'Ruling out the foreigner'

[Dasekel]

Now to MrVietnam

Same as before, what is your problem with others? Not everybody with a different opinion is lazy, don't want to work, is a low budget dreamer, etc.

Would help a lot to keep these kind of abusive commentary out of the discussion. Agreeable?

I try to do the same.

Now to the topics:

""Viet Nam will be happy in coming years to receive those who like to live and work in Southeast Asia but are no longer wellcome in Thailand.""

Oh you better not start wishful thinking on that one. Vietnam is definitely not interested in a bunch of people trying to live as some falangs are in Thailand.

If someone has something to offer, definitely yes. A backpacker, low budget dreamer, definitely no.

You are living in Viet Nam? The Vietnamese are hooked on money and they will develop rapidly. They still are behind Thailand, but if they smell money they move fast and ever faster. I am sure they will be a serious competition to Thailand very soon. And for the beginning they will be happy to receive those foreigners who will have to leave Thailand. Of course only in case that they will be able to either work for a foreign company or do some business in Viet Nam. Otherwise they cannot live in Viet Nam unless married to a Vietnamese.

By the way, what makes you think that all those people, who may run into trouble with the new rules, are backpackers and low budget dreamers?

Why do you think that those living on a budget below 40k Baht per month with their Thai family are lazy, not working hard, etc., etc.?

They may even have a combined income of more than 40K, but including that of the Thai family members.

Ever considered that some Thai women are happily married with foreigners, even if their monthly income is below 40K?

What is your advice to them for the future? Get your husband a decent job or leave with him to his country?

[Will Lawes]

sorrry if i've missed a post here, theres too many to go through...but how will this effect english teachers, or teachers in general? Just those making 30-40k/month? Living alone?

From what the man says, it doesn't effect us? Or <deleted>?

[molarman]

one short unsubstantiated article in the "chiang mai post" (circulation 24) seems to have caused mass panic,slangings off,class warfare,cynical comments,sarcasm,jealousy and hate.what seem to be cries for help and sympathy have been met with "serves you right" and "about time".there are the wailings and gnashing of teeth from those who bemoan the lack of fairness and human rights of it all, it all makes for a jolly good read,and as is normal for western thinking a lot of the replies are of an emotional nature.

it's a good job we are not all sat in the same room, face to face.blood would have certainly been shed.

if these new rules become law next year then emotionally charged reasoning and sympathy will not solve any problems or help in any way ,the thais dont do sympathy any more than they do fairness(by western standards).if any of us want sympathy then perhaps we should return to our homes in the west and call the help lines and chat shows that  offer shoulders to cry on, because we wont find them here.

this is thailand, and the name of the game is adapt or become extinct,fairness does not come into it.

we have a year,if we dont fail to prepare then we prepare to fail.subtract the emotion from the thinking and deal with the facts.

may the good lord have mercy on our souls!!

[Dasekel]

this is thailand, and the name of the game is adapt or become extinct,fairness does not come into it.

we have a year,if we dont fail to prepare then we prepare to fail.subtract the emotion from the thinking and deal with the facts.

And what exactly is in your mind that foreigners can do to prepare? As you said, "this is Thailand"

[Butterfly]

ChiangMaiThai The point is that you have no standing. And that  point galls you.

I can appreciate that. But you know what? Who cares?

You would rather whine and complain rather than get motivated and do something. Like most people have to.

Then you feel this need to take shots, because of your fears and insecurities rather than seek solutions. You certainly did to me.

You're called on it and so now you punt with more idealism.

That's not going to work and the sooner you get off your butt and show what you're REALLY willing to do to secure that place in life, the more enlightened you may find yourself to be.

Well higher powers are now making the decision for you now. The freedom you thought you could have, doing a minimal amount of effort, isn't there after all and it hurts. And you're angry and afraid.

When the going get's tough the tough get going. Stop snivelling and get going.

If you don't think you can learn something from people who produce, and who work #### hard to do so AND try to make suggestions to help based on experince, then don't expect kindness when you very ignorantly insult people. It's can be a hard life. Better get a helmet is the best case reply you'll get after that..

I wish y'all the best, but really, nobody cares if you don't.

