Financial Crisis

[lannarebirth]

300 Trillion in derivative losses doesn't matter but 1 Trillion might.

[midas]

Sadly, most Americans ( and even some Swiss particualarly one living in Pattaya ) don’t understand how derivatives work and so there is very little public outrage.

But the truth is that people should be marching in the streets over this. If this provision becomes law, the American people could potentially be on the hook for absolutely massive losses…

This is not the first time these banks have tried to pull off such a coup. Bank lobbyists tried to do a similar thing last year… it was stopped in the Senate at that time.

This time they have more of a sense of urgency then ever, because we are moving into a period of time when the big banks may begin losing tremendous amounts of money on derivatives contracts.

For example, the rapidly plunging price of oil could potentially mean gigantic losses for the big banks. Many large shale oil producers locked in their profits for 2015 and 2016 through derivatives contracts when the price of oil was above $100 a barrel. As I write this, the price of oil is down to $65 a barrel, and many analysts expect it to go much lower

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/new-law-make-taxpayers-potentially-liable-trillions-derivatives-losses

[mccw]

Russia CB just put the interest rate up to 17%

How can I get some of that?

Any one know?

( Rouble down 50% this year. Of course I could go down more; but at 17% I think it's worth a little punt on. )

[jpinx]

Russia CB just put the interest rate up to 17%

How can I get some of that?

Any one know?

( Rouble down 50% this year. Of course I could go down more; but at 17% I think it's worth a little punt on. )

Me too .. I'd give it a punt for a term if they start paying 20% tax-free/paid. The trick is to make the term the right length so it matures at the same time as the exchange rate is up to "normal" -- you could win twice

Looking at this

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30491801

-- getting 20% might be easy -- maybe we should hang on for 30%

[Naam]

Russia CB just put the interest rate up to 17%

How can I get some of that?

Any one know?

( Rouble down 50% this year. Of course I could go down more; but at 17% I think it's worth a little punt on. )

Me too .. I'd give it a punt for a term if they start paying 20% tax-free/paid. The trick is to make the term the right length so it matures at the same time as the exchange rate is up to "normal" -- you could win twice

Looking at this

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30491801

-- getting 20% might be easy -- maybe we should hang on for 30%

Ruble bond interest is paid tax-free! yields vary depending on maturity. benchmark bond maturity 2028 (debtor Russia) ISIN XS0808638612, YTM presently = 12.79% / CY 10.76%

[jpinx]

Russia CB just put the interest rate up to 17%

How can I get some of that?

Any one know?

( Rouble down 50% this year. Of course I could go down more; but at 17% I think it's worth a little punt on. )

Me too .. I'd give it a punt for a term if they start paying 20% tax-free/paid. The trick is to make the term the right length so it matures at the same time as the exchange rate is up to "normal" -- you could win twice

Looking at this

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30491801

-- getting 20% might be easy -- maybe we should hang on for 30%

Ruble bond interest is paid tax-free! yields vary depending on maturity. benchmark bond maturity 2028 (debtor Russia) ISIN XS0808638612, YTM presently = 12.79% / CY 10.76%

Bonds are interesting, not sure how the rates you quote relate to the reported 17% 14 years is a long spell for an old man. More interesting would be some form of term deposit for 7 to 10 years maybe. That's probably about the periodicity of the Russian cycle. The interest rate is only part of the attraction. Buying into Roubles now is very cheap - same as gold, oil, etc The trick is to time getting out with the top of the roubles curve on the FX

[Naam]

Russia CB just put the interest rate up to 17%

How can I get some of that?

Any one know?

( Rouble down 50% this year. Of course I could go down more; but at 17% I think it's worth a little punt on. )

Me too .. I'd give it a punt for a term if they start paying 20% tax-free/paid. The trick is to make the term the right length so it matures at the same time as the exchange rate is up to "normal" -- you could win twice

Looking at this

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30491801

-- getting 20% might be easy -- maybe we should hang on for 30%

Ruble bond interest is paid tax-free! yields vary depending on maturity. benchmark bond maturity 2028 (debtor Russia) ISIN XS0808638612, YTM presently = 12.79% / CY 10.76%

