Financial Crisis

[Nouf]

I will further add to my previous comments

The system is broke:

when you have the likes of the big corporate bank executives, around the world getting bonuses for loosing massive amounts of money and simply holding countries to ransom, you simply know that there is not going to be any way forward for along time, and confidence in the system is broke, because the world looks in at this behaviour and its with digust and many will refrain from entering markets because of the corruption

when you are paid huge bonuses for bad behaviour, it does not inspire confidence to enter the market and invest when there is no trust

how can you accept a balance sheet with all that phony accouting rules, when many companies are simply hiding the real truth

I mean look at the Citi news this week, they say they have been profitable for 2 months yet the quarter is not even over and they are going to be in profit??

What about all the billions of debt they have and the US government bails outs???

untill this sort of behaviour is taken out and the corrupted and sent to jail and confidence is restored, i really dont see this as an investment environment

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/15/business/15AIG.html?_r=2

It this sort of crap that investors will simply refuse to enter the stock markets for the long time, unless you are a trader this is NOT an environment for buy and hold, untill the corruption is wiped out and the criminals punished

mark-mark, short selling, uptick rule, its all irrelevant as if confidence is lost its game over anyhow

Edited March 15, 2009 by Nouf

[lannarebirth]

I will further add to my previous comments

The system is broke:

when you have the likes of the big corporate bank executives, around the world getting bonuses for loosing massive amounts of money and simply holding countries to ransom, you simply know that there is not going to be any way forward for along time, and confidence in the system is broke, because the world looks in at this behaviour and its with digust and many will refrain from entering markets because of the corruption

when you are paid huge bonuses for bad behaviour, it does not inspire confidence to enter the market and invest when there is no trust

how can you accept a balance sheet with all that phony accouting rules, when many companies are simply hiding the real truth

I mean look at the Citi news this week, they say they have been profitable for 2 months yet the quarter is not even over and they are going to be in profit??

What about all the billions of debt they have and the US government bails outs???

untill this sort of behaviour is taken out and the corrupted and sent to jail and confidence is restored, i really dont see this as an investment environment

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/15/business/15AIG.html?_r=2

It this sort of crap that investors will simply refuse to enter the stock markets for the long time, unless you are a trader this is NOT an environment for buy and hold, untill the corruption is wiped out and the criminals punished

mark-mark, short selling, uptick rule, its all irrelevant as if confidence is lost its game over anyhow

Well, I don't know, I might disagree with some of that. I don't think people really care about corrupt markets or outrageous bonuses. I think what they care about is if their stocks have gone down. All that stuff's good when the stocks are going up.

Ordinary investors are really no different than those folks that invested with Madoff. They knew he was breaking the law somehow, but they assumed it was for their benefit. When companies report operating earnings rathe than core earning, when they have a never ending string of "one time only" "writedowns" (losses), when they always "beat by a penny", when the CFO rejiggers pension scheme assumptions to "make the quarter", its all good, till the stock starts falling.

Edited March 15, 2009 by lannarebirth

[PeaceBlondie]

And AIG is required to pay its executives over $105 million in bonuses.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090315/ap_on_bi_ge/aig_bonuses

A call from Timothy Geitner was fruitless.

[cclub75]

And AIG is required to pay its executives over $105 million in bonuses.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090315/ap_on_bi_ge/aig_bonuses

A call from Timothy Geitner was fruitless.

Business as usual : all those companies under public life support are "required" to pay bonuses.

Of course, during the process, all links with ethics and basic morality are broken. But mai pen rai : the cows, the US taxpayers will continue to pay.

Obama "yes we can" promised changes... We have now the proof that the changes are huge compared to Paulson and the previous teams...

I see only one ray of light :

Bankruptcy Lawyer Joins Obama’s Advisory Team on GM, Chrysler [...] (Bloomberg)

Edited March 15, 2009 by cclub75

[midas]

Well, I don't know, I might disagree with some of that. I don't think people really care about corrupt markets or outrageous bonuses. I think what they care about is if their stocks have gone down. All that stuff's good when the stocks are going up.