Mr Vietnam  

You are the most arrogant, conceited, self-satisfied jerk, I've ever had the fortune not to meet. No wonder your country is in the mess it's in, deluding itself that everyone loves it really, and really is only jealous of it's money and success (both monumental illusions, as is being proved in Iraq and elsewere around the world). It's called the Tigger syndrome.  It's you who are afraid and insecure pal.

yeah exactly. If Mr Vietnam is so happy to be in Vietnam and everything there is so wonderful, why is he trolling 24 hours a day on a Thai expats message board ?  

[molarman]

ineu,

i dont have anything particular in mind,if someone is not able to comply with the new laws then it is unfortunate for them,it may be sad, it may cause hardship, but it is a fact neverthe less.we should all have a plan 'B' in life.just in case because

nothing lasts forever in life.

[joinme2leave]

sure missed quite a lot of recent posts rgd. this very disappointing matter (and 34 pages might be just the beginning of a never-ending discussion), so excuse if this is a repeated comment...

asking your local (U.S.) congressmen to assist you in terms of "pro expat lobby"....HOW comes you think those ppl will help you????? NO WAY ! Why should somebody in U.S. or elsewhere be so loyal with "us" and accept that we stop paying taxes to our (former) home country government but instead spending all of our money in a "non-civilised" country faaaaar away from go(o)d?

In my opinion, it would be much better to find assistance in pro-western oriented THAI politicians. WHERE ARE THEY? Why not work out a good concept with them together? And let those ppl speak for us. THE SOONER THE BETTER.

Thought about emigrating to LOS many times and now having reached the point of decision: get another new (not too satisfying) job back "home" (currently austria)   o r   starting new life far away from government pretended rules. Just about 1 week ago our ministry of family concerns recommend our kids and teenagers to work HARDER on family plans and having children instead of having parties every day. What a nice suggestion! And again one of many reasons to leave.

BUT, after all what's beeing said already now (July 10, 2004 still is some time to go), should I reconsider?

Or - at least - should I think about Vietnam/Phillipines/South Africa instead?

Ufff.....lots of brain work coming up for me these days.

Anybody else here who's in the same position right now?

[singa-traz]

yeah exactly. If Mr Vietnam is so happy to be in Vietnam and everything there is so wonderful, why is he trolling 24 hours a day on a Thai expats message board ?  

I guess the same comment apply for those dreaming to relocate in Philippines/Panana, and those who are so unhappy of living in Thailand, or those waiting for the economy to crash ... while eating BBQ rats they catched in the rice fields ...

[opalhort]

The second point is we have no body or representation. There is no way for us to campaign for better rights, or to seek dedress when something such as a law is introduced, that works against us. Most of us foreigners are here as individuals and don't seem to want to band together. Maybe we fear that we will be deported as trouble makers, and want to keep our heads down.

[END QUOTE]

I think we do have representation here in Thailand but it only works if most foreigners engage in the same action, not only the few on this forum.

Many of us have a Thai wife and children, some of us employ Thai workers. If we ask our wife / children / employees to appeal to the elected representative of the district on their own behalf!! Not speak on behalf of the foreigner but instead explain what hardship (broken family, loss of jobs etc.) it would mean to them if the foreigner is not allowed to stay in Thailand.

I know, most Thai politicians are not very receptive to problems of the electorate, but there are quite a few who do care. The guy in our district is one of the good ones, even though he belongs to a party I would never have voted for if I had the voting right. He gets things solved without asking for money.

The only problem I see is how to get the majority of foreigners to ask their wives/children/employees to help out.

What we need is large numbers of petitions throughout the country.

Letters in this regard to the BKK Post/Nation would probably not be published. ThaiVisa forum is to small.

Any ideas how to get this message to the foreign community at large?

Rainer

[Butterfly]

yeah exactly. If Mr Vietnam is so happy to be in Vietnam and everything there is so wonderful, why is he trolling 24 hours a day on a Thai expats message board ?  

I guess the same comment apply for those dreaming to relocate in Philippines/Panana, and those who are so unhappy of living in Thailand, or those waiting for the economy to crash ... while eating BBQ rats they catched in the rice fields ...

well waiting for an economic crash does not mean I don't like Thailand. Can you see the difference here ?

I think the country will be in bad economic shape if it keeps taking this path, does this mean I should leave or forget everything here ? no. why should I ? please explain your point as it does not make any sense.

