Similans Tourists See Boat People Mistreated

[oceano]

Mr. Prasong further added that Thai soldiers also had helped the refugees repairing their boats before sending them with enough food and water that would last for several weeks. Hence, he would like to condemn the BBC for fabricating the news without any facts and broadcasting it to the world which later has ruined the reputation and image of Thailand.

Reports also suggested that beside the assigned soldiers, the locals residing on the island have also been assisting the refugees with food and water as well.

So the picture are fabricate from the BBC....bad men...we must to send one email to the BBC, for say that their are very bad bad men for ruined the reputation and image of Thailand.

BBC you are

[Briggsy]

With respect to the latest batch of 126 Burmese/Bangladeshis that were returned to the ocean, I think it is a safe bet the soldiers ensured there will be no-one annoyingly left alive to go and tell tales to the UN again. They will have learnt from previous experiences.

Also it was the South China Morning Post who broke the story and not the BBC. However Thai senior military do not insult Chinese openly whilst Western media outlets can be attacked.

[tso310]

Also it was the South China Morning Post who broke the story and not the BBC. However Thai senior military do not insult Chinese openly whilst Western media outlets can be attacked.

Good point.

[yumidesign]

Full story and tourist photos of the incident at Phuketwan, and also appearing in the South China Morning Post this morning.

dramatic photos and another black eye for Thailand tourism...

also details by Dr Andrew Walker in todays Sydney Morning Herald

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/you-wou...2471591599.html

[Crushdepth]

Prasong said the visit and the information obtained from several parties led to the resolution that there was no abuse of Rohingya refugees and their legs and hands were not tied up as a foreign media reported. He said the military officers also provided the refuges with food and drinking water that was sufficient for a week and helped reinforce their boat before they were pushed out of the country.

Yes I'm sure it was a very thorough and credible investigation (cough cough). But even if its true, is it reasonable to dump people at sea in a boat with no power?

[brahmburgers]

Interesting to note that Thai investigators don't interview any of the Rohinga boat people. Thai investigators/committees looking in to it - only seem to be asking military brass about the situation.

It's not reasonable to picture Thai authorities invterviewing the victims, as Rohingas and such are seen by them as 'less than human' - which is also why it's not difficult (for them) to treat them so inhumanely.

[TAWP]

I think we are beginning to see the true colors of the PM. Fortunately, because of the lack of an electoral mandate, can't say that it's the color of the counry, but someohow I think it may be.

What on earth are you on about?

Are you claiming ignorance and feeding some misconception in your mind that this is a new policy enacted since some 3 weeks ago and never before?

[Scott]

Sorry TAWP if I was confusing. I was alluding to the fact that I thought the new PM might be a little more open and honest that he seems to be on this situation. I certainly do not hold him personally responsible for what has happened in the past. Thailand's approached to refugees and migrants has been mixed in the past (as are many countries). I just was wishfully hoping he would be more open.

The people of the country, by and large, probably don't see anything wrong with what's being done--they simply don't want them here. It takes someone with a lot of intestinal fortitutde to rise above expediency and do the right thing for these people and have the international community held accountable for assisting with the problem instead of the international community holding Thailand responsible for mistreatment.

I also think that the Thai gov't (again, a long standing policy), needs to put some pressure on Burma to change, so the situation improves for the people.

Sorry to inject some political opinions in a situation which I think is serious. I hope people can focus on the problem of these people.

[sutnyod]

Here's a link with a site explaining who these boat people are and why they continue to make the dangerous journey to Thailand.Rohingya People Sea Gypsies

Kaladanpress also has very authentic articles, sometimes the Norwegian Democratic Voice of Burma. However, the Rohingya are not Sea gypsies. They are foremost farmers (and very good ones), as well as traders. They are the most oppressed minority in Burma. They used to have citizenship before. In the 80s a new law was introduced and all ethnic minorities in the country had to reapply. All were granted citizenship. Except the Rohingyas. If you know the Burmese military or the Nasaka you know what THAT means.

I really hope that their recent plight is not as easily forgotten as their exodus into Bangladesh more than 15 years ago, when they made world headlines for a few days.

[Scott]

One big problem with stateless people is determining where to send them back to. Bangladesh may refuse to take them and Burma has already denied them citizenship.

[Rinrada]

Thailand says 126 asylum-seekers from the Burmese Rohingya minority who were detained by the military a week ago have been sent back out to sea.

