Police Shame Thailand

[mrukman]

It seem's to me being just a farang that the thai posters in here are trying to make Excuse after Excuse for there so called police force.

Time to face facts friends. They are not a force they are just a little bit better then the tourist police. We never here any real evidence gained at crime's usually if a farrang FALLS from a building it is always suicide. So why are the majority of them in underwear. The thai police force are only capable of controling traffic when its busy or, there are a lot of farangs out and about on the Rat u Thit in patong mmmm a good place to make a bit of cash on the side. Can you honestly come in here and tell us that you have full faith in your force and feel a little bit of pleasure knowing the guy who burgled your house will be caught and brought to justice.

[venturalaw]

when I read inside this forum I just dont understand why they still live and want to stay in Thailand when it is so bad for someone. I have no problem with the Police and the system Im a guest in this country and I have to behave as a guest, if not I have to go home to my own country. And if I want to find corruption I just can go to europe, america and all of the other countries and find it.

I use to have the same naiveté as demonstrated in your post regarding having to 'find' police corruption in Thailand. That came to an abrupt halt after a Thai man hit my car and followed my Thai wife, child and I until I drove to a place where I knew the people, I had never personally experience police corruption and I certainly was not looking for it. The police who arrived on the scene to 'investigate' agreed that that the fault was with the Thai man who now was insisting that I be put in jail (essentially for being a farang). I felt confident that this would all blow over and that the insurance would pay for the minor damage to both vehicles. At the suggestion of my Thai wife, I offered to pay cash on the spot to just end this. The man refused saying that I belonged in jail. When we reached the police station the senior officer found in favor of the Thai man (following their approximately 1/2 hour private meeting) and if I did not want my car impounded and to potentially see the inside of a Thai jail, I would pay several thousand baht. Of coarse I paid, and queried why am I involved in organizations that promote volunteer work in Thailand? A friend of mine referred to this as "a right of passage." I still am going to live here - I love the culture, and the people, but as for corruption, one does not have to 'find' it. Sometimes it finds you.

Edited April 6, 2009 by venturalaw

[scorecard]

.... "Does anyone recall the reported 400 billion or so baht left in the will of an army general (7 to 10 years ago). His salary was approx. 40k per month - but he was an avid saver."

Yes I do recall this man. General S, he was the leader / co-leader of the coup which ousted PM Chaitchai Choonaven.

More interestingly is that General S is the man who arranged for Mr T. to get a licence to start up and run a telephone monopoly. No bidding for licences was conducted, in fact nobody even knew that such a licence was possible. do I need to say more.

And now our Mr. T wants us to believe he's the champion of the anti-coup movement.

[scorecard]

"when I read inside this forum I just dont understand why they still live and want to stay in Thailand when it is so bad for someone. I have no problem with the Police and the system Im a guest in this country and I have to behave as a guest, if not I have to go home to my own country. And if I want to find corruption I just can go to europe, america and all of the other countries and find it.

I use to have the same naiveté as demonstrated in your post regarding having to 'find' police corruption in Thailand. That came to an abrupt halt after a Thai man hit my car and followed my Thai wife, child and I until I drove to a place where I knew the people, I had never personally experience police corruption and I certainly was not looking for it. The police who arrived on the scene to 'investigate' agreed that that the fault was with the Thai man who now was insisting that I be put in jail (essentially for being a farang). I felt confident that this would all blow over and that the insurance would pay for the minor damage to both vehicles. At the suggestion of my Thai wife, I offered to pay cash on the spot to just end this. The man refused saying that I belonged in jail. When we reached the police station the senior officer found in favor of the Thai man (following their approximately 1/2 hour private meeting) and if I did not want my car impounded and to potentially see the inside of a Thai jail, I would pay several thousand baht. Of coarse I paid, and queried why am I involved in organizations that promote volunteer work in Thailand? A friend of mine referred to this as "a right of passage." I still am going to live here - I love the culture, and the people, but as for corruption, one does not have to 'find' it. Sometimes it finds you.

I had something perhaps similar 15 years ago. A car came shooting out of a narrow lane and hit me. I got up and went to the window of the car and told the lady driver she should slow down. She asked me to wait, which I did for about 10 minutes when the police arrived, put me in handcuffs and took me to the local police station (in Bkk).

The lady driver also arrived at the police station and told the station chief she would have the police station painted and air-conditioners installed. The station chief then odered that I should donate 10,000Baht to the station welfare fund.

