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Uk Visa 2x Refused!


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Hello,

Me and my thai boyfriend ended up in a quite difficult visa situation with the UK embassy despite the fact that we always have told them nothing but the truth. Here is the situation we are currently in:

I am from Austria, 30 years old and I came to Thailand for a career break - I met my current boyfriend and we fell in love and travelled together in South East Asia (Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam) for about 4 months and then after that I stayed until 10th of november 2008 with his family in Ban Fa which is a bit outside of Bangkok. Altogether I stayed in South East Asia with my boyfriend over 7 months (I came to Thailand 23.03.08 and left 10.11.08). I decided that I want to go back to work in Europe. I am quite experienced and have worked in some european countries already - furthermore i have a degree and a very good professional CV. It is not difficult for me to find a well paid job and I got soon a job offer from a company with offices in London. As I liked this offer, the company and overall also the UK I decided to accept this offer and go from Thailand directly to the UK and take my boyfriend with me. Please note I never was exposed to embassies and visa problems before in my life and I thought we just bring all information requested and tell the truth and we get the visa. I was terribly wrong...

First application: category tourist visa

First we applied for a tourist visa and i was the sponsor. As I am austrian and my country part of the european union I have the right to life and work in the UK without any paperwork needed. So I can be my boyfriends sponsor. We had a private health insurance for my boyfriend in place, I sent them my signed working contract that clearly stated that i have a good salary to take care about myself and my boyfriend, a letter of my austrian bank telling about my savings and funds along with a reference that I am a financially trustworthy person, my personal CV that states that I am a highly skilled individual, Bookings of hotel (as we planned to start for searching for flat once the UK), sponsorship letter that explained the whole situation, bank statements of my boyfriend showing 40.000 baht on his bank account, my own bank statements for one year, my passport copy, copy of my boyfriends ID card, flight reservation for my boyfriend (incl. return ticket).

-> we got refused (big shock) - the reason: we could not proof that our relationship is genuine. Here we made a mistake as I was during the first application in Bangkok I went with my boyfriend to the application center and thought I can talk to them and give reference in person. At the application center we found out that I cannot enter with him and the employees there also did not tell my boyfriend go home and get some pictures to proof your relationship otherwise it will get refused. Furthermore - it was my idea - I wrote in the sponsor letter that i want my boyfriend to visit a language school... We found out that this is not possible with a visiting visa - this was again my mistake as i just thought what is wrong with that when he is using his time learning English in a professional language course. Also we applied for 6 months as this is the maximum duration that they give for a visiting visa. So the main reason they refused was that we forgot to put pictures to proof our relationship and also they didnt like the fact that we said that my boyfriend would like to do a language course there.

Second application: category visiting visa

After the first application we just thought alright we just forgot some things - especially the fact that we did not proof our relationship properly was mainly due to the fact that we dont doubt our relationship ourselves so never could think that others may doubt it. That may sound naive but if you dont plan any illegal things you dont think this could happen as you are completely honest. So we put all the pictures we had (from 4 different countries where we travelled to) including my passport stamps that are exactly identical with my boyfriend ones as we travelled together. I already was in England by that time - and we also added some emails. We also wrote that we did not know about the fact that on a visiting visa you cannot do a private language course and excused ourselves for that.

-> we got refused again (!!!!). They said that still they are not sure about our relationship furthermore that they dont believe that he wont do a language course in the UK and overall that he has no family ties and no job in Thailand so he wont come back. Also they requested previous passport copies. We said in our application that he had another passport before but we dont have the passport anymore. That now they pointed out as well. Overall you just could see they dont want to give visa no matter how much papers we bring...

I was quite shocked to be honest because we never intended to commit any crime or violate UK laws! I consulted shortly in UK a lawyer for immigration and he told me that I have to be in the UK for 6 months before i can get somebody on a visiting visa to the UK and also my boyfriend needs to have a job. And even if I would marry him this could mean he wont get a spousal visa... Another lawyer told me that UK is always refusing visiting visas when they suspect that a couple would live together in the UK. I am confused but one thing I can say we never lied and were always honest. Yes my boyfriend is without work and we said that! But I have enough money so were is the problem?

Anyway so we said alright lets take it slowly and you prepare for taking some courses in the meantime and to proof that you come back we try to get a visiting visa over christmas/new year to austria. Additionally i really wanted to see him and show him my country!!! Currently my boyfriend has an entrance exam for the Bangkok Oriental thai chef programme which lasts 3 months so he wont be able to come to UK before June...

As I am not resident of my country anymore my sister guaranteed as a sponsor for my boyfriend so that he gets a Schengen visa to Austria - reason was that we want to see each other over Christmas and that I want to introduce him to my family we wanted a visa from 19.12 - 05.01. I took holiday from work we applied gave them ALL papers needed including complete guarantee of my sister (she did that in front of the austrian police authorities, a guarantee if my boyfriend does not go back she is paying for everything). We explained austrian embassy the whole case... Result we did not get visa - just a letter asking for further information as they suspect my boyfriend does not come back from austria and causes costs to the austrian state. It is nearly unbelievable even my own countrie acting so terrible. We have brought all papers and I could not see my boyfriend in Austria - took holidays and they tell us now after the time we wanted the visa for already has gone by that they want more information before they finally come to a decision if they give a visa or not. Well it is too late anyway but now we have to get that fixed to avoid a third refused stamp in my boyfriends passport!!!! Additionally if I would have known that they make problems too I would have spend my holidays in Thailand!

As you can understand we are extremely confused, demotivated and insecure. I want to consult a immigration specialist to make sure the next steps are perfect. Also I plan to marry my boyfriend in April when i go to Bangkok but I am not sure possibly british authorities keep their stance towards us... I really would like to get some feedback on my case as I personally think we get treaten very unfair... Yes i have more money as my boyfriend and yes I have a degree and he does not but finally that is my private decision. That we wont fall back on UK benefits I can guarantee as I always could take care very well about myself.

I feel really discrimanted and I need to find answers and ways that my boyfriend gets the visas needed so that he can live with me. The best would be of course if we get a UK visa if not and we are married we also should be able to get a visa for Austria and then in Austria apply for EU family member visa for my boyfriend then he can go to the UK anyway if my own country makes problems the last chance i have is to relocate to Germany (I am German countrymanager but based in UK and could go there workwise) and try to get visa for this country...