The government admits it has had trouble getting information about these detainees from the local military units known to be holding them.

Now it is being told they too have been sent back out to sea - although under what conditions is not clear.

Human rights groups fear they too may have suffered the same fate as the previous groups.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has assured them illegal migrants will be treated humanely, but he appears to have little control over how the military deals with them.

So SAD ...A Prime Minister in name only.

[Rinrada]

Thailand says 126 asylum-seekers from the Burmese Rohingya minority who were detained by the military a week ago have been sent back out to sea.

The government admits it has had trouble getting information about these detainees from the local military units known to be holding them.

Now it is being told they too have been sent back out to sea - although under what conditions is not clear.

Human rights groups fear they too may have suffered the same fate as the previous groups.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has assured them illegal migrants will be treated humanely, but he appears to have little control over how the military deals with them.

So SAD ...A Prime Minister in name only.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7846570.stm

[Scott]

So much for rational thought. I previously said that it's difficult to know where to send stateless people. Thailand, in it's infinite wisdom has found the answer--just put them out in the ocean.

Sounds like this PM has his work cut out for him. He might want to try and get control of the Armed Forces. They seem to be a power unto themselves.

[Steve2UK]

At least Al Jazeera are still investigating the Rohingya story - I just watched an on the spot report from their Selina Downes. The report is also summarised (with some pictures) on the station's website:

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pac...7424655753.html

An excerpt:

"Villagers in Kura Buri on Thailand's southern coast have told Al Jazeera that they were asked to remove the engine of a boat with Rohingyas on board before it was towed back out to sea".

I just checked through both The Nation & Bangkok Post websites and find nothing to indicate that either has sent a reporter to actually look into the facts on the ground (as opposed to reporting the official..... cough, cough...... "investigation"). I guess it's really expecting too much that someone from either paper might actually leave their office and go to a location in their own country to investigate the story as Al Jazeera have done? Instead, they seem content to just read the newswires and write opinion pieces.

[ratcatcher]

Sorry TAWP if I was confusing. I was alluding to the fact that I thought the new PM might be a little more open and honest that he seems to be on this situation. I certainly do not hold him personally responsible for what has happened in the past. Thailand's approached to refugees and migrants has been mixed in the past (as are many countries). I just was wishfully hoping he would be more open.

The people of the country, by and large, probably don't see anything wrong with what's being done--they simply don't want them here. It takes someone with a lot of testicular (intestinal) fortitude to rise above expediency and do the right thing for these people and have the international community held accountable for assisting with the problem instead of the international community holding Thailand responsible for mistreatment.

I also think that the Thai gov't (again, a long standing policy), needs to put some pressure on Burma to change, so the situation improves for the people.

Sorry to inject some political opinions in a situation which I think is serious. I hope people can focus on the problem of these people.

I believe that in today's political climate that should read "testicular' rather than "intestinal".

[Scott]

There's also some coverage on the CNN web site. I think the article they are citing is from Time magazine.

[saneroad]

Video of the Indian coast guard rescue of one group on South China Morning Post, lest we forget who this story is about....

[Scott]

This was the lead story on CNN this morning (I saw it at 7:00 a.m. Thai Time). It's an 'investigative' report with some good video, an interview with a Rohingya who had escaped into the jungle and was caught by the security forces. They also interviewed a guy who helped guard them at night. It also shows them being towed out to sea. Definitely a black-eye for Thailand. A few of those on the video, were nothing more than kids.

It will be quite hard for the gov't to explain it's way out of this, but I am sure they will.

Seems the country has a ways to go before the rule-of-law is even close.

[steffi]

Yep it's the lead on their website now too.

This was the lead story on CNN this morning (I saw it at 7:00 a.m. Thai Time). It's an 'investigative' report with some good video, an interview with a Rohingya who had escaped into the jungle and was caught by the security forces. They also interviewed a guy who helped guard them at night. It also shows them being towed out to sea. Definitely a black-eye for Thailand. A few of those on the video, were nothing more than kids.

It will be quite hard for the gov't to explain it's way out of this, but I am sure they will.

Seems the country has a ways to go before the rule-of-law is even close.

[Steve2UK]

Yep it's the lead on their website now too.

This was the lead story on CNN this morning (I saw it at 7:00 a.m. Thai Time). It's an 'investigative' report with some good video, an interview with a Rohingya who had escaped into the jungle and was caught by the security forces. They also interviewed a guy who helped guard them at night. It also shows them being towed out to sea. Definitely a black-eye for Thailand. A few of those on the video, were nothing more than kids.