I would think sentiment would have changed considerably by now?

Maybe they cared less in the days before they realised these " outrageous bonuses "

would be paid even when the company failed miserably and when those same

outrageous bonuses would be paid using taxpayer money ? The same with market

corruption - many people probably trusted that

bodies like the SEC were doing their job when in fact I wonder just how many

SEC officials really understood these fancy financial instruments ?.

[badge]

anyone with more than just a passing interest in equity markets knows Shorting is fair.

All Developed world banks are bankrupt, by definition. So if your offered capital, for whatever reason, you'll agree, and stockpile it, to try and bolster your balance sheet, and survive.

Inflation wont show up either; Japans been looking for it for 20years.

[Nouf]

This is savage, Is this what the western world is going to come to?????? (hope not)

Gold for Bread

Currency gone belly up, now thats a loss of confidence (dont see it with western currencies yet but never say never)

looks like a patch of land to grow vegetables might be in order

Edited March 16, 2009 by Nouf

[AlexLah]

Well at least there still is some food available, some others were eating grass.......

Roaches and other insects are food as well, plenty of them in Thailand.

Buy seeds for growing food, they might be more valuable then Gold in such a situation.

[Hairy]

Patrick Byrne has been fighting against NAKED short selling, he has nothing against legal short selling.

If I remember well there is estimated about 6 Billion USD (Please correct if I am wrong) worth of FTD's (Fail To Deliver) each day, that is massive.

Another example he gives is of that company that makes those v shaped troop carriers that can withstand I.E.D's and because of naked shorting the share price went from 60 to 4 USD. So people die because some greedy people that use illegal practices like to drive a ferrari and have a nice house with 26 bathrooms for a family of four.

Alex, this misses the fundamental point. Shorts only make money if the stock drops. Shorting itself is value-neutral, because anyone who shorts is eventually forced to buy back to cover the short. When that happened, it would trigger a "short squeeze" which would cause the stock to overshoot upwards, driving the shorter into bankruptcy.

Byrne's company was and is a short target because it wasn't making money, never has, and really has no good prospect of ever doing so. All his ranting about "naked shorting" is just smoke and mirrors. In fact, it was the day that his company got taken OFF the Regulation SHO list -- meaning that the naked shorting had stopped -- that the stock price collapsed more than 50% (I think it was more like two-thirds) until it was down below $10.

As far as Ferraris and 26-bathroom houses, finance types don't need to be on the short side to get those. They can make money on the long side, too, and it's easier. All you have to do is create a magazine, do a TV show chopping up salads and making crafts out of eggshells and crap, and then do an IPO, and voila, Martha Stewart is a billionaire on the first day of trading for MSO. Or put together an online bookstore, go public, and Jeff Bezos is a multibillionaire.

Or for that matter, just get an MBA, go to work on Wall Street, and start at $130,000/year with annual raises and bonuses that will take you to $300,000/yr within two or three years. By the time you're 30, you'll have that mansion, Ferrari, a few mistresses, and anything else you want. At least, that's how it worked up until late 2007.

It's all just bullshit designed to scapegoat the people who are right about failing companies, because the people who run the companies don't like it pointed out when they are running the companies into the ground.

Borrowing the stock is totally different. When a short trader borrows the stock he is not putting up the full market price of the stock, but just a small itsy bitsy percentage for the days he will borrow it. So now he is leveraged to the hilt, as he has to return that same number of shares, which if they climb by more than the same itsy bitsy percentage, he will, as you so eloquently expressed it "get boned hard". Which I observed with glee in the case of Porsche and Volkswagen. And the short traders had the gall to complain But if they fall, then he will profit by many times his original ante.

That is surely a leveraged gamble? Or maybe I have misunderstood it all?

