred people to the dark world of Australia off the edge of the planet in some minds.....for stealing a loaf of bread or in the case of my ancestors.....a pair of shoes! But on the postiive side for my ancestors....I think they did it deliberately to get a free ticket to the golden land downunder.....smart buggers.

I think your brother is round here somewhere.

[Master Chief]

http://www.ut.se/nyheter/ulricehamn/ulrice...jor(1085791).gm

The couple from Ulricehamn stole 250 T-shirts.

On Tuesday www.ut.se could report that a young couple form Ulricehamn was sentenced to 15 months in jail in Thailand. New information shows that their crime was not only about 2 stolen T/shirts, which first were reported.

Information for the Swedish foreign ministry shows that the couple admitted to have stolen 250 T-shirts during a burglary. They are also involved in an assault on English tourist. The last information hasn’t been confirmed yet.

It was the 2 December last year that the young couple, 24 and 21 years old, were arrested since they stolen the clothes from a shop in Patong Beach, Thailand

Since the arrest the woman has been sharing cell in Phuket with 150 criminal women. The man had a similar situation.

-They have a rough time said Lars Göran Dikander, Swedish photographer who have been in contact with the couple.

Both of them were today sentenced to 15 months in jail. They got a short sentence since they had written a confession. They would have gotten a sentence double that time if they hadn’t written a confession.

- It have been awful, we don’t know what to do, says the mom of the 24-year old man.

- We have been in contact with the foreign ministry but it seems that they can’t do anything in this case.

The couple didn’t receive any legal assistance at the trial. The accusations were read then the came verdict. The couple did´t have any legal assistance since they confessed the crime. They were sentenced for stealing two T-shirts, the accusation of stealing a bag showed to be false.

The couple has also renounced their right to have their case tried in a higher court.

-To have the case tried in a higher court may take up to a year and may result in a longer sentence, explains Lars-Göran Dikander.

The 21-year old woman claimed that she didn’t know that her boyfriend stole the shirts and claims to be innocent.

- It was the worst moment in my life when the handcuffs were locked, said the woman.

-The situation here at home is chaotic, says the mother of the 24-year old man. We feel completely helpless. We have been in touch with the (Swedish) foreign ministry several times this week and we just heard the verdict. It feels totally unreal, says the mother.

-All we can do is to wait and let situation get clearer. Then we will fly to Thailand as soon as possible so we can have direct contact with our son. So far the only contact we had is by mail. We haven’t any contact by phone.

The couple traveled to Thailand in the middle of November and had planed to stay there until the beginning of January.

For the family!

The only thing the family can do to help out is to supply them with extra food, toothbrush, shaving tools, menstruation articles, mosquito repellent and other hygien articles.

Sleeping mattres (small foldable) is needed as they sleep directly on the floor, supply new on regular basis (stolen, bedbugs)

Jail mates will use their stuff as much as they like, does not matter how strong or fast you are, they are so many more.

Do not hunger strike, the jail management does not care.

Take care of them well,

MC

Edited January 20, 2009 by Master Chief

[grantbkk]

I normally find myself grounded in the hang 'em high majority on Thai Visa. In this case the punishment does not fit the crime. There is no excuse for theft but perhaps time served and being blacklisted would be a strong deterrent to the future thieves in waiting. Of course there has to be more to the this story. Many of us are just plain fascinated by how thinking people can dig such a large hole for themselves, hop in and shoot one or more of their feet.

[samgrowth]

Jail mates will use their stuff as much as they like, does not matter how strong or fast you are, they are so many more.

As the men are lock up without access women (paid or unpaid), the natural process would turn them to go for their own sex. This happens all the time in Thai prison (and prison in some other countries) as the men are lock up in groups. Some of them like "ron kon plak" (try something different). When there is so many more of them, resistant may only excit them. To protect white men ass, it is better to lock them up separate. Any accidental acts (consent or not) will create an even greater CNN/BBC headlines.

[needforspeed2]

These two must have really p*ssed of the wrong person/people.

more like these 2 are too desperate. wonder what brand name they were stealing

[samgrowth]

These two must have really p*ssed of the wrong person/people.

more like these 2 are too desperate. wonder what brand name they were stealing

I hope it is nothing yellow. That could potentially add 15 years to their stay in LOS.

[TAWP]

You have no proof of a "coerced confession", at all. You made it up. Your paranoid hallucinations can not be be admitted as evidence.

From Mirriam-Webster dictionary: COERCE

1 : to restrain or dominate by force

2 : to compel to an act or choice <was coerced into agreeing>

3 : to achieve by force or threat <coerce compliance>

Not all of us have to agree that there was coersion. I find it hard to believe there was no effective coersion of the Swedes - whereas Ulysses may choose to believe otherwise - each to his own.

Name calling is juvenile and shows you're standing on shaky ground. BTW, not you (nor anyone else) has yet addressed my concerns that: Not one word has been heard from the Swedes, and we've not heard one word from an eyewitness. All we've heard is from Thai authorities. If you follow such things in Thailand, you know that Thai authorities often blatantly lie about things (or at least twist the factoids) - to suit their desired agendas.

If it's a matter of picking sides between a grossly disrespectful young farang couple, and a Thai - which one would you guess they would side with?

Quite a few words have been heard from the Swedish Foreign Ministry, though. According to the Ministry, the couple were caught red-handed when they stole the clothes. At that time they both signed a confession where they confessed both to burglary and to stealing 250 pieces of clothing. (Swedish newspaper text: "Enligt UD greps paret på bar gärning i Thailand då de stal kläderna. Vid tillfället skrev båda två under ett erkännande där de sade sig vara skyldiga till både inbrott och till att ha stulit 250 klädesplagg." http://www.bt.se/nyheter/ulricehamn/paret-...agg(1085726).gm )

I feel pretty sure that they have been visited by Swedish consular staff, as this is standard procedure in such cases.

