Looking To Build A New Highend Computer

[Jared]

Its time for a new computer and im looking to put something together.

Ive been looking at the Inter i7 core processors, is this the way to go? I think the I7-920 is about 11k and the I7-940 is about 20k, the I7 exteme processors are way out of my budget.

Ill be installing a 64bit operator probably still XP so Im looking to have as much ram as possible. It looks like I7 comes with DDR3 and for some reason they seem to come in groups of 3gbs. Im guessing the maximum I can go for is 6gb?

Harddrives Ill probably be going for 1 or 2TBs but im not sure if they should be single drives or split up, what are the advantages of splitting them up.

Graphics card, I dont need anything to fancy this is not for gaming.

Is there anything else I could do with like coolers to stop it overheating? Currently I have to clean my machine out every 2 months because the processor gets blocked with dust and overheats.

The programs I mainly use are 3d packages such as 3dsmax and Maya but I also have multiple programs open at the same time using dual screens.

Looking for some advice from an expert, Im clueless when It comes to this stuff.

Thanks

Jared

[jeffer]

Re: memory, you will be paying a premium for DDR3 (triple channel) compared to DDR2. I have seen reviews running 6x2GB but that would probably set you back 10-20k here in Thailand. Take a look at review sites like Anandtech, Tweaktown etc. to see if the performance is worth the price, what with DDR2 being so low in price currently. 

Unless you have money to burn then check out performance reviews comparing high end Quad or Core 2 Duo with i7. It's not just the higher cost of DDR3 but the higher cost of a i7 motherboard. Whatever you pay for a i7 based system today will probably be double what it will be in 12 months time for something even faster. Consider buying a P45 based setup now and get an i7 version with Windows7 when prices have dropped as they will have by early 2010.

I have a HIS ATI 4670 video card, let's you play most modern games at medium resolution, about 3000 baht so it might be a good match for  you.

An upmarket cooler will cost about 2000 bt but if you're not gaming then you might even find the Intel supplied cooler okay. The dust will still come depending on where you have your case and if it has a filter but if you have a long haired cat...

Don't forget to buy a decent power supply, 2000 baht would be the starting price for an upmarket system but don't get carried away and buy an overpriced 850watt model if you don't need it. Modular versions are good to save cable clutter. Unless you are running multiple high end video cards then a quality 500 watt model might be all you need. 

[spacefruit]

I am not familiar with the 3d applications you will be using so I am ready to be corrected!

I think that right now core duo processor and DDR2 represent fantastic vale for money. I read a comparison of DDR2 vs DDR3 and at best it was a 3% performance gain. (PC World magazine July 2008).

I have a fully capable system running an E4200 core duo, with an NVIDIA 9600 GT.

I run two 19inch Sony monitors and have many programs open at once. I have 4GB of DDR2 but i am on XP so it only sees 3GB. This entire system cost under 12,000THB, and that was a year ago and all should be cheaper. EG 4GB of the same RAM is now 1800THB. I since replaced the CPU with an E7200, which did speed things along noticeably.

For fun I have built another system which cost more than double this machine, and frankly I cannot see very much gain. Even the Games run the same to me, and it is for games you need to spend money.

As to 64bit, I like Vista. On every machine I have put it on it installs quickly, with no fuss or problems and seems to have every driver I need.

I were going to build a machine from what you say, here is what I would do. I wouldn't use raid, even though I have specified boards that would do (could add later)- just make sure the boards will take more than 4GB memory as I didn't check that. Don't be put off by the cheaper CPU if you are not encoding or gaming I think its OK. Otherwise the E7300 is fine. You cn get cheaper boards but I dont use cheap ones anymore. I have recomended top HDD's which are a huge slice of cash. You can save there.