I think you've misunderstood. It's not possible to short more than what you can reasonably be expected to cover. If you try to short too much, your brokerage will do a forced cover on you, and if you lose money as a result, that's just too bad.

I was in that exact position about three weeks ago, because I miscalculated against my account balances, and my brokerage called and told me that I had 24 hours to clean it up or they'd do it for me.

If you have $50K of cash in your account, you're allowed to short $50K in stock. Or, if you have margin (and I think I mentioned that brokerages seem to almost invariably link margin to shorting), you can short $75K to $100K. You don't get any more leverage than that. But that's not pure shorting. And also, if you short more than that $50K, the brokerage will charge you interest on the money you've "borrowed" to short. (Some brokerages even charge you interest on the amount you're shorting, even if you have cash to cover that balance.)

You are still confusing margin with shorting, and even margin has limits (usually 1.5X or 2X). It's not infinite.

But the main question I asked was "does the world need the over bloated self important and self serving finance industry" or does it really require just basic financial services to enable trade, manufacture, research and education? If all the time, energy, intelligence and money that has been wasted into producing the horrendous financial mess had been spent on manufacturing and developing products, medicine, agriculture, education that produce sustainable profits in the single figure precentage, would we all now be better off?

I think the answer is absolutely crystal clear.

The human race has been well and truly boned by the greed, ruthlessness and selfishness of the &$^%$ in the finance industry.

Well, yeah, there we're in full agreement. However, you've omitted the fact that it's the government which has enabled, allowed, and ENCOURAGED it all.

In fact, I just read an article tonight which says that, at least in the U.S., our fearless leaders are about to try to destroy us and trigger a civil war. This wasn't some tinfoil thing put out by Dorks In Camo, it was a news conference held by a Treasury Department official. He didn't put it quite that way, but that's what is going to happen if they go through with it.

Really, REALLY wishing I could find someplace safe to buy into. Maybe New Zealand. 'Cause the way the Obama administration is handling this, the U.S. isn't going to survive the experience.

Edited March 16, 2009 by Hairy

[CPH]

If short selling and especially naked short selling was made illigal all these hedge funds would go out of bussiness. It is not the shorting in it self

but the orchestrated negative news spread when the large hedge funds shorts a company. And surely they work together when they find a target.

The market simply cannot withstand that kind of pressure. It will take a loong time to get trust back into the markets, people have really now seen how much fraud is involved.

[Nouf]

If short selling and especially naked short selling was made illigal all these hedge funds would go out of bussiness. It is not the shorting in it self

but the orchestrated negative news spread when the large hedge funds shorts a company. And surely they work together when they find a target.

The market simply cannot withstand that kind of pressure. It will take a loong time to get trust back into the markets, people have really now seen how much fraud is involved.

There is nothing wrong with short selling its the opposite side on the long trade, what many object to is the "naked" stuff, that does go on, its well known, as certain brokers will be in on a big fund to carry out the illegal trade

Thats what patrick Byrne is referring to, BS short positions from thin air

the reason why many funds like to get short is the fact that its pretty simple and very quick to force a sell off, so obtain money quickly

Even the biggest Local (a local is a market maker) in the S&P pit in chicago is short he rarely is long, he simply offers and wants to force the market lower so he can flush out weak longs, its just the way the market works

if you are the offer (you are getting short) so your objective is the try and forced weak holders to sell so the market is lower and you can buy back your outstanding positions, again nothing wrong with that

but this has been going on for years, there is nothing wrong and 2 sided trade, for every buyer there is a seller and vice versa

problems really arise from the SEC, as even if you do get caught, the fines are so silly its makes more sense to do illegal trading, i mean do know many that have ever been convicted for illegal activities

man they could not even catch Bernie, he "gave" himself up, if it wasnt for the fact this crisis the guy would have been doing the scam till he died

the guy said on TV in a interview years back that is was virtually impossible to do illegal trading yet he was doingit for years

simply the authorities were in Bed with the houses, have you see the cramer video where he admits selling short the S&P futures thats an attempt to shake out weak long holders so a big fund can buyer lower

likewise the big houses use the media to get bullish holders to bail out of stocks, and vice versa the media will talk a stock up so big money house can sell into the public as the market goes up

its what is termed a "bag holder" when the markets pukes (heads lower) any serious trader we know this

its the way the market works, Do you really think the Media is helping the small guy???? Cramer has never helped the small guy for as long as i have known him