Bonds are interesting, not sure how the rates you quote relate to the reported 17% 14 years is a long spell for an old man. More interesting would be some form of term deposit for 7 to 10 years maybe. That's probably about the periodicity of the Russian cycle. The interest rate is only part of the attraction. Buying into Roubles now is very cheap - same as gold, oil, etc The trick is to time getting out with the top of the roubles curve on the FX

you are mixing up the Central Bank's rate with the rate which is available for investors in the market. besides that, the maturity of any bond is irrelevant because you can enjoy the yield or sell the bond any time, i.e. no waiting for maturity required.

p.s. once you find the trick how to "get out at the top" please let me know. i promise to be very grateful

[Gecko123]

Oil in an insane 'James Dean' game of chicken, or Japanese "kamakasi" monetary policy definitely my top two choices for a "black swan" event.

My VIX apprehension index is spiking big time.

[jpinx]

p.s. once you find the trick how to "get out at the top" please let me know. i promise to be very grateful

==============================

I managed it once with Deutchmarks in the early 1970's and again with Croatian Kuna when they were breaking away from Yugoslavia, but both cases were only possible because I was actually in the relevant country. I have no plans to visit Russia anytime soon

I saw something about 10% in a Myanmar bank recently -- probably a safer bet.

[Naam]

p.s. once you find the trick how to "get out at the top" please let me know. i promise to be very grateful

==============================

I managed it once with Deutchmarks in the early 1970's and again with Croatian Kuna when they were breaking away from Yugoslavia, but both cases were only possible because I was actually in the relevant country. I have no plans to visit Russia anytime soon

I saw something about 10% in a Myanmar bank recently -- probably a safer bet.

1970's a typo?

to the best of my knowledge Croatia became independent 20 years later (1991) and the currency Kuna exists since 1994.

[jpinx]

p.s. once you find the trick how to "get out at the top" please let me know. i promise to be very grateful

==============================

I managed it once with Deutchmarks in the early 1970's and again with Croatian Kuna when they were breaking away from Yugoslavia, but both cases were only possible because I was actually in the relevant country. I have no plans to visit Russia anytime soon

I saw something about 10% in a Myanmar bank recently -- probably a safer bet.

1970's a typo?

to the best of my knowledge Croatia became independent 20 years later (1991) and the currency Kuna exists since 1994.

60's and 70's was the deutschmark win -- I was living there for 3 years.

I went into Yugoslavia and came out of Croatia - exciting times The old currency of Dinar was in a melt down and they introduced the Kuna to try to stop the rot. Having a "hard" currency on hand made it easy to earn a significant %age per day.

[jpinx]

p.s. once you find the trick how to "get out at the top" please let me know. i promise to be very grateful

==============================

I managed it once with Deutchmarks in the early 1970's and again with Croatian Kuna when they were breaking away from Yugoslavia, but both cases were only possible because I was actually in the relevant country. I have no plans to visit Russia anytime soon

I saw something about 10% in a Myanmar bank recently -- probably a safer bet.

1970's a typo?

to the best of my knowledge Croatia became independent 20 years later (1991) and the currency Kuna exists since 1994.

60's and 70's was the deutschmark win -- I was living there for 3 years.

I went into Yugoslavia and came out of Croatia - exciting times The old currency of Dinar was in a melt down and they introduced the Kuna to try to stop the rot. Having a "hard" currency on hand made it easy to earn a significant %age per day.

[Naam]

p.s. once you find the trick how to "get out at the top" please let me know. i promise to be very grateful

==============================

I managed it once with Deutchmarks in the early 1970's and again with Croatian Kuna when they were breaking away from Yugoslavia, but both cases were only possible because I was actually in the relevant country. I have no plans to visit Russia anytime soon

I saw something about 10% in a Myanmar bank recently -- probably a safer bet.

1970's a typo?

to the best of my knowledge Croatia became independent 20 years later (1991) and the currency Kuna exists since 1994.

60's and 70's was the deutschmark win -- I was living there for 3 years.

I went into Yugoslavia and came out of Croatia - exciting times The old currency of Dinar was in a melt down and they introduced the Kuna to try to stop the rot. Having a "hard" currency on hand made it easy to earn a significant %age per day.

the Kuna was introduced in 1994!