It will be quite hard for the gov't to explain it's way out of this, but I am sure they will.

Seems the country has a ways to go before the rule-of-law is even close.

Website report (including onward links to video of both today's report and to an earlier one including UNHCR interview) at:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/01/2...gees/index.html

[Scott]

Thanks for the link. I am a little technologically challenged, so can't do that.

I wonder how Thailand is going to squirm out of this one.

[steffi]

If the Time article is in the printed magazine is it still possible to find it on the shelves at Asia Books? Perhaps those people who hock used magazines and walkmans on Petchburi road on the way to Panthip will sell it.

Thanks for the link. I am a little technologically challenged, so can't do that.

I wonder how Thailand is going to squirm out of this one.

[Samuian]

"Refugees" somewhere else is stated that they fall more and more often victim to ruthless "Agents" who send them on the passage!

may this shed some more light on the sitation:

The rohingya refugees and asylum seekers are a minority in Burma's northern Arakan state. During 1991-92, around 270,000 refugees fled to Bangladesh to escape persecution by the Burmese military junta. Over the years, the UN High Commissioner for Refugees has successfully repatriated at least 230,000 Rohingyas back to Burma. The rest are staying in the two main camps - Nayapara and Kutupalong in Cox's Bazar - without any real prospects of going home. Due to the short distance between these camps and Thailand's western coastal areas, they began to come by boats in the mid-1990s, before it became headline news. Gradually the numbers became bigger and the influx more frequent, especially during this time of the year when the sea is usually calmer. They would arrive in Ranong and other coastal provinces through vast transnational human smuggling rings, either on transit to Malaysia or Indonesia, or in search for a better life in Thailand.

and

Thailand is one of top destinations with over 400,000 refugees and asylum seekers. USCRI pointed out that within Asia, Thailand along with Malaysia, China, Bangladesh and India are among the worst violators of the international principles as outlined by the UN Convention on Refugees 1951.

At the moment, according to unofficial statistics, Thailand is home to more than 5 million refugees, asylum seekers and illegal migrant workers and visa over-stayers in one form or another from over a dozen countries, including all bordering countries except Malaysia, and countries as far as Iran, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Russia, North Korea, China, India, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Pakistan as well as a few thousands of illegal immigrants from Western countries. Despite several improved measures to increase coordination among intra-agencies in the past, on the whole the Thai treatment of these unfortunate people still comes under fire due to the lack of consistency, compassion and cooperation with international organisations, including UNHCR and numerous humanitarian organisations. One hindrance is Thailand's continuous refusal to sign the 1951 Refugee Convention.

Thailand has never signed the UN Refugee Convention!

Still harbored tens of thousands of Cambodians in Pol Pot times, the Karen Problem.....

Upon closer scrutiny, it is a real blessing in disguise that the Rohinya problem blew up in the face of the Abhisit-led government. First of all, given his professed high moral ground, Abhisit will definitely act on issues related to human rights and freedom of expression sooner than later. Secondly, the Rohingya refugees also exposed the Thai government's limit, or for that matter what the countries at the receiving end can do on a human tragedy of this scale that they have not created. Thirdly, their plight will enable the public and global communities to understand the problem's root cause and solve it at the source.

Quotes from:

Remember the recent Cyclone and the Juntas reaction towards foreign aid?

The soldiers on the beaches, coming into the "limelight" of the "human rights commission" and all the other "do'gooders" have a duty to fulfill, to protect Thailand's borders, also of illegal "Migrants", Australia does very similar things, comes Noumea to mind, anyone ever arrested at the Mexican-US border?

Trying to flee from Communist Germany to "West-Germany" people got shot, torn to pieces, or incarcerated for long time, North-Korea anyone, annually there are thousands of illegal "refugees" from Africa to Spain and Sicily, from Albania to Italy....and there are reports of drownings and other human disasters filling the headlines almost daily.... but over time got ever less attention..

Anyone?

Edited January 26, 2009 by Samuian

[sleepyjohn]

This was the lead story on CNN this morning

.....and a good job too. I have been truly sickened by yet another example of what man can do to man. In this case it is obviously authentic.

The CNN reporter actually said the boats were towed "several hundred kilometres" out to sea (more info anyone?).

