A thai girlfriend

[Eastender]

Wow, up to page 6 now.  What have I started here. I'ts very interesting though - keep em comming.

[Dutch Vader]

A good response Eastender! "Keep 'm coming": the first reply that makes me feel that a discusison can be had here without that I have to defend myself for every word I write! Are people open-minded here and willing to have a discussion and think about something, or just happy to crack down on every opinion that is not theirs?

Now what whas your question again so we can keep on "fighting"?

[Bud Zumwalt]

I have learned a lot reading all seven pages, each of you have different views about Thai Ladies. But when you get right down to it, it is mostly about financial security, of which many beautiful ladies living in Thailand may be in need of. There seems to be a gap here, in Thailand you are either poor or rich, not much in the middle. However, I see more and more autos, more then scooters now. Hate trying to cross the street in Bangkok if there is no over head walks, especially walking back to the hotel after happy hour at 8:00 AM.

You all have given this post so many great responses, but what about me? Can you all come over to my post on email proposals, you know one of the more recent posts. It seems I am the only one answering my own post. I really need you alls help this southern boy from Florida. I just got another email from my Thai future wife, I have not met yet .. really, but she is serious. I have used all my disk space with her photos, she is 39, above average looking, slim, you know .. many like her around .. just look on the side walk in Bangkok, long hair, jeans that fit nice, clogs that make them at least 5'6", and nice top .. but she has emailed me every few days, she seems for real, she is very sincere, most of the girls posting ads, come out and say in the ad looking for husband, so is it uncommon for one too assume a guy coming to see her would not become her husband? This is odd for our American culture, but Thai culture? Not the Thai culture Dutch Vader sees, but is he reality? Maybe she was a two month bar girl too? I guess they all were. Is this just a con, or could she be serious? If I consider her just a Pro bar girl then what if she is not? Have I broken an honest women's heart? Could I live with myself if I passed on someone who could have worked out really great as a possible future mate?

Bud Zumwalt

Palm Beach, Florida, USA

[dr_Pat_Pong]

A host of over generalizations hardlyapplicable to 2003 / 2546

[Bud Zumwalt]

dr_Pat_Pong,

I hope your not the one doing my up coming plastic corrective surgery in Bangkok on October 7, but perhaps a few words of wisdom could be echoed from your lips. If not on this post try my post.

If you need a job Dr. Pichet is hiring.

Bud

Palm Beach, Florida, USA

[Maigo6]

Reading some of these posts, i am sure that most people here are 2 week holiday Thailand experts. Its laughable.

Way too many generalisations.

cheers

[Bud Zumwalt]

Maigo 6.

generalizations spelled with a z not s

If you cannot even spell the word, perhaps you should consider not commenting at all. Many of us have logged the time, but really how long does it take to catch on?

Bud

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Only Americans use a ZEE so I guess you'd better apologize (or to a Brit or Ozzie apologise.) It is a B I G wide world out there.

[Maigo6]

yes, British use the s, not the z.

Take your foot out of your mouth Bud.

OK, i can spell, i can comment.

cheers

[chonabot]

IMO if someone was to live their life trying to get a serious relationship via email/inernet , then asking many questions about that relationship ( before even meeting the subject)

, asking these questions on a forum ,and many other forums possibly, they should question their own motives seriously.

That person is either a) a troll.

                            researching for  a survey.

                           c) woefully inadequate at life.

All in my opinion of course.

This is applied to the thread hijacker , not the thread starter btw.

Another hijacker is Dutch Moron/Vader who , when asked by the thread starter to "Keep 'em coming", wasn't even aware what the original question was about or from whom?--good stuff!

ps Maig06 , how about a response to my post to your question about Kohn Kaen/Loei ? - another hijack..lol

[Eastender]

I think people on furums should learn to start their topics with lines such as, "in my experience", or "what I've found is".

Also not being able to spel doesn't mean yer not qualifyed to gicve an opynion.

Any way,

As somebody else said above, I've learnt a #### of alot from this thread.  And I respect everyones opinions, which are all obviously based on thei own experiences of Thailand.  I have my own experience, mostly from talking to young Thai university students.  The mere mention of them having a boyfriend (let alone mentioning nationality) usually starts them giggling and blushing.

Anyway, keep um comming, and I'll keep you posted about how my love life is/isn't progressing.

Haven't heard from you Mali for a while?

[Maigo6]

Yeah Chonabot,

I am flying to KK tomorrow, hiring at the airport. I need to get to Lotus in KK, then do 2 hours driving to get to where i am going. Visit the in-laws, so i will buy a hot water shower. I dont drink nor do they , so i cant take a bottle!

