Simple Plea To Find A Joint-sponsor For My Wife.

[loveacrossborders]

Hi Everyone,

I really am not sure how or where to post this on Thai Visa. My wife and I have been stuck in a pretty futile situation for almost a year. I've been hesitant to post about it on random message board, because I didn't think that anyone would be interested to read about it. But alas, I just want to give it a try .

All that we need for Natlada (my wife) is to find just one U.S citizen who meets the financial qualifications (an income slightly above the "poverty level") who's willing to joint-sponsor her for a U.S visa. Natlada and I have been (legally) married since the 8th of April last year and since then have been trying to find one U.S citizen willing to joint-sponsor her. Now we're expecting our first baby in about two and a half months (a boy!) and we're not any closer to finding a joint-sponsor for her. Natlada and I love each other very much. We're trying to do everything possible to not have to separate.

I don't meet the U.S Immigration's financial qualifications from the last three years to sponsor my wife. It might be seen as "irresponsible" to some, that for three years I didn't have a "steady 40-hour a week" job. I've spent much of the last three years traveling and volunteering in poorer countries such as Fiji, Laos, etc. Regrettably, there's nothing that can be done to change the last three years or to fix my last three tax returns so that I qualify . Nobody ever intends to meet the love of their life. Likewise, I never intended to meet the love of my life in Thailand.

The truth is that I had my first job when I was 16 years old. I just turned 24 years old (Nat is 22), I've done everything from restaurant work, freelancing "House Management" in San Francisco, to I.T engineering in California, and caregiving for kids in Seattle.

Natlada is from a middle class family in Bangkok. She doesn't drink or smoke or use any drugs. Her Mom is the head nurse at the main "police hospital" downtown and her father is manager of an upscale condominium complex. Several of Nat's aunts, uncles, and cousins have previously worked or studied in America. In fact, two of her cousins presently live in America (one in Portland, OR and the other in Newark, NJ). However, they can't help us with joint-sponsorship. They only have Green Card status themselves.

My wife is a down-to-Earth, good natured person. In fact, she's probably a lot nicer than me . Every time we walk past a poor or homeless person on the streets she's always gives them money. She's studied for three years at one of the most prestigious nursing colleges in Thailand. Her family is very close and they support each other for everything(!). When we had our official marriage ceremony here in September, over 300 (!!) of her relatives showed up (she has a lot of cousins, ).

Of coarse, none of this matters in the eyes of U.S's Immigration Department . With my friends in America, it's hard to explain about this whole sponsorship thing. None of them have even had the chance yet to meet Natlada. Which is pretty obvious considering that she's not even able to get a tourist visa for the U.S.

My family in America is not close at all . My parents divorced when I was 11. My Dad I haven't heard from in six years. My Mom was so abusive that I went into foster care for three years before turning 18. My Mom and I keep contact via e-mail these days, but she's blatantly refused to joint-sponsor Natlada. There's nothing I can do to change her mind (I've tried A LOT). I hardly know any aunts, uncles, or cousins. I'm in a unique situation, because I have no family who can help.

Please feel free to ask anyone who you know - individuals, churches, NGOs, etc. It was particularly difficult for me to spend yet another Christmas in Thailand this year. But there's no way on Earth that I was going to leave my wife and to-be son, just to return to America by myself.

All that we want is to do the "right" and "honest" thing. But it seems like the more that Natlada and I try the more we get "left behind" . Since it's still Christmas time I was hoping that perhaps someone might be understanding and sympathetic enough towards this immigration problem that they'd maybe want to help.

If only Natlada were from Japan, Saudi Arabia, Brunei, Singapore, or many other Asian countries than she could travel to the U.S on a FREE six month visa-on-arrival. Ironically, BECAUSE we're married she can't even obtain a tourist visa. U.S immigration is so paranoid that she *could* illegally overstay her visa. That would never be the case.

