Financial Crisis

[midas]

[ mature.

All the money I have with Anglo Irish is in Euros, currently earning around 5%, which make me VERY VERY nervous, as it is well above any rate offered in Euros anywhere else on the planet.

It is painfully obvious that they are desperate to keep the depositors' cash and that is why the rates are so good. They have concentrated on commercial property loans, and now commercial property is becoming the next disaster looming up to write down asset value.

But in defense of this bank, I have been with them for a lot of years and totally satisfied with their service.

12, I will wait patiently for the response from Chaimai

to my question about the worsening situation in the UK?

But I have noticed on more than one occasion now this poster has conveniently dismissed

some questions with an abrupt accusation the poster is just " scaremongering ".

It is very easy to take on a lollipops and roses perspective when it's not his money he is investing

No response required scaremongerer

"what about the possibility of an Icelandic style bankruptcy in UK ( and Switzerland ) and if this happened to occur"

If's and but's again and all about the sky falling in.

IF it were to happen it is Armageddon. It WILL NOT happen in my opinion and will not be allowed to happen. Icekland is somewhat different.

But, the fact remains that is pointless for you to promote the disaster scenario and for me to argue that life goes on, and will slowly but surely get better, because we are looking at different crystal balls. And that is all we are doing.

I am only prepared to waste my time on an internet forum because I am currently in the UK waiting for my next visit to Thailand.

Remember, the Allied Irish deposit is as safe as Ireland itself. If Ireland goes t!ts up maybe my friend will be offered some of those lovely Irish assets at a knock-down price.

This situation is unprecedented and I accept that anything could happen. However, (and whilst I have precious little time for policitians - none, infact) I will not accept that we will see wholesale failures of governments. If you disagree then put it under your bed and start praying !

As this thread is open to specifically discuss the implications and possible outcome from the

financial crisis, I think it would be far more constructive if you refrain from labeling

everything which doesn't happen to coincide with your value system as being scaremongering

or representing Armageddon. We are only exploring various scenarios.

Please try to understand that what is happening around us in the financial world right now

is very new to me. I am only basing my questions and hypothetical scenarios on

facts and figures I have obtained from various financial resources. Where else do you suggest

I obtain this information? If I should not rely on the opinions of experts, please

suggest some alternative sources to back up your particular view of things ?

You'll understand I'm sure without knowing your background and expertise

and without supporting evidence from you, I am far more inclined to believe the opinion of

a wide range of renowned economists and financial experts whose views

are totally contradictory to yours.

Quite frankly for someone who appears to have the fiduciary responsibility of

investing someone else's hard earned money, I would've expected a

more " in - depth " response to my question.

[AlexLah]

I fully agree!

[flying]

No response required scaremongerer

"what about the possibility of an Icelandic style bankruptcy in UK ( and Switzerland ) and if this happened to occur"

If's and but's again and all about the sky falling in.

IF it were to happen it is Armageddon. It WILL NOT happen in my opinion and will not be allowed to happen. Icekland is somewhat different.

I wonder if the folks of Iceland & now many other areas thought exactly the same?

This is a thread of a topic called Financial Crisis but it is also a good study of call & response in a emergency.

You really do see many types of posts from folks. Some very worried...Some not...Some wondering what could be...Others saying if you dont look it is not happening.

I personally see nothing wrong with looking at whats happening with an open mind. I am well beyond the point of ever saying "It WILL NOT happen"

Your questions of when did this ever happen before in the western world is understandable to some degree but also short sighted imho

I think there is nothing wrong with looking at things & wondering as it helps to prepare or at least feel prepared? Many seem to think it is either it wont happen or it is Armageddon like you. I tend to think there is an awful lot between nothing & Armageddon. I also think it is possible like in any scenario to be a little bit prepared.

Iceland especially offers us a free education. You can watch & read & see a mini version of how things could go in many places. You can learn from that quite a bit or not your choice. There are folks from Iceland that post daily on forums if your interested just look & read.....or not.

When you said

I will not accept that we will see wholesale failures of governments.

I very much hope that is true & I am sure we all do. But.........

If a countries currency fails then for the most part so has the government.

Just because they stay on in a Militant capacity does not mean they have not already failed.

Edited February 16, 2009 by flying

[Naam]

After seeing Naam's wonderfull piece of prime real estate, I suddenly realised he might run into a problem with water supply so I made up a quick drawing for an installation that could provide him with fresh water made from sea water.

what's the use for water as long as beer is freely available?