Here some prices:

CPU

INTEL CORE 2 DUO E8400LGA775 3.00GHz 1333 MHz 6MB 45 nM 6190

INTEL Core 2 Duo E7300LGA775 2.66GHz 1066 MHz 3 MB 45 nm 4250

INTEL DUALCORE E5200LGA775 2.50GHZ 800 MHz 2 MB 45 nM 2650

MOBO

GIGABYTE EP45-UD3RP45+ICH10R 4390

GIGABYTE EP45-UD3LRSOCKET 775/INTEL P45 ICH10R 3890

GIGABYTE EP43-DS3LSOCKET 775/INTEL P43 ICH10 3350

Memory

GEIL VALUE4 GB-800,5-5-5-15,(2GBx2)1800

Hardrives

First for Data, second fast drive for system and programs

SEAGATE 1.5 TB .11SEAGATE 1.5 TB,SATA II,32MB NCQ 5590

WD 150/10000WD RAPTOR 150 GB 1000 RPM SATA II 6990

Graphics

Gigabyte 9600 GT 512MB,DDR 3 CORE 650 MEM 1800 3890

Have Fun.

Edited January 24, 2009 by spacefruit

[spacefruit]

BTW I believe the Extreme processors, which sell for a huge premium, have unlocked multipliers, which for a mortal like me, is irrelevant. It is for the phase change cooling boys overclocking to 5Ghz.

[wxpwzrd]

You will have enough opinions on hardware so I will refrain from adding mine. BUT, do not install 64-bit XP. That was a bastard stepchild in the Windows line. Go for Vista 64-bit.

Edited January 24, 2009 by wxpwzrd

[Jared]

Thanks for the advice and suggestions, anymore is more than welcome.

Jared

[dotcom]

The i7 are not here yet (I think) so keep your powder dry.

I called Jedi the other day & they didn't have them.

[jeffer]

The i7 are not here yet (I think) so keep your powder dry.

I called Jedi the other day & they didn't have them.

There are plenty of shops with i7 processors on their price lists... JIB, Hardware House, Busitek... Jedi, so surely someone has some by now.

i7 EE-965 3.20GHz, a bargain @ 41,500 baht 

Something like the new E7500 isn't on any pricelists here, yet I had one in my hands in Singapore during the week so I'm curious to see the timelag before it's available in Pantip.

[dave_boo]

Its time for a new computer and im looking to put something together.

Ive been looking at the Inter i7 core processors, is this the way to go? I think the I7-920 is about 11k and the I7-940 is about 20k, the I7 exteme processors are way out of my budget.

Excellent choice; I'm a AMD fanboy but they've just not been competitive. If I was building a machine right now I'd go for the i7-920.

Ill be installing a 64bit operator probably still XP so Im looking to have as much ram as possible. It looks like I7 comes with DDR3 and for some reason they seem to come in groups of 3gbs. Im guessing the maximum I can go for is 6gb?

The reason you're seeing groups of three is because Intel went with Tri-Channel memory. This supposedly helps the processor not be starved for information. So to get the most performance you need to have three sticks in. You should be able to find 1,2,4 x3 kits. Depending on your motherboard you could probably get a maximum of 24 GB in it.

Harddrives Ill probably be going for 1 or 2TBs but im not sure if they should be single drives or split up, what are the advantages of splitting them up.

Graphics card, I dont need anything to fancy this is not for gaming.

What I would do is get 2x 1,5 TB hard drives and RAID-1 them. This will mirror the data from the main drive onto the secondary drive. Yes it adds expense, but it also adds peace of mind. For your graphics card I'd recommend going with a Quadro considering your next paragraph.

Is there anything else I could do with like coolers to stop it overheating? Currently I have to clean my machine out every 2 months because the processor gets blocked with dust and overheats.

The programs I mainly use are 3d packages such as 3dsmax and Maya but I also have multiple programs open at the same time using dual screens.

Easiest thing to do would be to get the machine up off the floor and out of the dust! Another thing you can do is go and buy those drop in fibre air filtres from Home Mart, cut a square big enough to cover the openings in your case and tape them inside your case (I suppose you could cover the whole outside but that wouldn't be very aestically appealing although it would cut down on noise)

Looking for some advice from an expert, Im clueless when It comes to this stuff.

Here's my list if I was building a machine for a similar goal:

Supermicro X8STE (a high end board-costs more but has Supermicro's stability and warranty. Buy here.)

