Financial Crisis

[serenitynow]

I have to laugh at you policy wonks. One doesn't need to be a sophisticated political scientist to see what the problem / solution is. The problem is DEBT! The solution is either paying down or cancelling that debt. It's that simple.

let's cancel the debt now!

You bondholders have no sense of humor. Still, unsecured debt vs. secured debt is still just gambling as far as I'm concerned. Some nice yields to be had though, but less so now.

[Naam]

I have to laugh at you policy wonks. One doesn't need to be a sophisticated political scientist to see what the problem / solution is. The problem is DEBT! The solution is either paying down or cancelling that debt. It's that simple.

let's cancel the debt now!

You bondholders have no sense of humor. Still, unsecured debt vs. secured debt is still just gambling as far as I'm concerned. Some nice yields to be had though, but less so now.

take a wild guess how often i have seen "secured" debt blowing up and being "haircutted" or even "shaved bald". by the way, don't ask me where one can get "secured" debt yielding double digits and in some cases >15%!

only threats against my unborn children and their mia noi mothers will force me to reveal these kind of secrets

[JimGant]

It is easier to cheer-lead existing positions that brought us this current mess than to think beyond party rhetoric.

And your cheering the GOP position of lowering taxes, which got us into this debt mess, is NOT a prime example of being unable to think past party rhetoric?

Please confirm (in case I misread it) that you endorse both solving the debt mess and eliminating the income tax -- so that I can stop wasting my time exploring your posts for wisdom.

[flying]

It is easier to cheer-lead existing positions that brought us this current mess than to think beyond party rhetoric.

And your cheering the GOP position of lowering taxes, which got us into this debt mess, is NOT a prime example of being unable to think past party rhetoric?

Please confirm (in case I misread it) that you endorse both solving the debt mess and eliminating the income tax -- so that I can stop wasting my time exploring your posts for wisdom.

1) I am not interested in the GOP

2) yes on both counts

Now keep your word.....bye bye

[churchill]

Nigel Farage: Greece under Commission-ECB-IMF Dictatorship ( yesterday )

and Margaret Thatcher from 1990 ...

Maggie Thatcher, Hard ECUs, and the Eurozone shambles

http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/maggie-thatcher-hard-ecus-and-the-eurozone-shambles/

[flying]

US banks privately lending billions to support European lenders

US banks have become the unlikely saviours of their ailing European counterparts, signing private agreements to lend them billions of dollars in recent weeks after an exodus of nervous money market funds left many without ready access to short-term funding.

Full Article at link above

For some reason reading these articles reminds me of a time I saw 10 or more tourist venture into the shallow waters of a heavy surf spot. They were a little over ankle deep when the rip took the whole line of them into the water.

Edited September 16, 2011 by flying

[12DrinkMore]

This dam_n mess is not going away.

The figures just get bigger and bigger.

http://www.businessinsider.com/merkel-will-press-obama-and-the-fed-to-bail-out-the-eurozone-2011-9

Three years later, it will be Angela Merkel talking to President Obama,Treasury Secretary Geithner and Federal Reserve Bank Chairman Ben Bernanke with exactly the same message. The United States government and the Federal Reserve must come to the rescue of the Eurozone or the ramifications will be catastrophic. And she will say that she needs roughly $1 trillion in financial guarantees and liquidity support. That's the number that will calm the markets.She will do this publicly (it will be leaked to the FT or the NYT) because (a) she wants to maximize the pressure on the US to ride to the rescue and ( she wants the blame to fall elsewhere in the event that the "situation" goes haywire.

And there will follow perhaps the defining moment of the Obama Presidency. If Obama goes forward and provides all or part of the $1 trillion guarantee, he will likely cut his own political throat in so doing. If Obama declines to go forward and provide all or part of the $1 trillion guarantee, he will likely preside over the second massively destabilizing financial panic in four years, thus insuring a second Great Recession, thus cutting his own political throat.

Sometimes, the choice a president has to make is between really, really bad and truly awful. That's the choice that Angela Merkel will likely drop on President Obama's desk within the next month, and probably sooner rather than later.

The only hope left is for an alien visit, let's pray they bring enough CosmosDollars with them.

This poor indebted world just ain't got enough.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/jefferies-describes-endgame-europe-finished

Edited September 16, 2011 by 12DrinkMore

[Naam]

http://www.zerohedge...europe-finished

copyright Dyler Turd

[midas]

Classic example & current.

