Uk Debt Chasing Me

[dogslife]

I have a worrying question which i hope someone can help clarify for me-

I have a long outstanding debt to a UK Bank, not big, but enough. The debt collecting agency got my number here and has now said that if i don't pay it will be passed to the courts in UK to get a court order to approach immigration here and request the cancellation of any visas i have to stay in Thailand. I work here on a non B. Is this really possible ? Needless to say, I am very worried about this!

[Slip]

Oh my, you're in for a fun ride here with this question.

I can't think that the UK courts would request someone's visa to be canceled over an outstanding debt or that Thai immigration would listen even if they did.

Sounds like cobblers to me.

[Jimjim]

Wow, never heard of that happening. For debt alone? Never heard of it for Thailand to worry about a foreigners's debt in another country.

[Geekfreaklover]

Can't see why a debt collection agency wouldn't be able to approach a court in UK if the debt was a large amount. Not sure about Thai immigration being interested in a overseas civil offence.

Comes down to how much the debt is, and how much it will cost the collection agency to try and recover it. Usually the latter costs more than the former and the agency will not pursue the issue.

If living here why not just declare yourself bankrupt in the UK?

[Mario2008]

They are just trying to scare you. Cancellation of a visa is a whole process and not for this kind of cases.

What they can do at most is get a UK court order to pay and ask a Thai judge to execute it in Thailand.

[Slip]

Can't see why a debt collection agency wouldn't be able to approach a court in UK if the debt was a large amount. Not sure about Thai immigration being interested in a overseas civil offence.

Comes down to how much the debt is, and how much it will cost the collection agency to try and recover it. Usually the latter costs more than the former and the agency will not pursue the issue.

If living here why not just declare yourself bankrupt in the UK?

No problem with the agency going to a court, but I don't think the court would make any approach to the Thai authorities.

[InterestedObserver]

I have a worrying question which i hope someone can help clarify for me-

I have a long outstanding debt to a UK Bank, not big, but enough. The debt collecting agency got my number here and has now said that if i don't pay it will be passed to the courts in UK to get a court order to approach immigration here and request the cancellation of any visas i have to stay in Thailand. I work here on a non B. Is this really possible ? Needless to say, I am very worried about this!

Outstanding debt is usually a civil court matter. Criminal court convictions are what gets everyone's attention over at immigration.

[H2oDunc]

I would say it is a dodgy debt recovery agency, and there are many now in the UK, that use less than ethical standards in recovering the debt. Someone from the UK has obviously given them your Thai number and they are trying the immigration scare tactic to get some cash. The fact the said any visa you may have means they do not know what, if any, visa you have. I would personally keep them on the phone as long as you cam to run up their bill and call their bluff. I had an agency trying to recover money for a vodophone mobile bill when I have never had a Vodophone mobile ever! It cost them a fortune to call me here to threaten to do this that or the other. They eventually gave up

Declare yourself bankrupt in the UK and problem solved

[PattayaParent]

Agree with the others that it's most unlikely that they could do that and are just trying to scare you.

BUT they might be able to get a court order so that when it comes time for you to renew your passport the Embassy will refuse and you will have to return to the UK. It's happened to a couple of US mates of mine over unpaid child support.

Mind, a UK mate that did a runner with a couple of hundred grand and had the law looking for him has never had any problems getting a new passport.

[joskydive]

Agree with the other posters. There's also a time limit on certain debts too, like credit cards, I think it's 3 years they can chase you and after that there's nothing they can do.

I don't know what the time limit is on a Bank Debt though, but normally they only get the debt collectors in when it's getting to the end of the time limit and all other resources have been used up.

[OxfordWill]

it costs them next to zero to call thailand, dont waste your time wasting their time on the phone. it used to be the case, but no longer. Just try to pay it back at a rate u can afford.

Edited January 14, 2009 by OxfordWill

[dbrenn]

Agree with the other posters. There's also a time limit on certain debts too, like credit cards, I think it's 3 years they can chase you and after that there's nothing they can do.

I don't know what the time limit is on a Bank Debt though, but normally they only get the debt collectors in when it's getting to the end of the time limit and all other resources have been used up.

UK debts become 'staute barred', i.e., the creditor can no longer pursue the debtor if there has been no communication between the creditor and debtor in which the debtor has acknowledged the debt for more than six years. More info at the Office of Fair Trading website , and this document defines how debt collection agencies are allowed to operate:

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_...edit/oft664.pdf

And here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/

Default on consumer debt is a civil matter arising from breach of contract, and is not a criminal offence. A UK debt collection agency has no leverage whatsoever with a foreign immigration agency, and they are in breach of the guidelines set out by the Office of Fair Trading by telling you that they have powers which actually they do not.

Child support is a completely different issue, and in the US non payment of child support can indeed result is revocation of a passport.