I really need some advise, some ideas some thoughts as soon as possible as I want to organise things properly and I really miss my boyfriend and dont enjoy it to be now alone here in the UK!!!

Lorelei30

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Sorry to hear about your problems. I think mostly they stem from you not doing enough research about visas and being a little naïve that because you, a westerner have no problems getting visas, everyone else has the same easy ride. This is certainly not the case for people from countries like Thailand. Before you applied for the first visa you should have done some research on the internet as you are now. Visa's are not just handed out like sweets to residents of third world countries. It may not be right, but every application is judged whether the person will remain in the western country past their visa dates.

Your first application was weighed towards you proving you had a job offer, a good background and finances. It should really be weighed towards proof that you know have known this person for some while and that after he has visited the country he will definitely return to Thailand. This is the major factor in UK visit visa applications. You have to look at it through embassy eyes. Every visit visa application is seen as a person who will potentially overstay their visa and then be illegally resident in the UK. Proof to counter this is needed that he will return to Thailand. This can be in the form of land ownership, very close family ties, significant financial assets (Not just a large lump sum deposited before the application and then taken out again), a job or educational course that he has to return to. Basically you have to persuade the officer assessing your application that this person is definitely going to return to Thailand as they have too much to give up.

Studying on a visit visa is a definite no. If you intend to study, then a student visa needs to be applied for. It's completely seperate. A visit visa is just that, a visa to allow a short visit to the UK. This is the other issue you have probably been marked down for... This is his first visa, don't say you are applying for a 6 month visa and he intends to stay the full 6 months. On a first visa say the visit is for 2 or 3 months and make sure that he sticks to this. If he gets a visit visa based on a 2 or 3 month visit and then returns to Thailand after this, you now have the start of a visa history for him and it will be a little easier for him to get future visas and after building up a bit more visa history he may be considered for longer visit visas. If he can get a visa and prove he can comply with the terms, this shows the officer that he has an application from someone that can be trusted to some degree.

If you are not confident of getting a good application together yourself, then by all means employ a visa agency, but make sure you get a good one. Thailand has many different agencies that are not registered and will charge you excessive amounts for applications not much better than you could do yourself. There are some links to decent agencies at the top of this page.

Good luck in your future applications. Coming to this forum is probably the best step you have made so far to getting a visa.

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You are working in the UK now?

If you get married, your boyfriend/husband will have the option of applying for an EEA Family Permit to accompany you to the UK. There is an important distinction, because the application will be made under European Law, not under UK Immigration Rules.

If, as a European National, you are "exercising your treaty rights" by living and working in the UK, you have the right to bring your husband here. You don't have to spend time together in your own country to benefit from this law. The application would be free of charge, and the only reason it could be refused is that it is proved to be based on a marriage of convenience.

It is of course possible that the British visa officer will point to the previous refusals and say that these "prove" that his only motive in marrying you is to circumvent UK law. You of course can argue that your relationship has endured these setbacks and it's nonsense to suggest that a professional person with your resources has any motive other than love to get married. But you must always remember that it is the intentions of the applicant, not the sponsor which are what count most.

In this situation I think you do need good professional advice to present a successful application. I would sugges that you conact Davies Khan whose link is on this page, as he has a wealth of experience in dealing with the Bangkok Embassy, and also of how they handle EEA applications.

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Hello,

Me and my thai boyfriend ended up in a quite difficult visa situation with the UK embassy despite the fact that we always have told them nothing but the truth. Here is the situation we are currently in:

I am from Austria, 30 years old and I came to Thailand for a career break - I met my current boyfriend and we fell in love and travelled together in South East Asia (Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam) for about 4 months and then after that I stayed until 10th of november 2008 with his family in Ban Fa which is a bit outside of Bangkok. Altogether I stayed in South East Asia with my boyfriend over 7 months (I came to Thailand 23.03.08 and left 10.11.08). I decided that I want to go back to work in Europe. I am quite experienced and have worked in some european countries already - furthermore i have a degree and a very good professional CV. It is not difficult for me to find a well paid job and I got soon a job offer from a company with offices in London. As I liked this offer, the company and overall also the UK I decided to accept this offer and go from Thailand directly to the UK and take my boyfriend with me. Please note I never was exposed to embassies and visa problems before in my life and I thought we just bring all information requested and tell the truth and we get the visa. I was terribly wrong...

First application: category tourist visa

First we applied for a tourist visa and i was the sponsor. As I am austrian and my country part of the european union I have the right to life and work in the UK without any paperwork needed. So I can be my boyfriends sponsor. We had a private health insurance for my boyfriend in place, I sent them my signed working contract that clearly stated that i have a good salary to take care about myself and my boyfriend, a letter of my austrian bank telling about my savings and funds along with a reference that I am a financially trustworthy person, my personal CV that states that I am a highly skilled individual, Bookings of hotel (as we planned to start for searching for flat once the UK), sponsorship letter that explained the whole situation, bank statements of my boyfriend showing 40.000 baht on his bank account, my own bank statements for one year, my passport copy, copy of my boyfriends ID card, flight reservation for my boyfriend (incl. return ticket).

-> we got refused (big shock) - the reason: we could not proof that our relationship is genuine. Here we made a mistake as I was during the first application in Bangkok I went with my boyfriend to the application center and thought I can talk to them and give reference in person. At the application center we found out that I cannot enter with him and the employees there also did not tell my boyfriend go home and get some pictures to proof your relationship otherwise it will get refused. Furthermore - it was my idea - I wrote in the sponsor letter that i want my boyfriend to visit a language school... We found out that this is not possible with a visiting visa - this was again my mistake as i just thought what is wrong with that when he is using his time learning English in a professional language course. Also we applied for 6 months as this is the maximum duration that they give for a visiting visa. So the main reason they refused was that we forgot to put pictures to proof our relationship and also they didnt like the fact that we said that my boyfriend would like to do a language course there.