My Thai work colleagues had by this time arrived including a lawyer, who indicated that we should pay up promptly and get out of the station as quickly as possible.

Why? He recognized the woman as a well known rich, powerful, unpleasant Thai hi-society lady, who had been publically jilted a couple of years earlier by her farang husband. And it was well known that she had 'punished' several other farang men for the actions of her ex-husband.

[fred2007]

I guess you can call me an old bastard with Alzheimers desease but as far as I know the police or armee

is controlled by the government in a democracy. Why blame the police or armee? The government should make the laws and be in controll all the time

[valentinob29]

Sorry buy MONEY is not as important as murder and torture! How can you compare people stealing money to a large powerful organised crime syndicate that can murder, torture and wrongfully imprison with impunity. Id rather have my money stolen then lose an arm or my life thanks!

As to the comments leaning towards sympathy towards the police because their budget is low and they have to "compete" with the military.... for the love of god who cares? They dont need to compete with another corrupt organisation that moves in on their "turf" and takes some of their easily earned illegal money. They NEED to uphold the law and help Thai citizens instead of terrorise them and take from them! Low beudget does not excuse theft and extortion and crime from the very people that are supposed to protect the country from those very things.

Incredible....

increable and scary

one could rip so many holes in this type of basic thinking and silly examples it beggars belief and i do not have the time

police regardless of money have a choice-

many, very, very many, not all, chose to go for the money

this is their choice, it has NOTHING to do with anything else

in thialand one is taught not to think so maybe it comes easily

that is why every western looks upon thai police as a joke- they cannot even do their autopsy right

nor surveillance( the west even gave up trying to teach them- after one week of " have to call the wife, go out for smoke they packed it in)

they have to leave picking up the really bad boys to the yanks and the brits, then some handbag warrior steps up and claims the glory and adds a few 000's to his bank account.

Lets wake up

[valentinob29]

It seem's to me being just a farang that the thai posters in here are trying to make Excuse after Excuse for there so called police force.

Time to face facts friends. They are not a force they are just a little bit better then the tourist police. We never here any real evidence gained at crime's usually if a farrang FALLS from a building it is always suicide. So why are the majority of them in underwear. The thai police force are only capable of controling traffic when its busy or, there are a lot of farangs out and about on the Rat u Thit in patong mmmm a good place to make a bit of cash on the side. Can you honestly come in here and tell us that you have full faith in your force and feel a little bit of pleasure knowing the guy who burgled your house will be caught and brought to justice.

I am part thai so maybe I will not have the "you are this, you are that" exuse of those who have no grounds to stand on so play he race card

And you are 1000% correct.

There are some good ones- the majorty are pathetic and a national disgrace.

The " but this is thailand.." whine is just so dumb, low,silly

in my country .. but this is thailand,,,, whne, whine whine...

oh go back to the back benchers please

what we are taling about is corrupt entitiy that is made far worse because it is by those who are given the scared task of protecting the weak

only when people here stop deluding themselves and wake up to the simple fact that pride is based on truth can we progress

[valentinob29]

The apologists would do well to read again what she has written.

The problem here is that the police would not be able to even pay for the most basic necessities, such as crime investigations, if they would not supplement the completely insufficient budget from profits of illegal businesses. Such a system is a breeding ground for corruption and crime.

Political interference and constant problems over jurisdiction with the far more powerful (and at least equally corrupt) military do their part as well.

Yes, there are a lot of completely dirty police officers, but there also many good and honest officers trying to do the best they can. You can't just stereotype every officer as a criminal.

Again - this has to be seen in context with the whole society. Otherwise this just ends up another unintelligent barfly rant.

Look at the army, please, in comparison. Nobody controls the army except the army. The army has much larger funds to syphon off from. The army owns directly two TV stations, and several radio stations. They have massive budgets of arms procurement to syphon off from. The after the 2006 coup revamped ISOC gives them huge powers over all security matters (the PM is only the nominal head, while military runs the day to day procedures).

The army has been accused of systematic torture in the South by several international watchdogs, the Rohinya story is still fresh.

Most here have very little idea about police corruption and budgets. People read one snippet or the other in the paper, and believe they know what it is about. You are mistaken. What you should know you rarely read, unfortunately.