Earlier this year (through my Mom) Nat and I gave an immigration attorney (in Gainsville, Florida) almost a $1,000 dollars to help us sort everything out. But in the end, he couldn't do anything, except to prepare some of the paperwork for us. There's absolutely no alternative to finding sponsorship for Nat .

Thai people have been so kind and hospitable towards me during my stay in their country. It's just sad that Natlada and I can't find one US citizen willing to help to joint-sponsor. The standards in Bangkok are not unlike that of a major city in America. Of coarse, to me it's not the same as America, because America is my home.

Here are two of the most important links for any potential sponsor to read:

http://uscis.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/i-864.htm

^ The first one is the actual form for joint-sponsorship from the U.S government web-site.

http://immigration.about.com/library/blaffsupp.htm

^ The second is lots and lots of information explaining more about sponsorship.

Our life is like an open book. Natlada and I live in a suburb of Bangkok with her family (Mom, Dad, and sister). I spend most of the day working on my web-site. Nat's preparing to go back to school after the baby is born to finish her last year. We're waiting for our son to be born. That's basically our life in a nutshell right now.

We just want the same opportunity that every other American family has. Growing up in a small Florida (Ocala / Gainsville) town, I never imagined that my life would be in a position like this "dreaming to go to America" - it's absurd. But that's the kind of position that I'm in right now. Even if we can find a joint-sponsor for Nat we'll still have to wait between six to nine months for Nat to get an interview at the U.S embassy here in Bangkok. We just want to get the whole process started .

I should also add that to be a sponsor doesn't cost any money AT ALL. The only thing that's required is a copy of the last three year's tax returns and to sign the sponsorship form (which is similar to a contract). Sadly, signing that piece of paper is what scares people. To be honest with you, I feel like the "risk" associated with sponsoring Nat is practically nil or nonexistent. But I guess that *everything* in life has *some* risk attached with it.

You can find me on AIM - "applesbliss" or Yahoo Instant Messenger - "loveacrossborders". We're also just a phone call away. For us, it's only .25 a minute to call America.

Shaun & Natlada

[email protected]

We send our blessings out to those families affected by the earthquake and tsunamis .

Edited December 29, 2004 by loveacrossborders

[lopburi3]

It would seem to me that your first action should be to return and obtain employment to pay the bills rather than asking others for help. People have been known to live apart when conditions dictate. So can you.

Your timing is not good posting this after what has happened here this week so perhaps I am more sceptical than normal.

[loveacrossborders]

Dear Lopburi3 -

I've read a lot of your posts on here over the last two years, so I must admit that I have a lot of respect for the information that you normally give.

I'd like to point out that the U.S government requires to see "the last three tax returns". That means, if I went back to the U.S tomorrow, I'd have to find a job that pays $25,000 - $30,000 and live away from my wife and baby son for three years to "qualify".

All of this because we can't find one kind American (out of a population of 300 million) to sign a piece of paper? That's sad .

I am able to stay in Thailand with the visa that I currently have. I don't want my son to spend the first three years of his life without a Dad. I had to spend most of my childhood and teenage years without one .

Please understand folks, this is not a question of irresponsibility. I'm trying to do what's best for my son and wife. My family has enough money to live. The problem is that we can't find someone to joint-sponsor so that someday (even if it's 1, 3, 5, or even 10 years from now) my family will have the same opportunities as every other American family (because I'm American), or even just be able to visit! That's all we're hoping for with our future.

[lopburi3]

Please understand folks, this is not a question of irresponsibility.

And that is where I disagree with you. If you are sincere and returned to US to work I suspect you would be able to find someone to help you very easily. But you seem to have the attitude the world owes you "(because I'm American)". I do not buy that.

If you settle down in Thailand she should not have a problem getting a tourist visa for a visit to US but now, and your post seems to confirm this, you are trying to immigrate.

[rito]

In fact, two of her cousins presently live in America (one in Portland, OR and the other in Newark, NJ). However, they can't help us with joint-sponsorship. They only have Green Card status themselves.