[jpinx]

p.s. once you find the trick how to "get out at the top" please let me know. i promise to be very grateful

==============================

I managed it once with Deutchmarks in the early 1970's and again with Croatian Kuna when they were breaking away from Yugoslavia, but both cases were only possible because I was actually in the relevant country. I have no plans to visit Russia anytime soon

I saw something about 10% in a Myanmar bank recently -- probably a safer bet.

1970's a typo?

to the best of my knowledge Croatia became independent 20 years later (1991) and the currency Kuna exists since 1994.

60's and 70's was the deutschmark win -- I was living there for 3 years.

I went into Yugoslavia and came out of Croatia - exciting times The old currency of Dinar was in a melt down and they introduced the Kuna to try to stop the rot. Having a "hard" currency on hand made it easy to earn a significant %age per day.

the Kuna was introduced in 1994!

Sheesh -- what's with the 3rd degree?

I was in and out of yugoslavia and croatia over a period of about ten years in the 80's and 90's. No - I'm not telling all the details.....

[jpinx]

The financial world's gone completely mad - now there's a thing called "Negative Interest" -- now being applied by Switzerland and apparently some German banks too. Why don't they just refuse to accept deposits when they're over a certain limit?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30528404#sa-ns_mchannel=rss&ns_source=PublicRSS20-sa

[SheungWan]

The financial world's gone completely mad - now there's a thing called "Negative Interest" -- now being applied by Switzerland and apparently some German banks too. Why don't they just refuse to accept deposits when they're over a certain limit?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30528404#sa-ns_mchannel=rss&ns_source=PublicRSS20-sa

Actually its your proposal which is the mad one.

[MJP]

Draghi comments send euro to lowest level since 2010

In a newspaper interview, he hinted again that the bank might soon start a policy of quantitative easing to try to stimulate the eurozone economies.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30654641

[Harsh Jones]

Now we watch and Wait.. As the U.S. Puts pressure on its creditors . (Russia)

And the further oil falls, the less petrodollars there is for US allies in the Middle East to recycle into US debt. Since the US issues new debt to pay off the old debt (similar to how Bernard Madoff issued new promissory notes to pay off old ones), this could be a problem of the mathematical verity

[Gecko123]

I think the theory that lower oil prices are going to stimulate consumption because consumers will have more cash in their pockets overlooks a very important side effect of lower oil prices.

Lower oil prices are going to increase deflationary pressures across Europe, Japan, China, and the US. These deflationary pressures are going to keep central banks from raising the short of the yield curve and supress yields on the long end of the yield curve as well. Because of this, investors will receive lower returns on bonds going forward. This lower income will largely offset the stimulative effect of lower oil prices.

It should also be noted that due to aging populations in Japan, China and the US, older investors' ability to tolerate higher risk by investing in stocks will be limited, and thus the impact of lower rates will have a disproportionate negative impact on these countries with older populations. In addition, as populations age, they tend to consume less.

[SheungWan]

I think the theory that lower oil prices are going to stimulate consumption because consumers will have more cash in their pockets overlooks a very important side effect of lower oil prices.

Lower oil prices are going to increase deflationary pressures across Europe, Japan, China, and the US. These deflationary pressures are going to keep central banks from raising the short of the yield curve and supress yields on the long end of the yield curve as well. Because of this, investors will receive lower returns on bonds going forward. This lower income will largely offset the stimulative effect of lower oil prices.

It should also be noted that due to aging populations in Japan, China and the US, older investors' ability to tolerate higher risk by investing in stocks will be limited, and thus the impact of lower rates will have a disproportionate negative impact on these countries with older populations. In addition, as populations age, they tend to consume less.

Hello! Its second hand economics textbooks time.

[SheungWan]

Now we watch and Wait.. As the U.S. Puts pressure on its creditors . (Russia)

And the further oil falls, the less petrodollars there is for US allies in the Middle East to recycle into US debt. Since the US issues new debt to pay off the old debt (similar to how Bernard Madoff issued new promissory notes to pay off old ones), this could be a problem of the mathematical verity

You forget the small issue of USA's increasing self-sufficiency in oil, but never mind this little matter of mathematical verity.

[Gecko123]

I think the theory that lower oil prices are going to stimulate consumption because consumers will have more cash in their pockets overlooks a very important side effect of lower oil prices.

