Electric Bill Saving Device

[sapi]

i browse the internet this morning, i stumble upon this website http://www.boondee.net/

wow, they look promising but seem strange......is it legal here?? or anybody ever buy this kind of things (any brand) ??

share your thought and experience with me, the bill is kinda high lately.

thank you

[Cuban]

Been covered in depth a few months ago (DIY or Tech forums I think), the device in question reports to be a Power Factor correction device. Most domestic items that would benifit from PF correction (things with motors) have PF correction capacitors fitted during manufactor.

If you seek to save money - explore the power rating of such a device first and then see how you could safely fit the device to your electrical supply to save the cost of it's purchase.

Gimmick that is a waste of money. IMHO.

( I do wonder if new threads such as these are not just attempts to market such dangerous products, by plugging the URL? )

[Crossy]

Considering it is on the same page as a 'free electricity' device I would suggest we have a box of snake oil here.

It is likely a PF adjustment (not correction, that needs you to measure the PF first) device and will have pretty well zero effect on your bill.

EDIT The presence of this diagram on the product page suggests we are correct in saying it is a PF manipulation device

EDIT 2 Gotta love the junk this guy produces, wood and corrugated plastic for an enclosure containing mains powered equipment (with a cheap calculator stuck on the outside) and it doesn't even measure 'real power' (Watts) just 'apparent power' (Volts x Amps)

http://www.boondee.net/electric-power-saver/power-meter.html

The 'Billing Division' looks cute enough though

Edited January 22, 2009 by Crossy

[oevna]

Been covered in depth a few months ago (DIY or Tech forums I think), the device in question reports to be a Power Factor correction device. Most domestic items that would benifit from PF correction (things with motors) have PF correction capacitors fitted during manufactor.

If you seek to save money - explore the power rating of such a device first and then see how you could safely fit the device to your electrical supply to save the cost of it's purchase.

Gimmick that is a waste of money. IMHO.

( I do wonder if new threads such as these are not just attempts to market such dangerous products, by plugging the URL? )

The Wikipedia article that you linked states that, in addition to induction motors having a low power factor, so do non-linear loads, such as rectifiers, which distort the wave shape of the current drawn from the source. Devices that contain voltage rectifiers are common in households, and include cell phone chargers, laptop power supplies, and electronic equipment. It also states, "the devices for correction of power factor may be at a central substation, or spread out over a distribution system, or built into power-consuming equipment."

Cheaper electronic devices and power supplies may not have PF correction devices built-in, and Thailand may not have such devices distributed throughout its power grid. If that is the case, then an active power factor correction device might save you some money. I'm just speculating, and I haven't read the other threads on this topic. It would be interesting to see a before-and after comparison, although it might be difficult experiment to set up in your home.

[Crossy]

It is important to realise that the electricity meter measures REAL power (Watt hours) not APPARENT power (VA hours).

Mucking about with the power factor will not change the real power consumed by the load (and so will not change your meter reading).

In cases of high consumption and poor power factor the I²R losses in the cable become significant (these WILL be measured by the meter) and correcting the PF at the load can reduce these losses resulting in a reduced bill. PF correction is important to big users with lots of motors etc. (I'm talking major factories here not your average home).

[Cuban]

I remember learning about PF adjustment {thank you for the correction, :-) } at university and scribbling in the margins with glee at the discovery of such huge savings that were a new open secret. Once I had taken a few measurments (if I recall) and talked to a few older friends with much practical experiance in industry it became clear that there is no 'magic' cure that can be applied cheaply in every case.

Now if I could just find some large enough magnets I will be able to reverse the polarity of the fuel passing into the injectors and finally achieve light-speed in the truck....

[gregb]

It is important to realise that the electricity meter measures REAL power (Watt hours) not APPARENT power (VA hours).

Mucking about with the power factor will not change the real power consumed by the load (and so will not change your meter reading).

In cases of high consumption and poor power factor the I²R losses in the cable become significant (these WILL be measured by the meter) and correcting the PF at the load can reduce these losses resulting in a reduced bill. PF correction is important to big users with lots of motors etc. (I'm talking major factories here not your average home).

Actually, the residential meters in Thailand measure resistive loads. However, there are industrial meters and corresponding contracts that do charge more if you don't maintain your power factor above a specific target. The OP doesn't state the type of installation he is inquiring about, so, the answer may be that if he owns a cement factory, it could save him some baht. Putting it on a house however, is unlikely to have any benefit...unless you want to have many long, intimate conversations with the billing girl trying to get a refund.

[gregb]

Looking at it again, I don't think the device in question has anything to do with Power Factor. My guess is it's just a simple Hall effect sensor combined with a volt meter. You plug an appliance in and it tells you how much current it is drawing and the RMS voltage. You then multiply the numbers on the calculator so the mathematically challenged don't have to think.

The only way to save electricity using it is by throwing away those devices you find to be energy hogs. It looks like nothing more than a cheap Thai made Kill-A-Watt meter. Would anyone actually pay money for this? I think any references to Power Factor were nothing more than an obfuscating technique by the manufacturer to make you think you were buying something worth more than 10 baht. Very few people really understand the concept of Power Factor. Sounds like a marketing gimmick.