Second application: category visiting visa

After the first application we just thought alright we just forgot some things - especially the fact that we did not proof our relationship properly was mainly due to the fact that we dont doubt our relationship ourselves so never could think that others may doubt it. That may sound naive but if you dont plan any illegal things you dont think this could happen as you are completely honest. So we put all the pictures we had (from 4 different countries where we travelled to) including my passport stamps that are exactly identical with my boyfriend ones as we travelled together. I already was in England by that time - and we also added some emails. We also wrote that we did not know about the fact that on a visiting visa you cannot do a private language course and excused ourselves for that.

-> we got refused again (!!!!). They said that still they are not sure about our relationship furthermore that they dont believe that he wont do a language course in the UK and overall that he has no family ties and no job in Thailand so he wont come back. Also they requested previous passport copies. We said in our application that he had another passport before but we dont have the passport anymore. That now they pointed out as well. Overall you just could see they dont want to give visa no matter how much papers we bring...

I was quite shocked to be honest because we never intended to commit any crime or violate UK laws! I consulted shortly in UK a lawyer for immigration and he told me that I have to be in the UK for 6 months before i can get somebody on a visiting visa to the UK and also my boyfriend needs to have a job. And even if I would marry him this could mean he wont get a spousal visa... Another lawyer told me that UK is always refusing visiting visas when they suspect that a couple would live together in the UK. I am confused but one thing I can say we never lied and were always honest. Yes my boyfriend is without work and we said that! But I have enough money so were is the problem?

Anyway so we said alright lets take it slowly and you prepare for taking some courses in the meantime and to proof that you come back we try to get a visiting visa over christmas/new year to austria. Additionally i really wanted to see him and show him my country!!! Currently my boyfriend has an entrance exam for the Bangkok Oriental thai chef programme which lasts 3 months so he wont be able to come to UK before June...

As I am not resident of my country anymore my sister guaranteed as a sponsor for my boyfriend so that he gets a Schengen visa to Austria - reason was that we want to see each other over Christmas and that I want to introduce him to my family we wanted a visa from 19.12 - 05.01. I took holiday from work we applied gave them ALL papers needed including complete guarantee of my sister (she did that in front of the austrian police authorities, a guarantee if my boyfriend does not go back she is paying for everything). We explained austrian embassy the whole case... Result we did not get visa - just a letter asking for further information as they suspect my boyfriend does not come back from austria and causes costs to the austrian state. It is nearly unbelievable even my own countrie acting so terrible. We have brought all papers and I could not see my boyfriend in Austria - took holidays and they tell us now after the time we wanted the visa for already has gone by that they want more information before they finally come to a decision if they give a visa or not. Well it is too late anyway but now we have to get that fixed to avoid a third refused stamp in my boyfriends passport!!!! Additionally if I would have known that they make problems too I would have spend my holidays in Thailand!

As you can understand we are extremely confused, demotivated and insecure. I want to consult a immigration specialist to make sure the next steps are perfect. Also I plan to marry my boyfriend in April when i go to Bangkok but I am not sure possibly british authorities keep their stance towards us... I really would like to get some feedback on my case as I personally think we get treaten very unfair... Yes i have more money as my boyfriend and yes I have a degree and he does not but finally that is my private decision. That we wont fall back on UK benefits I can guarantee as I always could take care very well about myself.

I feel really discrimanted and I need to find answers and ways that my boyfriend gets the visas needed so that he can live with me. The best would be of course if we get a UK visa if not and we are married we also should be able to get a visa for Austria and then in Austria apply for EU family member visa for my boyfriend then he can go to the UK anyway if my own country makes problems the last chance i have is to relocate to Germany (I am German countrymanager but based in UK and could go there workwise) and try to get visa for this country...

I really need some advise, some ideas some thoughts as soon as possible as I want to organise things properly and I really miss my boyfriend and dont enjoy it to be now alone here in the UK!!!

Lorelei30

Sorry about your tight situation. You are not the first. Take heart.

I'm wondering why you wouldn't get a good job in this beautiful country and live happily ever after with your boyfriend.....

Marry your boyfriend as soon as he steps into Europe. ('',) Your chances of maintaining him there would have been higher.

As it is, your boyfriend doesn't have favourable qualifications to be productive in the UK and this could be a major setback especially considering he is male....

Just my advice. All the best.

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As it is, your boyfriend doesn't have favourable qualifications to be productive in the UK and this could be a major setback especially considering he is male....

But if her boyfriend were to be female then...........?

Yes, that would be better. :o

The OP is being startingly naive but she isn't the first I suppose.

Frankly, given the adverse history to date I would have thought any further visit visa application to any other EU country would be equally doomed.

She has 2 choices if being parted from her loved one is too much to bear. Either she returns to Thailand to cohabit with the chap in a relationship akin to marriage for 2 years and then submits an application for an EEA family permit on the basis of that partnership or she returns to Thailand and marries him and then immediately submits an EEA family permit.

Who said love's path was easy.

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Sorry to hear about your problems. I think mostly they stem from you not doing enough research about visas and being a little naïve that because you, a westerner have no problems getting visas, everyone else has the same easy ride. This is certainly not the case for people from countries like Thailand. Before you applied for the first visa you should have done some research on the internet as you are now. Visa's are not just handed out like sweets to residents of third world countries. It may not be right, but every application is judged whether the person will remain in the western country past their visa dates.

Your first application was weighed towards you proving you had a job offer, a good background and finances. It should really be weighed towards proof that you know have known this person for some while and that after he has visited the country he will definitely return to Thailand. This is the major factor in UK visit visa applications. You have to look at it through embassy eyes. Every visit visa application is seen as a person who will potentially overstay their visa and then be illegally resident in the UK. Proof to counter this is needed that he will return to Thailand. This can be in the form of land ownership, very close family ties, significant financial assets (Not just a large lump sum deposited before the application and then taken out again), a job or educational course that he has to return to. Basically you have to persuade the officer assessing your application that this person is definitely going to return to Thailand as they have too much to give up.