Lower oil prices are going to increase deflationary pressures across Europe, Japan, China, and the US. These deflationary pressures are going to keep central banks from raising the short of the yield curve and supress yields on the long end of the yield curve as well. Because of this, investors will receive lower returns on bonds going forward. This lower income will largely offset the stimulative effect of lower oil prices.

It should also be noted that due to aging populations in Japan, China and the US, older investors' ability to tolerate higher risk by investing in stocks will be limited, and thus the impact of lower rates will have a disproportionate negative impact on these countries with older populations. In addition, as populations age, they tend to consume less.

Hello! Its second hand economics textbooks time.

This may be Keyensian theory 101, but applying that theory to how falling fuel prices will effect consumption in an environment where central banks are battling deflation and populations are consuming less because they are aging is an insightful analysis which I doubt you can find in a textbook.

At any rate, I've yet to hear any of the talking heads in the financial press point any of this out, and I thought I share my thoughts with other forum members.

Hope that's OK with you, Mr Know It All.

[midas]

I think the theory that lower oil prices are going to stimulate consumption because consumers will have more cash in their pockets overlooks a very important side effect of lower oil prices.

Lower oil prices are going to increase deflationary pressures across Europe, Japan, China, and the US. These deflationary pressures are going to keep central banks from raising the short of the yield curve and supress yields on the long end of the yield curve as well. Because of this, investors will receive lower returns on bonds going forward. This lower income will largely offset the stimulative effect of lower oil prices.

It should also be noted that due to aging populations in Japan, China and the US, older investors' ability to tolerate higher risk by investing in stocks will be limited, and thus the impact of lower rates will have a disproportionate negative impact on these countries with older populations. In addition, as populations age, they tend to consume less.

Hello! Its second hand economics textbooks time.

This may be Keyensian theory 101, but applying that theory to how falling fuel prices will effect consumption in an environment where central banks are battling deflation and populations are consuming less because they are aging is an insightful analysis which I doubt you can find in a textbook.

At any rate, I've yet to hear any of the talking heads in the financial press point any of this out, and I thought I share my thoughts with other forum members.

Hope that's OK with you, Mr Know It All.

" Hope that's OK with you, Mr Know It All ".

[midas]

Now we watch and Wait.. As the U.S. Puts pressure on its creditors . (Russia)

And the further oil falls, the less petrodollars there is for US allies in the Middle East to recycle into US debt. Since the US issues new debt to pay off the old debt (similar to how Bernard Madoff issued new promissory notes to pay off old ones), this could be a problem of the mathematical verity

You forget the small issue of USA's increasing self-sufficiency in oil, but never mind this little matter of mathematical verity.

" USA's increasing self-sufficiency in oil."

You must be having a giraffe

from the comic you subscribe to...................

The First Shale Casualty: WBH Energy Files For Bankruptcy; Many More Coming

" American oil and gas companies have gone heavily into debt during the energy boom, increasing their borrowings by 55% since 2010, to almost $200 billion.

Their need to service that debt helps explain why U.S. producers plan to continue pumping oil even as crude trades for less than $50 a barrel, down 55% since last June.

But signs of strain are building in the oil patch, where revenue growth hasn’t kept pace with borrowing. On Sunday, a private company that drills in Texas, WBH Energy LP, and its partners, filed for bankruptcy protection, saying a lender refused to advance more money and citing debt of between $10 million and $50 million. Neither the Austin-based company nor its lawyers responded to requests for comment.

Energy analysts warn defaults could be coming. “The group is not positioned for this downturn,” said Daniel Katzenberg, an analyst at Robert W. Baird & Co. “There are too many ugly balance sheets.”

http://www.wsj.com/articles/deep-debt-keeps-oil-firms-pumping-1420594436?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories

[lannarebirth]

Now we watch and Wait.. As the U.S. Puts pressure on its creditors . (Russia)

And the further oil falls, the less petrodollars there is for US allies in the Middle East to recycle into US debt. Since the US issues new debt to pay off the old debt (similar to how Bernard Madoff issued new promissory notes to pay off old ones), this could be a problem of the mathematical verity

You forget the small issue of USA's increasing self-sufficiency in oil, but never mind this little matter of mathematical verity.

" USA's increasing self-sufficiency in oil."

You must be having a giraffe

from the comic you subscribe to...................

The First Shale Casualty: WBH Energy Files For Bankruptcy; Many More Coming

" American oil and gas companies have gone heavily into debt during the energy boom, increasing their borrowings by 55% since 2010, to almost $200 billion.