/ Priceless

Well, no, what you have is ONE journalist claiming that the UD (Foreign Affairs Dept) said those things, so it is again a third hand report (Thai police -> UD (FAD) -> Journalist). And to my knowledge the UDs position is generally to not give out detailed information of cases. Only support counseling and basic support for the family and the ones arrested/jailed. Lawyers usually handle the PR bit...

Another note is that BT is a very small local paper.

[Priceless]

Quite a few words have been heard from the Swedish Foreign Ministry, though. According to the Ministry, the couple were caught red-handed when they stole the clothes. At that time they both signed a confession where they confessed both to burglary and to stealing 250 pieces of clothing. (Swedish newspaper text: "Enligt UD greps paret på bar gärning i Thailand då de stal kläderna. Vid tillfället skrev båda två under ett erkännande där de sade sig vara skyldiga till både inbrott och till att ha stulit 250 klädesplagg." http://www.bt.se/nyheter/ulricehamn/paret-...agg(1085726).gm )

I feel pretty sure that they have been visited by Swedish consular staff, as this is standard procedure in such cases.

/ Priceless

Well, no, what you have is ONE journalist claiming that the UD (Foreign Affairs Dept) said those things, so it is again a third hand report (Thai police -> UD (FAD) -> Journalist). And to my knowledge the UDs position is generally to not give out detailed information of cases. Only support counseling and basic support for the family and the ones arrested/jailed. Lawyers usually handle the PR bit...

Another note is that BT is a very small local paper.

OK, OK, OK...

Another quote, this time from Sweden's second largest 'quality' newspaper (Svenska Dagbladet):

"[...]Enligt utrikesdepartementet har personal från det svenska konsulatet i Phuket varit och besökt dem i häktet.

Först dömdes de till två och ett halvt års fängelse men straffet sänktes sedan de erkänt brottet och givit upp rätten att överklaga sina straff.[...]"

"According to the Foreign Ministry staff from the Swedish consulate in Phuket have visited them in the prison.

They were first sentenced to two and a half years prison but the sentence was reduced after they confessed and gave up their right to appeal their sentences." (My translation)

Yet another quote, this time from Sweden's largest circulation daily Aftonbladet:

"[...]De har erkänt och fick sitt brott halverat tack vare det, säger Amelie Heimsjö, UD:s presstjänst.[...]Vi kan bekräfta att det rör sig om två svenskar i 20 till 25-årsåldern. Domen blev två år och sex månader vardera. Eftersom de erkände brottet så halverades straffet, säger Amelie Heimsjö.[...]"

"They have confessed and had the crime (should be 'sentence') halved thanks to that, says Amelie Heimsjö, Foreign Ministry's Press Service.[...]We can confirm that it concerns two Swedes, 20-25 years old. The sentence was two and a half years each. Since they confessed the crime the sentence was reduced by half, says Amelie Heimsjö." (My translation again)

So now the information comes from the Prisoners -> Foreign Ministry -> Journalist. If you want it anymore "from the horse's mouth", I'll think you'll have to to visit them in their respective Phuket prisons. I guess you're not that familiar with how the Swedish Foreign Ministry works...

/ Priceless

[Priceless]

Just one more quote, this time from Swedish Radio (Sveriges Radio), the Swedish 'equivalent' of e.g. BBC, i.e. the public service radio company:

"Ulricehamnare dömda i Thailand

[...]UD.s generalkonsulat har varit i kontakt med paret och hjälpt dem att kontakta advokat.

De två är tidigare dömda i Sverige för olika brott. Den 24-årige mannen för bla narkotikabrott och misshandel."

"People from Ulricehamn sentenced in Thailand

[...]The Foreign Ministry's Consulate General have been in contact with the couple and helped them contact a lawyer.

The two have previously been sentenced in Sweden for various crimes. The 24 year old man among other things for drug related crimes and assault and battery." (My translation)

Maybe not quite as innocent as some posters would like to imply

/ Priceless

[TAWP]

Yet another quote, this time from Sweden's largest circulation daily Aftonbladet:

"[...]De har erkänt och fick sitt brott halverat tack vare det, säger Amelie Heimsjö, UD:s presstjänst.[...]Vi kan bekräfta att det rör sig om två svenskar i 20 till 25-årsåldern. Domen blev två år och sex månader vardera. Eftersom de erkände brottet så halverades straffet, säger Amelie Heimsjö.[...]"

"They have confessed and had the crime (should be 'sentence') halved thanks to that, says Amelie Heimsjö, Foreign Ministry's Press Service.[...]We can confirm that it concerns two Swedes, 20-25 years old. The sentence was two and a half years each. Since they confessed the crime the sentence was reduced by half, says Amelie Heimsjö." (My translation again)

So now the information comes from the Prisoners -> Foreign Ministry -> Journalist. If you want it anymore "from the horse's mouth", I'll think you'll have to to visit them in their respective Phuket prisons. I guess you're not that familiar with how the Swedish Foreign Ministry works...

/ Priceless

Cute, but you failed to grasp the point I suspect.

The fact we are missing is not the length of the penalty, the fact that they confessed for promised leniency or that they got it. We already know this.

What we lack[ed] was details about 1) the exact charges as brought forth to them 2) the exact crime they confessed to [including the value amount of the merchandise].

If you are able to find them, them please give it.

And yes I know how SFM works, due to family and past work. But thanks anyway.