Financial Crisis

[jpinx]

Please point out the reference to the inspection by the Germans of their own gold. This is a matter of trust - not value.

The whole story about the Germans either being refused view or return of gold is completely fabricated junk made up by some gold bug website hysteric (you know the style....'blah blah ... we can only conclude that the Fed has lost the gold, hasn't got anything to show them ..... more blah.....)

" made up by some gold bug website hysteric "

William Kaye, who previously has been working for Goldman Sachs is by no means a “nobody” on the global markets in July 2013 created a stir when he picked-up the ball, stating

” Germany won´t ever see its gold again…… Central Banks, such as the FED, where most of the reserves had been deposited, had lent the gold to U.S. Banks such as Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan.

The gold has been used in the market to lower the gold price and the FED has received securities in exchange…. Germany won´t ever see that gold again, because it is safely kept in my accounts and the accounts of our investors”.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/97970542-5fd2-11e2-b128-00144feab49a.html#axzz2IFLzdEw7

it's not evaporated Where is it now ?

[impulse]

it's not evaporated Where is it now ?

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/73000/Cat-with-Gold-Teeth--73457.jpg

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

Edited November 30, 2014 by impulse

[midas]

it's not evaporated Where is it now ?

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/73000/Cat-with-Gold-Teeth--73457.jpg

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

[Harsh Jones]

Where do you get this 1980 to 2005 time frame ?

If you bought gold in year 2000 at $260, you would have almost doubled your money by 2005.

But I understand your point. I concede that old lay dormant for quite awhile. But I just happen to think that now is not a good time to be bearish on gold. It is probably the worst time in a generation to be bearish on gold. Don't look at gold. Look at the credit cycle. The credit cycle which is the bull market in bonds is 33 years old. The fed funds rate is ZERO. It doesn't get any lower then that. This is the last days of this credit cycle. Just like the last days of the previous when interest rates were 1%. People who bought gold in the $35 to $250 range in the 60's and 70's never lost. That is a pretty big window to buy. Between $35 and $250. These are the last days of the current credit cycle and gold has been gyrating between $260 and $2000. I happen to believe that the new floor will be above $2000. The new FLOOR. Because history tells us that the new floor is always higher. And I am just talking about the floor. Who knows what the new top will be.

I get the 1980-2005 time frame from a calendar.

You are aware that interest rates were around 17% in 1980 right ? That was the end of the last credit cycle and shortly before the beginning of the next one, which is still ongoing today.

[mccw]

Technology will get us there eventually as it has always done in the past

http://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/Bus-powered-food-waste-human-poo-arrives-Bath/story-24560751-detail/story.html

===================================

It's a very narrow view that sees the fuel as the main contributor to environmental issues. The acquisition of the raw materials for the steel, tyres, batteries, etc and the associated machinery involved with the manufacture of the components are huge factors in the environmental equation, as it the disposal of the machinery at the end of it's life.

My point is not so much the fuel source as the technological developments that will change the demand requirements for the materials, components and machinery you are talking about. They might even discover something that gold can be used for eventually to actually give it something other than an imaginary value.

Gold makes great speaker cable I've been told on good authority

[Orac]

Technology will get us there eventually as it has always done in the past

http://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/Bus-powered-food-waste-human-poo-arrives-Bath/story-24560751-detail/story.html

===================================

It's a very narrow view that sees the fuel as the main contributor to environmental issues. The acquisition of the raw materials for the steel, tyres, batteries, etc and the associated machinery involved with the manufacture of the components are huge factors in the environmental equation, as it the disposal of the machinery at the end of it's life.

My point is not so much the fuel source as the technological developments that will change the demand requirements for the materials, components and machinery you are talking about. They might even discover something that gold can be used for eventually to actually give it something other than an imaginary value.

Gold makes great speaker cable I've been told on good authority

You are right at the moment on that but i would expect technological advancement to consign speaker cables to the same box as the record player soon.

[Harsh Jones]

Technology will get us there eventually as it has always done in the past

http://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/Bus-powered-food-waste-human-poo-arrives-Bath/story-24560751-detail/story.html

===================================

It's a very narrow view that sees the fuel as the main contributor to environmental issues. The acquisition of the raw materials for the steel, tyres, batteries, etc and the associated machinery involved with the manufacture of the components are huge factors in the environmental equation, as it the disposal of the machinery at the end of it's life.

My point is not so much the fuel source as the technological developments that will change the demand requirements for the materials, components and machinery you are talking about. They might even discover something that gold can be used for eventually to actually give it something other than an imaginary value.