The idiot needs to be taken of the air he has cost more pain to small traders, he is one of the Elite that manipulate the markets from his show

Every professional knows that, we fade him it was a sure thing up untill this past week, we trade the opposite of him, if he called the bottom, get short, like wise when he was bearish, get long

there is many on the inside that are ripping the punters off, but slowly its being exposed, look at the daily show, its getting out there slowly

Things have changed, only the public want heads to roll, untill you see the f*ckers locked up and sentenced only then will you see trust

people need to do time for this, Jail term, people need to take the fall for this, if not, markets are not going anywhere as you point out, NO TRUST

but do you see that??? not likely as Obama IMO is in bed with the same guys that got him where he is, even his staff are corrupted Geithner and Summers, let alone Bernanke

the system is broke, the public have finally accepted that its was great when it was going up, now they have been raped they want justice funny that, huh!

its a small band of folks ripping off of a major part of the US publics money, i just amazed the public have not gone ballistic, i guess too many budweiser`s in the fridge still that or pop idol is on TV

If you think that is bad, go and look up Wash Trading then see how corrupted that crap is

the fines are nothing for this illegal actvity, when it makes more sense to trade illegally why do you want to trade legal???

Edited March 16, 2009 by Nouf

[lannarebirth]

^^ Ironically, if it weren't for all these corrupt practices, about 50% of companies would have gone out of business years ago and the S&P 500 would be trading in a 4 point range everyday.

What this market really needs is some reverse splits. Just way too many shares trading.

Edited March 16, 2009 by lannarebirth

[AlexLah]

Wash trading different name same practice as the old "Bucket" shop's right?

That Cramer guy and all of those CNBC anal ist's what a bunch of fakers, I wonder if they wa_nk each other off after their shows.

There is another good clip from the daily show guy where he takes down two guy's that were presenting a CNN show called fire show or sale or something.

I mean is it not ridiculous that a comedian has to step in to expose the clowns?

Hair, I think I understand the concept of short selling and that is to have some kind of instrument available to keep prices a bit more in line and protect a bit against the reverse, namely prices being artificially driven or kept high. As you said it is all chicken sh1t rumours and emotion. Look at Satyam where a very well known and respected institute cook the books and make it look if the company is extremely healthy. I say those that had any involvement in that and knew what they were doing, hop a few years in a tentcamp and not in a jail, that is too good. Madeoff also, hop in a tentcamp without money.

[lannarebirth]

Wash trading different name same practice as the old "Bucket" shop's right?

That Cramer guy and all of those CNBC anal ist's what a bunch of fakers, I wonder if they wa_nk each other off after their shows.

There is another good clip from the daily show guy where he takes down two guy's that were presenting a CNN show called fire show or sale or something.

I mean is it not ridiculous that a comedian has to step in to expose the clowns?

Hair, I think I understand the concept of short selling and that is to have some kind of instrument available to keep prices a bit more in line and protect a bit against the reverse, namely prices being artificially driven or kept high. As you said it is all chicken sh1t rumours and emotion. Look at Satyam where a very well known and respected institute cook the books and make it look if the company is extremely healthy. I say those that had any involvement in that and knew what they were doing, hop a few years in a tentcamp and not in a jail, that is too good. Madeoff also, hop in a tentcamp without money.