Their need to service that debt helps explain why U.S. producers plan to continue pumping oil even as crude trades for less than $50 a barrel, down 55% since last June.

But signs of strain are building in the oil patch, where revenue growth hasn’t kept pace with borrowing. On Sunday, a private company that drills in Texas, WBH Energy LP, and its partners, filed for bankruptcy protection, saying a lender refused to advance more money and citing debt of between $10 million and $50 million. Neither the Austin-based company nor its lawyers responded to requests for comment.

Energy analysts warn defaults could be coming. “The group is not positioned for this downturn,” said Daniel Katzenberg, an analyst at Robert W. Baird & Co. “There are too many ugly balance sheets.”

http://www.wsj.com/articles/deep-debt-keeps-oil-firms-pumping-1420594436?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories

You know, that oil isn't going anywhere, no matter who now has or who in the future will have, the rights to drill for it.

[midas]

" USA's increasing self-sufficiency in oil."

You must be having a giraffe

from the comic you subscribe to...................

The First Shale Casualty: WBH Energy Files For Bankruptcy; Many More Coming

" American oil and gas companies have gone heavily into debt during the energy boom, increasing their borrowings by 55% since 2010, to almost $200 billion.

Their need to service that debt helps explain why U.S. producers plan to continue pumping oil even as crude trades for less than $50 a barrel, down 55% since last June.

But signs of strain are building in the oil patch, where revenue growth hasn’t kept pace with borrowing. On Sunday, a private company that drills in Texas, WBH Energy LP, and its partners, filed for bankruptcy protection, saying a lender refused to advance more money and citing debt of between $10 million and $50 million. Neither the Austin-based company nor its lawyers responded to requests for comment.

Energy analysts warn defaults could be coming. “The group is not positioned for this downturn,” said Daniel Katzenberg, an analyst at Robert W. Baird & Co. “There are too many ugly balance sheets.”

http://www.wsj.com/articles/deep-debt-keeps-oil-firms-pumping-1420594436?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories

You know, that oil isn't going anywhere, no matter who now has or who in the future will have, the rights to drill for it.

but in the meantime........................

" Oil prices need to be around $90 to attract investment capital. So, are companies OK at current oil prices? Hell no! They are dying at these prices. That’s the truth based on real data. The crap that we read that companies are fine at $60/barrel is just that. They get to those prices by excluding important costs like everything except drilling and completion. Why does anyone believe this stuff? "

http://oilprice.com/Interviews/The-Real-Cause-Of-Low-Oil-Prices-Interview-With-Arthur-Berman.html

[SheungWan]

I think the theory that lower oil prices are going to stimulate consumption because consumers will have more cash in their pockets overlooks a very important side effect of lower oil prices.

Lower oil prices are going to increase deflationary pressures across Europe, Japan, China, and the US. These deflationary pressures are going to keep central banks from raising the short of the yield curve and supress yields on the long end of the yield curve as well. Because of this, investors will receive lower returns on bonds going forward. This lower income will largely offset the stimulative effect of lower oil prices.

It should also be noted that due to aging populations in Japan, China and the US, older investors' ability to tolerate higher risk by investing in stocks will be limited, and thus the impact of lower rates will have a disproportionate negative impact on these countries with older populations. In addition, as populations age, they tend to consume less.

Hello! Its second hand economics textbooks time.

This may be Keyensian theory 101, but applying that theory to how falling fuel prices will effect consumption in an environment where central banks are battling deflation and populations are consuming less because they are aging is an insightful analysis which I doubt you can find in a textbook.

At any rate, I've yet to hear any of the talking heads in the financial press point any of this out, and I thought I share my thoughts with other forum members.

Hope that's OK with you, Mr Know It All.

Apparently aging populations suffer most problems with the increasing percentage of dead ones failing to consume.