[Alwaysright]

I have a worrying question which i hope someone can help clarify for me-

I have a long outstanding debt to a UK Bank, not big, but enough. The debt collecting agency got my number here and has now said that if i don't pay it will be passed to the courts in UK to get a court order to approach immigration here and request the cancellation of any visas i have to stay in Thailand. I work here on a non B. Is this really possible ? Needless to say, I am very worried about this!

Outstanding debt is usually a civil court matter. Criminal court convictions are what gets everyone's attention over at immigration.

I know a lot of ex-pats that would have to start worrying, especially if they start collecting over due child support.

[dogslife]

Thanks to all of you for your excellent comments and advice.

To give a little more detail - the debt is actually an overdraft which i ran up about 3 years ago of around 6,000 pounds. I was in a real fix at the time and it was the only way to survive.....I haven't been ordinarilly resident in UK for around 10 years now, if that has any relevance. I am not condone the debt, just can pay it!

once again many thanks everyone.

[Lite Beer]

Off topic posts deleted. The op asked for advise regarding his Thailand Immigration Status not his situation with UK banks.

[MacWalen]

you will be just fine here, no way they can get you, sleep tight

[britmaveric]

Well they could sell the debt to a thai credit recovery agent.

[taxexile]

Well they could sell the debt to a thai credit recovery agent.

now you're talking !!!

those guys wont take no for an answer !!

[pothai]

The Child Support Agency cant collect money from you in Thailand, so no small time debt agency will have a chance...tell them go *** themselves.

[Kharzi]

There is no such thing as " UK wide " jurisdiction for settling debt collection. Assuming your debt was incurred with a bank in England the County Court's jurisdiction is restricted to England and Wales only and would have no authority to send in the bailiffs in Scotland never mind Thailand.

The bank has evidently sold on the debt to a recovery agency which has no power to retrieve funds from you in Thailand and has ABSOLUTELY no standing with the Thai government or its departments.

You could however have some sport with the people hounding you by ringing them from time to time to inform them of your location, preferably while ensconced in your deck chair lolling on a beach somewhere in, say, Samui , inviting them to pop round and have a drink whenever they are free. Describing their women folk in zoological terms and casting doubt upon their parentage is always an added bonus.

Great fun, as is sending a postcard to the bank which contributed greatly to your financial affairs.

There is absolutely no dishonour in this and your gloating would not be amiss since the British banking institutions undoubtedly deserve every misfortune likely to befall them. What they have done to hundreds of thousands of innocent victims makes your error pale into utter insignificance.

[farangmal]

I have a worrying question which i hope someone can help clarify for me-

I have a long outstanding debt to a UK Bank, not big, but enough. The debt collecting agency got my number here and has now said that if i don't pay it will be passed to the courts in UK to get a court order to approach immigration here and request the cancellation of any visas i have to stay in Thailand. I work here on a non B. Is this really possible ? Needless to say, I am very worried about this!

Yes it is. They arrested then deported a German bar owner from Pattaya recently because He owed 4 Million baht to credit cards.

They are getting tough in the Uk now and they also can change unsecured debt into secured debt and take your house...even though it was initially called an unsecured loan. It's called a change order.

Yes they can get you and the Thais will co operate.

Edited January 14, 2009 by farangmal

[endure]

I have a worrying question which i hope someone can help clarify for me-

I have a long outstanding debt to a UK Bank, not big, but enough. The debt collecting agency got my number here and has now said that if i don't pay it will be passed to the courts in UK to get a court order to approach immigration here and request the cancellation of any visas i have to stay in Thailand. I work here on a non B. Is this really possible ? Needless to say, I am very worried about this!

Yes it is. They arrested then deported a German bar owner from Pattaya recently because He owed 4 Million baht to credit cards.

They are getting tough in the Uk now and they also can change unsecured debt into secured debt and take your house...even though it was initially called an unsecured loan. It's called a change order.

Do you mean a 'charging order'? If so, it only puts a charge on a debtor's property so that you would be first in the queue when the property is sold. It does not force the debtor to sell the property.

[Kharzi]

I have a worrying question which i hope someone can help clarify for me-

I have a long outstanding debt to a UK Bank, not big, but enough. The debt collecting agency got my number here and has now said that if i don't pay it will be passed to the courts in UK to get a court order to approach immigration here and request the cancellation of any visas i have to stay in Thailand. I work here on a non B. Is this really possible ? Needless to say, I am very worried about this!

Yes it is. They arrested then deported a German bar owner from Pattaya recently because He owed 4 Million baht to credit cards.

They are getting tough in the Uk now and they also can change unsecured debt into secured debt and take your house...even though it was initially called an unsecured loan. It's called a change order.

Yes they can get you and the Thais will co operate.

Utter drivel.