Eastender, most posters in these forums could not find Thailand on a map of South-East Asia.

Bud, how's it going?  :laugh:

cheers

[Bud Zumwalt]

Chon,

In reply to your opinions:

A-troll, what is a troll? my appearance as told to me by ladies is handsome if thats what it means, and very young in appearance at age 55 I look 30, thanks to the facial nip and tuks I got from Dr. Pichet of Bangkok last June 2002, and thanks to a fine plastic man at Bangkok Hospital last June 2003, full head of hair because I have had hair transplants starting in 1978 in Bangkok and been back every few years as touch ups .. so I think I can find Thailand on the Map, I am a Nam vet who was a Lieutenant who lived without being fragged by his own men and partied in Thailand 1970 thru 1972, yes two big red one infantry tours and lived,

B-researching for a survery, well I am in away, because all my previous trips were not for finding a soul mate in life, just taking care of my immediate needs of nip or tuck and partying with the local bar maids .. not looking of a wife or anything more then long time, that is one night stands,

C-woefully inadequate at life, well visit my business web site at www.zgramyachtdeliveries.com

I have three graduate degrees, check my resume page on the site and see my photo, I am slim to average and in good health, I can meet the new required incomes for Thai Rescidency and do not need to border cross every three months

So in my opinion, trying to line up some ladies before my arrival this time is intelligent, how they react or respond to my photos and email replies is interesting, I thought I would share that with you all, since the most interesting posts on this forum just turned out to be a couple of clowns writing a soap opera. Or someone saying I do not want to say anything it is all generalization, spelled with an "S" because I am a brit. I do want a Thai wife, but obviously not without getting to know her well and the obvious, she has to look good and not be a butterfly. So, if lining up the ladies, getting addresses, phones or emails and talking to the ones who have emails and speak English is dum, then I guess I am in the same boat as the two that just made up the soap opera, and all you dummies that took em serious and wrote very long serious responses, maybe we are all dummies.

I am sorry if you all misunderstood me.

Bud

West Palm Beach, Florida, USA

[chonabot]

Nice response Bud!

A troll is someone who posts stuff in order to get responses

, usually things that aren't strictly true , to stir things up.

I'm impressed with your very honest self-description , and upbeat attitude.

Again , my opinion is of no use to you, but if all you say is true, and I have no reason to doubt it, Good luck to you.

You deserve to find whoever you are looking for!

Chonabot

[Dutch Vader]

Well, well, well. I am so AFWULLY sorry Conabot, that I didn't remember the exact question, asked by the discussion starter when I wrote that response .... (or did I?). Could I ever come to your mind that this was a means of trying to focus down the question of Eastender, give hem the opportunity to explain his question further, so we all would be able to think and think again about his question (maybe just formulated a little bit different than the first time, in an attempt to make the question and the backgrounds of it more clear).

To me the amount of negativity and outright hatred that damps from many of the respondes here makes me wonder what the intentions of a discussion here are? Is it only to crack down on people (who, at least that is what I do, do their best to ventilate their own experiences and opinions).

For shure it is not much fun here.

Eastender is right where he said that everybody here should  "learn to begin their comments with: "in my opinion" or "what I have found is...". That's what I tried to explain everytime!

It is almost disgusting (but for shure shocking) to read things like "this one is a troll; this one is somebody who is woefully inadequate at life" (quote from Chonabot) or "this Dutch Moron" (that's me I guess) (quote from Chonabot again). What a hatred!

Are you all people who have not learned to first read somebodys comment, then reflect on it, then agree or disagree, and if you disagree: give us your arguments so the commentator can think again and maybe even say: You are right, I was wrong, I stand corrected. Or is that too much to ask?

Maybe it is more easy and doesn't require the same amount of thinking and time, to just state: oh, you are a moron. This kills anybodys appetite to start a discussion or participate in it. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Think I can spend my time better somewhere else.

Dutch Vader.

[Dutch Vader]

Well put Bud Zumwald! Give it to these clowns here! They are just like schoolchildren who do not see or read or get what they want and then get angry!

Dutch Vader.

[Dutch Vader]

Dear Bud Zumwalt,

What do you mean with "The Thai culture Dutch Vader sees"? And yes, I am for real. I am not a Thai ghost at least, and today I am still in the flesh, so I must be for real.

I don't know THAT much about Thai culture, but I did live for a month in a small village in Isaan, together with my Thai girlfriend, a 100% Thai family and many Thai people around the whole day long. Not one farang in sight. Ofcourse this is the rural Thailand, not Bangkok, so maybe it's different from what all the experts on this forum, who live in Bangkok I presume (since they are talking about university students and so on) experience.