[gregb]

IF it were to happen it is Armageddon. It WILL NOT happen in my opinion and will not be allowed to happen. Icekland is somewhat different.

....

This situation is unprecedented and I accept that anything could happen. However, (and whilst I have precious little time for policitians - none, infact) I will not accept that we will see wholesale failures of governments. If you disagree then put it under your bed and start praying !

And yet, just a few short years ago a major superpower went completely belly up. Currency crisis, government failure, empire decay, the whole bit. Do you honestly think the powerful people running that show wanted that to happen? Don't you think they would have prevented it if they could? The Soviet Union had arguably the most powerful military in existence, and they simply broke apart.

How does that match your preconceptions that powerful nations can't just up and fold?

I'll agree the current situation is unprecedented in some ways, but collapse doesn't mean Armeggedon. In fact, collapse of complex societies is the one constant throughout history. If you're not convinced, I'll wager you any amount of money you want that it is *GUARANTEED* to happen, as long as you don't make me put a timeframe on it. The timing is hard to predict, but the collapse of all that you see around you is a near certainty.

Saying it won't be allowed to happen is giving way too much credibility to unseen forces out there. Who is the all powerful force that will prevent this? Why do you believe they have these superhuman abilities to prevent it? Don't you think the Soviet sphere had an equivalent institution that was dead set on maintaining the status quo? And yet, they failed....how is that possible? Are you going to blame it entirely on external enemies? If so, don't you think the West has external enemies who would love to see it go down in flames? It's a complex question.

The central banks and wealthy elite can direct policy for sure, but even they can not stop the inevitable. There will come a day when wholesale failures of governments are simply commonplace, small warlords rule over smaller fiefdoms, and the mighty empires of today are nothing but a memory in the pages of history. If it can happen to Rome, it can happen to us.

Don't fight it. Don't deny it. Count on it. You're living the start of that collapse right now.

[Merangue]

I simply do not agree that the world as we know it is about to collapse.

Yes there are very large and very painful (for some) problems in the global economy and yes the UK is one of those taking a beating at the moment but i do not for one minute believe it is about to go under.

Using the the Soviet union as an example is a bit far fetched as an analogy. The differences between the two situations, the causes and the political ramifications are poles apart.

Simple fact is that the global economy is cocked up for pretty much everyone.

EVERY country is feeling the bite and some are in a worse position than the UK. Greece, Ireland, Germany from Europe, Japan has just posted some really scary figures and considering they are an export based economy, that is downright nasty. If Japan is getting hit that bad then what about Korea and Thailand, both of whom have a strong export economy for similar goods to that of Japan.

I have said in another post that the UK is actually not that badly placed. Not having a strongly Export based economy, we will not be as badly hit by the Global slow down as other nations. Bizarrely, owing to a poor exchange rate, we will actually be likely to increase our exports rather than decrease them.

Contruction will continue to slow down dramatically and there will be few new houses built in the next couple of years but look out for all the smaller home improvement business that start up and begin to flourish. hel_l, if i had the money and the knowledge, i would probably be arranging for a start up on a business building extensions and conservatories right now.

The UK's expertise is often in the Hi Tech industries and the finance world. That expertise has not been lost and will come into its own once again. The city of London is too big a power on the global economy and by its very nature it will rescue itself.

Yes it is not good for people who have large investments, nor is it good news for those relying on a strong exchange rate to live their comfortable lives in Thailand but for the average UK citizen who does not lose his job, there will be little difference to the way of life he leads now.

Albeit he may not have quite so many holidays, or possibly he will not go as far but he will still have a good standard of living and plenty of food to eat. His kids will still get a good schooling and they will not be people on the streets freezing to death on every corner.

These constant headlines and threads with 'DOOMED' or similar in them are over the top and bear no real resemblance to the actual facts on the ground.

Yes there are problems but instead of centering on the banks that are doing badly why not mention the ones who have actually posted figures that are better than expected? Barclays as an example?

The very fact that the GBP is not a part of the Euro will mean it is easier to manipulate and therefore with proper care and attention it may well rebound sooner rather than later.

Why is it always how bad everything is for the UK when in actuall fact the UK projection is not really any worse off than most european countries and in fact is better than some. Even after all the fright and doomsaying over the last few months, the UK is still there doggy paddling its way to safer water. The biggest worries for many countries have not hit them yet. The Eurozone is in for some real finance earthquakes especially if one of the major Euro countries takes a big pounding ( Germany?) but the UK is coming through its bad times already and is probably close to or already at its lowest ebb.