Whilst it was always the case that the deliberate accumulation of debt with the intention to permanently deprive, known in the criminal calendar as conversion, an extraditable offence, would place one in jeopardy the OP is by no means within that compass. Unsecured debt can be charged to an asset if liability is not protected but then that was always the case but realising the asset is only possible within jurisdiction and if it exists.

Your post is alarmist and misleading in the context of the OP and is accordingly of little value. Your certainty is as misplaced as your ignorance is unwelcome.

[dbrenn]

I have a worrying question which i hope someone can help clarify for me-

I have a long outstanding debt to a UK Bank, not big, but enough. The debt collecting agency got my number here and has now said that if i don't pay it will be passed to the courts in UK to get a court order to approach immigration here and request the cancellation of any visas i have to stay in Thailand. I work here on a non B. Is this really possible ? Needless to say, I am very worried about this!

Yes it is. They arrested then deported a German bar owner from Pattaya recently because He owed 4 Million baht to credit cards.

They are getting tough in the Uk now and they also can change unsecured debt into secured debt and take your house...even though it was initially called an unsecured loan. It's called a change order.

Yes they can get you and the Thais will co operate.

Utter drivel.

Whilst it was always the case that the deliberate accumulation of debt with the intention to permanently deprive, known in the criminal calendar as conversion, an extraditable offence, would place one in jeopardy the OP is by no means within that compass. Unsecured debt can be charged to an asset if liability is not protected but then that was always the case but realising the asset is only possible within jurisdiction and if it exists.

Your post is alarmist and misleading in the context of the OP and is accordingly of little value. Your certainty is as misplaced as your ignorance is unwelcome.

I think that the German guy must have done something much more serious than be in default on his credit cards and that the real reason for his arrest was something completely different.

I'm not a lawyer but I thought that conversion relates only to the property of another over which you have custody? For instance, if you are lent something and subsequently sell it. Or, if you accidentally take someone's jacket from a cloakroom and then decide to keep it because it is better than your jacket.

Hence, running up a personal debt in your own name would not considered a conversion - you have not 'converted' anything in a legal sense, and there would be no way of proving that you intended to permanently deprive anyone of anything.

Edited January 14, 2009 by dbrenn

[kjhbigv]

I have a worrying question which i hope someone can help clarify for me-

I have a long outstanding debt to a UK Bank, not big, but enough. The debt collecting agency got my number here and has now said that if i don't pay it will be passed to the courts in UK to get a court order to approach immigration here and request the cancellation of any visas i have to stay in Thailand. I work here on a non B. Is this really possible ? Needless to say, I am very worried about this!

I have to agree with the other comments, 6k overdraft 3 years ago. I presume no assets in the UK. These Debt colecting agencies always try and put the 'frighteners' on outstanding debts. The original bank in question would have already effectively written the debt off as far as their books are concerned. Remember, these agencies get a cut of what they retrieve.

As for affecting you over here, I find it extremely unlikely they would pursue a debt for 6k from some guy in Thailand with no assets in the UK, when they could spend their time getting cash off one of the millions of people in debt on credit cards/loans etc who are in the UK and working!

£6k is absolute peanuts in the big scheme of things. The only downside is that a CCJ will probably be registered at your last known UK address that the company has registered for you, wich means if you go back to UK will be difficult to get credit for next 6 years.

With regards to this, if it was me, I would tell them that I have no money, can't pay them and tell them they can do what they want!

I think they would rather go after the easy target; Gaz the plumber from Essex who has run up £50k on credit cards! Take a charge on his house and wait for him to get back on his feet and then get the money back. Not some bloke 6000 miles away!

I have worked in financial services for 20 years+ in debt colection, lending, mortgages etc and have seen threats like this many times!

If you want to be completely above board, do as others say, declare yourself bankrupt in the UK and job done......get a few more loans before you do it though!

[kjhbigv]

I have a worrying question which i hope someone can help clarify for me-

I have a long outstanding debt to a UK Bank, not big, but enough. The debt collecting agency got my number here and has now said that if i don't pay it will be passed to the courts in UK to get a court order to approach immigration here and request the cancellation of any visas i have to stay in Thailand. I work here on a non B. Is this really possible ? Needless to say, I am very worried about this!

Yes it is. They arrested then deported a German bar owner from Pattaya recently because He owed 4 Million baht to credit cards.

They are getting tough in the Uk now and they also can change unsecured debt into secured debt and take your house...even though it was initially called an unsecured loan. It's called a change order.

Yes they can get you and the Thais will co operate.

Utter drivel.

Whilst it was always the case that the deliberate accumulation of debt with the intention to permanently deprive, known in the criminal calendar as conversion, an extraditable offence, would place one in jeopardy the OP is by no means within that compass. Unsecured debt can be charged to an asset if liability is not protected but then that was always the case but realising the asset is only possible within jurisdiction and if it exists.