[mrentoul]

I thought that the idea of these types of expat forums was to help, offer advice and support each other, not to prove that I've got enough in the bank not to have to worry.

What a dull forum it would be if we all had to agree and ''support'' one another.

This assumption of a few recent posters that people who dare to disagree are being complacent and selfish doesn't take us anywhere. I can't agree with some of the arguments expressed here, because they are nonsense.

Several posts have taken issue with the B40,000 a month income threshold because it is higher than what the average Thai earns.

I thought that was the point. Westerners do earn more, so the income threshold is set at a higher rate. It's still not exorbitant, unless you've given up your western-style job and are living on a farm or whatever.

Those who chose to give up jobs in the West to live here on next to nothing may have to adjust. I can't imagine how those westerners do it, unless they cut almost all ties with the West. The point is not whether you lead harmless lives on your farms. It may be that the government doesn't want you here, or wants you to pay more for the right to live here.

Fears of families being broken up are exaggerated, I suspect, but even if they are not you are within your rights to complain. No amount of complaining here about unsupportive westerners is going to change that.

[easymoney]

I will add my two cents to this thread.

I have been in and out of Thailand since 1968. I am a retired Colonel from the US Army so none of this money thing affects me.

That said, the new requirements are intended to get the rift raft out. What is rift raft? Being 57 I don't know, maybe the undisireables. Who are they?

I will outlay a few thoughts:

1. Many good men are married to Thai women raising their kids and her thai children from previuos marriage to a Thai who is neither reponsible or caring about his children. They do this on 20 K a month and educate the kids.

2. Most have already spent their life savings to benefit thier families

3.Some have pensions of 700-1200 USD.Not enough

4. To take a family to USA does cost 335 + 139 each for Immigration and visa fees. It stops there. Period.

5. Statistically in my country 60% of the people have less than 2000 dollars saved.

6. People many men do come here and have seen that they can live here cheaply. Well many countries before Thailand were targets of people who want the simple life

7. In my opening I hate to see the Red Light Districts and they are filled with the undesirables, same as the Thai hangouts of Petaburi rd and Rachda.

8. Some people here have addressed the high flying goverment and political base as ethinic Chinese. Well with few exceptions that is true. The majority are Jiak.

9. Thais do not run this country. They have citizenship.

10. That said the US prospers as no other country because of the mulitude of diversities.

11. Thailand elite can't fathom competition.

12. Singapore and Hong Kong do.

13. On Vietnam I maintain a residence there and have a permanent resident card even though I spend less than two months a year there. They try to keep out the drunks ,pedifiles and other s less desireables.They don't care about the money only that you contribute. In Fact English teahers are well paid there compared here.

14. All this said I am a believer in Thailand I have 2 thai children not mine by birth but mine for life and I have 2 with my wife, I love here.

15. I deal  2 or 3 times a week with the big boys and some are great some are ludicrious.

16 Today at a luncheon meeting with the inner circle I told them my rates were going up 400% and deposits of 4 million baht would have to be posted to my attorneys escrow account. WOW the verbage pour edwhy I handed out the immigration story and they said why because equality.

Last thing is I like this forum emmensely. But to talk directly to Dr.PP and Mr V. Why are you in Thailand or are you?

As fin this or me I shedded blood here for the country. Thats why I do have good business. So again this change effects me not.

I just have always like a level playing field. I will say that I have disagreed with my home country Goverment 80% of the time.

Enough said from an undesirable Beer Chang drinker and sorry for misspells

[easymoney]

One more thing after reading last MV is that 69% of the men living here with Thai Wives do make less than the 40k threshold. That said if the Thai immigration would take into account the property value of the house the Thai wife holds because of Farng husbands money that would greatly lower the percentage and this is not a goverment given satisticbut would probably drop to 6 to 8 %

[mrvietnam2001]

Ok, last bit of commentary and advice:

Sha na na na, sha na na na na,

Sha na na na, sha na na na na,

Sha na na na, sha na na na na,

Sha na na na, sha na na na na,

Yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip

Mum mum mum mum mum mum

Get a job Sha na na na, sha na na na na

Every morning about this time

she get me out of my bed

a-crying get a job.

