A British Ex-pat's Dilemma

[samuibeachcomber]

Let's not turn this into yet another Strength of the Baht thread but I think it would be very unwise for people to plan on the Baht crashing to a level that will make a substantial difference - similarly, I wouldn't look to the Pound to gain substantial amounts over the next twelve months either. I say these things because it's probably best to start planning an alternate way out of the situation now rather than waiting for an event that is unlikely to occur.

are there many choices?for most it would mean working again either here if possible or back in their home country,and now that jobs are shrinking that leaves being reliant onthe home country's welfare system...not a pleasant prospect,particularly if you have a thai family to support.

[Penkoprod]

I have always understood that immigration want your money in a savings account to show you are using the money on a daily basis.After you receive the extension there's nothing to stop you transferring a portion to a fixed term if you want to.

Strangely enough i have heard of people waving the same 800,000 Baht to Immigration year after year

No movement on the account since its 1st (and only) entry of the said monies.

Penkoprod

[chiang mai]

Let's not turn this into yet another Strength of the Baht thread but I think it would be very unwise for people to plan on the Baht crashing to a level that will make a substantial difference - similarly, I wouldn't look to the Pound to gain substantial amounts over the next twelve months either. I say these things because it's probably best to start planning an alternate way out of the situation now rather than waiting for an event that is unlikely to occur.

are there many choices?for most it would mean working again either here if possible or back in their home country,and now that jobs are shrinking that leaves being reliant onthe home country's welfare system...not a pleasant prospect,particularly if you have a thai family to support.

Unfortunately there aren't too many choices but having a plan B and C in your mind will help when you go and see Immigration and plead your case. I wish you good luck.

[samuibeachcomber]

I have always understood that immigration want your money in a savings account to show you are using the money on a daily basis.After you receive the extension there's nothing to stop you transferring a portion to a fixed term if you want to.

Strangely enough i have heard of people waving the same 800,000 Baht to Immigration year after year

No movement on the account since its 1st (and only) entry of the said monies.

Penkoprod

sure me too but they would probably have to show another account with daily transactions,having the 800,000 permanently in a fixed term here is good move and would offset losing money via poor exchange rate.

[samuibeachcomber]

Let's not turn this into yet another Strength of the Baht thread but I think it would be very unwise for people to plan on the Baht crashing to a level that will make a substantial difference - similarly, I wouldn't look to the Pound to gain substantial amounts over the next twelve months either. I say these things because it's probably best to start planning an alternate way out of the situation now rather than waiting for an event that is unlikely to occur.

are there many choices?for most it would mean working again either here if possible or back in their home country,and now that jobs are shrinking that leaves being reliant onthe home country's welfare system...not a pleasant prospect,particularly if you have a thai family to support.

Unfortunately there aren't too many choices but having a plan B and C in your mind will help when you go and see Immigration and plead your case. I wish you good luck.

i think the main problem is being on a fixed income from their home base,from a retirement visa prospective,a person could reduce the 800,000 to 400,000 with a marraige visa,or multi non immigration 0.

[sassienie]

I am now 56 and took early retirement last year at 55.

My family and I arrived here in 2003 with several million baht worth of savings.

It is evitable that bank interest rates and exchange rates are going to fall from time to time.

In my case I have enough funds to ride out these financial storms and don’t have to worry for a good few years.

My advice for anyone considering retiring in Thailand is to ensure they have adequate savings to last at least 3 years for when the bank rates fall, otherwise best to stay in the home country.

The greatest concerns during these financial crisis is that our pension companies go under.

[OriginalPoster]

I am now 56 and took early retirement last year at 55.

My family and I arrived here in 2003 with several million baht worth of savings.

It is evitable that bank interest rates and exchange rates are going to fall from time to time.

In my case I have enough funds to ride out these financial storms and don't have to worry for a good few years.

My advice for anyone considering retiring in Thailand is to ensure they have adequate savings to last at least 3 years for when the bank rates fall, otherwise best to stay in the home country.

The greatest concerns during these financial crisis is that our pension companies go under.

How does that add up though? I mean, 3 years reserves when you're when your retired at 56 potentially means that you'll go broke at 59 years old and that your business connections are at least 3 years stale when your money runs out. And even if the economy stayed stable, only a few million Baht savings spread over the life expectancy of a 56 year old sounds like a one-way ticket to poverty.

Edited January 24, 2009 by OriginalPoster

[12DrinkMore]

The GBP has taken a nose-dive against every other nation's currency (with the possible exception of those small Amazonian tribes who trade with beads and mirrors).