Gold makes great speaker cable I've been told on good authority

You are right at the moment on that but i would expect technological advancement to consign speaker cables to the same box as the record player soon.

A small amount of gold is used in almost every sophisticated electronic device. This includes: cell phones, calculators, personal digital assistants, global positioning system units and other small electronic devices.

Gold is used in many places in the standard desktop or laptop computer. The rapid and accurate transmission of digital information through the computer and from one component to another requires an efficient and reliable conductor. Gold meets these requirements better than any other metal.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Harsh Jones

[VegasVic]

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Gold makes great speaker cable I've been told on good authority

You are right at the moment on that but i would expect technological advancement to consign speaker cables to the same box as the record player soon.

A small amount of gold is used in almost every sophisticated electronic device. This includes: cell phones, calculators, personal digital assistants, global positioning system units and other small electronic devices.

Gold is used in many places in the standard desktop or laptop computer. The rapid and accurate transmission of digital information through the computer and from one component to another requires an efficient and reliable conductor. Gold meets these requirements better than any other metal.

While that may be very true, less than 10% of gold mined annually goes for industrial usage, the number use to be in the mid teens but most dentists stopped using gold for fillings and crowns many years ago BTW did any of you gold bugs here see the results of the Swiss elections today??? The Swiss voted to stop backing their currency with any gold, it looks like the plumetting price of gold could be with us for a while

[Harsh Jones]

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While that may be very true, less than 10% of gold mined annually goes for industrial usage, the number use to be in the mid teens but most dentists stopped using gold for fillings and crowns many years ago BTW did any of you gold bugs here see the results of the Swiss elections today??? The Swiss voted to stop backing their currency with any gold, it looks like the plumetting price of gold could be with us for a while

[7] "Currently, Mr. LaLoggia has this to say: 'There is simply nothing in the economic picture today to cause a rush into gold. The technical damage caused by the decline is enormous and it cannot be erased quickly. Avoid gold and gold stocks.'" New York Times, August 19.

[8] "'Gold was an inflation hedge in the early 1970s,' the Citibank letter says. 'But money is now a gold-price hedge.'" New York Times, August 29.

[9] "Private American purchases of gold, once this was legalized at the end of 1974, never materialized on a large scale. If the gold bugs have indeed been routed, special responsibilities fall on the victorious dollar." New York Times, August 29.

[10] "Some experts, with good records in gold trading, declare it is still too early to buy bullion." New York Times, September 12.

[11] "Wall Street's biggest brokerage houses, after having scorned gold investments during the bargain days of the late 1960s and early 1970s, made a great display of arriving late at the party." New York Times, September 12.

So, anything sound familiar here? Yes, it was a brutal time for gold investors, but what's obvious is that those who looked only at the price and ignored the fundamentals ended up eating their words and dispensing horrible advice. Investors who followed the "wisdom of the day" missed out on one of the greatest opportunities for profit in their lifetimes. BTW the Swiss vote and industrial uses of gold have very little to do with what sets the price.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Harsh Jones

[VegasVic]

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While that may be very true, less than 10% of gold mined annually goes for industrial usage, the number use to be in the mid teens but most dentists stopped using gold for fillings and crowns many years ago alt=wai2.gif width=20 height=20> BTW did any of you gold bugs here see the results of the Swiss elections today??? The Swiss voted to stop backing their currency with any gold, it looks like the plumetting price of gold could be with us for a while alt=whistling.gif>

[7] "Currently, Mr. LaLoggia has this to say: 'There is simply nothing in the economic picture today to cause a rush into gold. The technical damage caused by the decline is enormous and it cannot be erased quickly. Avoid gold and gold stocks.'" New York Times, August 19.

[8] "'Gold was an inflation hedge in the early 1970s,' the Citibank letter says. 'But money is now a gold-price hedge.'" New York Times, August 29.

[9] "Private American purchases of gold, once this was legalized at the end of 1974, never materialized on a large scale. If the gold bugs have indeed been routed, special responsibilities fall on the victorious dollar." New York Times, August 29.

[10] "Some experts, with good records in gold trading, declare it is still too early to buy bullion." New York Times, September 12.

[11] "Wall Street's biggest brokerage houses, after having scorned gold investments during the bargain days of the late 1960s and early 1970s, made a great display of arriving late at the party." New York Times, September 12.