Alex, there isn't anyone that doesn't know this guy is a shill/bullshit artist / hedge fund frontrunner. None of that mattered when it caused their stocks to rise. Wall Street is all about this week. 4x expiration week. You folks own the horses, Wall Street will juice'em, scratch'em, whatever they have to, so they don't have to pay out at the betting window this week. Its all about the Max Pain:

http://www.optionpain.com/MaxPain/Max-Pain.php

Edited March 16, 2009 by lannarebirth

[12DrinkMore]

I think you've misunderstood. It's not possible to short more than what you can reasonably be expected to cover. If you try to short too much, your brokerage will do a forced cover on you, and if you lose money as a result, that's just too bad.

I was in that exact position about three weeks ago, because I miscalculated against my account balances, and my brokerage called and told me that I had 24 hours to clean it up or they'd do it for me.

If you have $50K of cash in your account, you're allowed to short $50K in stock. Or, if you have margin (and I think I mentioned that brokerages seem to almost invariably link margin to shorting), you can short $75K to $100K. You don't get any more leverage than that. But that's not pure shorting. And also, if you short more than that $50K, the brokerage will charge you interest on the money you've "borrowed" to short. (Some brokerages even charge you interest on the amount you're shorting, even if you have cash to cover that balance.)

You are still confusing margin with shorting, and even margin has limits (usually 1.5X or 2X). It's not infinite.

But in order to short the the USD 50K stock, you are not buying USD 50K worth of stock, you are betting something far less than that, I have no idea, but say you pay 2% to borrow the USD 50K over two weeks (might be nice if you could provide us with some real figures, I have no idea what they are). So for a bet of USD 1,000 you are "controlling" USD 50,000 worth of stock, which has now been dumped into the market.

Now if the stock gains, then you could be liable for up to USD 50,000, at which point your brokerage would buy in the stock and cancel the deal and your money with it.

But if the stock falls by more than 2%, whoch would cover your bet, then for each 1% that it further falls you make 50% on the original bet.

I would call that leverage, in that you can lever the effect of USD 50K Stock with just a small percentage of its value. But maybe that is not the correct term, so what would you call it?

And I still believe that the short selling, because of the leveraging and lemming effects, accelerates the market swings. And anything which provides an acceleration is leading to an instability, with overshoots. And this is what we see. And, as is very clear, the bastards in the market love instability, because they can maximise their personal gains at the expense of of the rest of us, who would be very very happy to have long slow trends up or down, so we all have time to react and the companies have time to change.

Take the analogy of an F1 car and a Morris Minor minor driven by grandma. The F1 car provides excitement with rapid acceleration and braking, coupled with an instable behaviour if too much force is applied via the feet or steering wheel. There is little chance to rectify a small error, it will send you into the gravel. But grandma potters along, she slowly negotiates around obstacles, but makes continuous progress and generally can be relied upon to get back home safely.

The stock markets, driven by rampant hysteria, fueled by instantaneous data through the internet, live data feeds and news broadcasts fed on steroids, have turned themselves into an F1 car. I have worked there. If the fukcing datafeed goes down for five minutes, the dealers go ballistic.

I want Grandmas driving Morris Minors in the investment banking and Mr Mainwaring running the banks.

This would stabilise the whole frigging system.

If people want an adrenaline rush, then they should be looking anywhere but the finance industry, which should be full of boring old farts doing a reliable job. Not greedy selfish bastards trying to screw each other and succeeding in screwing the rest of us.

In fact, I just read an article tonight which says that, at least in the U.S., our fearless leaders are about to try to destroy us and trigger a civil war. This wasn't some tinfoil thing put out by Dorks In Camo, it was a news conference held by a Treasury Department official. He didn't put it quite that way, but that's what is going to happen if they go through with it.

Maybe you could provide us all with a reference?

Edited March 16, 2009 by 12DrinkMore

[churchill]

CNBC Crap - Isn't time that there was a decent channel for financial news . CNBC - Europe is OK but the US edition is so short focused - talking about stock prices for dunkin donuts or whatever -

and Bloomberg ?