Or maybe my experiences are of no value, because maybe I am also "woefully inadequate at life", like Chonabot likes to mention. For what it's worth: I am a 36 year old laywer, have a university degree in law, and owe my own lawfirm for 5 years now. Have been practicing law for 10. But still, maybe I am just too stupid to have an opinion.

If you are looking for comments on your topic, that is, as I understood it, you want to know what people think about starting a relationship with a Thai woman who "advertised" on the internet, I think it is allright to try.

I wouldn't know why love could not grow in a relationship that started with an ad on the internet...

I think the Thai women who do this are sincere in their wish to find a farang partner. Maybe because they want somebody who gives them financial security, or a more educated guy than most Thai men are. Or because farang man have the reputation of being more sincere (not "runners" like Thai men). Could be a lot of reasons. You will have to talk and be with her to find out.

But let's be real about one thing: It is not uncommon that Thai women want a farang man for financial security. And I am NOT saying that this is bad. It is completely understandable. It is not THAT long ago, maybe 70 years or so, when in Holland for instance, women also married for financial security as an important goal.

Also I want to point out that I have never said or implied that bar girls are :"bad". They are not, most of them, I think. People are people and you find good and bad everywhere, in each part of society and/or the world.

I think it takes a lot of guts for a Thai girl to advertise herself as a potential bride for a farang man, because "not losing face" is very important in Thai culture and advertising oneself does pose a "los of face" for the girl involved. Or am I wrong here? Let the experts speak!

So she must be quite desperate to do this. Does this mean she will probably be from a very poor family? I think so. Again, maybe I am wrong. Let the experts stand me corrected!

But ofcourse, all this does not have to be a big problem.

For myself, I found a very lovely girl, 21 years old. For me it was "love at first sight" (yes, I do believe in this: yesterday somebody wrote that Dutch Vader, myself, would probably not believe in this). She was very beautiful from the outside, and when I got to know here, even more beautiful in the inside. She looked so cute and helpless. Ofcourse the poor thing was a bar girl: she came from a very poor family in Isaan and she HAD to feed her father and mother!

What I want to explain is, that I think you CAN start a relationship that works out seriously over an ad on the internet, like you also can start a relationship with a bar girl that works out seriously. If you get to know eachother, like eachother, appreciate eachother and learn to love eachother, the way things once started out is not that important.

But you have to keep in mind that many Thai ladies that place an advertisement for marriage on the internet are first seeking financial security. Therefore also, they are willing to choose somebody who doesn't exactly look like Brad Pitt! I don't think this is bad. As a farang you can easily provide that security, which opens the way for many other good things. You get chances that you might not that easily get in Western society, with all these "emancipated" carreer-women around, who have forgotten in many cases the importance of "little things", the happiness these little things can bring.

As a read somewhere: "If you enter a bar in the US, you have your choice of 3 overweight ladys, who are trying to behave like men, who are very demanding and seem to enjoy it; while in Bangkok you have a choice of 1000 beautiful feminine women, who seem desperate to make you feel good". If you respect these women, treat them good (ofcourse!) and get closer to one, build up a relationship, then why would this be bad?

I think the same thing goes for Thai women who place an ad on the internet.

Good luck to you.

Dutch Vader.

[Dutch Vader]

Correction: I am 38, not 36.

[chonabot]

DV

Afwull just Afwull...lol

As for reading posts properly , its funny that you compliment Bud, then read the post , and slag him off , coolio....

Keep em' coming.....hang on thats what Eastender said.

In your earlier post , you stated explicitly that  a Thai and Non Thai could not have the same strength of relationship as two people of the same race. Utter <deleted>.......

Quote from Dutch Vader

"Funnily enough, nevertheless these partners are very happy together, but their relationship can in no way be equalled with a "real" relationship between two Thai people or two Farang people. "

Any credibility you may have had , went out of the window with that gem.......still , it made me laugh afwully...afwully...

Another quote

"A good response Eastender! "Keep 'm coming":

Oh yeah , you did say that.....

Apologies though , its the end of a hard day , I'll probably read this tomorrow and think i shouldn't have bothered....Nah!

ps It takes more than a month in Isaan to get your head around all of the generalisations you have been spouting , try 17 years  

[Mali]

Hi Eastender,

I can see that your tropic has open up a lot of cans of worms. First, KWZ117, I would like to set thing straight that I am not Dutch Vader. Second, yes, I am a Thai woman who has been living and working in the US for some 27 yrs. I used to teach sciences but now I am running a small business. Third, when I post my opinion, I did not do it to defend Thai woman. However, I always hope to raise some awareness about my culture to some farangs who after all are guests to our country. Lastly, I also would like to present opinions from women perspectives. I cannot say that my opinions are for all Thai women but I am trying to do my best.