Obama-backed energy firm goes bankrupt, even with stimulus

500+ million dollars given..... future taxpayers money of course since they have none of their own to give....

As always the usual skulduggery ...emails etc. uncovered.. rushing the stimulus approval process to 9 days instead of the usual 28 days ...so Joe Biden could give the feel good speech....even though they were told the business model showed this company would fail by Sept 2011

BTW.......what is today date?

In the end 1100 jobs lost & the 500+ million in taxpayers dollars

FBI has gone in & seized records.

Now who will investigate this? Eric Holders Justice Department???

because I've been travelling I have not been reading this forum or keeping up with the news until now but this story is nothing short of scandalous

it is also funny how the likes of Jingthing and Jim Grant who have been banging the drum so often for more spending are as quiet as church mice regarding these revelations?

Edited September 17, 2011 by midas

[serenitynow]

Classic example & current.

Obama-backed energy firm goes bankrupt, even with stimulus

500+ million dollars given..... future taxpayers money of course since they have none of their own to give....

As always the usual skulduggery ...emails etc. uncovered.. rushing the stimulus approval process to 9 days instead of the usual 28 days ...so Joe Biden could give the feel good speech....even though they were told the business model showed this company would fail by Sept 2011

BTW.......what is today date?

In the end 1100 jobs lost & the 500+ million in taxpayers dollars

FBI has gone in & seized records.

Now who will investigate this? Eric Holders Justice Department???

because I've been travelling I have not been reading this forum or keeping up with the news until now but this story is nothing short of scandalous

it is also funny how the likes of Jingthing and Jim Grant who have been banging the drum so often for more spending are as quiet as church mice regarding these revelations?

If the current administration loses the next election I would it attribute it to a growing sense that since they failed to indict any of the thousands of financial types responsible for so much carnage, that they will be seen as complicit in these activities. That's the way it looks to me anyway.

As far as the economy is concerned it is largely unfixable in the short term, no matter who is in the white house, although they can do things to make matters even worse. I think most would give a pass on that if they were indicting fraudsters.

[JimGant]

it is also funny how the likes of Jingthing and Jim Grant who have been banging the drum so often for more spending are as quiet as church mice regarding these revelations?

Certainly, a lot of bad implementation. Which doesn't disprove Keynesian theory. But, this thread has become akin to one on religion. Which is to say, very few converts when the facts aren't rock solid.

Anyway, my man Geithner is now carrying the ball on selling the value of stimulus. Doing a great job in Europe. NOT!

[flying]

If the current administration loses the next election I would it attribute it to a growing sense that since they failed to indict any of the thousands of financial types responsible for so much carnage, that they will be seen as complicit in these activities. That's the way it looks to me anyway.

As far as the economy is concerned it is largely unfixable in the short term, no matter who is in the white house, although they can do things to make matters even worse. I think most would give a pass on that if they were indicting fraudsters.

While you are right that it is largely irreparable it is not just the current admin at fault. It is also the Congress & Senate of that time period. ( We do have some new blood that does not agree with the old guard)

But if we look back at the original theft aka: TARP/Bailout of the Too Big Too Fail

We will see that the Congress changed their OUR vote from no to yes & approved the bailout/theft

Even though at the time they were receiving calls from citizens numbering 1000/1 against the bailout.

But after they voted our vote of NO Bailout...Their phones started ringing with calls from people with money, from bank presidents, lobbyist & favors were called in by previous large campaign contributors. They then in short order not only changed their vote to Yes but they increased the bailout package by 150 Billion with additional pork to win over house members.

They should all be hung then shot for good measure for treason against those they supposedly serve.

We were told that low interest rates led to excessive borrowing. Yet they never mentioned how these low interest rates came about.

They were the deliberate policy of the FED Reserve. No....far better to keep the scapegoat they had with the mortgage industry or wildcat capitalism.

Then came the scare tactics of both president leaving & president coming. That if we did not give dictatorial power to the Treasury Secretary the stock market would drop & we would be staring into an abyss. Your retirement fund would plunge as would the value of your home!!!

Of course again they leave out the fact that with all the money created out of thin air for these bailouts & subsequent QE1&2 soon to be QE2.5 or 3 that these values will drop anyway because your dollar is becoming worth less & less.