Now's the time for Abhisit to show his true colours and we'll see if he has the cajones to deal with this in a proper fashion.

[Scott]

I am sorry I can't give you a link to the article from Time. It was on the internet--Time.com??? I think I got led to it through CNN's web site. I really am not very good with the internet and I am sure if I tried to find it again, I couldn't!

It is sad to see such poor oversight of the military by a gov't--but then maybe the military is the gov't? Unfortunately, it will be the gov't that has to answer for the military.

The one possible silver lining in all of this is that maybe Thailand will see that's it's endless appeasement of the Burmese Junta is bringing them more negatives than positives.

But then again, TIT.

[Steve2UK]

I am sorry I can't give you a link to the article from Time. It was on the internet--Time.com??? I think I got led to it through CNN's web site. I really am not very good with the internet and I am sure if I tried to find it again, I couldn't!

Here you go:

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8...1872426,00.html

[Samuian]

This was the lead story on CNN this morning

.....and a good job too. I have been truly sickened by yet another example of what man can do to man. In this case it is obviously authentic.

The CNN reporter actually said the boats were towed "several hundred kilometres" out to sea (more info anyone?).

Now's the time for Abhisit to show his true colours and we'll see if he has the cajones to deal with this in a proper fashion.

Did he follow them with his surf board, Chopper, kite surfer, rubber dinghy or did he swim himself or did he used a spy satellite for support?

However I think that this is an issue to be tackled with the Myanmar Junta, who causes these and several other problems... for their neighbors AND for the people!

Edited January 26, 2009 by Samuian

[Steve2UK]

"Refugees" somewhere else is stated that they fall more and more often victim to ruthless "Agents" who send them on the passage!

may this shed some more light on the sitation:

The rohingya refugees and asylum seekers are a minority in Burma's northern Arakan state. During 1991-92, around 270,000 refugees fled to Bangladesh to escape persecution by the Burmese military junta. Over the years, the UN High Commissioner for Refugees has successfully repatriated at least 230,000 Rohingyas back to Burma. The rest are staying in the two main camps - Nayapara and Kutupalong in Cox's Bazar - without any real prospects of going home. Due to the short distance between these camps and Thailand's western coastal areas, they began to come by boats in the mid-1990s, before it became headline news. Gradually the numbers became bigger and the influx more frequent, especially during this time of the year when the sea is usually calmer. They would arrive in Ranong and other coastal provinces through vast transnational human smuggling rings, either on transit to Malaysia or Indonesia, or in search for a better life in Thailand.

and

Thailand is one of top destinations with over 400,000 refugees and asylum seekers. USCRI pointed out that within Asia, Thailand along with Malaysia, China, Bangladesh and India are among the worst violators of the international principles as outlined by the UN Convention on Refugees 1951.

At the moment, according to unofficial statistics, Thailand is home to more than 5 million refugees, asylum seekers and illegal migrant workers and visa over-stayers in one form or another from over a dozen countries, including all bordering countries except Malaysia, and countries as far as Iran, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Russia, North Korea, China, India, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Pakistan as well as a few thousands of illegal immigrants from Western countries. Despite several improved measures to increase coordination among intra-agencies in the past, on the whole the Thai treatment of these unfortunate people still comes under fire due to the lack of consistency, compassion and cooperation with international organisations, including UNHCR and numerous humanitarian organisations. One hindrance is Thailand's continuous refusal to sign the 1951 Refugee Convention.

Thailand has never signed the UN Refugee Convention!

Still harbored tens of thousands of Cambodians in Pol Pot times, the Karen Problem.....

Upon closer scrutiny, it is a real blessing in disguise that the Rohinya problem blew up in the face of the Abhisit-led government. First of all, given his professed high moral ground, Abhisit will definitely act on issues related to human rights and freedom of expression sooner than later. Secondly, the Rohingya refugees also exposed the Thai government's limit, or for that matter what the countries at the receiving end can do on a human tragedy of this scale that they have not created. Thirdly, their plight will enable the public and global communities to understand the problem's root cause and solve it at the source.

Quotes from:

Remember the recent Cyclone and the Juntas reaction towards foreign aid?

The soldiers on the beaches, coming into the "limelight" of the "human rights commission" and all the other "do'gooders" have a duty to fulfill, to protect Thailand's borders, also of illegal "Migrants", Australia does very similar things, comes Noumea to mind, anyone ever arrested at the Mexican-US border?