Shaun & Natlada

[email protected]

We send our blessings out to those families affected by the earthquake and tsunamis .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

5. What is a joint sponsor?

" A joint sponsor is a person who is not the petitioner for the sponsored immigrant but who meets the citizenship, residence, and age requirements and who meets the 125 percent minimum income requirement for his or her household size. Joint sponsors are permitted when the petitioner cannot meet the income requirements or has died before all family members have immigrated. Joint sponsors must accept joint legal responsibility for supporting sponsored immigrant(s) and reimbursing the cost of any means-tested public benefit used until the sponsored immigrants naturalize, can be credited with 40 qualifying quarters of work, depart the United States permanently, or die".

I don't want to be insensitive to your situation. But I think you need to take a closer look at the above paragraph. If her cousins have "Green Cards" then that means they have Permanent Residence status. Hence they meet the requirements. You need to research the INS website it's clearly defined there.

Additionally, I would think you would get better support from family members rather total strangers. It's just not signing a piece of paper, it's also accepting financial responsibilty.

BTW, I brought my wife over on a K-1 visa, did it all myself, no lawyers (not that I have anything against lawayers). I took the time to research what I needed. Overwelming at first, but it turnout to be a piece of cake. 6 mos from start to finish. I don't know what the process time is these days, especially after 9/11...

Good luck

[loveacrossborders]

My wife's family is all here at our house now for the NYE celebration. Though to me it doesn't feel like there's much to celebrate considering that 100,000+ have just lost their lives. I have just 15 minutes to write this reply before I have to go downstairs to go "wai" everyone.

And that is where I disagree with you.  If you are sincere and returned to US to work I suspect you would be able to find someone to help you very easily.  But you seem to have the attitude the world owes you "(because I'm American)".  I do not buy that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, that's correct it's not a matter of irresponsibility. I can't imagine why anyone would want to be judgemental by taking the moral high ground to try to claim that the "responsible" action would be to go off to America by myself while I leave my wife and son behind. It's quite likely that it's my own experience speaking here, having to grow up without a family. However, leaving my wife and son behind is not a morally responsible option for me to take.

With an open heart I explained the intimate details of our immigration situation. Yes, it feels uncomfortable to post a "plea" for help. I've never had to ask another person to help me in such a way before.

If you settle down in Thailand she should not have a problem getting a tourist visa for a visit to US but now, and your post seems to confirm this, you are trying to immigrate.

How wonderful our life would be if this were true! However, my wife opportunities are limited now that she's married to an American. We can use application I-130 (Immigrant) because she is my "alien relative". However, regardless of whether or not we "settle down" in Thailand, the fact remains that for them to accept our I-130 we will have to find a qualifying sponsor, to be a joint-sponsor for her. The American immigration attorney who I hired earlier this year also confirmed that regardless of the circumstances, we still need to have a qualifying sponsor.

The rest of the process would go like this:

After using the I-130 application to apply for an immigrant visa in regards to our marriage. We could then apply for a I-129F (the "K3"). The catch-22 for us, is that for married couples, they won't accept the application for an I-129F, until after we apply for the I-130.

The typical processing times for I-130 right now is "8 - 12 months" depending on which processing center in the U.S we submit to.

The typical processing times for an I-129F right now is "about 6 months".

The only thing that a joint-sponsor would have to do is to print out the affidavit of support, make one copy each of the last three tax returns, sign the affidavit of support and the copies, then mail it to our immigration attorney or directly to us for me to sign.

Here are a few quick rhetorical questions that I whipped up, so that others can see the kind of heartache that we're experiencing in our situation:

* When my wife and I decided to marry for the sake of love, did we imagine that because of our marriage, we'd later be facing a firestorm of issues related to just being allowed to even visit America together? - Of coarse not.

* Is there anything that can be undone? Such as getting divorced and then later marrying in the U.S?

- That's a terribly dishonest way to do things. My wife and I are just trying to do the "right thing". More than likely we'd be caught anyways.

* Why doesn't Shaun just go back to America and find a sponsor?