Home prices were obviously too high & any form of equilibrium cannot be reached as long as they...the FED et al continue to prop them up.

Additional bailouts & QE will continue to encourage moral hazards of the worse kind. Now that they have set the stage what is to stop those who caused it to repeat it over & over again? One thing you can be sure is all future bailouts will be blamed on the free markets instead. Even though the free market has never bailed out anyone unlike this government. They guarantee no one's profit...unlike this government.

Bankruptcies may be painful but...they are not the end of the world. The physical assets remain as does the labor force. The good assets would be bought by more skilled hands & the bad would be destroyed/liquidated.

Instead we have this endless intervention. The truly free markets are dead.

Edited September 17, 2011 by flying

[midas]

it is also funny how the likes of Jingthing and Jim Grant who have been banging the drum so often for more spending are as quiet as church mice regarding these revelations?

Certainly, a lot of bad implementation. Which doesn't disprove Keynesian theory. But, this thread has become akin to one on religion. Which is to say, very few converts when the facts aren't rock solid.

Anyway, my man Geithner is now carrying the ball on selling the value of stimulus. Doing a great job in Europe. NOT!

But the facts are glaringly simple..........and solid..

the Obama administration keep showing in their actions they have zero respect or competence regarding the use of

tax payers money ( i.e. other people's money )

You first tried to justify why it was okay for the bus used on a job promotion tour by Obama to have actually been made in Canada

but this was very closely followed by Obama's labor secretary Hilda Solis purchasing a new SUV also built and assembled in Canada

( from parts also made in Canada )which she wasn't even aware of.

Now you have this incident involving several hundred more millions of dollars being squandered..........

How many bites of the apple do you and Jingthing realistically expect before taxpayers justifiably say enough already ?

[JimGant]

But the facts are glaringly simple..........and solid..

The facts about the implementation of the stimulus certainly show inattention to detail (to be polite).

However, my point, again, is that this doesn't equate to those who say "See, Keynesian theory doesn't work." Many smart economists do, indeed, disparage Keynes. But they don't base their conclusions on keystone cop bumblings.

Nevertheless, theories -- economic or spiritual -- aren't easily bought by those of the opposite persuasion. That's why this thread, with all its references to 'he said, she said' has become little more than pissin' in the wind.

[flying]

China to 'liquidate' US Treasuries, not dollars

Interesting....

The Chinese are clearly vexed with Washington, viewing the Fed's QE as a stealth default on US debt. Mr Li came close to calling America a basket case, saying the picture is far worse than when Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher took over in the early 1980s.

Also interesting is their desire to invest in certain companies like Boeing, Apple, Intel

Could just be saber rattling but the final sentence is something that stuck out since it has been catching my eye lately when the 10yr dropped below 2% for the first time since mid 1950's I believe

Yet another reason to be careful of 10-year Treasuries and Bunds below 2pc yields. There is a big seller out there, just itching to let go.

[churchill]

China to 'liquidate' US Treasuries, not dollars

Interesting....

The Chinese are clearly vexed with Washington, viewing the Fed's QE as a stealth default on US debt. Mr Li came close to calling America a basket case, saying the picture is far worse than when Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher took over in the early 1980s.

Also interesting is their desire to invest in certain companies like Boeing, Apple, Intel

Could just be saber rattling but the final sentence is something that stuck out since it has been catching my eye lately when the 10yr dropped below 2% for the first time since mid 1950's I believe

Yet another reason to be careful of 10-year Treasuries and Bunds below 2pc yields. There is a big seller out there, just itching to let go.

I think this is their idea in Europe as well --- to invest in the Euro Area via Companies and Assets rather than paper ..

"The money will go into strategic land purchases all over the world' and Koh Samui is waiting !!

[Jingthing]

Favoring Keynesian activism to approach the US/European not so great depression doesn't mean supporting bungling some of the details. No contradiction about that in the least.

Edited September 17, 2011 by Jingthing

[12DrinkMore]

Well, well.

How on earth was this man

able to lose USD 2,000,000,000

RESPECT! That is one huge Muvverfeckin number.

These days we've all become vaguely immune to the size of the numbers being squirted around in the debt markets.

But what sort of humongous deal did he make? Did he ring up a mate over at GS and say,

"hey! Can I buy 20,000,000,000,000 options on the CHF appreciating after the SNB declared it was not happy with the level of the EURCHF?"