So, anything sound familiar here? Yes, it was a brutal time for gold investors, but what's obvious is that those who looked only at the price and ignored the fundamentals ended up eating their words and dispensing horrible advice. Investors who followed the "wisdom of the day" missed out on one of the greatest opportunities for profit in their lifetimes. BTW the Swiss vote and industrial uses of gold have very little to do with what sets the price.

" industrial uses of gold have very little to do with what sets the price"??? Hmmm, it seems that I was making that very point in my post in replying to your proposition that gold has all kinds of usage in modern high tech electronics In other words the actual industrial demand for gold has been dropping over the past 20 years so making a point that gold has all those uses seems like a very flawed argument if you think that the price of gold will be rising anytime soon If you don't think that the Swiss vote will have any impact on the price of gold then you are sadly mistaken my friend, just check out the carnage when the gold pits in NY close for the day tomorrow Gold as well as many other "hard" commodities are in for a real tough time for the foreseeable future, like it or not

[jpinx]

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While that may be very true, less than 10% of gold mined annually goes for industrial usage, the number use to be in the mid teens but most dentists stopped using gold for fillings and crowns many years ago alt=wai2.gif width=20 height=20> BTW did any of you gold bugs here see the results of the Swiss elections today??? The Swiss voted to stop backing their currency with any gold, it looks like the plumetting price of gold could be with us for a while alt=whistling.gif>

[7] "Currently, Mr. LaLoggia has this to say: 'There is simply nothing in the economic picture today to cause a rush into gold. The technical damage caused by the decline is enormous and it cannot be erased quickly. Avoid gold and gold stocks.'" New York Times, August 19.

[8] "'Gold was an inflation hedge in the early 1970s,' the Citibank letter says. 'But money is now a gold-price hedge.'" New York Times, August 29.

[9] "Private American purchases of gold, once this was legalized at the end of 1974, never materialized on a large scale. If the gold bugs have indeed been routed, special responsibilities fall on the victorious dollar." New York Times, August 29.

[10] "Some experts, with good records in gold trading, declare it is still too early to buy bullion." New York Times, September 12.

[11] "Wall Street's biggest brokerage houses, after having scorned gold investments during the bargain days of the late 1960s and early 1970s, made a great display of arriving late at the party." New York Times, September 12.

So, anything sound familiar here? Yes, it was a brutal time for gold investors, but what's obvious is that those who looked only at the price and ignored the fundamentals ended up eating their words and dispensing horrible advice. Investors who followed the "wisdom of the day" missed out on one of the greatest opportunities for profit in their lifetimes. BTW the Swiss vote and industrial uses of gold have very little to do with what sets the price.

" industrial uses of gold have very little to do with what sets the price"??? Hmmm, it seems that I was making that very point in my post in replying to your proposition that gold has all kinds of usage in modern high tech electronics In other words the actual industrial demand for gold has been dropping over the past 20 years so making a point that gold has all those uses seems like a very flawed argument if you think that the price of gold will be rising anytime soon If you don't think that the Swiss vote will have any impact on the price of gold then you are sadly mistaken my friend, just check out the carnage when the gold pits in NY close for the day tomorrow Gold as well as many other "hard" commodities are in for a real tough time for the foreseeable future, like it or not

Indeed - and those who genuinely take a long term view would probably do well to wait for the crash and then quietly buy gold and stash it for the next 25 years Maybe a good investment for the kids / grandkids

[Naam]

Maybe a good investment for the kids / grandkids

[SheungWan]

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While that may be very true, less than 10% of gold mined annually goes for industrial usage, the number use to be in the mid teens but most dentists stopped using gold for fillings and crowns many years ago BTW did any of you gold bugs here see the results of the Swiss elections today??? The Swiss voted to stop backing their currency with any gold, it looks like the plumetting price of gold could be with us for a while

The Swiss franc has traditionally been a safe have currency, but was suffering badly from hot money dropping into Toblerone Country, so the SCB suddenly intervened into the FX markets and said no more, we are now trading within a narrow band against the Euro. Dropped overnight against USD. Highly unlikely that they would reverse that. Swiss industry was getting badly beaten up. Not surprising the way the vote went. Suicidal, but hey the gold bugs will roll on to the next crisis of opportunity that never quite happens.

[Harsh Jones]

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[11] "Wall Street's biggest brokerage houses, after having scorned gold investments during the bargain days of the late 1960s and early 1970s, made a great display of arriving late at the party." New York Times, September 12.