After breakfast, everyday,

she throws the want ads right my way

And never fails to say,

Get a job Sha na na na, sha na na na na

Sha na na na, sha na na na na,

Sha na na na, sha na na na na,

Sha na na na, sha na na na na,

Yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip

Mum mum mum mum mum mum

Get a job Sha na na na, sha na na na na

And when I get the paper

I read it through and through

And my girl never fails to say

If there is any work for me,

And when I go back to the house

I hear the woman's mouth

Preaching and a crying,

Tell me that I'm lying 'bout a job

That I never could find.

Sha na na na, sha na na na na,

Sha na na na, sha na na na na,

Sha na na na, sha na na na na,

Sha na na na, sha na na na na,

Yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip

Mum mum mum mum mum mum

Get a job Sha na na na, sha na na na na GET A JOB

THE SILHOUETTES

(from sheet music)

And a couple of replies:

Mr "Butterfly" NOYB

Mr pnustedt: Bingo again!

Mr Easy Money: Wrong. The US prospers as no other place because of the level of personal freedoms. Not because of diversity. Diversity was able to capitalize because of the personal freedoms. Without freedom you have nothing.

You are absolutely right about Vietnam. Cam on!

Mostly in the US now, with business in Thailand, business and home in Vietnam. I "thought" of relocating the home part to Thailand but chose to let it go because of a multitude of reasons. I don't think I need to illuminate that to you, because you're one of the few that "know" the differences. My regards to you  

Nguoi anh la nhung nguoi lo bich,luon than van keu ca.

CHUA PHU HO CHO NUOC MY!!

Mr Vietnam ( with interests all over)

 

[easymoney]

I am on a roll as I just reread the thread. I think all farangs should have a 400% tax on thier salaries and 200% tax on renting condos. Lets be fair they just came here to rape the country of profits. I also think renting of houses should be included and if they are supported by multination countries they should leave the country every 5 days. If they brought family a 600 dollar a month charge for each dependent. If company pays they still are required to pay or no exit.

The one thing I failed to add before is that I am

[easymoney]

sorry phone call

I am a Thai Citizen now

[singa-traz]

well waiting for an economic crash does not mean I don't like Thailand. Can you see the difference here ?

I think the country will be in bad economic shape if it keeps taking this path, does this mean I should leave or forget everything here ? no. why should I ? please explain your point as it does not make any sense.

Was my comment specifically for you ? I don't think so.

After re-reading the thread "Economic bubbles and miracles, All this talk about another crash", we can even spot some positive comment about the Thai Economy.

Yeah the economy got better since Toxin got into power ...

But you DO SEE the Thai Economy taking a bad shape in the near future ... even if you acknowledge the difficulty to substantiate such claim ... kind of WMD ...

It's difficult to find hard evidence to support this. And if there were, it would be too late already. It might not be a crash, but a long and slow crisis.

Anyway ... Did I say you did not like Thailand, and as such recommend that you ought to leave the country? No, I just suspect you may not appreciate their current leader (you spell his name wrongly), and I would agree with you, even that would not be a good reason to tell you to pack and go.

If the Thai economy was going to crash like Argentina just did (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1721103.stm), then you/we may have no other alternative than to leave ... at least, I would have to leave ... I need to work to feed my family, and need to earn way more than 40KTHB per month ...

I still don't understand, why you see the Thai economy going down in a few years time, without being able to support the claim with a proper argumentation.

[easymoney]

Mr V it was a given that  about personal freedoms.

Now on Beer Chang 5 Qt . Please readt the pending Patriot Act then give me some feed back. But Vietnam is most gracious

[Rambutan]

I do understand you very well Mr. Vietnam. But could you please point out then what options there are in Thailand right now to make the required monthly income? I mean one person not two combined.

I know very well that it is quite easy to make 1k $ in the  US.

Probably you missunderstod the point that the complainers are living here in TL and not in the US, where it were understandable to call them somewhat unproductive but they do live here allready.

And maybe you could become a little productive and be so kind and give those people a hint about what you really mean when you ask them to get productive here in TL. Just some ideas! What real options are there? I mean if there are so many then the 55+mio Thais are probably just lazy and thats why they make less then 40k, isnt it?

I'm serious, I want to know what you really mean.