The bad news is being thrown out time after time and yet most if not all commentators agree that at the moment the UK £ is undervalued right now. That means that people believe it can and probably will improve over the next 24 months and will in fact gain ground on those currencies that are doing relatively well right now.

[Chaimai]

Don't you think the Soviet sphere had an equivalent institution that was dead set on maintaining the status quo? And yet, they failed....how is that possible? Are you going to blame it entirely on external enemies? If so, don't you think the West has external enemies who would love to see it go down in flames? It's a complex question.

The central banks and wealthy elite can direct policy for sure, but even they can not stop the inevitable. There will come a day when wholesale failures of governments are simply commonplace, small warlords rule over smaller fiefdoms, and the mighty empires of today are nothing but a memory in the pages of history. If it can happen to Rome, it can happen to us.

Don't fight it. Don't deny it. Count on it. You're living the start of that collapse right now.

I think Russia was slightly different and there is an argument that it had been coming for some time. Not the issue under discussion here because it was far more than just financial. This is the global financial crisis but I also accept things are far more complicated than that and the current situation provides opportunities for all sorts of interested parties to make their moves.

I still don't see the collapse you speak of. Not because I don't want to, it is just that I believe that the 'inevitable' is a different picture to the one you describe. Yes, I have to put some faith in power/powers to arrest the collapse you describe but I believe some lessons have been learned from history.

[midas]

I have said in another post that the UK is actually not that badly placed. Not having a strongly Export based economy, we will not be as badly hit by the Global slow down as other nations. Bizarrely, owing to a poor exchange rate, we will actually be likely to increase our exports rather than decrease them.

The very fact that the GBP is not a part of the Euro will mean it is easier to manipulate and therefore with proper care and attention it may well rebound sooner rather than later.

Why is it always how bad everything is for the UK when in actuall fact the UK projection is not really any worse off than most european countries and in fact is better than some. Even after all the fright and doomsaying over the last few months, the UK is still there doggy paddling its way to safer water. [/bT]he biggest worries for many countries have not hit them yet. The Eurozone is in for some real finance earthquakes especially if one of the major Euro countries takes a big pounding ( Germany?) but the UK is coming through its bad times already and is probably close to or already at its lowest ebb.

Merangue

What you say is fascinating and I would be very interested to read recent material you may have found from economists

and others who have explained the reason for your rather unique view.

At the moment I am only relying on what I have read from people such as Robert Pretcher (January 2009, Elliot Wave forecast),

Nadeem Walayat, Jim Rogers, Dan Atkinson, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, Philip Delves Broughton, Mike Shedlock,

Adrian Ash, John Stepek, Grant Thornton.

These and many more financial experts disagree with you and predict the British government policies are pushing the U.K into bankruptcy.

And when you say " increase our exports rather than decrease them." - exports of what precisely are you referring to

that you believe are so important as to be able to lift the UK from this mess?

Edited February 17, 2009 by midas

[midas]

I still don't see the collapse you speak of. Not because I don't want to, it is just that I believe that the 'inevitable' is a different picture to the one you describe. Yes, I have to put some faith in power/powers to arrest the collapse you describe but I believe some lessons have been learned from history.

Well Chaimai, I only hope you are putting your faith in the right people because this article today suggests they haven't got a bloody clue

themselves - let's check back again next week shall we and see if Mervyn King has changed his mind yet AGAIN

From The Times

February 17, 2009

New fears on fate of economy

Gra'inne Gilmore and Philip Webster

The Bank of England's Deputy Governor warned yesterday that the recession could be even worse than it suggested

less than a week ago.

Charles Bean said that there was "roughly a three in four" chance that the economy would contract by more than the 4

per cent predicted by Mervyn King last Wednesday.

His warning, the starkest by a senior bank figure, comes as fears mount that the UK is heading towards a

period of deflation. The retail prices index (RPI) is tipped to fall below zero when figures are published this morning.

Mr King admitted last week that the UK was already in a deep recession. His forecast --- that economic

growth would fall by 4 per cent during 2009 --- would amount to the most severe peacetime recession since 1931

full article here :- http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle5748992.ece

[Pakboong]

After seeing Naam's wonderfull piece of prime real estate, I suddenly realised he might run into a problem with water supply so I made up a quick drawing for an installation that could provide him with fresh water made from sea water.

what's the use for water as long as beer is freely available?