What are the most important crimes police benefits from? It's not drugs and murder, as you imply. The basic moneys come from local protection of motorcycle taxi stands, casinos, underground lottery, and similar. A police station would not function without that. WHy did the army in 2006 (and still ongoing) got major improvements, while police got nothing. It's easy to blame police for everything, but when no government sees the necessity to grant police budgets they can actually work with, police reform will stay empty talk.

Murder and drugs is very much an army business as well. Best gunmen and bodyguards - you hire them from the army. Control of cross border drug trade - army.

Thailand has a policeforce it deserves, nothing more, nothing less - a corrupt police that suits a corrupt system.

very true- good postings-there are many good ones. Struggling to fullfill their dutys,

lets help them

[venturalaw]

The apologists would do well to read again what she has written.

The problem here is that the police would not be able to even pay for the most basic necessities, such as crime investigations, if they would not supplement the completely insufficient budget from profits of illegal businesses. Such a system is a breeding ground for corruption and crime.

Political interference and constant problems over jurisdiction with the far more powerful (and at least equally corrupt) military do their part as well.

Yes, there are a lot of completely dirty police officers, but there also many good and honest officers trying to do the best they can. You can't just stereotype every officer as a criminal.

Again - this has to be seen in context with the whole society. Otherwise this just ends up another unintelligent barfly rant.

Look at the army, please, in comparison. Nobody controls the army except the army. The army has much larger funds to syphon off from. The army owns directly two TV stations, and several radio stations. They have massive budgets of arms procurement to syphon off from. The after the 2006 coup revamped ISOC gives them huge powers over all security matters (the PM is only the nominal head, while military runs the day to day procedures).

The army has been accused of systematic torture in the South by several international watchdogs, the Rohinya story is still fresh.

Most here have very little idea about police corruption and budgets. People read one snippet or the other in the paper, and believe they know what it is about. You are mistaken. What you should know you rarely read, unfortunately.

What are the most important crimes police benefits from? It's not drugs and murder, as you imply. The basic moneys come from local protection of motorcycle taxi stands, casinos, underground lottery, and similar. A police station would not function without that. WHy did the army in 2006 (and still ongoing) got major improvements, while police got nothing. It's easy to blame police for everything, but when no government sees the necessity to grant police budgets they can actually work with, police reform will stay empty talk.

Murder and drugs is very much an army business as well. Best gunmen and bodyguards - you hire them from the army. Control of cross border drug trade - army.

Thailand has a policeforce it deserves, nothing more, nothing less - a corrupt police that suits a corrupt system.

very true- good postings-there are many good ones. Struggling to fullfill their dutys,

lets help them

As I stated, and perhaps not strongly enough, the police officers who arrived on the scene following the 'accident' were open minded (appeared to be) and took my side (the evidence was obvious who was at fault). They were polite and congenial. That's why I felt all of this would blow over - but then I came across the senior officer who had been alone with the Thai man who hit my car. It all changed from that point forward and, like the other poster who had to pony up 10,000 baht to purchase his liberty, I too paid a ransom so that I could drive my Thai wife and child home in my car rather than having it impounded and my being incarcerated. Do I hold all Thai police in contempt? - absolutely not. But, as I said, my previous determination to voluntarily contribute to this country has been significantly weakened.

[venturalaw]

To all you guys how have been here 20+ years:

How was the police corruption in the 1980's and earlier?

Have you seen any changes (for better or worse) in the last couple of years?

Comparing another poster's episode to mine, which occurred much more recently than his, it would appear that conditions have improved - the severity of the fine along with the blatancy of it. However, this could be due to something entirely unrelated to a mere passage of time, ie - his experience was in BKK and involved a 'celebrity' of sorts. Mine was not and did not. So, who knows?

[BigSnake]

No I foresee no changes in the way the police do business in the near future, they need to start from the bottom to build a soild police force, because it is so shakey at the top, as so often once the top police officer in the kingdom leave the job someone steps up a call for an investigation on him for one reason or another.

[venturalaw]

No I foresee no changes in the way the police do business in the near future, they need to start from the bottom to build a soild police force, because it is so shakey at the top, as so often once the top police officer in the kingdom leave the job someone steps up a call for an investigation on him for one reason or another.

Good point. That always seems to occur.

[loong]

You don't think murder/torture were involved with the banks stealing all that money? It's nice to compartmentalize things, but, a wise man, once said, murder is the logical consequence of business.

