Water Heater Unit

[chingy_]

im planning to buy a water heater unit for my shower, i have no knowledge on this thing at all, any recommendation of any brand name and the pro and con of it.

i live in a condo, water pressure are decent not to strong and not to less, i like the brand that give good decent water pressure and hot enought to take atleast 15-20minute shower

[penzman]

Hi Chingy!

We installed a water heater a few months ago. The shower's water pressure just wasn t there afterwards. Rinsing off shampoo and soap took forever...

The heater usually regulates and decreases the amount of water flowing through as it needs time to heat up the water.

Later on, I installed a water pump. The shower now has decent water pressure, the water is warm but not as much as before since the water flow through the heater has increased. If you do not have a water pump, you can expect the shower head's water pressure to drop by 50%. My wife uses the heater mostly. When I shower, I normally take the shower head off the heater and connect it directly to the water tap.

Also, be very careful that a safety breaker/switch is properly installed to prevent electrocution. It must be outside the washroom, you just flick the switch on your way to the shower, we switch it off after showering. On one occasion, I've seen this switch installed right next to the water heater... The ultimate test would be to have the electrician to take a shower and test out his electrical installation.

You can shower as long as you want with the water heater on. I don't know if hot water tanks are available here in Thailand but those eventually run out of hot water after 15-20 minutes... stay with the wall mounted heater.

Good luck!

Squeaky clean Penzman

[theviking]

We just had this thing installed.

The switch is installed right above, and to the left of the heater...

The water pressure actually increased after we installed it.

We baught a cheaper brand, around 3500baht at lotus.

A local electrcian installed it, and its just great to have these days, as water is cold as #### at evening and mornings.

Edited January 1, 2005 by theviking

[penzman]

We just had this thing installed.

The switch is installed right above, and to the left of the heater...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You may want to relocate that switch... A faulty switch would leave you crisp rather than clean...

Invite the electrician over.

Make sure he has no shoes/flippers on.

Give him the shower head.

Turn the water and switch on.

Ask him to spray water directly onto the switch...

He will probably refuse...

[theviking]

I take my chanse Penz....

Just me and the wifey in there anyway...

[penzman]

Remember that you only get ONE chance...

[theviking]

Remember that you only get ONE chance...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How come the switch have to be outside?

The electricity still breaks when the box is turned off, right?

And i usually not go around cutting cables with my knife....

Edited January 1, 2005 by theviking

[penzman]

The thing is, electricity goes through the wires on the wall, into the switch box. Flicking the switch to OFF only interrupts the current going to the heater, there is still current coming from the house's electrical pannel into the switch.

A cut you can t see on a wire(when installled) or a faulty switch could kill you.

I recently went into the attic and moved wires around so I could get up there. One of the plastic covered wires touched the roof 's metal frame and was treated to a nice fireworks show. I then turned off the electricity and found a very small cut in the wire where the sparks had come from.

We have a ceramic water tub in the washroom. The electrician installed an electric socket 30 cm above it! I removed the sockets.

After our water heater was installed, the electrician left. We found out later it wasn't working at all. Kind of shows you the kind of Mai Bpen Lai attitude towards electricity here...

I ve seen too many improvised "electricians" here. Most would do a great job if it was for Texas convicts on death row...

[theviking]

Yeah. I know what you are talking about.

Might i should reconsider, and move it.

Not see i am old enough to go into sleep yet....

[chingy_]

A local electrcian installed it, and its just great to have these days, as water is cold as #### at evening and mornings.

it is cold as helll, i never thought i would need a water heater, for the last couple of year i didn't mind the cold water, it feel good, but this year its cold as helll, i ask the maid to boil hot water for me to take my bath.

ok let me get this straight, install the on and off button outside the washroom, because (again please).

and we havent talk about what model and brand to get, i seen some with 3.3kw and 3.5kw what is that all about.

[theviking]

I baught an "Astina" on lotus, and is quite happy with my purchase.

The price was 3000something.

What the difference is between 3.3 and 3.5 Kw beats me..

