Medical Council Opposed Import Of Foreign Doctors

[george]

Medical Council opposed import of foreign doctors

BANGKOK: -- The Medical Council of Thailand has opposed the Public Health Minister's plan to import foreign doctors to push Thailand's growth as a hub for quality medical services, said council secretary general, Dr Somsak Lohlekha Thursday.

"We agree with the public health minister on this policy as it could bring a lot money to the country - but we are concerned over the quality of foreign doctors, particularly from developing countries," he said.

Public Health Minister, Witthaya Kaewparadai vowed on Monday to continue the medical hub policy by bringing foreign doctors to work in private hospitals, to turn Thailand into a regional medical hub and lift tourism and the economy.

-- The Nation 2009-01-15

[taxexile]

the quality of foreign doctors, particularly from developing countries

mirror mirror , on the wall ........

[mrtoad]

Thet will still have to pass the board exam, which is in Thai, so I wouldn't expect any mass influx of foreign doctors for the time being. I do beleive though, that they should allow some foreign doctors to practice in the major hospitals, as advisors. Maybe some hospital exchage programmes would be a good start.

The quality of the doctors in the private hospitals such as BNH, Samitivej and Bumrungrad is generally excellent. The big problem is the standards elsewhere in government hospitals, small clinics etc. For many of thiose doctors, anti-biotics cure everything

[Briggsy]

There already are foreign doctors working as advisors in Bamrungrad. Their role is limited though.

Medical doctors are pretty high up the patronage system in Thailand and their status carries a lot of prestige. It is very difficult for them to be criticised let alone sued or punished for incompetence. The last thing they would want is foreign doctors spoiling their party. In addition as Mr Toad points out, there are legal obstacles to any doctor who has not passed through the Thai education system practising in Thailand. This includes Thai nationals who studied overseas from school age.

[parallaxtech]

Correct. I am a retired physician in Koh Samui and met with directors of all the private hospitals here. My offer as a volunteer or advisor was politely declined. As one doctor put it" Sir, even if you had won the Nobel Prize you would not be welcome here." I have been studying Thai (speaking, reading, and writing) in hopes of taking the licensing exam, but even if I passed it, I would most likely have to open my own clinic. The last thing a Thai doctor wants is to lose face to a farang. Also, Thai administrators are worried that the western doctor might publish information about the hospital once he/she returns to their country.

Edited January 15, 2009 by parallaxtech

[henryalleman]

Doctors in Thailand? A very tricky issue, I had some very bad experience with them, even so called specialist are far bellow standards.

I saw a few good ones in Bangkok Hospital, but in general GP's and especially the ones with a private clinic are not worth to call them doctor.

I would not even let them check my dog if I had one. The only thing they do is give you 8 or 10 different pills who make you more sick than you are already.

So its no surprise that they are afraid for competitors who are competent.

[mrtoad]

Correct. I am a retired physician in Koh Samui and met with directors of all the private hospitals here. My offer as a volunteer or advisor was politely declined. As one doctor put it" Sir, even if you had won the Nobel Prize you would not be welcome here." I have been studying Thai (speaking, reading, and writing) in hopes of taking the licensing exam, but even if I passed it, I would most likely have to open my own clinic. The last thing a Thai doctor wants is to lose face to a farang. Also, Thai administrators are worried that the western doctor might publish information about the hospital once he/she returns to their country.

Yes, you are pretty correct. There are a few Doctors working as advisors, but generally not many. BNH does have a Farang Doctor, who also has her own practice, she is board licensed, and has her own cliinc in Bangkok. I work in the health care sector, so I am used to some of the quirks thatthe professionals have, Generally, I think it will depend on where they have been educated, and also where they have worked.

On an amusing note, I had to go to Singapore a few months ago, in our group we had a classs 10 doctor, who is a government hospital director in Bangkok. He had come along, as one of the "Medical advisors", for the project that we are undertaking. His sole contribution to the very long meeting, other than some rather ridiculous commments and questions, was "I am a very a famous Doctor in Thailand". Hardly impressive, as he had made a complete fool of himself, whislt we were walking around the facilty, and had absolutely no knowledge or understanding of what the project was about. If you ask, no I didn't invite him along, my "client" wanted him to go, as, guess what he's "a famous doctor". With some subtleness, we have eased him out of the project, as he is a complete medical dinosaur, but it does reinforce Briggsy's previous point.