Studying on a visit visa is a definite no. If you intend to study, then a student visa needs to be applied for. It's completely seperate. A visit visa is just that, a visa to allow a short visit to the UK. This is the other issue you have probably been marked down for... This is his first visa, don't say you are applying for a 6 month visa and he intends to stay the full 6 months. On a first visa say the visit is for 2 or 3 months and make sure that he sticks to this. If he gets a visit visa based on a 2 or 3 month visit and then returns to Thailand after this, you now have the start of a visa history for him and it will be a little easier for him to get future visas and after building up a bit more visa history he may be considered for longer visit visas. If he can get a visa and prove he can comply with the terms, this shows the officer that he has an application from someone that can be trusted to some degree.

If you are not confident of getting a good application together yourself, then by all means employ a visa agency, but make sure you get a good one. Thailand has many different agencies that are not registered and will charge you excessive amounts for applications not much better than you could do yourself. There are some links to decent agencies at the top of this page.

Good luck in your future applications. Coming to this forum is probably the best step you have made so far to getting a visa.

Hello Charlie,

Yes I agree with you that i was by far too naive and this mainly because I never had any visa issues myself. My boyfriend warned me and told me it is difficult with UK and US embassies. He never got a refusal before because he never applied but heard from other thais that it can be a pain. I told him well I have a good job i am and always was a good citizen and i take care about that. I simply overestimated myself and the sad thing is that my boyfriend has the two refused stamps in his passport and is the one that has now problems. I really thank you for your nice words as some understanding makes things easier - i will consult a good lawyer. I just have to make sure that I find the right one and coordinate all next steps to make no more mistakes. He has a house but it is in the process of getting written in his name as it belonged to his mother before and this takes some time. Also as I wrote he is starting studies and on monday we know if he got accepted but we have a good feeling. Overall i think we can fix it as we never lied and our relationship is very serious despite the fact that for some westerners it might look weird as we are different :-). I think the main mistake was me underestimating this issue and thinking i can fix because all ok anyway we dont lie...

regards

Lorelei30

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You are working in the UK now?

If you get married, your boyfriend/husband will have the option of applying for an EEA Family Permit to accompany you to the UK. There is an important distinction, because the application will be made under European Law, not under UK Immigration Rules.

If, as a European National, you are "exercising your treaty rights" by living and working in the UK, you have the right to bring your husband here. You don't have to spend time together in your own country to benefit from this law. The application would be free of charge, and the only reason it could be refused is that it is proved to be based on a marriage of convenience.

It is of course possible that the British visa officer will point to the previous refusals and say that these "prove" that his only motive in marrying you is to circumvent UK law. You of course can argue that your relationship has endured these setbacks and it's nonsense to suggest that a professional person with your resources has any motive other than love to get married. But you must always remember that it is the intentions of the applicant, not the sponsor which are what count most.

In this situation I think you do need good professional advice to present a successful application. I would sugges that you conact Davies Khan whose link is on this page, as he has a wealth of experience in dealing with the Bangkok Embassy, and also of how they handle EEA applications.

Hi,

Yes i work in the UK right now. My boyfriend will start a course soon so before beginning of june he wouldnt be able to come anyway. Also until then the house that is currently under his mothers name will be under his. He is not exactly poor - actually he is middle class. Also I dont intend to live all my life in the UK - yeah i have a job currently there but I plan after 2-3 years to go to another european country to work as i like to change my residence. If i would have gotten a job in spain i would have applied for spain it just happened that my job offer came from a british company...

I will get in touch with Davies Khan! Thanks for your nice words!

Lorelei30

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Hello,

Me and my thai boyfriend ended up in a quite difficult visa situation with the UK embassy despite the fact that we always have told them nothing but the truth. Here is the situation we are currently in:

I am from Austria, 30 years old and I came to Thailand for a career break - I met my current boyfriend and we fell in love and travelled together in South East Asia (Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam) for about 4 months and then after that I stayed until 10th of november 2008 with his family in Ban Fa which is a bit outside of Bangkok. Altogether I stayed in South East Asia with my boyfriend over 7 months (I came to Thailand 23.03.08 and left 10.11.08). I decided that I want to go back to work in Europe. I am quite experienced and have worked in some european countries already - furthermore i have a degree and a very good professional CV. It is not difficult for me to find a well paid job and I got soon a job offer from a company with offices in London. As I liked this offer, the company and overall also the UK I decided to accept this offer and go from Thailand directly to the UK and take my boyfriend with me. Please note I never was exposed to embassies and visa problems before in my life and I thought we just bring all information requested and tell the truth and we get the visa. I was terribly wrong...

First application: category tourist visa

First we applied for a tourist visa and i was the sponsor. As I am austrian and my country part of the european union I have the right to life and work in the UK without any paperwork needed. So I can be my boyfriends sponsor. We had a private health insurance for my boyfriend in place, I sent them my signed working contract that clearly stated that i have a good salary to take care about myself and my boyfriend, a letter of my austrian bank telling about my savings and funds along with a reference that I am a financially trustworthy person, my personal CV that states that I am a highly skilled individual, Bookings of hotel (as we planned to start for searching for flat once the UK), sponsorship letter that explained the whole situation, bank statements of my boyfriend showing 40.000 baht on his bank account, my own bank statements for one year, my passport copy, copy of my boyfriends ID card, flight reservation for my boyfriend (incl. return ticket).

-> we got refused (big shock) - the reason: we could not proof that our relationship is genuine. Here we made a mistake as I was during the first application in Bangkok I went with my boyfriend to the application center and thought I can talk to them and give reference in person. At the application center we found out that I cannot enter with him and the employees there also did not tell my boyfriend go home and get some pictures to proof your relationship otherwise it will get refused. Furthermore - it was my idea - I wrote in the sponsor letter that i want my boyfriend to visit a language school... We found out that this is not possible with a visiting visa - this was again my mistake as i just thought what is wrong with that when he is using his time learning English in a professional language course. Also we applied for 6 months as this is the maximum duration that they give for a visiting visa. So the main reason they refused was that we forgot to put pictures to proof our relationship and also they didnt like the fact that we said that my boyfriend would like to do a language course there.

Second application: category visiting visa

After the first application we just thought alright we just forgot some things - especially the fact that we did not proof our relationship properly was mainly due to the fact that we dont doubt our relationship ourselves so never could think that others may doubt it. That may sound naive but if you dont plan any illegal things you dont think this could happen as you are completely honest. So we put all the pictures we had (from 4 different countries where we travelled to) including my passport stamps that are exactly identical with my boyfriend ones as we travelled together. I already was in England by that time - and we also added some emails. We also wrote that we did not know about the fact that on a visiting visa you cannot do a private language course and excused ourselves for that.