But i know for sure the electric bill will be a bit higher with 3.5Kw...

[lopburi3]

In Bangkok 3.5kw unit should be fine - only on the coldest days do I need to run at full power and you can always decrease flow if not hot enough. National is good and they have a number of models - the larger the inside heater the better and stores will take cover off for you to look.

All water heaters must be attached to a ground. Do not let them fail to do that even if they have to run a separate wire. Although they all have a GFI some may not trip if not tested on a regular basis (mechanical problem on some models). There is no need for a switch if you run from main breaker panel. The unit itself will have on/off control and they also react to flow and turn off if not water pressure. Obviously you do not want a non waterproof switch in the shower as others have said.

3.3 or 3.5 is the max heating current. Not much real difference and you almost never use at full power anyhow so it is not relevant as to operating expense.

[fox]

Ref: Water Heater Unit.

For your own safety, make sure you have ' two ' important safety features in your home.

1. The heater unit must have a built in ELCB Circuit Breaker.

2. The most important. A second ELCB Circuit Breaker outside the bathroom switch.

Just a few months ago, in Kuala Lumpur, a husband and wife were electrocuted to death

when the built in ELCB ( faulty ) failed to trip. It was reported in the papers.

A second ELCB Circuit Breaker ( which they did not installed ) ........ could have saved them.

The cost of the second ELCB Circuit Breaker ( plus fixing ) is only about RM 60 to RM 80.

Play safe and have a nice day.

[ProThaiExpat]

Most "supre-stores" have so many models available, it is a very difficult thing to choose.

I would go with a model that has well know warranty and repair facilities such as National or Panasonic. Also, make sure you get one that has variable heat control, ie. a switch that allows you to make the water hotter or cooler by turning a switch. Stay away from "automatic" models, I have Siemens and they are a headache.

Make sure the unit is GROUNDED. A circuit breaker may not activate when you have divergent current travelling through the water. My Siemens was not grounded, and three years after installation, a major shock was experienced when a water leak developed in the shower head attachment to the wall, and the water heater is not even in the bathroom. Just had it grounded, as are all my appliances.

[chingy_]

never knew having a water heater can be a headache and scary, i'll make sure that the electrician do the job right, i'll be stand right beside him when he install my unit, i'll ask him to instal a second Circuit Breaker, can i have the second Circuit Breaker locate inside the washroom but not near the shower?

i think i will go with the Panasonic 3.5kw, electric bill is not a concern, just want a good decent water pressure and hot enought to have a decent shower

[RDN]

never knew having a water heater can be a headache and scary, i'll make sure that the electrician do the job right, i'll be stand right beside him when he install my unit, i'll ask him to instal a second Circuit Breaker,  can i have the second Circuit Breaker  locate inside the washroom but not near the shower?

i think i will go with the Panasonic 3.5kw, electric bill is not a concern, just want a good decent water pressure and hot enought to have a decent shower

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chingy, have a look here : http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...ndpost&p=113416

or look at these search results for "water heater": http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?ac...te=water+heater

I bought a Sharp Water Heater model number WH535D from Robinsons. It's a little pricey - 5,000+ baht but you can adjust the output temperature one degree C at a time. I installed mine myself - just had to drill a couple of holes in the tiled wall because the old water heater back plate had holes in different positions. But that's not too hard to do. The wiring and plumbing was straightforward - the pipes had the same size threads as the original heater.

The heater is brilliant. You can turn it up to 48 C if you want to die, or turn it down, one degree at a time to 32 C.

I actually have the hot water outlet piped down to a mixer tap at the bath. Then this hot water gets mixed with cold water and is sent up to the shower head. So I get a lot of water coming out of the shower. It was designed so that the hot water coming out of the heater should go staright to the shower head, but as my original set-up used the mixer taps, I kept that arrangement.

You should read some of the topics on water heaters - they're quite funny. This one is good:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=10711&st=0

The Sharp heater has an "ELB" and a "test" button. I recommend it 100%.