- I can't imagine a greater way to let my family down than by leaving them. Just because I go back to America is no guarantee that I'll find a sponsor. I've never once thought that the world "owes me because I'm American".

* What's an example of "accepting financial responsibility"?

For example, if my wife were to apply for welfare in the U.S. You and I (since after all it's "joint-sponsorship") would be legally responsible for that. However, my wife will graduate from one of the best nursing schools in Thailand within one year. I don't see any problems with her finding a job in America (after she gets work authorization) to find a job at a hospital, day care center, or even care taking. Money is actually not that big of an issue for us. We have enough money to support ourselves.

* So legally would the joint-sponsor be responsible if Natlada decided to apply for welfare?

- Yes.

* Will that ever happen?

- It's not going to happen. Obviously, we'd return to Thailand long before we'd put ourselves through a crisis such as that.

If her cousins have "Green Cards" then that means they have Permanent Residence status.

Sadly, we've been told that's not true. Earlier this year I posed that question to our immigration attorney in Florida and Nat's cousin's immigration attorney in New Jersey. Both of them said that Green Card holders are not eligible to sponsor. Now if both of them are incorrect, I'd be elated, but very surprised. Unfortunately, Nat's cousin is also going through her own "process" right now and having several difficulties with that.

Kindest Regards,

Shaun & Natlada

[email protected]

[lopburi3]

It might be seen as "irresponsible" to some, that for three years I didn't have a "steady 40-hour a week" job.

Now my agreement with your first post makes me judgmental and using the moral high ground?

However, my wife opportunities are limited now that she's married to an American

Have no idea how.

my wife and I decided to marry for the sake of love

I guess the rest of us had other, ulterior reasons?

I don't see any problems with her finding a job in America

Interesting. Never a mention of you working. So my judgmental opinion comes to the conclusion that you are more interested in obtaining US employment for your wife than any other thing here.

Sorry if that is wrong: but it is how you are coming across to me.

[kenk3z]

Please take another look at the affidavit of support form, presuming its the I-134.

There are two sections on it - the earlier one is for the alien applicant, and the latter one is for the US citizen-sponsor. The form is rather confusing in this regard, as most people assume the whole form applies just to the US citizen-sponsor.

The bottom line is, if your wife has a written offer of full-time employment in the United States, that is counted in calculating "supportability". It is the two of you together who can contribute to meeting the financial requirements.

So, when she finishes her education - try to get her a job offer in the US. I have no real idea how she might do that without traveling to the US first - but I suppose it has been done.

Filing the I-134 usually takes place rather late in the process - at least I know it does for the K-1 visa. If the same is done for the K-3 visa, you may be able to get started on the visa application with the idea of satisfying the K-3 I-134 requirements by the time its filing is actually required. That might be 6-8 months out or longer.

Hope this helps - good luck to you young man. You are lucky to find such a good wife at such an early age.

kenk3z

[Ken]

.........  You are lucky to find such a good wife at such an early age. 

kenk3z

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When I first read the OP's "sob story", I was thinking "Nigerian scam". Who knows.

But I think it's time for "Shaun" to get a reality check. There's a lot of guys who are (out of country) working and supporting their Thai families. It isn't easy being away, I'm sure, but they do what they have to do. So Shaun set a goal and go for it, without "begging" for handouts from total strangers (your so called fellow Americans). I think "lopburi3" has the situation pretty well pegged.

And I also think you are lucky to find "such a good wife at such an early age", but I'm not so sure the wife is so lucky.

Edited January 7, 2005 by Ken

[daveh]

Dear Lopburi3 -

I've read a lot of your posts on here over the last two years, so I must admit that I have a lot of respect for the information that you normally give.

I'd like to point out that the U.S government requires to see "the last three tax returns". That means, if I went back to the U.S tomorrow, I'd have to find a job that pays $25,000 - $30,000 and live away from my wife and baby son for three years to "qualify".

All of this because we can't find one kind American (out of a population of 300 million) to sign a piece of paper? That's sad .