-> we got refused again (!!!!). They said that still they are not sure about our relationship furthermore that they dont believe that he wont do a language course in the UK and overall that he has no family ties and no job in Thailand so he wont come back. Also they requested previous passport copies. We said in our application that he had another passport before but we dont have the passport anymore. That now they pointed out as well. Overall you just could see they dont want to give visa no matter how much papers we bring...

I was quite shocked to be honest because we never intended to commit any crime or violate UK laws! I consulted shortly in UK a lawyer for immigration and he told me that I have to be in the UK for 6 months before i can get somebody on a visiting visa to the UK and also my boyfriend needs to have a job. And even if I would marry him this could mean he wont get a spousal visa... Another lawyer told me that UK is always refusing visiting visas when they suspect that a couple would live together in the UK. I am confused but one thing I can say we never lied and were always honest. Yes my boyfriend is without work and we said that! But I have enough money so were is the problem?

Anyway so we said alright lets take it slowly and you prepare for taking some courses in the meantime and to proof that you come back we try to get a visiting visa over christmas/new year to austria. Additionally i really wanted to see him and show him my country!!! Currently my boyfriend has an entrance exam for the Bangkok Oriental thai chef programme which lasts 3 months so he wont be able to come to UK before June...

As I am not resident of my country anymore my sister guaranteed as a sponsor for my boyfriend so that he gets a Schengen visa to Austria - reason was that we want to see each other over Christmas and that I want to introduce him to my family we wanted a visa from 19.12 - 05.01. I took holiday from work we applied gave them ALL papers needed including complete guarantee of my sister (she did that in front of the austrian police authorities, a guarantee if my boyfriend does not go back she is paying for everything). We explained austrian embassy the whole case... Result we did not get visa - just a letter asking for further information as they suspect my boyfriend does not come back from austria and causes costs to the austrian state. It is nearly unbelievable even my own countrie acting so terrible. We have brought all papers and I could not see my boyfriend in Austria - took holidays and they tell us now after the time we wanted the visa for already has gone by that they want more information before they finally come to a decision if they give a visa or not. Well it is too late anyway but now we have to get that fixed to avoid a third refused stamp in my boyfriends passport!!!! Additionally if I would have known that they make problems too I would have spend my holidays in Thailand!

As you can understand we are extremely confused, demotivated and insecure. I want to consult a immigration specialist to make sure the next steps are perfect. Also I plan to marry my boyfriend in April when i go to Bangkok but I am not sure possibly british authorities keep their stance towards us... I really would like to get some feedback on my case as I personally think we get treaten very unfair... Yes i have more money as my boyfriend and yes I have a degree and he does not but finally that is my private decision. That we wont fall back on UK benefits I can guarantee as I always could take care very well about myself.

I feel really discrimanted and I need to find answers and ways that my boyfriend gets the visas needed so that he can live with me. The best would be of course if we get a UK visa if not and we are married we also should be able to get a visa for Austria and then in Austria apply for EU family member visa for my boyfriend then he can go to the UK anyway if my own country makes problems the last chance i have is to relocate to Germany (I am German countrymanager but based in UK and could go there workwise) and try to get visa for this country...

I really need some advise, some ideas some thoughts as soon as possible as I want to organise things properly and I really miss my boyfriend and dont enjoy it to be now alone here in the UK!!!

Lorelei30

Sorry about your tight situation. You are not the first. Take heart.

I'm wondering why you wouldn't get a good job in this beautiful country and live happily ever after with your boyfriend.....

Marry your boyfriend as soon as he steps into Europe. ('',) Your chances of maintaining him there would have been higher.

As it is, your boyfriend doesn't have favourable qualifications to be productive in the UK and this could be a major setback especially considering he is male....

Just my advice. All the best.

Hi,

Well my skills are in marketing and i dont speak thai the only thing i could do in thailand is to be an english teacher. My boyfriend has finished technical high school, and worked in various jobs as he could not get anything in his field. He has all wat po certificates and will start now with the oriental chef programme. But sure his qualificationd could be better - but we do our best to improve things as good as we can already. I regard myself as an emancipated woman - I earn more so what? How many men earn more and support their girlfriends/wifes? I have no problem with that, even european men would have difficulties to come up to my salary level... that may sound arrogant but it is the case and if I would like to have a carreer freak that earns heaps of money i could have i am not that ugly but i dont because i spend already enough time with working shit and need somebody that is balancing me... :-). Anyway thanks for your nice words and yeah you are right the fact that i am a woman wanting to get a man from a developping country to europe is certainly more uncomman than when men get their thai girlfriends and wifes over to europe...

Lorelei30

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As it is, your boyfriend doesn't have favourable qualifications to be productive in the UK and this could be a major setback especially considering he is male....

But if her boyfriend were to be female then...........?

Yes, that would be better. :o

The OP is being startingly naive but she isn't the first I suppose.

Frankly, given the adverse history to date I would have thought any further visit visa application to any other EU country would be equally doomed.

She has 2 choices if being parted from her loved one is too much to bear. Either she returns to Thailand to cohabit with the chap in a relationship akin to marriage for 2 years and then submits an application for an EEA family permit on the basis of that partnership or she returns to Thailand and marries him and then immediately submits an EEA family permit.

Who said love's path was easy.

Hi,

Yes i know i was naive - but then i cant change it now and also we did not lie or make anything up so i guess we can fix it. I will marry him i plan to go over in April. And i also get a lawyer involved. Thanks for this EEA input i guess we have the solution already i just need to make sure it gets executed well with the right lawyer.

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Sorry to hear about your problems. I think mostly they stem from you not doing enough research about visas and being a little naïve that because you, a westerner have no problems getting visas, everyone else has the same easy ride. This is certainly not the case for people from countries like Thailand. Before you applied for the first visa you should have done some research on the internet as you are now. Visa's are not just handed out like sweets to residents of third world countries. It may not be right, but every application is judged whether the person will remain in the western country past their visa dates.

