Financial Crisis

[Naam]

I was guessing part of their mission is to provide security for the area. I am guessing the Suez Canal is a biggie in terms of security requirements????

that's for sure not the case. the Suez Canal is located on the other side of the Arabian peninsula and too far away from the Arabian (some say Persian) Gulf where the 5th fleet has its base in Bahrain. it would take days for the fleet to reach Suez.

the actual task of the fleet is to "protect" the major oil fields which are located around the gulf and of course assist the land forces of any future "coalition of the willing" should there be another "Desert Storm" or "<insert country> Freedom" or "Let's Bomb the Mullahs back to Stone Age" and last not least (if the latter should happen) preventing the Mullahs to block the Straits of Hormuz with sunken ships to interrupt the flow of crude oil.

but whatever, as far as Bahrain is concerned my personal view is that the White House is between a rock and a hard place. those in power in the Emirates, Oman, Qatar, Kuwait and especially Saudi Arabia had to realise that Uncle Sam would withdraw any support and drop them like a hot potato (Hosni Mubarak) should there be a significant movement of their subjects to depose them and their regime.

[Naam]

double posting, sorry!

Edited February 20, 2011 by Naam

[craigt3365]

Interesting comment I just heard on BBC. I guess Saudi Arabia is wondering about how much the US will support them if riots erupt in the kingdom.

What a mess it is there right now! Unreal....

[midas]

Interesting comment I just heard on BBC. I guess Saudi Arabia is wondering about how much the US will support them if riots erupt in the kingdom.

What a mess it is there right now! Unreal....

Now even Kuwait and Morocco as well as Iraq are joining the chaos

[midas]

Let's wait and see but I can almost predict the outcome....

LaoPo

was this your prediction ?

UPDATE 1-Iranian warships pass through Suez Canal-Iran TV

warships sail through the canal into the Mediterranean for the first time since 1979

http://af.reuters.com/article/egyptNews/idAFLDE71J02O20110220

Edited February 20, 2011 by midas

[MJP]

Good news all round I say, good to see these folks finally standing up to their aggressors.

Just need to keep a keen eye on what fills the void.

Now, all we need is for the peoples of the UK and US to stop watching X-Factor for a few episodes and march on The City and Wall Street and we should be back to normal in no time.

[beechguy]

I was guessing part of their mission is to provide security for the area. I am guessing the Suez Canal is a biggie in terms of security requirements????

that's for sure not the case. the Suez Canal is located on the other side of the Arabian peninsula and too far away from the Arabian (some say Persian) Gulf where the 5th fleet has its base in Bahrain. it would take days for the fleet to reach Suez.

the actual task of the fleet is to "protect" the major oil fields which are located around the gulf and of course assist the land forces of any future "coalition of the willing" should there be another "Desert Storm" or "<insert country> Freedom" or "Let's Bomb the Mullahs back to Stone Age" and last not least (if the latter should happen) preventing the Mullahs to block the Straits of Hormuz with sunken ships to interrupt the flow of crude oil.

but whatever, as far as Bahrain is concerned my personal view is that the White House is between a rock and a hard place. those in power in the Emirates, Oman, Qatar, Kuwait and especially Saudi Arabia had to realise that Uncle Sam would withdraw any support and drop them like a hot potato (Hosni Mubarak) should there be a significant movement of their subjects to depose them and their regime.

I have to slightly disagree on a couple of points, the 5th Fleet Headquarters are in Bahrain but their Area of Operations extend around the peninsula to the African coast as far south as Kenya. Also, they do not depend only on U.S. Navy ships, a number of countries are conducting operations with them. Their primary mission is to protect the gulf region, but it wouldn't be a probelm to conduct operations to protect the Suez if it became threatened, especially since they keep at least one aircraft carrier in gulf.

So far as Bahrain, it has been very helpful in the past to use the base there, but I don't think it is essential. Though it probably depends on the attitude of the other countries and how threatened by the Iranians they feel.

The base in Bahrain is small (approx. 10 acres or 40,000 sq. meters) plus a little ramp space at the airport, and I don't think all that difficult to move if it became necessary. Except for security forces, personnel didn't even live on the base until about 6 or 7 years ago. Anyway, I don't think the Navy would be losing a lot if they pulled out, but the Bahrani economy would definitely notice it. As to the current uprising it's just another round there, they have had probelms on a regular basis, but they may actually accomplish something this time.