So, anything sound familiar here? Yes, it was a brutal time for gold investors, but what's obvious is that those who looked only at the price and ignored the fundamentals ended up eating their words and dispensing horrible advice. Investors who followed the "wisdom of the day" missed out on one of the greatest opportunities for profit in their lifetimes. BTW the Swiss vote and industrial uses of gold have very little to do with what sets the price.

" industrial uses of gold have very little to do with what sets the price"??? Hmmm, it seems that I was making that very point in my post in replying to your proposition that gold has all kinds of usage in modern high tech electronics In other words the actual industrial demand for gold has been dropping over the past 20 years so making a point that gold has all those uses seems like a very flawed argument if you think that the price of gold will be rising anytime soon If you don't think that the Swiss vote will have any impact on the price of gold then you are sadly mistaken my friend, just check out the carnage when the gold pits in NY close for the day tomorrow Gold as well as many other "hard" commodities are in for a real tough time for the foreseeable future, like it or not

Lightweights.

If gold was a "hard commodity" then why does it have a currency code ? Last time I checked, iron ore didn't..

ISO 4217 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_4217

So Japan's currency code is JPY—JP for Japan and Y for yen. ... Codes for precious metals Gold (XAU)

Why is it on line one on the asset side of the ECB balance sheet ? No oil on this balance sheet. No lumber, copper.. ore

Why did the Bank for International Settlements under Basel 3 in 2012 declare gold a tier one asset ? Aluminum ? Doubtful

Gold Becomes a Tier 1 Asset Class for Banks, A ... - StratRisks

stratrisks.com/geostrat/6732

Jun 29, 2012 - As part of the Bank of International Settlements (BIS), the BCBS is reviewing the upcoming new Basel III rules.

[Harsh Jones]

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Indeed - and those who genuinely take a long term view would probably do well to wait for the crash and then quietly buy gold and stash it for the next 25 years Maybe a good investment for the kids / grandkids

So you think after interest rates fell for 33 years straight down to zero (to present), that they will fall for another 25 years ?

Noted.

[jpinx]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Indeed - and those who genuinely take a long term view would probably do well to wait for the crash and then quietly buy gold and stash it for the next 25 years Maybe a good investment for the kids / grandkids

So you think after interest rates fell for 33 years straight down to zero (to present), that they will fall for another 25 years ?

Noted.

For the avoidance of doubt -- rates have been up and down over a fairly wide range during the last 30-odd years ....

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/boeapps/iadb/repo.asp

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/interest-rates/Pages/TextView.aspx?data=longtermrate

and an interesting long term analysis.....

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/talking-numbers/222-years-interest-history-one-chart-173358843.html

[midas]

Just how much ( BLANK ) did George Osborne take last night?

https://twitter.com/keewa/status/537594508641591296/photo/1

jeez , now I can understand why he has to escape from things occasionally

The Government will have to borrow as much as £75bn more than it intended over the next five years, delivering a damaging blow to Chancellor George Osborne’s hopes of claiming that the Government has the country’s deficit under control.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/autumn-statement-bleak-borrowing-prediction-rocks-george-osbornes-deficit-hopes-9894401.html

[Harsh Jones]

So you think after interest rates fell for 33 years straight down to zero (to present), that they will fall for another 25 years ?

Noted.

For the avoidance of doubt -- rates have been up and down over a fairly wide range during the last 30-odd years ....

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/boeapps/iadb/repo.asp

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/interest-rates/Pages/TextView.aspx?data=longtermrate

and an interesting long term analysis.....

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/talking-numbers/222-years-interest-history-one-chart-173358843.html

Bond prices have been rising (interest rates falling) in the same trend channel down for over 30 years.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Harsh Jones

[Harsh Jones]

This is what I mean about the Swiss vote meaning nothing. A day after the No vote, gold is up $50.

[Digitalnomade]

when it s a good time to buy gold?

[MJP]

when it s a good time to buy gold?

Whenever she says "oooo look goldshop".

[midas]

Well this is certainly a whole new definition of a bail out…………….

the UK citizens have got to go into ( more ) debt in order to bail out the Government

Autumn Statement: George Osborne is counting on a rise in family debt

The OBR sees the household sector as a whole spending considerably more than its total income over the next five years.This implies an increase in household debt, as we report today, to pay for all that spending.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/autumn-statement-george-osborne-is-counting-on-a-rise-in-family-debt-9904480.html

[SheungWan]

Households don't have to do anything. That is a misrepresentation. There is a statistical expectation that more confident households are likely to seek/gain access to credit. Usual hysteric spinning from the usual sources.