Intel Core i7 920

3x 2GB Crucial RAM modules (Supermicro certifies they will work with that motherboard--seems like the first batch of i7 motherboards can be picky about the modules you feed them)

Quadro video card (much better performance under the apps you listed if you don't feel like you need it see next suggestion)

Nvidia 9600 (decent price, lite gaming if required and has HDCP so you can watch Blu-Ray)

Seagate 1,5 TB x2 (RAID 1 using the onboard controller)

Thanks

Jared

Ignore those who are suggesting to get a Core2. While it's probably not at the end of its lifespan just yet, do you want to take the chance of it being when you upgrade next time? Also few games, which they seem to indicate is the reason they have their rigs, are CPU bound. In applications the Core i7 destroys the competition:

Programme Core i7-965 X4 9550 Qx9770

MainConcept (min:sec) 3 15:58 31.37

24.49 MainConcept Pro (min:sec)10:08 18:44

14:49ProShow Producer 3.1 (min:sec) 10:19 20:10

12:52Premiere Pro CS3 (min:sec) 10:17 16:27

11:26Photoshop CS3 (min:sec) 1:50 2:48

1:55Cinebench 10 32-bit 15,398

8,179

12,175Cinebench 10 64-bit 18,96310,431

13,849Valve Map Compilation (min:sec) 2:052:47

1:56ScienceMark Overall 2,091.221,608.74

1,920.2ScienceMark Membench (MB/s) 13,3127,279

8,559.5

[slackula]

Did anybody ask what the machine in question will be used for yet?

The OP stated that 3dsmax (?) and Maya might be in play, but unless this machine is destined for some serious graphics rendering then maybe not.

The OP also stated that "Graphics card, I dont need anything to fancy this is not for gaming."

Strange! is this a media server or what?

[ignis]

do not install 64-bit XP. That was a bastard stepchild in the Windows line. Go for Vista 64-bit.

Yes go for Vista, is much better, I installed dual boot, Vista/XP, just never use XP anymore after getting used to Vista it is so much better than XP

I also have the Nvidia 9600 GT 512MB,DDR 3, for my use it is a very good card.

Power Supply I went for the 'CoolerMaster Real Power Pro 550W' was about 3,700 baht.. As I remember the 'CoolerMaster Real Power Pro 850W' was double that price.

No idea about Intel, as every PC I have built and owned I always go for AMD

Edited January 25, 2009 by ignis

[spacefruit]

i7 processors are at the bleeding edge of consumer level tech. The performance increase is just not noticeable yet for what I do, though I readily accept that developers will move to take advantage. However right now, my experience for lower level apps, ie not video encoding or specialized intensive apps, the lga775 processors offer exceptional value at the moment.

I am not shy to spend money on a machine but I cannot see the cost benefit of an i7 based machine yet. Maybe in 6-12 months. Even then, computing capabilities will be far in excess of my needs: photo editing, databases, home video, multimedia.

I7 systems give great numbers. I just don't need them, which for a toy hound like me is strangely frustrating.

[Jared]

Thanks for the info guys. As asked in a previous post the computer is only used for 3d animations in such packages as 3dsmax and Maya. So the faster the processor and the more Ram I have the quicker the application will be. Also the renders will be quicker. With cloth and water simulations I really need this computer to be as quick as possible. My current set up is fine but Ive had this machine for about 2 and half years and I need a second and possibly 3rd machine.

Currently I have an AMD64x2 4600, 4gb DDR, ATI Radeon x1900.

So it looks like I could either go for one of the I7 machines with as much Ram as I need. I will have to find out the maximum the programs can use.

Another option is to go for a quad processor which is good value for money. How about a dual quad set up, is that possible?

[Tywais]

How about a dual quad set up, is that possible?

It's possible but obviously not cheap. Intel and Tyan are tops in this category with their server boards but they normally run Xeon CPUs. Here are some choices.

Intel SkullTrail Intel BOXD5400XS Dual LGA 771 Intel 5400(Skulltrail)

http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/moth...xs-overview.htm

Price around $600.00 for th SkullTrail.

//edit - beware though that more cores/cpus does not necessarily equate to more performance or linear increase for a specific application. If the 3D app is written to use hyper/multi threading or multi-cpu then there will be a direct relationship. If not, it will not help at all.

Looks like this one can go up to 16 cores > Tyan

[Crushdepth]

Did anybody ask what the machine in question will be used for yet?