Edited February 20, 2011 by beechguy

[Naam]

Interesting comment I just heard on BBC. I guess Saudi Arabia is wondering about how much the US will support them if riots erupt in the kingdom.

What a mess it is there right now! Unreal....

Now even Kuwait and Morocco as well as Iraq are joining the chaos

let's not get carried away and stick to facts.

BBC News | Middle East | Egyptians riot in Kuwait

Kuwaiti security forces use teargas and live bullets to regain control of a residential area of the capital after two days of rioting by Egyptian workers.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/500708.stm

Thirty people were wounded in Friday's clashes in Kuwait between security forces and stateless Arabs demanding citizenship, security sources ...

www.deccanherald.com › International

the flights are booked and the aircrafts are waiting to deport the rioters. that's what the Kuwaitis did with the Palestinians after Saddam was pushed out and that's what they are going to do now.

a zillion poor foreigners are waiting to go to Kuwait to serve the noble and arrogant Kuwaitis for deplorably low salaries. same same and not different as far as the other Gulf states except Iraq and Iran are concerned.

[Naam]

Their primary mission is to protect the gulf region, but it wouldn't be a probelm to conduct operations to protect the Suez if it became threatened, especially since they keep at least one aircraft carrier in gulf.

but there is nothing really to protect. no aircraft carrier can prevent that ships are sunk blocking the canal as in 1956 during the Suez crisis Nasser initiated.

the 5th Fleet Headquarters are in Bahrain but their Area of Operations extend around the peninsula to the African coast as far south as Kenya.

that must be the reason why there are no more Somali pirates in this region

[beechguy]

Their primary mission is to protect the gulf region, but it wouldn't be a probelm to conduct operations to protect the Suez if it became threatened, especially since they keep at least one aircraft carrier in gulf.

but there is nothing really to protect. no aircraft carrier can prevent that ships are sunk blocking the canal as in 1956 during the Suez crisis Nasser initiated.

the 5th Fleet Headquarters are in Bahrain but their Area of Operations extend around the peninsula to the African coast as far south as Kenya.

that must be the reason why there are no more Somali pirates in this region

There are plenty of other nations operating there, perhaps people should also take it up with the German, UK, and Australian governements if they aren't satisfied. As to the aircraft carrier, perhaps governemnts learned a lesson from the past and they will decide where the ships get sunk if they think another incident were to take place again.

Peronally, I think it's time for the U.S. to pack up and go home from several areas, Europe for one, Africa for another. When the gulf or the Suez does get plugged up, the Arabs can deal with it when they start running out of money.

Edited February 20, 2011 by beechguy

[churchill]

Isn't 95% of the problem rising food prices - As the US prints - so food costs go up for people who are only just surviving - So 1USD can be the difference between survival and death in Africa , especially for children /

The reserve currency status of the USD cannot survive as it is / perhaps the new reserve currency should be based on a basket of commodies - food and energy /

I saw this the other day 'meat consumption per capita (gartman) US 130Kg, EU 100Kg, China 44Kg, India 7Kg -- it takes 6Kg of corn and soybeans to produce 1Kg of meat'

Is this reflected in true prices ? if not it should be /

[LaoPo]

Maybe the 5th fleet is also trying to help stabilize an extremely volatile area? Keeping the Iranian interests at bay? Protecting shipping going through the canal? For sure it's about oil...but not just about oil going to the US. Sometimes the US does try to protect other countries interests...

Oh sure: that's why I wrote: "......one of the tasks of the 5th fleet is to protect the oil on it's way to the US....."

My main point to the present situation is that America won't and can't act in the same way as they did with Tunisia and Egypt....BECAUSE Bahrain is extremely important to them

But, the unrest is spreading and exploding in the Arab world; however, the regimes in the other countries are now shooting with real bullets...not rubber ones.

I watched an interview with the crown prince of Bahrain yesterday and he looked honestly worried and called for a dialogue with ALL parties and promised a better future for every group...hmmm, really?

The problem is that they promised the same 10 years ago and nothing happened.

If you're a dead poor guy and you have to swim in a pool of oil and you see the rich guys driving around in their luxury cars, with beautiful women, living in palaces but you're not even able to buy proper food for your family...what do you do?

Sit, wait or protest?

LaoPo

Edited February 20, 2011 by LaoPo

[LaoPo]

Let's wait and see but I can almost predict the outcome....

LaoPo

was this your prediction ?