Bad news I'm afraid, mirrors are too expensive for them now.

[12DrinkMore]

Hi Murgatroyd

I have two thoughts on this for you, but both lead to you chilling out so all is good.

1: The Thai Authorities use their discretion in 99% of all issues (normally with a very fair hand) so when you explain to the (probobly very friendly and helpful) immigration official and explain that your short of the required monthly amount due to the reasons you've mentioned (save time by translating your post directly into thai and just hand it to them) you will be issued with a visa and a smile. (loy percent)

2: The Thai authorities will devalue the baht (because everybody else is doing that with their currencies) It is simple sense and will happen in due course.

All will be good.

And I am the sayer of doom.

1. The Thai Immigration are very strict on the 800,000 in the bank account or income certified by the British Embassy. There is no room for negotiation.

2. They will not devalue the Baht to pander to the Brits.

All will be doom. And then gloom and then we are totally doomed in the gloom.

[12DrinkMore]

sure me too but they would probably have to show another account with daily transactions,having the 800,000 permanently in a fixed term here is good move and would offset losing money via poor exchange rate.

All the immigration officer wants to see is a letter from the Thai bank saying that you have 800,000 Baht in an account and a copy of all the pages from the bank passbook showing that the money has been there for three months.

All this "probably" and "possibly" and "showing movements" is nonsense.

[chiang mai]

sure me too but they would probably have to show another account with daily transactions,having the 800,000 permanently in a fixed term here is good move and would offset losing money via poor exchange rate.

All the immigration officer wants to see is a letter from the Thai bank saying that you have 800,000 Baht in an account and a copy of all the pages from the bank passbook showing that the money has been there for three months.

All this "probably" and "possibly" and "showing movements" is nonsense.

I'm not sure the part about "movements" is entirely nonsense. For the past six years I've always been required to produce original copies of every monthly statement from my bank (I don't use a passbook savings account) and each page is always reviewed, presumably to ensure that funds don't just enter the account for visa purposes and are then transferred out afterwards.

[davyboy]

Fixed term accounts are fine in Chiang Mai.

Likewise in Suan Pluu!

[samuibeachcomber]

sure me too but they would probably have to show another account with daily transactions,having the 800,000 permanently in a fixed term here is good move and would offset losing money via poor exchange rate.

All the immigration officer wants to see is a letter from the Thai bank saying that you have 800,000 Baht in an account and a copy of all the pages from the bank passbook showing that the money has been there for three months.

All this "probably" and "possibly" and "showing movements" is nonsense.

I'm not sure the part about "movements" is entirely nonsense. For the past six years I've always been required to produce original copies of every monthly statement from my bank (I don't use a passbook savings account) and each page is always reviewed, presumably to ensure that funds don't just enter the account for visa purposes and are then transferred out afterwards.

immigration offices have different criteria,any time i have gone to get an extension to my retirement visa they have asked for the following:

800,000 to be in a savings account 3 months prior to extension request

photo copy of every page to show you have used the previous 800,000 during the year.I have friends iwho have two accounts one showing 800,000 that they do not touch,it just gains interest,then another account(which can have any amount in that they use for daily living,i hope thats clear "drink too much".!+12.

[BigSnake]

When I arrived in Thailand last April, my monthly income from investments in the UK amounted to about 1050 GBP per month. This produced a monthly income of 65,265 Bhat, just about qualifying for the monthly requirement of 65.000 Bhat needed to obtain the O/A (retirement) visa. As part of my income fluctuates, and is only paid quarterly, I elected to go the lump sum route, and easily established that I had UK bank deposits in excess of the 12,800 GBP required ( or 800,000 bhat ) for the visa.

Since then the exchange rate has fluctuated considerably. It rose briefly to 1 GBP = 67 Bhat, but has now dipped to 1 GBP = 48 Bhat.

So currently my origional income of 1050 GBP would only produce a monthly income of 50,400 Bhat.

In order to qualify for a further extension of my permission to stay based on retirement, I would need a monthly income of 1355 GBP, or a lump sum of 16,667 GBP deposited in a Thai bank, (Where it would earn no interest at all, thus further depleting my UK income) This amounts to having to find an extra 3867 GBP per year

Some financial forcasters are so dubious about the prospects of Stirling, that they predict that the GBP could fall further to an exchange rate of 1 GBP = 35 Bhat within the next year.