Your first application was weighed towards you proving you had a job offer, a good background and finances. It should really be weighed towards proof that you know have known this person for some while and that after he has visited the country he will definitely return to Thailand. This is the major factor in UK visit visa applications. You have to look at it through embassy eyes. Every visit visa application is seen as a person who will potentially overstay their visa and then be illegally resident in the UK. Proof to counter this is needed that he will return to Thailand. This can be in the form of land ownership, very close family ties, significant financial assets (Not just a large lump sum deposited before the application and then taken out again), a job or educational course that he has to return to. Basically you have to persuade the officer assessing your application that this person is definitely going to return to Thailand as they have too much to give up.

Studying on a visit visa is a definite no. If you intend to study, then a student visa needs to be applied for. It's completely seperate. A visit visa is just that, a visa to allow a short visit to the UK. This is the other issue you have probably been marked down for... This is his first visa, don't say you are applying for a 6 month visa and he intends to stay the full 6 months. On a first visa say the visit is for 2 or 3 months and make sure that he sticks to this. If he gets a visit visa based on a 2 or 3 month visit and then returns to Thailand after this, you now have the start of a visa history for him and it will be a little easier for him to get future visas and after building up a bit more visa history he may be considered for longer visit visas. If he can get a visa and prove he can comply with the terms, this shows the officer that he has an application from someone that can be trusted to some degree.

If you are not confident of getting a good application together yourself, then by all means employ a visa agency, but make sure you get a good one. Thailand has many different agencies that are not registered and will charge you excessive amounts for applications not much better than you could do yourself. There are some links to decent agencies at the top of this page.

Good luck in your future applications. Coming to this forum is probably the best step you have made so far to getting a visa.

Hello Charlie,

Yes I agree with you that i was by far too naive and this mainly because I never had any visa issues myself. My boyfriend warned me and told me it is difficult with UK and US embassies. He never got a refusal before because he never applied but heard from other thais that it can be a pain. I told him well I have a good job i am and always was a good citizen and i take care about that. I simply overestimated myself and the sad thing is that my boyfriend has the two refused stamps in his passport and is the one that has now problems. I really thank you for your nice words as some understanding makes things easier - i will consult a good lawyer. I just have to make sure that I find the right one and coordinate all next steps to make no more mistakes. He has a house but it is in the process of getting written in his name as it belonged to his mother before and this takes some time. Also as I wrote he is starting studies and on monday we know if he got accepted but we have a good feeling. Overall i think we can fix it as we never lied and our relationship is very serious despite the fact that for some westerners it might look weird as we are different :-). I think the main mistake was me underestimating this issue and thinking i can fix because all ok anyway we dont lie...

regards

Lorelei30

Hi,

As far as I can see it, if you provide all the proof you have so far (relationship proof, your finances, details of your accomodation etc), but wait until he has got the acceptance to the course and the house in his name, those two additional items would be strong factors in his favour for having reasons to return. Also, make sure that you don't go for the whole 6 months. Better to say you want 2 or 3 months, get the visa and have a few months together than go for 6 months and not get it.

CB

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You are working in the UK now?

If you get married, your boyfriend/husband will have the option of applying for an EEA Family Permit to accompany you to the UK. There is an important distinction, because the application will be made under European Law, not under UK Immigration Rules.

If, as a European National, you are "exercising your treaty rights" by living and working in the UK, you have the right to bring your husband here. You don't have to spend time together in your own country to benefit from this law. The application would be free of charge, and the only reason it could be refused is that it is proved to be based on a marriage of convenience.

It is of course possible that the British visa officer will point to the previous refusals and say that these "prove" that his only motive in marrying you is to circumvent UK law. You of course can argue that your relationship has endured these setbacks and it's nonsense to suggest that a professional person with your resources has any motive other than love to get married. But you must always remember that it is the intentions of the applicant, not the sponsor which are what count most.

In this situation I think you do need good professional advice to present a successful application. I would sugges that you conact Davies Khan whose link is on this page, as he has a wealth of experience in dealing with the Bangkok Embassy, and also of how they handle EEA applications.

Hi,

Yes i work in the UK right now. My boyfriend will start a course soon so before beginning of june he wouldnt be able to come anyway. Also until then the house that is currently under his mothers name will be under his. He is not exactly poor - actually he is middle class. Also I dont intend to live all my life in the UK - yeah i have a job currently there but I plan after 2-3 years to go to another european country to work as i like to change my residence. If i would have gotten a job in spain i would have applied for spain it just happened that my job offer came from a british company...

I will get in touch with Davies Khan! Thanks for your nice words!

Lorelei30

If you get married and he applies for EEA Family Permit, matters such as house ownership, or "reason to return" mentioned by others, are irrelevant, whether he intends to return or not. The Family Permit will give him entry to the UK for 6 months, and he can apply there for a Residence Permit it you are based in the UK for a few years. He can then apply for an EEA Permit if you decide to move to any other EEA country, even Austria.

Have a look at the form he will have to fill in to apply:

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/resources/en/docs/1903073/vaf5

Note the questions in 6.2, which are to identify whether or not this is a marriage of convenience. I would have thought that under European law your time together show this would not be a marriage of convenience, but you need to take professional advice on that point. Otherwise you shouldn't have any problems

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What happened to my last post?

An explanation would be nice!

I presume that people who subscribe to these threads will at least get the content by e-mail, so can read it, even if deleted.

Quoting one of my fellow mods. "Nonsensical post. Deleting it"

I would of deleted it for being off topic.

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....the only thing i could do in thailand is to be an english teacher....

I am no expert but as a non-native speaker, you may have trouble even finding a job as an English teacher in Thailand.

I had the same problem with my bf a few years back - first visa (for UK) was refused but since then we have had tons of visas, incl Uk, Schengen, USA and asian without any problem. The big one is the first one - the most difficult and the most valuable as it sets a precedent. So as most posters here have said - you have to plan over a long time and get all the necessary paperwork. You seem to think that it is your credibility that mainly decides if he gets his visa - you should concentrate more on solidifying your bf's credibility - and that means mainly showing clearly that he will return to Thailand after his trips - even if it means waiting a while to accumulate that evidence - you have to be patient, targetted and careful. Perosnally, I would not get any agent or lawyer involved - it is usually a waste of time and sometimes counterproductive. Prior experience of punters like us is much more valuable.