As soon as the market is up they have people on saying it is going up more - as soon as it is down they have people saying it is going down more

Where is the debate and discussion to fix these problems to be seen ? on any channel ?

To give all of us a balanced and educated view ?

Edited March 16, 2009 by churchill

[AlexLah]

Lana, that last linky you gave is not funny

Anyway last week we had mostly good news and the DJI on a nice rise. Bernanke last night telling the worst is over and 2010 we will be back to recovery.

Newspapers this morning announcing the good news, stockmarkets rising again.

Guy's, the worst is behind us, it was all just a bit of a bad/wet dream, we have chosen the right path, the path to renewed prosperity for all.

Our glorious leaders have shown that they are indeed leaders by going against all advice and common sense, and see there it is, recovery!

I am all cheered up again and thinking to celebrate this monumental piece of good news by drowning the bad news with a few cold ones.

Grab your partner's hands and dance and jump around the table, it feels good!

We are freeeeeeeee!!!!!!!

[12DrinkMore]

CNBC Crap - Isn't time that there was a decent channel for finacial news . CNBC - Europe is OK but the US edition is so short focused - talking about stock prices for dunkin donuts or whatever -

As soon as the market is up they have people on saying it is going up more - as soon as it is down they have people saying it is going down more

Where is the debate and discussion to fix these problems to be seen ? on any channel ?

Yep, another result of the bullshit hype applied to the bullshit finance industry, which should really be the most boring topic on Earth. Look, it is only <deleted> numbers that they are talking about, one stock going up 2% and WOW, big fukcing news.

They pump it all up with fast talkers, fast music and humongous rapidly changing numbers to get the whole world sitting on the edge of their seats. Surely it would be better if the financial news was toned down to provide the interest value of watching grass grow? The we could all get on with our real lives and enjoy them.

[12DrinkMore]

Grab your partner's hands and dance and jump around the table, it feels good!

We are freeeeeeeee!!!!!!!

Can you send me some of that stuff you're taking? I think I need a treble dose.

And to bring you down to reality, have you read this yet?

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China_Business/KC17Cb02.html

[churchill]

Grab your partner's hands and dance and jump around the table, it feels good!

We are freeeeeeeee!!!!!!!

Can you send me some of that stuff you're taking? I think I need a treble dose.

And to bring you down to reality, have you read this yet?

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China_Business/KC17Cb02.html

Another sign that the Chinese are investing in Gold .

There seem to have been quite a few hints lately - Better to be long gold imo .

[AlexLah]

It's all if, if, if.

The GF had tears in her eyes when I told het that "The Oracle" high priest B.Bernanke had spoken positively (altough he never says much when speaking).

Anyway what I really think and to keep this thread still a bit entertaining.

[12DrinkMore]

The GF had tears in her eyes when I told het that "The Oracle" high priest B.Bernanke had spoken positively (altough he never says much when speaking).

Anyway what I really think and to keep this thread still a bit entertaining.

Well thank you Alex, that is by far the best image you have ever posted.

It has certainly given me encouragement that some things are worth fighting for :D

I guess she has overcome the fit of tears, or maybe I can offer her a tissue or two?

:D

[AlexLah]

Frog it!

Just lost a big reply.

No need for tissue 12, GF had to cry from laughing about my joke about Benny boy.

12 It's your turn to get us some cold ones here and switch back into gloom and doom mode.

[badge]

Hey i recognise that

[AlexLah]

The butt?

[AlexLah]

As I said an interesting 13 to 16, let me sum up a few of the things I noticed so you have an idea at what I am looking at.

It is a bit in random order as I just wrote it down while going through the news I remember reading, you can make the connections yourself or we can discuss them here and think of possible scenario's.

G20 meeting bumping up IMF

IMF gonna go increase special drawing rights

Vienna OPEC meeting Russia as observer

Russia wants oil trade in basket of currency

Trick of the treasuries in Monday TIC report

Signing sanctions against Iran by Obama is a childish idea

2.6 Billion Euro Gas Deal development in Iran by China

Us sends destroyer to escort surveillance ship in disputed waters, (look up the law of the sea).