[ronz28]

Tough for victims to get their money back and avoid going to jail after depositing money in a Chinese bank. Might be safer to buy real estate with your excess money there and let it sit empty.

https://secure.marketwatch.com/story/china-to-get-tough-on-bank-fraud-after-man-wrongfully-jailed-2015-01-26

[SheungWan]

Tough for victims to get their money back and avoid going to jail after depositing money in a Chinese bank. Might be safer to buy real estate with your excess money there and let it sit empty.

https://secure.marketwatch.com/story/china-to-get-tough-on-bank-fraud-after-man-wrongfully-jailed-2015-01-26

One can deposit money in a Chinese bank in Hong Kong and have HK legal protection to fall back on. Secondly, buying property directly in Mainland China without residence is not an easy thing to do. Buying unbuilt properties, particularly in secondary locations not exactly recommended either.

[xylophone]

Well not quite sure whether this is the correct thread for some aspects of this post, but here goes..........below is an interesting article regarding gold and it was the first time that I had seen the comparison/quote by Warren Buffett.

I have to say that I was quite amazed that when the GFC hit, because there were all sorts of posts regarding the fact that fiat currency would cease to exist, that gold would replace it, the world's financial system would collapse and so on, yet here we are a few years on with gold having reached a peak and now plummeting and no sign yet that the world economies have collapsed and that the fiat currency system has also given way to "something else".

I really couldn't see where these "alarmists" were coming from, especially when they often stated that fiat currencies had collapsed in the past and that they were unworkable, yet here we are hundreds of years on, still using one?? What they seemed to miss was that even after the so-called "collapses" in the past, the fiat currency system had resurrected itself.....!!

Anyway onto the post I mentioned..............

Article from Carmel Fisher (Fisher Funds) on Gold………..

"I hesitate before deciding to share my thoughts regarding gold. Last time I wrote about gold, I had fanatics tell me how clueless I was about the greatest asset of all time.

All because I dared to suggest it is not the safe, never-fail investment it is sometimes made out to be.

I am prepared to suffer another backlash because my view is unchanged, and the gold price, which has fallen 8 per cent this year and is now close to a five-year low, suggests others share my view.

Gold is an intriguing asset. Textbooks have always pointed to gold being universal legal tender, accepted virtually everywhere as a means of payment.

Governments and banks hold it in safes and forts. It is the most precious of all precious metals. It acts as a hedge against inflation and is generally owned by investors for safety's sake as it may not fall in calamitous times in the way paper currencies might.

There is a mystique about gold; embossed gold bars and molten gold are more visually appealing than other traditional assets.

But as an investment, gold is not clear-cut; there are as many detractors as supporters.

Gold doesn't meet the traditional criteria for an investment. Gold has limited intrinsic value, no cashflow, no earnings, no yield.

It is generally owned by pessimists as a safety net, whereas most other assets are bought by optimists who buy shares, property or bonds because they think their value will increase.

Warren Buffett has said gold's two biggest shortcomings are: it is not of much use; nor does it produce anything. In 2011 he compared the world's stock of gold (about 170,000 metric tons) with a bundle of productive assets of equal value. The productive assets included all US crop land (160 million hectares producing US$200 billion of crops each year) and 16 Exxon Mobils (the world's most profitable company at the time).

Buffett suggested that in a century the farmland would have produced staggering amounts of crops and Exxon would have delivered trillions in dividends, owning assets worth trillions of dollars. Gold on the other hand would be unchanged in size and still incapable of producing anything.

Gold investments should come into their own in times of uncertainty. The more uncertain the outlook and the bigger the crisis, the better the gold price should perform. Inflation, deflation, government borrowing or a plunging currency - whatever the concern of the day, gold is supposed to be a refuge.

But it has not behaved as the textbooks suggest and gold fans would like. After the most recent price slump, many are saying gold has permanently lost its lustre.

With so much uncertainty in recent years - low economic growth, prolific use of money printing, European woes and the potential of a Greek default - you'd think gold would have been easily the best performing investment. But it hasn't performed and it is hard to see how gold will regain its former glory.

One commentator suggested recently that gold has been shown to be less an investment and more a religion! He says gold supporters typically share a belief system - they believe the outlook is negative and owning gold is the only way to survive a financial or economic crisis.

While the evidence from historic crises and corrections is inconsistent - sometimes gold has performed well, other times it hasn't - gold fans nevertheless continue to believe it will prevail. In many instances, they believe it so fervently they become almost evangelical in promoting its virtues. To this extent at least, gold can be likened to religion.

Regardless, gold has a substantial fan club, is traded regularly and enjoys price rallies which can last a long time and are seemingly unstoppable. Until they stop".