If people are actually buying this I really think I'm in the wrong business....

[Deke]

I've seen devices like this that supposedly reshape the current waveform by clipping the peak at some point several degrees below maximum. In theory, this would reduce the rms current and therefore the power delivered to the load. How effective they are in practice, and what effect they have on connected equipment, I have no idea.

[BigSnake]

Maybe worthy of a try. Maybe legal, buy guess is want be legal for long when the power that be in Thailand get wind that it works They will find a way to regulate it.

[Crossy]

Looking at it again, I don't think the device in question has anything to do with Power Factor. My guess is it's just a simple Hall effect sensor combined with a volt meter. You plug an appliance in and it tells you how much current it is drawing and the RMS voltage. You then multiply the numbers on the calculator so the mathematically challenged don't have to think.

The only way to save electricity using it is by throwing away those devices you find to be energy hogs. It looks like nothing more than a cheap Thai made Kill-A-Watt meter. Would anyone actually pay money for this? I think any references to Power Factor were nothing more than an obfuscating technique by the manufacturer to make you think you were buying something worth more than 10 baht. Very few people really understand the concept of Power Factor. Sounds like a marketing gimmick.

I doubt it's even a Hall device, just an AC ammeter (MC meter, a bridge and a shunt). Safe it most definately is not!

I've ordered a UK Kill-A-Watt, obviously it will need to have adaptors but it's not available in 220V with the US connectors. I've also emailed Boondee for the price of their unit, should be interesting.

EDIT This http://www.boondee.net/electric-power-saver/c4-88.html is the device referred to in the OP, almost certainly a PF modification device. They also make a unit that is almost certainly illegal, makes your meter go backwards (allegedly) http://www.boondee.net/electric-power-saver/b4-88.html again it likely screws the PF so badly that the meter reverses.

Edited January 24, 2009 by Crossy

[Pierrot]

I'm happy to see here so many people with knowledge about electricity

We have a house in the countryside with a serious problem of electricity supply. At some time the voltage can drop to 160V. The problem is with the water heater but mostly with the water pomp, we get our water from a well and in the future we would like add more pomps for irrigation. People advise us to get an electric pomp (cheaper than diesel they say) but with the above mentionned problem I'm not sure it's a good idea. To get an idea of the power of the pomp we need, the water is 400 m (distance) and 30 m (depth) from the tank.

They say we should purchase a "black box" that would solve our electricity problem. Not so sure how it works, they don't have any satisfactory explanation either. Does anybody has an idea of what they're talking about and if it's really works ?

[Crossy]

I'm happy to see here so many people with knowledge about electricity

We have a house in the countryside with a serious problem of electricity supply. At some time the voltage can drop to 160V. The problem is with the water heater but mostly with the water pomp, we get our water from a well and in the future we would like add more pomps for irrigation. People advise us to get an electric pomp (cheaper than diesel they say) but with the above mentionned problem I'm not sure it's a good idea. To get an idea of the power of the pomp we need, the water is 400 m (distance) and 30 m (depth) from the tank.

They say we should purchase a "black box" that would solve our electricity problem. Not so sure how it works, they don't have any satisfactory explanation either. Does anybody has an idea of what they're talking about and if it's really works ?

You need an AVR (Automatic Voltage Regulator), open a thread in the DIY forum here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/housing-forum-f124.html and we'll get you sorted

Edited January 24, 2009 by Crossy

[Pierrot]

I'm happy to see here so many people with knowledge about electricity

We have a house in the countryside with a serious problem of electricity supply. At some time the voltage can drop to 160V. The problem is with the water heater but mostly with the water pomp, we get our water from a well and in the future we would like add more pomps for irrigation. People advise us to get an electric pomp (cheaper than diesel they say) but with the above mentionned problem I'm not sure it's a good idea. To get an idea of the power of the pomp we need, the water is 400 m (distance) and 30 m (depth) from the tank.

They say we should purchase a "black box" that would solve our electricity problem. Not so sure how it works, they don't have any satisfactory explanation either. Does anybody has an idea of what they're talking about and if it's really works ?

You need an AVR (Automatic Voltage Regulator), open a thread in the DIY forum here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/housing-forum-f124.html and we'll get you sorted

Thanks for the advise. Done !

[stellaf]

Hi,

I think they are fraud and we shouldn't believe before satisfaction in tale shopping or such kind of site. I think someone can cheat us by using such kind of names. We have to be careful.

Stella

[Crossy]

I've ordered a UK Kill-A-Watt, obviously it will need to have adaptors but it's not available in 220V with the US connectors. I've also emailed Boondee for the price of their unit, should be interesting.

The Boondee power measuring unit is 1200 Baht.

A UK Kill-A-Watt is 20 Quid (960 Baht at todays cr@p exchange rate) http://www.reuk.co.uk/Buy-UK-Power-Meter.htm even considering getting it sent from the UK, I think I know whch unit I would buy bought.