Under those circumstances my origional monthly income of 1050 would only produce 36,750 bhat. I would need a monthly income of 1857 GBP or to deposit 22,286 GBP in a Thai bank to qualify for a renewal of my permission to stay under the lump sum rule. This would require finding an extra 897 GBP per month, or 9486 GBP per year

It's a problem for most Expats, so Btirs don't feel along

The real situation turns out to be worse than that, for my actual income in the UK has fallen due to contracting interest rates.

I wondered how other Ex-Pats intended to cope with this worsening situation... In my case, as I have married a Thai national, I have the option of renewing my permission to stay on the "Marriage" basis. This reduces the amount of income or lump sum required considerably, but even then, I would be in considerable difficulties if the Pound fell to the projected 35 bhat exchange rate.

Should the prognostications of some financial doomsayers come to pass, and the UK banking system collapse altogether, then I would be unable even to afford a flight home, let alone provide for my new family.

So, speaking to other British Ex-Pats in Thailand on retirement visas, what are your plans to deal with this situation?

[loong]

Big Snake - did you add anything?

If you are going to put your comments inside the quote box, please highlight them in some way so that they are easy to spot

[12DrinkMore]

I'm not sure the part about "movements" is entirely nonsense. For the past six years I've always been required to produce original copies of every monthly statement from my bank (I don't use a passbook savings account) and each page is always reviewed, presumably to ensure that funds don't just enter the account for visa purposes and are then transferred out afterwards.

Once again we have a "presumably", if you don't have a passbook and hand an official a load of paper, then of course he is going to look through it all. He is determining that the 800,000 has been in the account for three months.

immigration offices have different criteria,any time i have gone to get an extension to my retirement visa they have asked for the following:

800,000 to be in a savings account 3 months prior to extension request

fair enough that is the requirement.

photo copy of every page to show you have used the previous 800,000 during the year.

hang on, well how much? ALL of it? 50%, 10%, 10 Baht? Come on, surely they are not about to say, "well, you only spent 799,999 baht, so that is not enough, no visa for you."

I have friends iwho have two accounts one showing 800,000 that they do not touch,it just gains interest,

That's what I do. And so do a few of my friends too.

then another account(which can have any amount in that they use for daily living,i hope thats clear "drink too much".!+12.

I also have other accounts, as I hate the ATM display showing how much is in my account to the general public.

But I have never been asked to show proof of spending, or details of these accounts or proof that the funds came from overseas, which in itself would raise the question, if somebody had worked all his life in Thailand and decided to retire, how on earth could they kick him out because the money had not come from abroad?

Time for another beer after all that typing. Fingers must be getting thirsty... :D

[egg6447]

its time to give a heads up to you brits married to a thai. apply for the additional pention (adult dependancy increase ) . this will give you another 200 squid a month = 10k bt. ish. if you need more info, contact. regards.

[Jingthing]

photo copy of every page to show you have used the previous 800,000 during the year.

Of course there is no requirement to spend any specific amount during the year. In other words, you can spend 200K if that is all you need, you do not need to SPEND 800K.

[henryalleman]

borrow money from a thai relative to put in the bank in your name and let them keep the bank book and atm card.

That is funny as I'd say 90% of retirees that come here meet their wives on the internet or tourist areas. They are the cash cows and the Thai family would never dream of lending a large sum of money, and usually don't have it.

I personally know a few retirees that probably won't have a wife if the pound goes to 40.

Neeranam,

maybe you are some kind of misanthropist, but most of the retirees I know have successful long standing marriages of 20 years and over. And many of them did meet their wifes in their home country, as I did. I took the first holliday in Thailand after 10 years of marriage.

[henryalleman]

I am now 56 and took early retirement last year at 55.

My family and I arrived here in 2003 with several million baht worth of savings.

It is evitable that bank interest rates and exchange rates are going to fall from time to time.

In my case I have enough funds to ride out these financial storms and don't have to worry for a good few years.

My advice for anyone considering retiring in Thailand is to ensure they have adequate savings to last at least 3 years for when the bank rates fall, otherwise best to stay in the home country.

The greatest concerns during these financial crisis is that our pension companies go under.

How does that add up though? I mean, 3 years reserves when you're when your retired at 56 potentially means that you'll go broke at 59 years old and that your business connections are at least 3 years stale when your money runs out. And even if the economy stayed stable, only a few million Baht savings spread over the life expectancy of a 56 year old sounds like a one-way ticket to poverty.