I argued this with my urologist and he insisted on water.

[samuibeachcomber]

has anyone noticed the change in rhetoric coming out of the white house and downing street?it began with a tone of "we are in control,we put in place packages to deal with this"now its warning of dire consequences for the economies of these 2 countries.so are we now being set up for something(take away any future shock/outrage from the public)?

[quiksilva]

has anyone noticed the change in rhetoric coming out of the white house and downing street?it began with a tone of "we are in control,we put in place packages to deal with this"now its warning of dire consequences for the economies of these 2 countries.so are we now being set up for something(take away any future shock/outrage from the public)?

Bradley Schiller writing for the Wall Street Journal has an interesting take on that see here: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123457303244386495.html his article compares current economic woes to those of the Great Depression and other declines.

[samuibeachcomber]

has anyone noticed the change in rhetoric coming out of the white house and downing street?it began with a tone of "we are in control,we put in place packages to deal with this"now its warning of dire consequences for the economies of these 2 countries.so are we now being set up for something(take away any future shock/outrage from the public)?

Bradley Schiller writing for the Wall Street Journal has an interesting take on that see here: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123457303244386495.html his article compares current economic woes to those of the Great Depression and other declines.

its certainly true re the unemployment figures,but i dont think we have any idea of the final numbers until the end of 2009,then it may look like the great depression numbers.the california govt. have just annouced they are to shed 20,000 jobs.

[lannarebirth]

has anyone noticed the change in rhetoric coming out of the white house and downing street?it began with a tone of "we are in control,we put in place packages to deal with this"now its warning of dire consequences for the economies of these 2 countries.so are we now being set up for something(take away any future shock/outrage from the public)?

Bradley Schiller writing for the Wall Street Journal has an interesting take on that see here: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123457303244386495.html his article compares current economic woes to those of the Great Depression and other declines.

This one's better:

http://www.villagevoice.com/2009-01-28/new...rld-s-economy/1

[samuibeachcomber]

another thing, this economic crisis really suites the financial sector,some of them are making more money than before the crisis was brought on, with the continual bailouts,and how well does it suite the auto industry,that was going to collapse anyway due to them not having put in place any restructuring,now they being made to do so at the tax payers expense.And how well does it suite the oil industry(they are still making billions) the heat is now off them re the outcry over global warming and the worlds desire to replace oil as the main source of energy.All this has no gone on the backburner because of the financial banking sector disaster.Whether by design or not some business sectors will be rubbing their hands with glee.

[lannarebirth]

The same will happen in western markets, probably pretty soon. Most major baks will resort to daytrading the US treasury to get their earnings up. JPM and GS will for sure. This is when you want to get back on the side of the manipulators.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home

[midas]

has anyone noticed the change in rhetoric coming out of the white house and downing street?it began with a tone of "we are in control,we put in place packages to deal with this"now its warning of dire consequences for the economies of these 2 countries.so are we now being set up for something(take away any future shock/outrage from the public)?

Bradley Schiller writing for the Wall Street Journal has an interesting take on that see here: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123457303244386495.html his article compares current economic woes to those of the Great Depression and other declines.

You are correct quicksilva-it's a very interesting article. But for the benefit of people like Chaimai

I really think President Obama needs to be told to stop scaremongering !

I was curious about the possible reasons why a President would want to be painting such a gloomy picture?

I can think of two possibilities and I'm sure there are more and let us see what others think.

1. Maybe he is just making things sound bad so if he can engineer a recovery he can turn around

and say look how bad things were and I rescued the USA so I deserve a second term in office.

2. He is slowly drip feeding the American public gloomy information so that they are

psychologically prepared for some kind of mandatory transition later on?

Any other theories?

Edited February 17, 2009 by midas

[flying]

This one's better:

http://www.villagevoice.com/2009-01-28/new...rld-s-economy/1

You know I think that is about the best piece I have read so far.

But you know it makes you even more mad to read something like this.

Something that show clearly shows how wrong it is & also shows how more than

likely they will in fact get away with it again.

I agree Eric Holder will never go after this & we may see a token or two but thats about it. In fact once Obama chose his cabinet I really lost any hope & I did in fact have some. I knew he wcould not run in & swap all for better but I thought there would be the possiblity of some change. Then I saw his cabinet choices

I really wish it were possible for us all to do something. Some alternative to it all. Something that just abandons them & their whole game. We still need an alternative to this totally corrupted & corruptible system.