[midas]

deja vu

Wall Street Moves to Put Taxpayers on the Hook for Derivatives Trades

Wall Street lobbyists are trying to secure taxpayer backing for many derivatives trades as part of budget talks to avert a government shutdown.

According to multiple Democratic sources, banks are pushing hard to include the controversial provision in funding legislation that would keep the government operating after Dec. 11. Top negotiators in the House are taking the derivatives provision seriously, and may include it in the final bill, the sources said.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/10/28/house-set-to-vote-on-2-bills-is-seen-as-an-ally-of-wall-st/?_r=0

Edited December 7, 2014 by midas

[MJP]

Reality for many in the UK . . . food banks . . .

'Pay benefits faster' to reduce hunger, MPs urge

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-30346060

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30323682

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30366020

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-30239373

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-25402221

Oh really?. . .

Home owners could cope with rate rise, says Bank

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30374369

[SheungWan]

deja vu

Wall Street Moves to Put Taxpayers on the Hook for Derivatives Trades

Wall Street lobbyists are trying to secure taxpayer backing for many derivatives trades as part of budget talks to avert a government shutdown.

According to multiple Democratic sources, banks are pushing hard to include the controversial provision in funding legislation that would keep the government operating after Dec. 11. Top negotiators in the House are taking the derivatives provision seriously, and may include it in the final bill, the sources said.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/10/28/house-set-to-vote-on-2-bills-is-seen-as-an-ally-of-wall-st/?_r=0

Good to see keen liberal readers of the New York Times copying and pasting from October 2013.

Edited December 8, 2014 by SheungWan

[SheungWan]

Reality for many in the UK . . . food banks . . .

'Pay benefits faster' to reduce hunger, MPs urge

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-30346060

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30323682

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30366020

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-30239373

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-25402221

Oh really?. . .

Home owners could cope with rate rise, says Bank

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30374369

Next week, no doubt, we can look forward to articles blaming low interest rates for the penury suffered by poor pensioners getting insufficient returns on their bank deposits.

Edited December 8, 2014 by SheungWan

[MJP]

Reality for many in the UK . . . food banks . . .

'Pay benefits faster' to reduce hunger, MPs urge

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-30346060

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30323682

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30366020

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-30239373

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-25402221

Oh really?. . .

Home owners could cope with rate rise, says Bank

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30374369

Next week, no doubt, we can look forward to articles blaming low interest rates for the penury suffered by poor pensioners getting insufficient returns on their bank deposits.

One of the comments . . . .

59.

Fred

2 HOURS AGO

I volunteer in a food bank and I hope this thread doesnt get filled with 'scrounger' rubbish.

Two thirds of the people who use the foodbank are working but on such low wages or 0 hour contracts they after bills/rent cannot afford to eat. People of all classes too.

It is appalling that this government sanction people on benefits for no reason at all. In a rich country like this it is so wrong.

[MJP]

Oil keeps sliding on oversupply fears

The price of oil has hit another five-year low as fears of oversupply continue to mount.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30379956

Okay, we know oil can be pumped to oblivion in the short term but a few interesting comments about the demand side . . .

Global confidence was also undermined on Monday after European Central Bank governing council member Ewald Nowotny warned that the eurozone economy was experiencing a "massive weakening", sending the euro lower against the dollar and the pound.

Tony Cross, market analyst at Trustnet Direct trading group, said the figures indicated that the world's second-largest economy was slowing down: "Chinese trade data fell well short of expectations and this has sent traders scurrying for the exits as the new week gets under way."

Edited December 8, 2014 by MJP

[SheungWan]

Reality for many in the UK . . . food banks . . .

'Pay benefits faster' to reduce hunger, MPs urge

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-30346060

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30323682

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30366020

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-30239373

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-25402221

Oh really?. . .

Home owners could cope with rate rise, says Bank

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30374369

Next week, no doubt, we can look forward to articles blaming low interest rates for the penury suffered by poor pensioners getting insufficient returns on their bank deposits.

One of the comments . . . .

59.

Fred

2 HOURS AGO

I volunteer in a food bank and I hope this thread doesnt get filled with 'scrounger' rubbish.

Two thirds of the people who use the foodbank are working but on such low wages or 0 hour contracts they after bills/rent cannot afford to eat. People of all classes too.

It is appalling that this government sanction people on benefits for no reason at all. In a rich country like this it is so wrong.

There are plenty of charities in all countries you can volunteer for in order to assist the more unfortunate.