I think its an exercise in over-engineering, which of course is a worthy goal :-)

[saorsa]

I dont want to threadfuc_k this, but on a slightly related topic, where is the best place to buy kit like this in thailand?  I used to use Dabs and Scan when i was in the UK.  Is there a simlar online shop, or is it just as cheao to go to Pantip?

[jeffer]

I dont want to threadfuc_k this, but on a slightly related topic, where is the best place to buy kit like this in thailand?  I used to use Dabs and Scan when i was in the UK.  Is there a simlar online shop, or is it just as cheao to go to Pantip?

You will find a number of high end shops if you take a walk around the ground floor of Pantip, Jedi is the best known but there are at least four others selling high speed RAM, exotic cooling solutions and expensive cases. On the third? floor is Busitek. You can also find some high end items at the JIB and Hardware House branches. JIB are opening specialty high end branches now so presumably they have one at Pantip. I've almost always found Pantip to be either similarly priced or a little cheaper than the best online prices in Thailand.

[Jared]

OK, so I went to IT plaza in Korat and brought my new machine, No I7 processors in stock so Ill probably get another machine in 6 months or so.

Asus P5QL-E MotherBoard

Intel Quad Q8200

ATI Radeon 4850 IceQ

Kingston DDR2 4gb

Seagate 1.5TB

It was so cheap that I decided to get another one with a slightly lower spec.

Asus P5QL-E MotherBoard

Intel Quad Q8200

ATI Radeon 4670 IceQ

Kingston DDR2 4gb

Seagate 1TB

All for under 50k, also got mouse keyboard, dvd writers, speakers etc.

I tried buying a 64bit operating system but they didnt have any.

[Jared]

Quick question, how can I get a legitimate version of 64bit xp or vista?

If I buy one copy can i install it on multiple computers?

[Tywais]

OK, so I went to IT plaza in Korat and brought my new machine, No I7 processors in stock so Ill probably get another machine in 6 months or so.

Seagate 1.5TB

Seagate 1TB

One caveat. The Seagate 1TB and 1.5TB may have a firmware issue. There is a topic running here on this somewhere. Go to the Seagate forum and look up the details. Effectively it can brick itself after 2 or 3 months time. The firmware is SD15 and they just released a firmware upgrade Thursday to correct it that you can download from Seagate. Also, the forum will show where to get the Seagate Drive Detect software to verify the firmware number.

I looked deeply into this since I had just bought a 1TB Seagate and just so happens its firmware was SD15. Did the update to the new firmware over the weekend and went smoothly. Also, a student at the lab did his with no problems.

[slackula]

Quick question, how can I get a legitimate version of 64bit xp or vista?

1) Go to legit shop (or Amazon etc)

2) pay money

3) get software

If I buy one copy can i install it on multiple computers?

Legally? No.

[Jared]

Thanks Tywais, ill check that out tommorrow.

Slackula, I went round the whole of IT plaza trying to get a legit copy, each time they just reached for a 32 bit version, no one there had any idea what the 64bit version was.

Id like to buy it online but Ive had my fair share of stuff go missing in the post over the last few years so I was hoping for legit download.

[dave_boo]

Thanks Tywais, ill check that out tommorrow.

Slackula, I went round the whole of IT plaza trying to get a legit copy, each time they just reached for a 32 bit version, no one there had any idea what the 64bit version was.

Id like to buy it online but Ive had my fair share of stuff go missing in the post over the last few years so I was hoping for legit download.

Have you thought about installing Linux on the secondary computer (the one I'm assuming that your family is going to use)? Would help prevent those internet nasties....

[dotcom]

Plenty of legit Microsoft dealers in Bangkok. Book Chest & others. Pantip & Fortune Town have them.

[Simmo]

I could be wrong but I think the 32bit and 64bit version of retail Vista are on the same DVD - you choose when you install.

[dave_boo]

I could be wrong but I think the 32bit and 64bit version of retail Vista are on the same DVD - you choose when you install.

I believe that on Ultimate you're correct, but I'm sure that for a Retail, non-upgrade, version of Vista Home Premium you have to contact Microsoft for a 64bit disc. I also think you can utilise your 32 bit key, but only on one install (i.e. not on both a 32 bit install and a 64 bit install).