[Ajarn]

think i will go with the Panasonic 3.5kw, electric bill is not a concern, just want a good decent water pressure and hot enought to have a decent shower

If you mean like the pressure in western showers, you'll likely never get anything near that kind of pressure/flow out of an 'on-demand' water heater... Just look at the plumbing for the hot side- much smaller tubing, meaning much less flow. The only way to get western pressure for hot water here is to install a 30-gal+ standing water heater with the larger piping...

Since they're all 'on demand', you won't have a problem with hot water stopping unless your water pressure drops to the point where the heating coil shuts itself off.. I have a 1200 liter jacuzzi in my house, and a 5,000 baht National brand does just fine. The hot side is always at max, with temperature controlled by adjusting the cold water flow, which has a much higher flow rate that the hot side. If you want higher flow, you'll probably have to lose some degrees to accomplish that...

When buying, keep service in mind if you're not an electrician. Are you going to install it yourself? If there's a problem, are you willing to take it in to the service center yourself? I'm not, so I only buy such stuff from a store that has good home service for setup and for fixing problems... In Chiang Mai, I highly recommend Siam TV & Appliance store.

Edited January 1, 2005 by Ajarn

[penzman]

I'm no expert with electricity but I think that if one showers long enough with hot water and mist accumulates on the bathroom walls and heater's ELCB Circuit Breaker switch as it does on the mirror,a faulty system could zap you to a crisp. Same thing with a mishap whilst playing around the shower head, an unexpected leak from a broken part. I think that's the reason most ELCB Circuit Breakers are installed just outside the bathroom.

The farther apart you keep electricity and water from each other, the better.

[RDN]

...mist accumulates on the bathroom walls and heater's ELCB Circuit Breaker switch...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't think I've ever seen condensation in Phuket - too warm!

[Abandon]

I installed one of these on demand water heaters, but it blew its guts 'cos the pressure is way too low on the top floor. So I bought a 15 gallon plastic tank/bucket, and an industrial water pump (400 baht) with a 1 inch diameter pipe. Reduced the pipe size, and connected.

Bang! (again)

So I got another machine, and...

Bang! (again)

Then I bought for 400 baht an element for dipping into cauldrons for cooking. Rigged a couple of lights to show when the element is on. Rigged a simple pull switch so that the on off to the pump is operated by by a string that leads up to the ceiling and out through the wall which prevents wet hands shorting the switch. A little water pump for fish tanks was necessary inside the tank to circulate the water while heating. Whole system is grounded.

But...

then the water in the tank was used up in 1 minute flat. So I split the water supply so half the water from the pump goes back into the water tank. And voila.... a Hot Power Shower that runs for 3 minutes. Just have to heat the water for 30 minuted first. Only disadvantage is that I must never leave the heater on for more than 30 minutes or it will boil over. For an extra 1000 baht you can buy a water pump from Klong Thom that auto detects when you open the tap and starts pumping.

Alternatively you can buy an inline pump and fix it between your shower and the water tank if it is above you (mine is waist height). Again it auto detects and pumps when you open the water tap, and that will give you the pressure you crave. I installed the electrics myself. All this rubbish about using an expert proffesional electrician.... I have seen these "experts" work on various things before. A Prince Phillip gaff springs to mind.

I would draw you a diagram if I could figure how to insert images (it only gives options for a url link to an image)

[Jeff1]

I installed one of these on demand water heaters, but it blew its guts 'cos the pressure is way too low on the top floor. So I bought a 15 gallon plastic tank/bucket, and an industrial water pump (400 baht) with a 1 inch diameter pipe. Reduced the pipe size, and connected.

Bang! (again)

So I got another machine, and...

Bang! (again)

Then I bought for 400 baht an element for dipping into cauldrons for cooking. Rigged a couple of lights to show when the element is on.  Rigged a simple pull switch so that the on off to the pump is operated by by a string that leads up to the ceiling and out through the wall which prevents wet hands shorting the switch. A little water pump for fish tanks was necessary inside the tank to circulate the water while heating. Whole system is grounded.