I am able to stay in Thailand with the visa that I currently have. I don't want my son to spend the first three years of his life without a Dad. I had to spend most of my childhood and teenage years without one .

Please understand folks, this is not a question of irresponsibility. I'm trying to do what's best for my son and wife. My family has enough money to live. The problem is that we can't find someone to joint-sponsor so that someday (even if it's 1, 3, 5, or even 10 years from now) my family will have the same opportunities as every other American family (because I'm American), or even just be able to visit! That's all we're hoping for with our future.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The worst case senario for a stranger as a sponsor is a few months after your wife goes to the US then gets arrested for prostitution. They see the joint sponsor as a human trafficer. They tell your wife they will let her stay if she testifies against the sponsor, so she does. The sponsor goes to prison for being a good samaritan. The risk far outways the reward.

I agree with lopburi, you are being completely irresponsible, but you are too young to really know this. If you cared about your wife and family, you would do what's best for them in the long run. And yes, long run goes well beyond three years. Instead, you hope to "win the lottery" by finding some kind soul to sponsor your wife for you.

When I decided to propose to my girlfriend, I had to make some decisions. First and foremost was, should I stay in Thailand with her, or should we move to the US? We decided it would be best to have a life together in the US. So I immediately applied for jobs in the US. I landed a great job and went to the US alone.

This is called sacrafice. I was giving up being with my fiancée in the short run in order to have a better life in the long run. This is also called responsibiliy. And this sort of sacrafice is not rare on Thai Visa. Within two weeks of getting to the States, I applied for a fiancée visa, and now her visa interview will be this month.

You have a wife and a child on the way, and as far as I can tell, you have no plans for the future. You have to take responsibilty for yourself and stop hoping someone will do it for you.

In your post you claim you pretty much stay at home all day working on your website. You should know that MOST websites don't make any money, a few make enough money to pay for hosting, and a very few actually are profitable. If you are hoping your website will be your saviour, good luck, but I won't be surprised to see a plea to find a sponsor for your wife three years from now.

What are you doing RIGHT NOW to make that $25-$30 per year you need to be a sponsor?

Also, I don't believe there is an actual requirement that you have earned enough over the last three years to have supported you, your wife, and son. They require your tax returns as proof that you are not lying to them. The government just wants to know that they will not have to take care of your wife when she arrives.

I'd bet that if you went to the US today, and found a job, and kept it for a year, you would be able to sponsor her as long as you could account for what you were doing the previous years. If you were an English teacher in Thailand for two years prior, they know you would not have been able to make enough money, but they also know you were not some drug dealer. If you were doing volunteer work and can prove it, I'd bet that would be good as well.

The best thing you could do right now is to make a plan and follow it.

Edited January 7, 2005 by daveh

[britmaveric]

One has to assume sponsorship means you actually know the person you are sponsoring... I'd have to assume immigration would check into this and deny the application based on that fact alone. Definitely isnt the right way of doing things especially if this is a major concern of yours.

[chingy_]

let me give it a shot, you go back home look for a job and start working, she and the kid will go with you under visa to the US, im pretty sure she can get a visa very easy since you are an American marrying to her, and im pretty sure they will let her and the kid stay long 1-2 year visa maybe, by than you should build up your credit to sponser her yourself.

[expatgaz]

Why not ask your family if its that simple or your friends at home.To me you just want to sponge of someone on here.Get a life, get a job and sort yourself out ######wit. Thailand is a land full of dreams , to live that dream you have to also have a grip on reality, you my friend don't. Sorry if it sounds tough but .....

[Sir Burr]

Like many of my friends, I am married to a Thai and work offshore. Am away from the missus for up to seven weeks at a time. Why can't you go back to the States for a couple of months and find a sponser there? It won't kill you to be separated for a few months, especially as it's in both your interests.

Stop bludging, grow up, be a man and sort your own problems out. Or at least try first before going cap in hand to perfect strangers.

[Erwin1011]

Can't agree more. get of you butt, start doing something constructive