Trying to flee from Communist Germany to "West-Germany" people got shot, torn to pieces, or incarcerated for long time, North-Korea anyone, annually there are thousands of illegal "refugees" from Africa to Spain and Sicily, from Albania to Italy....and there are reports of drownings and other human disasters filling the headlines almost daily.... but over time got ever less attention..

Anyone?

Samuian, it's difficult to make out what you're asking.........

Yes, refugees (be they that or "economic migrants") are a growing, difficult and global problem frequently exploited by "agents" or traffickers - and, yes, few governments can lay claim to a spotless record in their handling of the issue. If I remember correctly, the Australian government's policy of putting them in camps in faraway offshore territories has also come in for strong criticism - but they were not accused of what has been alleged in this case.

North Korea, Burma and East Germany (until 1989) have pretty appalling and well-documented records. Are you suggesting that the defence for what is alleged here is: "Look - we're not the only ones" or "We're doing no worse than them"?

[Steve2UK]

This was the lead story on CNN this morning

.....and a good job too. I have been truly sickened by yet another example of what man can do to man. In this case it is obviously authentic.

The CNN reporter actually said the boats were towed "several hundred kilometres" out to sea (more info anyone?).

Now's the time for Abhisit to show his true colours and we'll see if he has the cajones to deal with this in a proper fashion.

Did he follow them with his surf board, Chopper, kite surfer, rubber dinghy or did he swim himself or did he used a spy satellite for support?

However I think that this is an issue to be tackled with the Myanmar Junta, who causes these and several other problems... for their neighbors AND for the people!

Samuian, I haven't seen the exact wording as quoted by Sleepyjohn - but the following is in the CNN website article:

"Extraordinary photos obtained by CNN from someone directly involved in the Thai operation show refugees on their rickety boats being towed out to sea, cut loose and abandoned......................... The source who provided CNN with photos of refugees in a boat being towed out to sea stressed that the Thai army had given the refugees food and water, but he also confirmed that the boats had been pulled for more than two days into international waters before they were set adrift.

His account directly contradicts briefings by senior Thai army sources who denied any such operation was undertaken."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/01/2...gees/index.html

[my emphasis above]

Frankly, I find your first sentence looks rather desperate not to say more than a little sick given the nature of what is being reported here. Did you actually bother to read any of the articles or view any of the video reports before lunging at the keyboard?

No quarrel with your post-edit second observation - it's very much an international problem that needs multi-lateral action. And, after all, the Thai military brass know their Burmese junta counterparts very well..............

[Xangsamhua]

Refugee pictures put more pressure on Thailand

Posted 2 hours 31 minutes ago

A group of refugees guarded by the Thai army on the island of Koh Sai Baed in 2008. (Reuters)

<script type=text/javascript> Pressure has mounted on Thailand to come clean on allegations the army towed Rohingya refugees out to sea and abandoned them in boats without engines, after CNN showed pictures depicting exactly that.

The Rohingyas are Muslims from north-west Burma. Many have fled the Bhuddist-dominated, military-ruled country, where they say they face repression and economic hardship.

CNN also interviewed a Rohingya man captured by civilian militia on one remote Thai island in the Andaman Sea, who said he had been on one of six refugee boats that arrived in December.

The boats were towed back out to sea in January but five of them sank, the visibly distressed man said in a mixture of broken English and sign language.

"All men ... dead," said the man, identified as Iqbal Hussein, corroborating other survivors' reports of boats cut adrift without engines and hundreds of migrants left to die.

The Government's chief spokesman declined immediate comment, saying all questions should be directed to the Foreign Ministry.

Rohingya rights groups and survivors who washed up on India's Andaman Islands and Aceh in Indonesia in the last four weeks say 992 migrants were towed out in two separate episodes in December.

Of the 992, 550 are thought to be missing, feared drowned.

The army colonel at the centre of the abuse allegations has denied any wrongdoing, and said the migrants were given food and water and helped on their way after Thai villagers repaired their boats.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has promised a full investigation, but has also issued on behalf of the military a blanket denial of any abuse.

As a result of decades of persecution, more than 230,000 Rohingyas have fled to neighbouring Bangladesh, according to the United Nations refugee agency.

Tens of thousands more have fled, normally in rickety wooden boats, in search of a better life elsewhere. Many have ended up in Malaysia.

-Reuters

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01....mc_id=newsmail