But he's wiped out the bonuses for the bank. Poor bastards, bet they are really pissed off.

Although there is still a fair chunk of change left in the kitty.

Nearly £2.5bn has been set aside to cover pay and other perks at the investment bank in the first six months of the year, with about half of the total earmarked for year-end bonuses.

http://www.thisismon...l#ixzz1YDOEDvvT

So I suppose they will still get a 50% bonus, provided no other naughty boy cocks up the figures.

I do wonder, however, how many other 'rogue traders' abound in the banks, but have been on the winning side? Never hear about those guys, do we?

Edited September 17, 2011 by 12DrinkMore

[Naam]

But he's wiped out the bonuses for the bank. Poor bastards, bet they are really pissed off.

no "12", he did not. the bonuses of UBS and most other banks are based on specific department and individual performance. the year-end bonus of "my" UBS private banker is calculated on the basis how much profit the clients under his care have generated for the bank.

the losses caused by a Ghanaian Yoruba's rogue trading does not deduct a single copper penny from his bonus. that's what his contract says.

[Naam]

I do wonder, however, how many other 'rogue traders' abound in the banks, but have been on the winning side? Never hear about those guys, do we?

of course we don't hear about them because "rogue trading" is very much acceptable as long as profits are generated.

[waza]

Blackout: CNN, Fox, and MSNBC Ignore Thousands Of US Day Of Rage Protesters

Most Americans are being kept in the dark about the US Day of Rage by the corporate cable news giants at CNN, Fox News, and MSNBC who have imposed a de facto blackout on the protest.

My link

[flying]

Blackout: CNN, Fox, and MSNBC Ignore Thousands Of US Day Of Rage Protesters

Most Americans are being kept in the dark about the US Day of Rage by the corporate cable news giants at CNN, Fox News, and MSNBC who have imposed a de facto blackout on the protest.

My link

Some you tubes but your right zero media coverage here in the USA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qfjyafm05WM

Edited September 18, 2011 by flying

[craigt3365]

FYI. CNN's Fareed Zakaria's GPS show is really good today. You can view the replay here:

http://www.rentadrone.org/

A Fareed Zakaria GPS Special: Restoring the American Dream: What can be done to get people back to work? Hear from top CEOs and the man whose job it is to bring more jobs to America in this GPS special.

Interviews with several major CEOs, etc. Very interesting.

[midas]

" It is the duty of the Patriot to protect his country from his government "

Thomas Paine

[craigt3365]

Blackout: CNN, Fox, and MSNBC Ignore Thousands Of US Day Of Rage Protesters

Most Americans are being kept in the dark about the US Day of Rage by the corporate cable news giants at CNN, Fox News, and MSNBC who have imposed a de facto blackout on the protest.

My link

I saw it on CNN. Don't watch the other channels. Here's the video from the CNN website:

http://money.cnn.com/video/news/2011/09/17/n_wall_st_closed_protest.cnnmoney/

Love the piercings and pink hair...

[ronz28]

Well, well.

How on earth was this man

able to lose USD 2,000,000,000

RESPECT! That is one huge Muvverfeckin number.

These days we've all become vaguely immune to the size of the numbers being squirted around in the debt markets.

But what sort of humongous deal did he make? Did he ring up a mate over at GS and say,

"hey! Can I buy 20,000,000,000,000 options on the CHF appreciating after the SNB declared it was not happy with the level of the EURCHF?"

Right, who was on the other side of the trades? Was it a conspiracy with his buddies to milk UBS & he gets a big kickback? How did their internal controls and risk management system let this happen? There are some big holes there that need to be plugged.

[flying]

I saw it on CNN. Don't watch the other channels. Here's the video from the CNN website:

http://money.cnn.com/video/news/2011/09/17/n_wall_st_closed_protest.cnnmoney/

Love the piercings and pink hair...

Thanks Craig & glad to see CNN did cover it.

Also pink hair & piercings aside I will say it was nice to see young well spoken & apparently informed

young folks speaking out.

It gives hope.

[Naam]

...one huge Muvverfeckin number

[Chivas]

...one huge Muvverfeckin number

May I ask why your opinion is not obviously in agreement ??

[ronz28]

Hitler has problem with UBS trader....