Your post is alarmist and misleading in the context of the OP and is accordingly of little value. Your certainty is as misplaced as your ignorance is unwelcome.

I think that the German guy must have done something much more serious than be in default on his credit cards and that the real reason for his arrest was something completely different.

I'm not a lawyer but I thought that conversion relates only to the property of another over which you have custody? For instance, if you are lent something and subsequently sell it. Or, if you accidentally take someone's jacket from a cloakroom and then decide to keep it because it is better than your jacket.

Hence, running up a personal debt in your own name would not considered a conversion - you have not 'converted' anything in a legal sense, and there would be no way of proving that you intended to permanently deprive anyone of anything.

Absolute rubbish, sorry!

Deported for a small civil matter.....no way! For a company in the UK to go through the legal formalities and considerable language barrier to secure a debt in the UK on property or assets over here....no chance! Why?When there literally millions of bad debtor 'easy pickings' with property and equity in the UK!?

I would like to see just one instance of this.

I think this guy had done a lot more than not paid his credit card!

Yes they can make an unsecured debt into a secured debt (usually on your home) IN THE UK! It is actually called a CHARGE ORDER and is usually on larger debts where there is an asset the court can grant a charge against. Basically, it allows the borrower to stay in their home, rather than the court granting a repossession order and losing their home. It is also when you have equity in your home, when you sell it they will get their money back.

As for doing this on property in Thailand, I don't think so! We can't even legally own most property in Thailand!!

[sushi5734]

I have a worrying question which i hope someone can help clarify for me-

I have a long outstanding debt to a UK Bank, not big, but enough. The debt collecting agency got my number here and has now said that if i don't pay it will be passed to the courts in UK to get a court order to approach immigration here and request the cancellation of any visas i have to stay in Thailand. I work here on a non B. Is this really possible ? Needless to say, I am very worried about this!

I have to agree with the other comments, 6k overdraft 3 years ago. I presume no assets in the UK. These Debt colecting agencies always try and put the 'frighteners' on outstanding debts. The original bank in question would have already effectively written the debt off as far as their books are concerned. Remember, these agencies get a cut of what they retrieve.

As for affecting you over here, I find it extremely unlikely they would pursue a debt for 6k from some guy in Thailand with no assets in the UK, when they could spend their time getting cash off one of the millions of people in debt on credit cards/loans etc who are in the UK and working!

£6k is absolute peanuts in the big scheme of things. The only downside is that a CCJ will probably be registered at your last known UK address that the company has registered for you, wich means if you go back to UK will be difficult to get credit for next 6 years.

With regards to this, if it was me, I would tell them that I have no money, can't pay them and tell them they can do what they want!

I think they would rather go after the easy target; Gaz the plumber from Essex who has run up £50k on credit cards! Take a charge on his house and wait for him to get back on his feet and then get the money back. Not some bloke 6000 miles away!

I have worked in financial services for 20 years+ in debt colection, lending, mortgages etc and have seen threats like this many times!

If you want to be completely above board, do as others say, declare yourself bankrupt in the UK and job done......get a few more loans before you do it though!

spot on......the guys who work for these debt recovery call centres get either bonuses or commision when they get a debtor to repay the debt or adhere to a repayment plan so they will come out with all sorts of rubbish to scare you in repaying. Most of these guys are not experts and are more than happy to lie to get a repayment!!

You might find that the bank or the next debt company that the debt is sold onto wil offer you a settlement offer which could 50% off

As long as you have no assets to sieze in the UK and have no plans to go back and buy a house get a credit card then screw em

After all they only have your phone number right?!! even if they knew your address employer they woudn't be able to to jack

They can no longer chase the debt after 6 years and as far as I know that 6 years starts ticking from the date you last made a payment. After this time your credit record gets wiped clean.

I reckon the german fella who was deported must have been involved in some form of fraud or something like that, they would have to demonstrate that there was intent to dishonestly permenantly deprive the bank of the funds....thats a very long away from sorry I can't afford to pay.

I have no sympathy for these companies they feed off other peoples misfortune and misery.

A good freind of mine works for experian (massive credit reference agency in the UK and worldwide) and he used to work in a dept that used the following;

An individual gets behind on repayment for loan mortgage etc so his credit rating is lowered this department would then sell the details of the individual to "get a loan today" type companies who would then send out letter to that person offering a quick solution to all thier 'debt needs' in other words offering them another bigger loan at a higher rate of interest.

How do these people sleep at night?!

[britmaveric]

^not paying back a loan is FRAUD!!!

[samtam]

Thank you, finally - britmaveric! It's fraud. If you can afford to repay, then repay. You owe the money.

[patklang]

If you have a court order date then maybe the thai government could revoke your visa or refuse renewal based on an outstanding court order.That will give you a criminal record if you dont appear at the court on the date specified.