Quick edit to add that many people are now homeless, a few have killed themselves, and a few others will probably get killed.

This was about the terrible tragedy at the nightclub. I'm not sure this was murder/torture. More like a very tragic event, and, yes, I still think the parties involved with the bank scandal are more "important." Whatever that means.

Banks stealing all what money? What are you talking about?

[ExoticMatter]

I thought Taksin would have been untouchable but I naively mistook him for higher forces.

[slapout]

What if we turned the title around a bit... Thailand shames itself via the police activity...

[Alwaysright]

Well, as a couple of recent threads have told us, even the UN considers the Thai Police to be organised criminals, so this story comes as absolutely no surprise to me.

Anyone who defends the Thai Police is truly deluded.

I recently met up with a couple of farangs who were arrested in Pattaya and spent a few days in a police cell. They told me that while they were treated quite well, the Thai prisoners in the adjacent cell were constantly screaming and yelling out as they were being beaten by the police to extract confessions.

I have no doubt that it is true.

I am one of those truly deluded ones.

The problems of Thai police is not entirely the fault of the police, but has to be seen in context.

It is easy to accuse police of corruption, because we see it every day. But, what we do not see is that the police budgets are a joke. To be able to perform investigations, officers often do have to pay from their own pocket petrol and/or hotels. They have to buy their own computers, or surveillance equipment. If they want internet, they have to pay themselves for the connections. They have to buy their own weapons and uniform.

Police stations get budgets for basics like electricity and such. The remainder the stations have to organize themselves in order to be able to operate.

The article mentioned the competition with army. Army constantly interferes in police turf, and forces the police to compete. What we do not see is that army is at least equally corrupt, but has, especially since the military coup, much larger budgets to play with. Police is now, since the Democrat takeover, under intense political pressure after having been almost dismantled by the co-conspirators of that power grab.

Anybody is allowed now to blame the police for anything, almost a free for all. The police though is only a symptom of a completely dysfunctional system, a presently politically convenient scapegoat that allows far more harmful corruption of the system to pass almost unnoticed.

The justice ministry? Have you read some of the recent interviews and statements of the justice minister? Some of what that man plans has very little to do with justice under an aspiring democratic system, and is more at home in a dictatorship.

The bottom line is they don't pay the police enough.In most countries you pay the police with taxes,so you pay one way or another but you do pay.

[neverdie]

The apologists would do well to read again what she has written.

The problem here is that the police would not be able to even pay for the most basic necessities, such as crime investigations, if they would not supplement the completely insufficient budget from profits of illegal businesses. Such a system is a breeding ground for corruption and crime.

Political interference and constant problems over jurisdiction with the far more powerful (and at least equally corrupt) military do their part as well.

Yes, there are a lot of completely dirty police officers, but there also many good and honest officers trying to do the best they can. You can't just stereotype every officer as a criminal.

Again - this has to be seen in context with the whole society. Otherwise this just ends up another unintelligent barfly rant.

Look at the army, please, in comparison. Nobody controls the army except the army. The army has much larger funds to syphon off from. The army owns directly two TV stations, and several radio stations. They have massive budgets of arms procurement to syphon off from. The after the 2006 coup revamped ISOC gives them huge powers over all security matters (the PM is only the nominal head, while military runs the day to day procedures).

The army has been accused of systematic torture in the South by several international watchdogs, the Rohinya story is still fresh.

Most here have very little idea about police corruption and budgets. People read one snippet or the other in the paper, and believe they know what it is about. You are mistaken. What you should know you rarely read, unfortunately.

What are the most important crimes police benefits from? It's not drugs and murder, as you imply. The basic moneys come from local protection of motorcycle taxi stands, casinos, underground lottery, and similar. A police station would not function without that. WHy did the army in 2006 (and still ongoing) got major improvements, while police got nothing. It's easy to blame police for everything, but when no government sees the necessity to grant police budgets they can actually work with, police reform will stay empty talk.

Murder and drugs is very much an army business as well. Best gunmen and bodyguards - you hire them from the army. Control of cross border drug trade - army.

Thailand has a policeforce it deserves, nothing more, nothing less - a corrupt police that suits a corrupt system.

very true- good postings-there are many good ones. Struggling to fullfill their dutys,

lets help them

Ohhh Valentinob.....you're just dirty because you & your friends got banged up at that gangbang in that hotel room in Bkk. Sour grapes!