But...

then the water in the tank was used up in 1 minute flat. So I split the water supply so half the water from the pump goes back into the water tank. And voila.... a Hot Power Shower that runs for 3 minutes. Just have to heat the water for 30 minuted first. Only disadvantage is that I must never leave the heater on for more than 30 minutes or it will boil over. For an extra 1000 baht you can buy a water pump from Klong Thom that auto detects when you open the tap and starts pumping.

Alternatively you can buy an inline pump and fix it between your shower and the water tank if it is above you (mine is waist height). Again it auto detects and pumps when you open the water tap, and that will give you the pressure you crave. I installed the electrics myself. All this rubbish about using an expert proffesional electrician.... I have seen these "experts" work on various things before. A Prince Phillip gaff springs to mind.

I would draw you a diagram if I could figure how to insert images (it only gives options for a url link to an image)

Are you making moonshine or taking a shower ?

[lopburi3]

never knew having a water heater can be a headache and scary, i'll make sure that the electrician do the job right, i'll be stand right beside him when he install my unit, i'll ask him to instal a second Circuit Breaker,  can i have the second Circuit Breaker  locate inside the washroom but not near the shower?

i think i will go with the Panasonic 3.5kw, electric bill is not a concern, just want a good decent water pressure and hot enought to have a decent shower

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You may already have one - check your main circuit entry point for a Safe-T-Cut or similar GFI/ELCB at the main breaker. Many places in Thailand have been using these for whole house protection for decades (mine was installed in 1977). If not why not do so? That way your whole house is protected. That wall lamp you turn on in bare feet on a tile floor could be that last thing you ever do without one. For a few thousand baht you can eliminate the biggest danger of electric death. Worth it in my book.

[TRIPxCORE]

I bought one of these things and it has never fully worked properly. I bought it at the Home Pro store by Ploen Chit BTS. They sold me the circuit breaker thing with it and i had no idea how to install it or the heater. So we had the building mechanic come and install the heater. He got it in ok but never did the circuit breaker saying we didn't need it. The unit works ok but the problem is this. There are 2 lights on it. One for power and one for overheat. As soon as you turn on the hot water, it works for about 1-2 minutes and then the power switch flicks off and the overheat light pops on. No more hot water after that. I am not Superman and cannot finish showering in 1 minute. Any ideas, help?

[Ajarn]

I installed one of these on demand water heaters, but it blew its guts 'cos the pressure is way too low on the top floor. So I bought a 15 gallon plastic tank/bucket, and an industrial water pump (400 baht) with a 1 inch diameter pipe. Reduced the pipe size, and connected.

Bang! (again)

So I got another machine, and...

Bang! (again)

Then I bought for 400 baht an element for dipping into cauldrons for cooking. Rigged a couple of lights to show when the element is on.  Rigged a simple pull switch so that the on off to the pump is operated by by a string that leads up to the ceiling and out through the wall which prevents wet hands shorting the switch. A little water pump for fish tanks was necessary inside the tank to circulate the water while heating. Whole system is grounded.

But...

then the water in the tank was used up in 1 minute flat. So I split the water supply so half the water from the pump goes back into the water tank. And voila.... a Hot Power Shower that runs for 3 minutes. Just have to heat the water for 30 minuted first. Only disadvantage is that I must never leave the heater on for more than 30 minutes or it will boil over. For an extra 1000 baht you can buy a water pump from Klong Thom that auto detects when you open the tap and starts pumping.

Alternatively you can buy an inline pump and fix it between your shower and the water tank if it is above you (mine is waist height). Again it auto detects and pumps when you open the water tap, and that will give you the pressure you crave. I installed the electrics myself. All this rubbish about using an expert proffesional electrician.... I have seen these "experts" work on various things before. A Prince Phillip gaff springs to mind.