UPDATE 1-Iranian warships pass through Suez Canal-Iran TV

warships sail through the canal into the Mediterranean for the first time since 1979

http://af.reuters.co...E71J02O20110220

Only part of the expected outcome since the ships did NOT enter the Suez Canal yet but planned to enter the canal Monday Feb 20th and we can only hope that Israel keeps it cool. I think the decision by the present military regime in Egypt was done too hasty and they could have postponed the decision a little.

I keep my fingers crossed and hope there will not be even more unrest since Israel staid on the sideline of the Arab unrest, so far....but if they will be dragged into the multi-country conflict because of these 2 ships we may expect a dramatic fall in all stock markets by next week in case Israel decides to sink those ships to the bottom of the Gulf or later in the Mediterranean; They're too clever to sink them IN the canal; or maybe they just capture them...? Just speculating of course.

I said it before.....Iran is pushing to the limits and see how far they can go by sending these 2 ships which, IMO, is absolutely unnecessary to send them to the Mediterranean for training purposes as they claim

.

They just want to see how Israel and the US are going to react....

LaoPo

[MJP]

Atrocities happening in Libya.

Libya protests: 140 'massacred' as Gaddafi sends in snipers to crush dissent

[beechguy]

Maybe the 5th fleet is also trying to help stabilize an extremely volatile area? Keeping the Iranian interests at bay? Protecting shipping going through the canal? For sure it's about oil...but not just about oil going to the US. Sometimes the US does try to protect other countries interests...

Oh sure: that's why I wrote: "......one of the tasks of the 5th fleet is to protect the oil on it's way to the US....."

My main point to the present situation is that America won't and can't act in the same way as they did with Tunisia and Egypt....BECAUSE Bahrain is extremely important to them

But, the unrest is spreading and exploding in the Arab world; however, the regimes in the other countries are now shooting with real bullets...not rubber ones.

I watched an interview with the crown prince of Bahrain yesterday and he looked honestly worried and called for a dialogue with ALL parties and promised a better future for every group...hmmm, really?

The problem is that they promised the same 10 years ago and nothing happened.

If you're a dead poor guy and you have to swim in a pool of oil and you see the rich guys driving around in their luxury cars, with beautiful women, living in palaces but you're not even able to buy proper food for your family...what do you do?

Sit, wait or protest?

LaoPo

Why is Bahrain extremely important to the U.S.? As to the conditions there, no doubt more should be done, but I think there have been significant improvements there over the last ten years.

[LaoPo]

Why is Bahrain extremely important to the U.S.? As to the conditions there, no doubt more should be done, but I think there have been significant improvements there over the last ten years.

I think the Pentagon knows a lot better than I do.

LaoPo

[beechguy]

Why is Bahrain extremely important to the U.S.? As to the conditions there, no doubt more should be done, but I think there have been significant improvements there over the last ten years.

I think the Pentagon knows a lot better than I do.

LaoPo

If they say so, I think they are just being diplomatic. The fact is they could pack up and move the whole operation to Qatar or some other willing country in 3-6 months, maybe less.

[craigt3365]

Isn't 95% of the problem rising food prices - As the US prints - so food costs go up for people who are only just surviving - So 1USD can be the difference between survival and death in Africa , especially for children /

The reserve currency status of the USD cannot survive as it is / perhaps the new reserve currency should be based on a basket of commodies - food and energy /

I saw this the other day 'meat consumption per capita (gartman) US 130Kg, EU 100Kg, China 44Kg, India 7Kg -- it takes 6Kg of corn and soybeans to produce 1Kg of meat'

Is this reflected in true prices ? if not it should be /

Rising food prices have little to do with the US Dollar. Pretty much a supply and demand thing. Was just watching a BBC series on Ethiopia. Prices are up something like 500% due to flooding, drought, etc. Nothing to do with the dollar.

[lannarebirth]

Isn't 95% of the problem rising food prices - As the US prints - so food costs go up for people who are only just surviving - So 1USD can be the difference between survival and death in Africa , especially for children /

The reserve currency status of the USD cannot survive as it is / perhaps the new reserve currency should be based on a basket of commodies - food and energy /

I saw this the other day 'meat consumption per capita (gartman) US 130Kg, EU 100Kg, China 44Kg, India 7Kg -- it takes 6Kg of corn and soybeans to produce 1Kg of meat'

Is this reflected in true prices ? if not it should be /

Rising food prices have little to do with the US Dollar. Pretty much a supply and demand thing. Was just watching a BBC series on Ethiopia. Prices are up something like 500% due to flooding, drought, etc. Nothing to do with the dollar.