[mrvietnam2001]

Mr V it was a given that  about personal freedoms.

Now on Beer Chang 5 Qt . Please readt the pending Patriot Act then give me some feed back. But Vietnam is most gracious

Mr Easy Money:

Well certainly you've been away a long time and those freedoms have eroded considerably Economics will dictate a further decline propelling many "thinkers" to seek the expat idea.

The patriot act is anything but. It's a horrid thing and a monstrocity that rivals the worst kind of degradation of liberty. The pathetic part of it is that few even see it for what it really is and seem confused but just content or robot like in using typical excuses ( especially today) to justify it. There is no justification.

We're all being played and obviously you're one of the few who know it.

So we have to either play better and create our own individual advantages, or be reduced to ignorance and subservience. Cause it certainly can't be "beaten" using force.

Regards

Mr Vietnam  

[mrvietnam2001]

Mr Rambutan,

I did in my initial post and was critisized or ignored as I quite frankly expected. And I did more than once.

So I refer you to those.

If after you give that a shot you still have a real interest in real details that I have to offer then pm me.

I'm no different than you or anyone else in that I have the same or similar ideas, dreams and goals, and am met with the same or similar scenarios that life throws up as blockades to those goals. The difference is what you're really willing to do to TRY to overcome those blockades.

Many are not really willing to do anything except whine. I say too bad to them and conversely, my best wishes to those who don't.

Then maybe form a couple of alliances with those who do take the shots and see what happens.

Rgrds

Mr Vietnam  

[mrvietnam2001]

Rambutan BTW, I didn't misunderstand anything. Au contraire.

Mr Vietnam  

[Butterfly]

well waiting for an economic crash does not mean I don't like Thailand. Can you see the difference here ?

I think the country will be in bad economic shape if it keeps taking this path, does this mean I should leave or forget everything here ? no. why should I ? please explain your point as it does not make any sense.

Was my comment specifically for you ? I don't think so.

After re-reading the thread "Economic bubbles and miracles, All this talk about another crash", we can even spot some positive comment about the Thai Economy.

Yeah the economy got better since Toxin got into power ...

But you DO SEE the Thai Economy taking a bad shape in the near future ... even if you acknowledge the difficulty to substantiate such claim ... kind of WMD ...

It's difficult to find hard evidence to support this. And if there were, it would be too late already. It might not be a crash, but a long and slow crisis.

Anyway ... Did I say you did not like Thailand, and as such recommend that you ought to leave the country? No, I just suspect you may not appreciate their current leader (you spell his name wrongly), and I would agree with you, even that would not be a good reason to tell you to pack and go.

If the Thai economy was going to crash like Argentina just did (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1721103.stm), then you/we may have no other alternative than to leave ... at least, I would have to leave ... I need to work to feed my family, and need to earn way more than 40KTHB per month ...

I still don't understand, why you see the Thai economy going down in a few years time, without being able to support the claim with a proper argumentation.

WMD ? where ?  

Some of your comments (maybe not intentional) were for me. I am not critizing Thailand for what it is and still coming to this board to support such criticism (assuming from your comments) but just expressing a worry about future expectations and what might come to be.

I was mainly commenting on Mr Vietnam (NOYB ??? MV is that a new name ?) reasons for coming to a Thai expats board and bragging about its beautiful Vietnam.

Re: Crash

We went there already. I am not going to repeat that thread. No matter the amount of evidence (no WMD here), it will not convince the ones drinking the KoolAid. We are still too early in this stage to have "solid" evidence but we are taking the path for sure. Of course, things can change and that path can also changed.

No I didn't mispell Thaksin, as it is pronounced Toxin  

[tutsiwarrior]

mrentoul...per usual you are a miserable bastard...unforgiving of those that would stay in Thailand with limited resources. If all the backpacker English teachers were to leave Thailand in a gang then good luck to the shit head ministers that had their best intentions (lining their pockets) backfire on them.

mrvietnam...most of us MOTOWN aficionados agree that you should be brought to ground and SHOT in the name of non-defamation of classic pop music...the English used to display heads on pikes on bridges over the Thames not so long ago...