I would draw you a diagram if I could figure how to insert images (it only gives options for a url link to an image)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A fan of Rube Goldberg, by chance? Edited January 2, 2005 by Ajarn

[lopburi3]

I bought one of these things and it has never fully worked properly.  I bought it at the Home Pro store by Ploen Chit BTS.  They sold me the circuit breaker thing with it and i had no idea how to install it or the heater.  So we had the building mechanic come and install the heater.  He got it in ok but never did the circuit breaker saying we didn't need it.  The unit works ok but the problem is this.  There are 2 lights on it.  One for power and one for overheat.  As soon as you turn on the hot water, it works for about 1-2 minutes and then the power switch flicks off and the overheat light pops on.  No more hot water after that.  I am not Superman and cannot finish showering in 1 minute.  Any ideas, help?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If the unit is not defective you probably have the water temp set too high and the flow is not enough to keep the water temp below scalding so it shuts off. Is there not a control of some kind on it to adjust temperature? I have four or five different brands and they all have a temperature control.

Also you may have a flow control at the filter on the inlet pipe that can be adjusted.

Edited January 2, 2005 by lopburi3

[penzman]

I bought one of these things and it has never fully worked properly.  I bought it at the Home Pro store by Ploen Chit BTS.  They sold me the circuit breaker thing with it and i had no idea how to install it or the heater.  So we had the building mechanic come and install the heater.  He got it in ok but never did the circuit breaker saying we didn't need it.  The unit works ok but the problem is this.  There are 2 lights on it.  One for power and one for overheat.  As soon as you turn on the hot water, it works for about 1-2 minutes and then the power switch flicks off and the overheat light pops on.  No more hot water after that.  I am not Superman and cannot finish showering in 1 minute.  Any ideas, help?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You may not have sufficient pressure/flow coming from from the tap and the unit overheats. The building mechanic could have also done something wrong with the wiring.

[fox]

Ref: Water Heater - Second Reply.

Hi chingy,

The second ELCB Circuit Breaker must be outside the bathroom.

That is say, away from any water contact.

The ideal location is just next to your " outside " bathroom wall/entrance.

Very important ( Your life depends on it ) :

Make sure it has a " three pin " connection plug.

The main reason is that it has to be grounded to the " Earth " connection

( Green/Yellow ) colour at the top pin. Some colour is just green.

In Malaysia it is Green/Yellow colour wire for Earth. (Compulsory by law).

Without the Earth connection........ the ELCB Circuit Breaker will not trip..........

and you will be history.

Buy a ' branded ' model. A Japanese branded model should be a good choice.

Sawatdi krap.

[lopburi3]

Make sure it has a " three pin " connection plug.

The main reason is that it has to be grounded to the " Earth " connection

( Green/Yellow ) colour at the top pin.  Some colour is just green.

In Malaysia it is Green/Yellow colour wire for Earth. (Compulsory by law).

Without the Earth connection........ the ELCB Circuit Breaker will not trip..........

and you will be history.

Buy a ' branded ' model.  A Japanese branded model should be a good choice.

Sawatdi krap.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is completely false. A GFI or ELCB will operate properly with no ground wire. That is why they are so important here in Thailand where so many homes do not have a three wire system.

[Crazy Dave]

there are 2 main types of breakers, square "D" and elcb.

elcb is a must for bathrooms, this does not need an earth wire and has no connection for an earth wire, it is also 5 times the price of a square "D" breaker.

you can hardwire your shower heater earth but generally its best to just use the elcb, the more expensive water heaters come with an elcb inside, but it is also a good idea to have an extra ordinary breaker outside the bathroom....

[Ajarn]

Make sure it has a " three pin " connection plug.

The main reason is that it has to be grounded to the " Earth " connection

( Green/Yellow ) colour at the top pin.  Some colour is just green.

In Malaysia it is Green/Yellow colour wire for Earth. (Compulsory by law).

Without the Earth connection........ the ELCB Circuit Breaker will not trip..........

and you will be history.

Buy a ' branded ' model.  A Japanese branded model should be a good choice.

Sawatdi krap.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is completely false. A GFI or ELCB will operate properly with no ground wire. That is why they are so important here in Thailand where so many homes do not have a three wire system.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

lopburi3, these things are designed to sense a short and cut the power before it can hurt you.. Do I have that right? Are there varying qualities of these circuit breakers? Do some react slower than others? Anything to watch for when buying?