More to come later.

[Mali]

Mrentou,

Mrentou, FYI, Thai women are taught to marry men who pay more attention to what they have between their ears not between their legs. As most of us eventually learn that it is easier to teach some smart people to learn about sex than the other way round. Sex is something that ones can learn at any age. There is nothing about sex that ones can not just read the JOY OF SEX, and being honest with each other and willing to explore. Just because we are not so preoccupy with sex, it does not mean that we do not like sex or have no ability to do or enjoy it. We just prefer it to be behind the closed doors. I am sorry that my English was not clear enough for you. I did not think that I was nut. I was fully aware of who I was. I knew that they used western standard to judge me. I did not have casual sex with any of my pursuers. I did eventually get married and learn about sex and having a good time. The points that I was trying to get across to you were that you are a guest to my country. Do not come in an tell 60 mil people who have their own culture longer than some western culture to change their life style or their believes. I cannot imagine myself start telling my American friends to behave like me or think like me in any issues.

[Mali]

Dutch Vader.

Thailand has about 60 mil people and more than half of them are female. Thai female like any female in the whole world (US included) are not treated as an equal to male. For example, female in the US earn only 75% of the male for the same job. It isn’t that we are not as good as men. It is just we are not men. Thai people are just like any people in the world. We have genius, smart, not so smart, downright stupid people just like any country. The same go for female populations. We, female, are doctors, lawyers, engineers, entrepreneurs, teachers, laborers or any respectable careers. Unfortunately, some people only divided us to nice girls and bar girls. I am not saying that bar girls are stupid or not nice people. They happened to be a less fortunate people who were born poor (imagine rich girls turn tricks for money). I have always believed that there are only 2 classes of people in the world: the have and the have not. It is the duty of the Have side to make sure that the Have not is well taken care of and not to take advantages of them. I have read in this site that quite a few farangs here have married to bar girls. So, they used their experiences to judge Thai women in general. For you, Dutch Vader, to use your former bar girl wife's attitudes or behaviors to judge Thai people that they are not a long tem planner is not very smart. You have already known even though she might be smart but she did not have enough information like college women. You cannot use her as a standard, ok?

[Mali]

Dutch Vader,

To have a former bar girl as a wife and had lived in a small Thai village for a month without knowing the language are not a good enough to claim that you know Thailand. Of course, you can read from books. But I wish that you are more careful about your generalization. We are people just like Dutch people. We are individual just like anyone else. Yes, even as a bar girl, she is all flesh and blood just like you. I expect more from you as a lawyer.

[Dutch Vader]

Dear Mali,

I am not claiming that I know Thailand and never claimed I did. I stated several times that what I wrote was (only) my own individual experience (1), what I have seen around me when I was there (2) and what I have read in books (3).

Also I had no intention to generalize. It is perfectly OK if anybody else has different experiences and shares them here, I only am happy with that. Probably would give me valuable different information. I agree that in more than one place in the world women are not valued the same as men, for instance in pay. But what I saw, in Thailand, this difference was much bigger than in my own country. Also I saw a much bigger "under valued" role for women in Thailand than in Holland. For instance, are there women in Thai government? I think not 1 (but I maybe wrong).

The stress on the dividing in bar-girl and non-bar girls probably is the result of the attempt to answer Eastenders original question I was responding to: that question was something like: just how are the chances to have a relationship with a Thai girl including having "casual sex". My opinion was that these chances were not great with a non bar-girl, due to several aspects of Thai culture and so on. I thought that non - bar girls would not be "in" for casual sex so easily as many western girls would be. If one only wants casual sex, than a bar girl would be a better idea for that "pleasure".

This dividing is not the result of the way I look at Thailand or at Thailand's women, for God sake no!

And thank you for your response.

[Mali]

HI Dutch,

Yes, There are a lot of Thai women working in the Thai government. One thing that Thai is good about is that both sexes have equal chances to go to university. If you have a chance to read Bangkok Post or The Nation newspapers (online versions), you may find out more about Thailand in action.