[jonwilly]

23.00hrs 9/11/03 sat in departure BKK for UK. No problems at all with immigration everything normal. Any bets on weather I'll get back in cuntry?

jon

[DaveYo]

Hold it fellas, sure we occassionaly see some westerner begging out in the streets.  Question is why?  I am sure when he or she came to Thailand they too were OK financially.  It would not surprise me that this individual got screwed big time money wise and left his place broke for whatever reason it may be.

I understand Thailand does not want these people.  Ok if they do not want these people around, Then I suggest to the Thailand Government to pick them up and pay for them a one way ticket on the plane back home and send them and their belongings whatever they have with them home too.

The investment on this part is worth it to spare the misery this person has just to survive in Thailand.

So don't tell me that the Thailand Government is too poor to pay for a simple one way Ticket home for the transients.

Incidently they are rounding up the stray Dogs now so why not do the same for the unfortunate and give them a hand.  I am sure if they had the money to go they would vamoose fast.

Also I wonder on this too, the police are around constantly, why they do not do anything to enforce their rules on the transient who is in plain complete sight of these officers, but try to enforce this baloney on the true hard working expats in Thailand who either are married or single or retired.

Get my drift here?

:blues:

???

[mrvietnam2001]

mrentoul...per usual you are a miserable bastard...unforgiving of those that would stay in Thailand with limited resources. If all the backpacker English teachers were to leave Thailand in a gang then good luck to the shit head ministers that had their best intentions (lining their pockets) backfire on them.

mrvietnam...most of us MOTOWN aficionados agree that you should be brought to ground and SHOT in the name of non-defamation of classic pop music...the English used to display heads on pikes on bridges over the Thames not so long ago...

Predictable commentary and quite laughable actually mr motown "wannabe".

The bros know where I stand. You no bro man.

And the Va nguoi anh la nhung nguoi hen yeu, nhu la tre con, dung vay khong? Hahahahahaha.

Mr Vietnam  

[Whiplash]

My advice to anyone here (like me) that don't like some of the bitchy posts in this thread are:

DON'T REPLY TO THEM !

Just ignore those idividuals and they will eventually go away.

I sometimes wish that this board had a option to put some posters on [iGNORE]..  temporary or on a permant basis..

Because like in some chats these kind of boards also attract people whos only agenda is to be annoying to others..  ???

People like that have the effect that some members here won't bother to contribute to the discussions here.

Just check the amount of views this thread has as to actual posts..  

17600+ views to 350+ posts..  

[opalhort]

The second point is we have no body or representation. There is no way for us to campaign for better rights, or to seek dedress when something such as a law is introduced, that works against us. Most of us foreigners are here as individuals and don't seem to want to band together. Maybe we fear that we will be deported as trouble makers, and want to keep our heads down.

[END QUOTE]

I think we do have representation here in Thailand but it only works if most foreigners engage in the same action, not only the few on this forum.

Many of us have a Thai wife and children, some of us employ Thai workers. If we ask our wife / children / employees to appeal to the elected representative of the district on their own behalf!! Not speak on behalf of the foreigner but instead explain what hardship (broken family, loss of jobs etc.) it would mean to them if the foreigner is not allowed to stay in Thailand.

I know, most Thai politicians are not very receptive to problems of the electorate, but there are quite a few who do care. The guy in our district is one of the good ones, even though he belongs to a party I would never have voted for if I had the voting right. He gets things solved without asking for money.

The only problem I see is how to get the majority of foreigners to ask their wives/children/employees to help out.

What we need is large numbers of petitions throughout the country.

Letters in this regard to the BKK Post/Nation would probably not be published. ThaiVisa forum is to small.

Any ideas how to get this message to the foreign community at large?

Rainer

what's the matter with you all?

I thought this forum is to discuss and find solutions to the problems which we may face if the new regulations come into effect.

all I have seen 'till now is mudslinging and statements degrading the Thai people.

isn't it possible to talk about how to overcome the problems we foreigners may be facing?

Rainer

[tutsiwarrior]

Whiplash...lighten up...we just fooling around. You think I'm gonna get out the AK47 and mess with someone because I don't like his post? Sheeit...we could be eating breakfast together just down the road.

mrvietnam...I juss messin' with you...I got bros all up and down the West Coast so baaaad that you ain't worth their time. Peace brother...no bullshit from me coming your way. Just a matter of messin' around.

But you still ain't worth a shit with the Motown...