I don't think he mean like that. I thinks its meaning when the Baht is strong he can wait a few years if necessary to transfer the money from his monthly pension. I do the same but only with a 1 year reserve. Most of my savings I keep in my home country. Better saving rates, more reliable banks, And its in a non volative currency (EURO)

[billd766]

its time to give a heads up to you brits married to a thai. apply for the additional pention (adult dependancy increase ) . this will give you another 200 squid a month = 10k bt. ish. if you need more info, contact. regards.

My pension is due in May this year so I asked for a forecast back in December.

It will be sent to me at home but I will get my wife to send it over as I am working in NZ at the moment.

[Penkoprod]

its time to give a heads up to you brits married to a thai. apply for the additional pention (adult dependancy increase ) . this will give you another 200 squid a month = 10k bt. ish. if you need more info, contact. regards.

If you are talking about the British State Pension, isn't this frozen as soon as you leave the country and go to live in Thailand?

Not sure, but i think there is a long thread on here on the very same article

Penkoprod

[caulfield2]

borrow money from a thai relative to put in the bank in your name and let them keep the bank book and atm card.

Maybe the poster just viewed "Gran Torino" and is being pleasantly optimistic, lol.

[Tafia]

Thanks for your replies.

I'm fairly lucky! As I approach the end of my first year in Thailand, I have the option of doing a border run before my origional O/A 1 year multi entry visa expires. On my return, I should recieve a stamp in my passport allowing me to stay for a second year before I have to apply at the immigration office for an extension of permission to stay, and present the financial paperwork that would currently be awkward in the present financial climate...

So I have the luxury of waiting another year before I have to worry about the official financial requirements... I can only hope that the exchange rate improves in the meantime. ...............

Surely if you use your original visa you will only get 90 days - not 1 year?

Not on an OA, a border run just before the first years visa will get another 12 mths on the return to LOS

[Tafia]

its time to give a heads up to you brits married to a thai. apply for the additional pention (adult dependancy increase ) . this will give you another 200 squid a month = 10k bt. ish. if you need more info, contact. regards.

If you are talking about the British State Pension, isn't this frozen as soon as you leave the country and go to live in Thailand?

Not sure, but i think there is a long thread on here on the very same article

Penkoprod

Its frozen at the rate you start claiming after you have arrived in Thailand. You cannot claim until you are 65yrs of age.

[patklang]

claiming for your thai wife will finish in april 2010,but if you already claim a married pension you continue until 2020.

[canadianmonkey]

dear god whats wrong with you people

If you make less money, take multiple tourist visa's like we all do. or theres a couple embassy in the world doing non-b immigrant 1 year for like 15k baht

I think the reason we only see brits whining, is because of the excess drinking of cheap beer.. even if you drop at 30k baht a month its WAY enough,

drop your rent to 12-15k, you can have a modern house with farang furniture for that price, the other 15k is WAY enough for as much food as you want and some fun.

[egg6447]

its time to give a heads up to you brits married to a thai. apply for the additional pention (adult dependancy increase ) . this will give you another 200 squid a month = 10k bt. ish. if you need more info, contact. regards.

If you are talking about the British State Pension, isn't this frozen as soon as you leave the country and go to live in Thailand?

Not sure, but i think there is a long thread on here on the very same article

Penkoprod

i find i get bored quite easily on here. ur post is adding to that feeling. just what do u think ur post has to do with mine. is there any help for some of u people

[Dave the Dude]

I think the reason we only see brits whining, is because of the excess drinking of cheap beer.. even if you drop at 30k baht a month its WAY enough,

drop your rent to 12-15k, you can have a modern house with farang furniture for that price, the other 15k is WAY enough for as much food as you want and some fun.

I think you are stretching that a bit, matey.

Even here in poor Issan, 15k for living expenses is very tight EXCLUDING most types of fun but then again I know not how a CANADIANMonkey has fun??

Dave

[canadianmonkey]

funny outside of rent and bills, i use less than 15k per month on food and entertainement.. and we are 4 people.

and i do not eat thai food most days, when i do i buy 4 dish 3 to 5 times a day cause that food is non-filling.

and phuket is far more expensive than other places.

If i lived in bangkok and was in op's situation id just move to a REALLY nice but only 40-50sqm condo for maybe 6-7k a month or buy one of those new peacefull condos near the new skytrain line, they go at less than 3million, are fully funirshed and pretty big, plus no traffic noise and lake's. that's probably less than 8k a month in mortage, then u got 22k for food and entertainement.

Oh ya, i dont spend more than 400baht a month on booze, better things to do in life than kill my braincells everynight to froget that my life has no meaning like most retired people living in thailand, so that might be why im able to live on less even though i only buy the best of whats available.