[Bagwan]

I no longer patronise any of the Pattaya hospitals on account of their gouging practices and the quality of the medical staff. I prefer to take my wife and family to Bumrungrad where I can choose the doctor after viewing their CV's. I will not consult with a practitioner unless they have had lengthy experience in the developed world. I tell myself that this provides some degree of professional quality.

[pothai]

Correct me if I am wrong, the 3rd stall down on the right in Khoa Sarn road sells the neccesary documents at 350 Baht for employment as a doctor. Anyone who has saved that much will of course want to defend their position and not loose it to someone that is not willing to pay for qualifications but would prefer to save money and study for them

[Naam]

I no longer patronise any of the Pattaya hospitals on account of their gouging practices and the quality of the medical staff. I prefer to take my wife and family to Bumrungrad where I can choose the doctor after viewing their CV's. I will not consult with a practitioner unless they have had lengthy experience in the developed world. I tell myself that this provides some degree of professional quality.

i [not so] humbly beg to disagree.based on my experience living and working many years in "third world countries" i found that those medics who practice there are very much qualified to diagnose the lion share of diseases and ailments correct (and often better than a doctor in a "developed" country) although they might not have their knowledge updated as far as noninvasive micro heart surgery is concerned. having said so, i admit that i recently flew to my home country instead of selecting a famous hospital in Bkk to undergo open heart surgery.

[slapout]

Naam; I agree with your basic statement concerning the ability to diagnose, its the treatment and oft times the lack thereof that is of concern to many of us. I have observed the treatment of wifes family (older members) for several years in hospitals from Fang to Chiang Mai. The former being known as (where you go to die) by locals, the latter (public) is like a short time hotel with patrons??? time with doctor/nurse not much more than 5 minutes in many cases. The private hospitals do seem much better, but the locals are noticed by their absence. Just an observation.

[geriatrickid]

Without doubt one of the over riding obstacles is the protectionist attitude of the Thai medical profession. However, there are also legitimate concerns in respect to the pool of available foreign trained and qualified physicians. Wearing a white lab coat does not a competent physician make. Here are some of the additional concerns;

1. If a physician wants to open a practice in Thailand, he or she will have to follow the same procedure as would be done in his or her home country and that is to pass the exams and demonstrate a competency in language skills so as to be able to communicate with the patient. The rules are no different in Thailand than they are in the UK, Canada, USA etc. in that regard. If one is expecting the Thai medical council to waive the rules, then the same could be said about the respective licensing bodies in western countries. It just doesn't happen. For example, in Canada there are several hundred foreign trained physicians unable to practice because they have not satisfied internship and exam qualification requirements, yet many rural communities do not have access to a physician.

2.What physician would actually want to move to Thailand and set up shop? Is it a researcher with a bonafide reason to be there or is it someone looking to start up something sketchy like a discount liposuction and cosmetic procedures clinic? In the case of MDs that have a research interest they are indeed found in Thailand and many do examine and consult on patients (in conjunction with local caregivers). There is a rotation of clinicians in and out of Thailand that specialize in tropical and infectious diseases. Last month, the I believe the CDC in had some of its people in poking and prodding people.

2. Are the physicians truly qualified? Many jurisdictions do not share medical records or complaints. For example, in the USA, a physician can have problems in one state and then resurface in another state. In Canada, a physician can be disciplined by his/her respective provincial college and then reappear in Mexico or India. (There are some cases currently going on right now where doctors censured by their college for incompetence or a breach of ethics have done just that.)

3. Experience is but one component of a competent physician. Another component is that of continuing education. A great many older physicians have lost their skills to the point that the physician can actually do more harm than good. I had a great uncle that at one time was a renowned surgeon. He kept practicing well into his 80's. The name other medical practioners in my family gave him was the "butcher". His grandson, had to threaten to file a complaint to get him to stop practicing. That's not to say that an experienced specialist or GP cannot make an important contribution. There are many rural communities in western nations that would suffer if the old doctors weren't around. It is all relative. Unfortunately, a doctor at the apex of his or her career is not going to make a move to Thailand and open a clinic because he or she loves Thailand. They just do not do it.