If by "supply and demand" you mean supply and demand of futures contracts available for speculation, then I'd have to agree with you.

[MJP]

Isn't 95% of the problem rising food prices - As the US prints - so food costs go up for people who are only just surviving - So 1USD can be the difference between survival and death in Africa , especially for children /

The reserve currency status of the USD cannot survive as it is / perhaps the new reserve currency should be based on a basket of commodies - food and energy /

I saw this the other day 'meat consumption per capita (gartman) US 130Kg, EU 100Kg, China 44Kg, India 7Kg -- it takes 6Kg of corn and soybeans to produce 1Kg of meat'

Is this reflected in true prices ? if not it should be /

Rising food prices have little to do with the US Dollar. Pretty much a supply and demand thing. Was just watching a BBC series on Ethiopia. Prices are up something like 500% due to flooding, drought, etc. Nothing to do with the dollar.

If by "supply and demand" you mean supply and demand of futures contracts available for speculation, then I'd have to agree with you.

Spot on. If they want to buy something make these devils take physical delivery of it.

'Um, Charles?'

'Yes, Tarquin.'

'There's a delivery at reception, 100,000 tonnes of wheat. Sandra's asking where you want to put it, the driver says he's parked on double yellow lines.'

Let the market decide they say. Well, if only the real market could, eh.

[midas]

Let's wait and see but I can almost predict the outcome....

LaoPo

was this your prediction ?

UPDATE 1-Iranian warships pass through Suez Canal-Iran TV

warships sail through the canal into the Mediterranean for the first time since 1979

http://af.reuters.co...E71J02O20110220

Only part of the expected outcome since the ships did NOT enter the Suez Canal yet but planned to enter the canal Monday Feb 20th and we can only hope that Israel keeps it cool. I think the decision by the present military regime in Egypt was done too hasty and they could have postponed the decision a little.

I keep my fingers crossed and hope there will not be even more unrest since Israel staid on the sideline of the Arab unrest, so far....but if they will be dragged into the multi-country conflict because of these 2 ships we may expect a dramatic fall in all stock markets by next week in case Israel decides to sink those ships to the bottom of the Gulf or later in the Mediterranean; They're too clever to sink them IN the canal; or maybe they just capture them...? Just speculating of course.

I said it before.....Iran is pushing to the limits and see how far they can go by sending these 2 ships which, IMO, is absolutely unnecessary to send them to the Mediterranean for training purposes as they claim

.

They just want to see how Israel and the US are going to react....

LaoPo

That is based on the old " paradigm " - now

we can expect another market meltup - good heavens the market

can't go DOWN !

[cloudhopper]

Rising food prices have little to do with the US Dollar. Pretty much a supply and demand thing. Was just watching a BBC series on Ethiopia. Prices are up something like 500% due to flooding, drought, etc. Nothing to do with the dollar.

Yes sure the supply of USDs has absolutely nothing to do with rising prices. Nothing to see here, move along.

[craigt3365]

Isn't 95% of the problem rising food prices - As the US prints - so food costs go up for people who are only just surviving - So 1USD can be the difference between survival and death in Africa , especially for children /

The reserve currency status of the USD cannot survive as it is / perhaps the new reserve currency should be based on a basket of commodies - food and energy /

I saw this the other day 'meat consumption per capita (gartman) US 130Kg, EU 100Kg, China 44Kg, India 7Kg -- it takes 6Kg of corn and soybeans to produce 1Kg of meat'

Is this reflected in true prices ? if not it should be /

Rising food prices have little to do with the US Dollar. Pretty much a supply and demand thing. Was just watching a BBC series on Ethiopia. Prices are up something like 500% due to flooding, drought, etc. Nothing to do with the dollar.

If by "supply and demand" you mean supply and demand of futures contracts available for speculation, then I'd have to agree with you.

For many commodities, you are right on. But I've been watching this BBC series on the price of food. Many times, it's just due to horrible weather conditions. I saw one report in Ethiopia where drought has caused basic foodstuffs, none imported, to soar 500%. It's just a short term thing, but what they were trying to show is there is too much demand, too many people and the supplies come from a limited number of areas...making them vulnerable to these sorts of things.

But for many others, speculation is the root cause...same with oil?