Edited by Tyke
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Hello,

First I would like to apologise on my country's behalf for the rather difficult visa process; my wife was also refused the first time, when we wanted to spend Xmas with my mother. I, too, was shocked, assuming that our application was "straight forward". Don't take it personally.

I'll keep this post short, but this is what I learnt from my experience.

We assume that filling in the form(s) and providing all the documents they ask for is sufficient. It is not. It is the responsibility of the applicant to convince the embassy that the applicant:

1) Does not intend to work whilst in the UK;

2) Will not overstay;

3) Will not become a burden on society.

To do this, item by item:

1) Convince them of the relationship and that you will support him; show registration at the language school;

2) Provide evidence that he has something in Thailand to return to (e.g. family, house, job, car);

3) Provide evidence that, in addition to the money planned to be spent during his visit, he has reserves to cover medical emergencies.

To emphasise, each statement you make needs backup documents. If you say he has a house, provide a copy of the chanote or at least pictures of him at the house. Etc.

Good luck,

Mike

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My advice would be is that when they ask you what you boyfriends name is, don't reply "darling". Only joking, although I have heard this is true with a Thai lady who was asked this question.

My wife made her first trip to the UK last month, we used an agent, everything was easy and stress free. Next time were do it ourselves.

Good luck.

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Dear Lorelei

I sympathise with your situation. I applied for a UK tourist visa for a female Thai friend (yes just friend, actually) to visit the UK some years back. Like you, I have substantial financial resources, and multiple homes worldwide, so arrogantly though that it would be straightforward. Was I wrong!

Like others have said, the fact that you are clearly a responsible and financially secure European citizen has little bearing on the application. It is the intentions of the visitor which the Embassy staff need to be sure of. As I now know, they have seen a huge number of such applications where the applicant has feigned friendship/love only to disappear soon after arriving in-country. Please don’t misunderstand me: I’m not saying that is the case with you, but that is exactly what the visa officer will be thinking in his cynical brain. They are box-tickers, with common sense often not applying. Might I ask, is there an age difference?

In the end, after three refusals I lost my temper with these people, stopped telling the whole truth, installed my friend as an ‘employee’ of my UK company, applied for a business visa for her and got it by return. Complete bureaucratic nonsense. She visited twice during the standard six month visa validity then returned to Thailand. We are still best friends.

One option you have is to say stuff the UK and go elsewhere in Europe. Especially since UK is not your home, why bother with the place? It sounds like you can get work anywhere.

Personally, having become seriously p!ssed off with both UK and Thailand, I did just that, and now stay mainly in Malaysia. I easily got a ten-year visa, and Thai friend/s can visit by air or road for three months without the slightest problem. Tax-free too :o

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I don't want to appear to be jumping to conclusions but I noticed a few things from the information you gave. You said your boyfriend was "middle-class" but had only been educated to high-school level. There are very few middle class Thai's who are not educated to degree level. And a fair number of people from working class families that have managed to get degrees. You also said he had certificates from Wat Po. And you supported him on a tour of SEA. The assumption I made was Thai beach boy, which will be regarded in the same way as a Thai bar girl. Even if that is not the case, and even though the embassy must provided you with a visa if all the T's are crossed and i's dotted, if they make the same assumption, they will be extremely strict with the rules. The same way they are with men requesting visas for women they assume are bar girls (and are learning to be hairdressers).

I'm not trying to be prejudice, and I personally don't care either way, but it just makes life harder. Use a lawyer and make sure you have everything you absolutely need. Having the house in his name (which is a pretty simple transfer if there is a Canote and no ties to the title), and try and get him on a course or job to come back to after his trip, and an initial one or two month "holiday" stay, will make life easier.

Good luck.

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Hi, 

Sorry to hear you have had so much trouble. Ten years ago I applied for a visa for my Thai boyfriend to visit the UK and got it. Subsequently we got another two visitor's visas to the UK, plus some French visas and then a marriage visa and he is now a Brit. 

As everyone says, the first visa is most important. Your documentation should 1) prove beyond doubt the strength of your relationship and 2) (conversely perhaps) that he will be returning to Thailand at the end of the visit and 3) that you can support him financially while in the UK. 

You have to give these guys at the embassy enough information so they can say unequivocally, yes to your application. You've probably been to the embassy, seen the numbers of old Brits applying for visas for their girlfriends, many of whom are clearly bar girls. This is what they deal with every day, so everything you do should be aimed at estalishing that you are not having one of those relationships that could end up in a break up in the UK with an asylum claim at the end of it.

When we applied, we had been in a relationship for about six years and had the documentation to prove it. We also chose photographs from different times, when we looked different, different hair cuts etc.. so that they could see a progression in our relationship. From the beginning, anticipating this issue, we kept almost every document ever made together, everything, all our rent receipts, gas bills rent agreements in our names. There was so much documentation it was an inch thick. We wanted deliberately, to overwhelm them with it. 

My husband provided quite a bit of documentation showing he needed to return to Thailand at the end of his visit. A job contract with an NGO, his salary slips, receipts showing he was supporting his younger brother and sister in boarding school, motorbike ownership papers, rent agreement with the landlord etc... to show he had a life here and wasn't going to abandon it. The fact we both lived in Thailand helped of course, and the fact that we were going for a wedding, which meant a clear defineable purpose for our visit and an end to it. That's what they want.  

I have no idea about the strength of your relationship - you sound very committed - but when you look at it from the outside there are some obvious differences to our applications - the length of time of our relationship, the fact we were both living in Thailand and were both coming back and the fact we were going for wedding. In reality this means nothing, but I am sure this is what counted in our favour with the visa officer. In your case you have not known your boyfriend for a terribly long time, you have not presented him as well settled in Thailand with a job to return to and you are already living in the UK and he isn't - all factors that would lead a visa officer to question the application.

Once we had the first visa, the second and third were easy to get and to be honest so was the marriage visa. By that time I had returned to the UK, had been working for a year in a good job, had bought a house and could more than provide for him. Still, each time we pulled out copies of the old inch thick pile (together with new photos of him meeting my family, attending the wedding, skiing in Europe etc) to avoid any chance of refusal and when it came to the interview for our marriage visa, the officer didn't even bother to interview my boyfriend as she said it was quite obvious our relationship was real.