Personally I am getting off the merry go round as much as possible in these next years. What other choice is there?

[flying]

I really think President Obama needs to be told to stop scaremongering !

Ever see that news report that counts how many times Bush would say Terror when he would address the public? Would have been funny if it weren't so true.

He used it like a whip.

[flying]

Dubai Becoming a Ghost Town

Foreigners are fleeing Dubai in droves, abandoning their previously glitzy lives as the city feels the crunch of the economic downturn. With thousands of work visas being cancelled daily, what once was a bustling city with a booming economic future is now the backdrop for out-of-work financiers drowning their sorrows at the neighborhood coffee shops. As a full 90% of Dubai's population are foreign, the economic situation is looking grim for the UAE city.

Mortgages are going unpaid, and there’s a reported 3,000 cars abandoned (and not fully paid for) at the airport as people leave the country (and their debts) behind. The Dubai government has enacted a vow of secrecy, making it a crime to damage the country’s reputation or economy, punishable by fines of up to 1 million dirhams (about $272,000), effectively muzzling local media reporting on the crisis. Even though there have been threats of debtors prison for those that skip town with balances owed, so far, no one seems to be getting busted for “living and dashing.” Is this the end of air-conditioned sand dreams? I sure hope not.

http://www.blackbookmag.com/article/dubai-...ghost-town/6356

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tKmRRC-Njc...ad.php?t=349900

[jcon]

Dubai Becoming a Ghost Town

Foreigners are fleeing Dubai in droves...

As a full 90% of Dubai's population are foreign, the economic situation is looking grim for the UAE city.

Mortgages are going unpaid, and there's a reported 3,000 cars abandoned

Whoa... anybody know any shippers out of Dubai... maybe we can go in on a couple of containers.... what do you Brits call it? A "whip-around?"

disaster.

[midas]

I find it increasingly difficult to work out the psyche of the American administration

after the discovery of Islamic terrorist training camps within America.

The documentary I saw showed reporters being stopped by angry security guards in balaclavas

from entering some of these sites all over America. ( See the location map of these

terrorist training camps on this web site http://www.christianaction.org )

Reportedly, the Pakistani who is behind all these camps is the same person who

tricked that reporter a few years ago ( can't remember his name -Daniel somebody )

into attending a meeting but who was then captured by the terrorists and eventually beheaded.

This was all over the television at that time - I'm sure you'll remember it.

The activities inside these camps have been secretly videoed and include

paramilitary training in preparation for another expected attack within the USA.

Does anyone else think this is bizarre or is it just me?

I don't understand why law-enforcement officials are not closing these camps down NOW?

Edited February 17, 2009 by midas

[stumonster]

http://www.villagevoice.com/2009-01-28/new...rld-s-economy/1

that was an excellent read

please post your good links as they are appreciated

Whoa... anybody know any shippers out of Dubai... maybe we can go in on a couple of containers.... what do you Brits call it? A "whip-around?"

is your father the head Thai customs honcho ? wouldn't want to see more ferraris crushed for the television cameras

[henryalleman]

assuming the financial crisis gets worse i have made a bid on an appropriate alternative home that comes with rather low maintenance and utility cost:

I prepared already a villa in a guarded compound, even have outdoors toilet and bathroom.

[midas]

This one's better:

http://www.villagevoice.com/2009-01-28/new...rld-s-economy/1

Lana I absolutely agree with other TV members that this was one of the best articles I have read about this.

I am left with the question - if the gross value of these credit derivative commitments is about $596 trillion and some due,

now, if it was such a big effort to pass the TARP Bill for less than a measlry 1 Trillion, how will our financial system

cope with what is to come?

[Merangue]

I have said in another post that the UK is actually not that badly placed. Not having a strongly Export based economy, we will not be as badly hit by the Global slow down as other nations. Bizarrely, owing to a poor exchange rate, we will actually be likely to increase our exports rather than decrease them.

The very fact that the GBP is not a part of the Euro will mean it is easier to manipulate and therefore with proper care and attention it may well rebound sooner rather than later.

Why is it always how bad everything is for the UK when in actuall fact the UK projection is not really any worse off than most european countries and in fact is better than some. Even after all the fright and doomsaying over the last few months, the UK is still there doggy paddling its way to safer water. [/bT]he biggest worries for many countries have not hit them yet. The Eurozone is in for some real finance earthquakes especially if one of the major Euro countries takes a big pounding ( Germany?) but the UK is coming through its bad times already and is probably close to or already at its lowest ebb.