[lannarebirth]

Isn't 95% of the problem rising food prices - As the US prints - so food costs go up for people who are only just surviving - So 1USD can be the difference between survival and death in Africa , especially for children /

The reserve currency status of the USD cannot survive as it is / perhaps the new reserve currency should be based on a basket of commodies - food and energy /

I saw this the other day 'meat consumption per capita (gartman) US 130Kg, EU 100Kg, China 44Kg, India 7Kg -- it takes 6Kg of corn and soybeans to produce 1Kg of meat'

Is this reflected in true prices ? if not it should be /

Rising food prices have little to do with the US Dollar. Pretty much a supply and demand thing. Was just watching a BBC series on Ethiopia. Prices are up something like 500% due to flooding, drought, etc. Nothing to do with the dollar.

If by "supply and demand" you mean supply and demand of futures contracts available for speculation, then I'd have to agree with you.

For many commodities, you are right on. But I've been watching this BBC series on the price of food. Many times, it's just due to horrible weather conditions. I saw one report in Ethiopia where drought has caused basic foodstuffs, none imported, to soar 500%. It's just a short term thing, but what they were trying to show is there is too much demand, too many people and the supplies come from a limited number of areas...making them vulnerable to these sorts of things.

But for many others, speculation is the root cause...same with oil?

Sure.

http://www.elitetrad....php?forumid=57

http://www.elitetrad....php?forumid=56

Edited February 21, 2011 by lannarebirth

[midas]

I'm not saying that what happened wasn't horrible. I'm not saying they weren't greedy. I'm not saying their actions didn't help create the debacle of a few years past. But that article paints them very harshly. It takes 2 to tango. Plenty of greedy investors were there to buy whatever they could to make a few percentage points more for "their" clients (or themselves) and make themselves a bigger bonus (retirement funds managers, individual investors, etc.).

And jeeze...read the comments. Wow...these guys really believe what they write? Fake economy? Come on....

(

I bet we would have a laugh re-reading some of the initial pages where people tell of the demise of the US. I've seen tons of posts. Well, didn't happen...growth is gaining momentum, etc. The sky didn't fall, the world has not come to an end.

Craig i have to admit i am still surprised about your " rose tinted glasses " perspective

of the USA economy

So here is an opinion from your Northern neighbours

Wake up, Americans. Your economic dream is a nightmare

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/opinion/wake-up-americans-your-economic-dream-is-a-nightmare/article1913689/

[cloudhopper]

So here is an opinion from your Northern neighbours

Wake up, Americans. Your economic dream is a nightmare

http://www.theglobea...article1913689/

Sure just solve the problem with more taxes - socialist rubbish IMO. The Canadians are about to wake up from their dream too.

"True, the unemployment rate is above 9 per cent, but that means 91 per cent of Americans are working." What an ignorant fool wrote this...

[midas]

So here is an opinion from your Northern neighbours

Wake up, Americans. Your economic dream is a nightmare

http://www.theglobea...article1913689/

Sure just solve the problem with more taxes - socialist rubbish IMO. The Canadians are about to wake up from their dream too.

"True, the unemployment rate is above 9 per cent, but that means 91 per cent of Americans are working." What an ignorant fool wrote this...

I agree - its not enough to just say they are " employed " ....

A new Gallup poll shows the underemployment rate now stands at 16.7 percent according to the government’s broader measure of unemployment called the U-6 rate. That means it is doubtful if they can qualify for a

mortgage to revive the all important housing market and maybe they cannot even spend much

Edited February 21, 2011 by midas

[Wrong Turn]

Yes, the U6 rate is more of a true rate. Underemployed people: working part time but want full-time work. Skilled and/or educated, but mopping floors or stocking shelves at Wal-Mart.

Brent crude is up to $104/105 per barrell, Gadhafi is allegedly out of Libya on his way to Venezuala, and more rumbling in the Middle East may take place, pushing Brent crude up more.

Higher oil, higher gasoline, higher prices on goods, and food is already high, and cotton at a 150 year high.

Inflation is here. The question is, for how long, and how high will it go.

[flying]

Inflation is here. The question is, for how long, and how high will it go.

Oh no worries there

The CPI CP-Lie would have you believe it is not much at all

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.nr0.htm

Edited February 21, 2011 by flying

[Wrong Turn]

^ Flying,

Like you, I never believe the gov's statistic on inflation. The use "geometric adjustment" and change the basket of goods to keep the rate lower.

There is no denying inflation now, as the the wheat crops in the Northern China plain will be critical this year to what will happen with the availability of wheat, and the price of it.