Iran oil bourse opened a year ago trades in other currency like euros

Currency war? Swiss?

Alabama shooting possibly triggered by lay off increased psychological effect to suffering people

China told IMF should increase the supervision of reserve currency economies

Russia to join OPEC is now observer

Russia exports more oil than SA

Us energy chief asks not to increase oil price to save world economy

OPEC happy with Obama team but says if US makes a D-tour they will be very disappointed

New oil trading system regulations and trading rules demanded by Russia

MOU already signed between OPEC and Russia

Bernanke sees the light at the end of the tunnel and tells 2010 will be start of recovery

TIC report, 158 Billion taken out by foreigners

AIG, publishes counter party list 90 billion payed out

Systemic risk AIG 1,6 Trillion exposure to toxic chicken sh1t

UK, sliding into 1932 slump condition some report(er) says

So a lot of stuff going on and I just wonder what you guy's think of it.

[lannarebirth]

As I said an interesting 13 to 16, let me sum up a few of the things I noticed so you have an idea at what I am looking at.

It is a bit in random order as I just wrote it down while going through the news I remember reading, you can make the connections yourself or we can discuss them here and think of possible scenario's.

G20 meeting bumping up IMF

IMF gonna go increase special drawing rights

Vienna OPEC meeting Russia as observer

Russia wants oil trade in basket of currency

Trick of the treasuries in Monday TIC report

Signing sanctions against Iran by Obama is a childish idea

2.6 Billion Euro Gas Deal development in Iran by China

Us sends destroyer to escort surveillance ship in disputed waters, (look up the law of the sea).

Iran oil bourse opened a year ago trades in other currency like euros

Currency war? Swiss?

Alabama shooting possibly triggered by lay off increased psychological effect to suffering people

China told IMF should increase the supervision of reserve currency economies

Russia to join OPEC is now observer

Russia exports more oil than SA

Us energy chief asks not to increase oil price to save world economy

OPEC happy with Obama team but says if US makes a D-tour they will be very disappointed

New oil trading system regulations and trading rules demanded by Russia

MOU already signed between OPEC and Russia

Bernanke sees the light at the end of the tunnel and tells 2010 will be start of recovery

TIC report, 158 Billion taken out by foreigners

AIG, publishes counter party list 90 billion payed out

Systemic risk AIG 1,6 Trillion exposure to toxic chicken sh1t

UK, sliding into 1932 slump condition some report(er) says

So a lot of stuff going on and I just wonder what you guy's think of it.

So, you don't think the market just went up to the .382 Fibonacci retracement and turned down? I do.

As for the Chinese, someone needs to tell them Intl. Waters begin 12 nautical miles offshore. Exclusive Economic Zones are another kettle of fish and typically extend 200 nm, when not in conflict with another countrys EEZ.

[AlexLah]

dam_n my whole long reply went lost!

Ok. LB, have you looked into the laws of the land and seas?

Do you understand what it would mean if the US would sign the ratification?

Ore are you just looking at Fibbo rules and other rules, bla bla?

Do you understand why they call you Mr? and write your name in Caps?

Ore do you just not care to think about it?

Edited March 17, 2009 by AlexLah

[lannarebirth]

dam_n my whole long reply went lost!

Ok. LB, have you looked into the laws of the land and seas?

Do you understand what it would mean if the US would sign the ratification?

Ore are you just looking at Fibbo rules and other rules, bla bla?

Do you understand why they call you Mr? and write your name in Caps?

Ore do you just not care to think about it?

Alex, I am a Master Mariner. I spent my entire career abiding by Admiralty Law and International Conventions relating to the high seas. I'm right on this one. Next!

[AlexLah]

OK, interesting LB, lets talk about it when there is another TV meeting,ore better seperate thread not here, it is to complicated for other people.

Edited March 17, 2009 by AlexLah