[Bud Zumwalt]

To Dutch Vader,

It is my opinion that you have a lot of insight into how wonderful these Thai ladies are compared to the Western Ladies .. I agree 100 percent. You seemed to have been far ahead of your peers who got the with dutch ladies back home, because they could not see beyond the dike. As far as running ads on the Intenet, in America Love AOL is packed, many other sites. Thai ladies are more liberated then one may think. Not many have a computer in their rooms, but they are getting themselves out there, via the Internet Cafe, or web sites willing too post them and translate the messages. Many have are getting together with the girl in the apartment complex who has a computer. Watch out guys if you email several at one time, they all might be sitting around reading the same form letter. Lots of these divorced ladies were middle class, an example is lady X who was married to a Thai Army Major, children in college, in her early 40s, college educated, can write English, IMs me daily from her sisters in Germany now on route back to Thailand, cannot find work in Germany, she is returning to share a bed with her sister who is a school teacher and now will train to be a elder health care provider. Casual sex? Very willing, considers casual sex part of what she expects of me should we meet when I am in Thailand, she is financially ruined because she gets nothing from her ex-husband who has remarried and has more children. The list goes on, many college educated divorced women, once middle class, non bar ladies, very insulted if you ask them if they were ever, will never be bar girls, but casual sex, of course, matter a fact what you want top or bottom.

Chon,

He has been around Thailand awhile, 17 years I think he mentioned once. He is a little abrasive at times, but hey why not get it straight, no holes barred, tell it as it is, in his opinion so do not be offended Chon is a great guy. So, one takes his licks and then explains him/her self.

Mali,

Not the woman I would want to date, kind of to Americanized for me. But she has great insight into the kind of lady she once was, and knows Thai culture from the days when she grew up. But Mali things may have changed a little, I am an American, educated, had lots of opportunities here, two prior wivies, the first an East Indian from South America, still my best friend, the second a Dr. who made 6 figures, even good looking and blond, but I was miserable with her, always wanted that bigger house, in that better area. We never talk, she hates me I hate her. Give me a Thai wife anytime, compare, check over the Internet, make arrangements to meet several, decide among many or just take the first one you meet if she likes what see shes in you and you love something about her eyes, her loneliness, or in the case of Vader, she looks so helpless, and cute so I do not care if she was poor and needed to make money for survival. Good choice Dutch Vader. Personally the term bar girl does not bother me, but causal sex is like anywhere else even in Thailand. These ladies have Western dating similarities, but do not ask for your port folio up front. If you can support them they are happy riding on the back of a scooter or taking the bus, sometimes the Tuk Tuk is fine. Personally I would not want to drive my car over there. Besides my Jeep Sahara has the steering on the left.

Check my post I need some replies, email proposals.

Bud

[mrentoul]

The points that I was trying to get across to you were that you are a guest to my country. Do not come in an tell 60 mil people who have their own culture longer than some western culture to change their life style or their believes

Mali, I'm afraid you've lost me. I didn't know I was telling Thais how to behave in their own country...and I'm aware that I'm merely a guest. I preach that sermon myself.

But how this is related to the stuff that came before I have no idea.

[Butterfly]

Mali, I think you are "over-interprating" those posts and reading far more between the lines than the authors of the posts could have imagined. Do you actually understand everything you read here ? do you actually read those posts before jumping to your quick "interpretations" ?

[Mali]

Dear Butterfly,

Yes, I did read those posts that I replied to at least twice. As I said before, I am offering a woman point of view. Sometimes when men posted their opinions here, they may not aware what effect they have on female readers. Now, Please don't tell me that I am overly sensitive. I have hoped that some of the male readers might welcome a different point of view from an old educated Thai woman who has lived in both Eastern and Western societies successfully.

[Mali]

Dear KWIZ117,

Also read the topic of “Human trafficking” in this forum. Now wonder what Thai people think about girls like “Mali” working or studying in USA.

What do you think about Thai Girls live in Falang Land?

First, I am not a girl. I am a full grown woman and quite old. Young lad or should I say BOY,  please stop calling me girl.

I general I would avoid bringing attention to my personal story because it is not what I am here for. What I am here for is to exchange some ideas with other expats. However, once and a while there is a need to clarify some facts about myself. What is there to think about a woman like me who got a scholarship to study Physics in the US? I was just a regular science teacher who was lucky enough to snag a non-competitive scholarship to study Physics in a small US university. If you think there is anything wrong or amoral about it, I would welcome any comment on this topic.

My explanation is, when I read your post, I get the feeling of a Thai girl replying to defend Thai girls. Like to know what others felt about replies from Mali and Dutch Vendor [who has registered himself today]. For me, I can not see much of a difference in the way of writing and the thinking.

I am not sure to take this as a complement or an insult. Even though Dutch Vader who is a male lawyer was sometimes over generalized his opinions about Thailand, he has more or less share the some opinions with me, a Thai female. So I am not just a woman who defends other women alone here. On the other hands, I do not need to disguise as a man to voice my opinions to be considered as a serious contender. I can hold my own fort, and YES  be a woman at the same time..