Can I say too, that these applications took place over a period of a few years - rather than, what seems in your case a few months. Looking at your relationship with a critical visa official's approach - which is who you are trying to satisfy - I might have some questions - for example, a six month romance travelling around southeast Asia (presumably with you paying because he doesn't have a job) may not be the most real testing ground for a multi cultural relationship. Then you decide to go to England and within a relatively short period of time, decide to get married. Later you say you could have gone to Spain or elsewhere - it doesn't matter as you like to travel, you have good qualifications so can do so. Good for you. But what about your man? Will he be able to cope whizzing around Europe with his Asian background, lesser qualifications and language issues?

It's something a visa officer will inevitably be thinking about when considering your visa and something you should consider too when applying. Life is not so easy when you're married to someone from the other side of the world especially if they haven't been bought up for an international career and when travel, holidays etc will be adjusted to allow for expensive trips for you and him to visit your families, attend marriages, funerals etc... Both of you following your career may make sense financially, but will it enable him to grow, to find his niche in life and for both of you to live together? Isn't it sensible to get him over on a visitor's visa first before trying for the marriage visa, just to see how he will cope in Europe. There are no easy answers to these questions, but thinking them through might help provide your applications with the solidity and stability you need to get a yes. 

good luck with it...

gingercat

   

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got the same problems with wife nr 1 and 2...

nr 1 (chinese) could not get even a visiting visa to my own country... even i proved enough money, job, signing papers, etc...

nr 2 (thai) ... was pregnant, took 3 months before the paper works finished

if you want to do it the legal way, you will face allways problems

in my home country, it is the paradise for illegal ... the come in .. apply for political asile even they are here for only economic reasons

they can apply unlimitless, get free lawyes, go occupy churches and schools to get papers...

disguested myself 2x in less than 10 years

now i live in LOS and enjoy life much more...

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got the same problems with wife nr 1 and 2...

nr 1 (chinese) could not get even a visiting visa to my own country... even i proved enough money, job, signing papers, etc...

nr 2 (thai) ... was pregnant, took 3 months before the paper works finished

if you want to do it the legal way, you will face allways problems

in my home country, it is the paradise for illegal ... the come in .. apply for political asile even they are here for only economic reasons

they can apply unlimitless, get free lawyes, go occupy churches and schools to get papers...

disguested myself 2x in less than 10 years

now i live in LOS and enjoy life much more...

Dear thaibkk, Did you live in UK? If so go back to the UK and learn the queens English.

As for this subject UK visa's refused etc...If you're serious wait and get married let him get some experience as a chef and with that experience and security apply again.

Why waste money on immigration lawyers. Get married and apply the correct way if this is the man you feel you'd like to spend the rest of your life with.

GOOD LUCK to you both.........Who cares also what people think about your differences.

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Hello,

Me and my thai boyfriend ended up in a quite difficult visa situation with the UK embassy despite the fact that we always have told them nothing but the truth. Here is the situation we are currently in:

[...]

Lorelei30

Lorelei,

As other have said you really need to prove that the relationship is genuine and that he will come back to Thailand!

Provide pictures of the two of you but also of you with him and his familly.

If he had some land it helps, even if it is only one rai.

Also 40,000 baht on a bank account is not enough. 200,000 sounds much better, not to be deposited in one go ! The immigration officer is not stupid!

Get testimony letters from friends who have met the two of you from the start and can testify that you have been living together

I think you are also asked for a copy of his "family book", if not just add it to show he has a family to care for.

Add copies of all his degrees certificate, land titles anything that make him not a "beach boy" :o

Some suggested you to marry him. But for that you would have to invite him first to your country and I doubt your consulate will agree to marry the two of you so quickly! There is a special visa for that but since you only know each other for a few months I doubt you will get it!

He must have health insurance but you said you have that.

how about is English? can he write a simple letter saying he wants to visit england and why? you can write it for him (simple english or even better Thaiglish) and have him writing it by hand.

You main problem now is that you have made two application and that they knwo your case... so don't bullshit them...

Keep in mind that the UK visa service is subcontracted by the to a private company which does not really undertsand the subtlety of all situations or of the law and most of the time "tick boxes"... it took me some time and discussion to get a visa for my civil partner and I had to go inside and explain the immigration rules to them. At first they did not know, called the embassy, turn me down because they did not ask the right question to the Embassy, called again and then allowed us to apply for the visa, which we got in 10 days. The applicatuon was about 2 cm thick!

You can use an agency, there is one just next to the Visa service.... there is no small profit or lack of opportunity... TIT.

Best and good luck.

Roger

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Some suggested you to marry him. But for that you would have to invite him first to your country and I doubt your consulate will agree to marry the two of you so quickly!

Keep in mind that the UK visa service is subcontracted by the to a private company which does not really undertsand the subtlety of all situations or of the law ......

Roger

The OP originally said: " Also I plan to marry my boyfriend in April when i go to Bangkok....." She can do that quite easily, then she can make the EEA application and ignore all this drivel about providing "reasons to return".

The "private company's" only function is to receive the application and pass it on to the embassy. They play no part in deciding it.

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Hello,

Me and my thai boyfriend ended up in a quite difficult visa situation with the UK embassy despite the fact that we always have told them nothing but the truth. Here is the situation we are currently in:

[...]

Lorelei30

Some suggested you to marry him. But for that you would have to invite him first to your country and I doubt your consulate will agree to marry the two of you so quickly! There is a special visa for that but since you only know each other for a few months I doubt you will get it!

The embassy has no say whatsoever in whether she can marry or not. They merely supply her with paperwork to prove that she is free to marry. It would be a sad day if embassy staff had a say on whether two people could marry or not.

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It does seem that the three visit visa applications were doomed to failure due to the naivety of the OP. Not her fault, we've all been there!

However, as Eff1n2ret says, as they plan to marry in April anyway then the EEA family permit route seems to be the obvious one to take.

See:-

Chapter 21 - The European dimension; 21.4 The EEA family permit

Guidance - EEA & Swiss nationals (INF 18)

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