Merangue

What you say is fascinating and I would be very interested to read recent material you may have found from economists

and others who have explained the reason for your rather unique view.

At the moment I am only relying on what I have read from people such as Robert Pretcher (January 2009, Elliot Wave forecast),

Nadeem Walayat, Jim Rogers, Dan Atkinson, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, Philip Delves Broughton, Mike Shedlock,

Adrian Ash, John Stepek, Grant Thornton.

These and many more financial experts disagree with you and predict the British government policies are pushing the U.K into bankruptcy.

And when you say " increase our exports rather than decrease them." - exports of what precisely are you referring to

that you believe are so important as to be able to lift the UK from this mess?

Are these the same expert economists who predicted the whole mess before it happened?

There are no doubt other financial experts who think what Brown and Co are doing is correct. The fact i do not have a list of names of people who also failed to predict or effect the crash years ago does not change that. Brown and Co are acting on advice given to them by 'other' experts as well. Do you really believe they have woken up one morning and decided to against every experts opinion? whether you agree with their actions or not i would suggest to you that they themselves are in the 'believe the opposing expert camp'.

Is Obama wrong to do what he is doing? Many experts seem to think so but again i cannot name these experts. However there are 'other' experts advising him to do exactly as he is doing now.

Why do people put so much value on self interested spokesmen such as Soros? Why not use their own eyes and their own reason?

I am on the ground so to speak where i can see what job types in the UK are crashing and what is actually increasing and whilst we lose Woolworths and MFI, the likes of B&M, home & Bargain and Peacocks are expanding.

Contruction is in turmoil right now but in the near future expect to see lots of small renovation and conservatory businesses spring up. Work will start to rise again just in a different way.

Exporting nations such as Germany, Japan, Korea etc are beginning to post some very bad figures. Developing world economies such as India are in trouble. Even the likes of Australia's currency is suffering badly.

what makes you think they are not in deep trouble even compared to the UK. We have laready taken the biggest hits, The exporting nations who rely heavily on their exports are in a far worse long term position.

As for exports from the UK?

Machine tools, electric power equipment, automation equipment, railroad equipment, shipbuilding, aircraft, motor vehicles and parts, electronics and communications equipment, metals, chemicals, coal, petroleum, paper and paper products, food processing, textiles, clothing, other consumer goods.

All of which are doing well with the low exchange rate at the moment.

Yes the economic outlook is bad but it is not the end of the world. Nor do i put much faith in the words of self interested so called experts, who are a large part of the problem in the first place.

[meom]

Net notional amount is probably 10% of the gross and if everybody defaults and nobody recovers anything then we're in deep sh.it. Don't see that happen though.

[meom]

As for exports from the UK?

Machine tools, electric power equipment, automation equipment, railroad equipment, shipbuilding, aircraft, motor vehicles and parts, electronics and communications equipment, metals, chemicals, coal, petroleum, paper and paper products, food processing, textiles, clothing, other consumer goods.

All of which are doing well with the low exchange rate at the moment.

UK debt export will be the next big thing

[Naam]

This one's better:

http://www.villagevoice.com/2009-01-28/new...rld-s-economy/1

Lana I absolutely agree with other TV members that this was one of the best articles I have read about this.

I am left with the question - if the gross value of these credit derivative commitments is about $596 trillion and some due,

now, if it was such a big effort to pass the TARP Bill for less than a measlry 1 Trillion, how will our financial system

cope with what is to come?

what exactly is to come Midas? did anybody anywhere at any time claim that all derivatives (credit and others) are toxic, not covered, will blow up in our faces or swamp the planet with a deluge? why jump to conclusions based on assumptions?

next thing we know is Hank Farang from Ratchaburi reads TV, sees the figure of 596trillion, takes your "what is to come" literally, shoots his family, all in-laws as well as out-laws and jumps into his septic tank because he assumes that his pension will be used in future to fight the bad derivatives.

it's about time that realism instead of far fetched and wild assumptions returns to this thread. i mention this because i'm convinced that the majority of TV readers don't know what a credit derivative is.

[Chaimai]

it's about time that realism instead of far fetched and wild assumptions returns to this thread. i mention this because i'm convinced that the majority of TV readers don't know what a credit derivative is.

I know what a derivative is, but I would still welcome a return to realism.