4. I am not insulting nor denigating the value a retired or elderly physician brings or the fact that many make an important contribution. I couldn't ask for better folks to treat the kids in my family than some of my elderly relatives. The problem that arises is that it becomes too difficult to make exceptions for the small number of such people that are in Thailand. No argument that they would be great to have around, but because of supervision, communication and administration issues, the process of allowing them to work becomes a bureaucratic nightmare. If I sliced my arm open, you bet I'd gladly go to see a doctor that had honed his/her suturing technique on thousands before me, but the it's just too difficult a process to encourage here.

Please don't judge the TMC too harshly as its position is not unreasonable.

[Shah Jahan]

just to give you guys a little perspective- that for the sake of this decree, they are not referring to "Western" doctors like from US or Europe, but rather most likely phillipinio and south asian (indian) doctors who will frequently migrate around and have various degrees of competency and education

[TJAN]

Doctors in Thailand? A very tricky issue, I had some very bad experience with them, even so called specialist are far bellow standards.

I saw a few good ones in Bangkok Hospital, but in general GP's and especially the ones with a private clinic are not worth to call them doctor.

I would not even let them check my dog if I had one. The only thing they do is give you 8 or 10 different pills who make you more sick than you are already.

So its no surprise that they are afraid for competitors who are competent.

So please stay in Belgium.

[TAWP]

Doctors in Thailand? A very tricky issue, I had some very bad experience with them, even so called specialist are far bellow standards.

I saw a few good ones in Bangkok Hospital, but in general GP's and especially the ones with a private clinic are not worth to call them doctor.

I would not even let them check my dog if I had one. The only thing they do is give you 8 or 10 different pills who make you more sick than you are already.

So its no surprise that they are afraid for competitors who are competent.

So please stay in Belgium.

For some reason I think it would be better for me and my family if you stayed in Belgium...

[henryalleman]

Doctors in Thailand? A very tricky issue, I had some very bad experience with them, even so called specialist are far bellow standards.

I saw a few good ones in Bangkok Hospital, but in general GP's and especially the ones with a private clinic are not worth to call them doctor.

I would not even let them check my dog if I had one. The only thing they do is give you 8 or 10 different pills who make you more sick than you are already.

So its no surprise that they are afraid for competitors who are competent.

So please stay in Belgium.

For some reason I think it would be better for me and my family if you stayed in Belgium...

I don't know how your family has something to do if I stay in Thailand or not, but thanks for the advise.

I give you one example out of many to prove my point.

last year my wife made a nasty fall in the baht room. We went to Vichayut hospital in BKK. The orthopedist checked my wife after being taking X ray's and a scan. he told us its was not serious and but a bandage on her wrist, and we had to come back after 10 day's to check it again. After 10 day's and another set of X-ray's the orthopedist said all was OK, even my wife had still a lot of pain. he told her that the duty of a patient was to have patience and every thing will be OK after a while.

Back in Belgium the pain had not stopped so we went to see an orthopedist in a local hospital, he looked at the wrist of my wife made a few simply tests, and saw immeadetly that some tendon was cut off, a few day's my wife was undergoing some micro surgery on her wrist and the problem was fixed.

That orthopedist detect the problem in a few minutes without X-rays, while the Orthopedist in Vichayut could not see the problem after X-Rays and an scan.

If you like I can give you a few examples, if needed from incompetence of GP's also.

[TAWP]

My comment was directed at TJAN, indicated by the fact that I quoted his post, and the reason is that by telling people to not complain about things they are telling them to accept everything that is bad. That is not a world I want my son to grow up in. I think Thailand [and many other places] can be improved.

[selftaopath]

There already are foreign doctors working as advisors in Bamrungrad. Their role is limited though.

Medical doctors are pretty high up the patronage system in Thailand and their status carries a lot of prestige. It is very difficult for them to be criticised let alone sued or punished for incompetence. The last thing they would want is foreign doctors spoiling their party. In addition as Mr Toad points out, there are legal obstacles to any doctor who has not passed through the Thai education system practising in Thailand. This includes Thai nationals who studied overseas from school age.

but we are concerned over the quality of foreign doctors, particularly from developing countries," he said.

LOLOLOL