Reflections On Angeles City

[MeetJohnDoe]

This is a supplement to my post in the Pattaya sub-forum on my current visa-run/holiday in Angeles, and comparisons between the two places and general notes that may be of interest to anyone who plans to visit Angeles sometime in the future.

As mentioned before, Cebu Pacific Air flies 3 days a week direct from Bangkok to the former American military airbase in Angeles named Clark. This is a pleasant 3-hour flight in a newish A320 and the current fare is very cheap at around B 6500 return (USD 185.00). Clark Airbase is located direct adjacent to the entertainment district of Angeles called Balibago. It is in Balibago that 95% of the visitors to Angeles stay, eat, and shop and is the center of the town's nitelife. It is a 5-10 minute taxi ride from the airport to Balibago and the cost is around P 300 (USD 6.00).

When most tourists speak of "Angeles City," what they are really referring to is the entertainment district of Balibago, which lies immediately outside the main entrance to the former military base and along the perimeter road alongside the former base. Unlike Pattaya, the Balibago district of Angeles is quite small. In fact, it comprises basically about 2 kilometers of the aforementioned perimeter road called Fields Avenue/Perrimiter Road and a couple side streets for maybe a block or so each. Over the past few years, there has also been a large influx of Korean investment in hotels and niteclubs. This has taken place along the main tourist strip along Fields/Real avenues and along Friendship Road, a couple kilos up from Fields. The area along Friendship is called Korea Town, and has several Korean restaurants and bars/karaoke establishments that cater to the preferences of a Korean clientèle.

The current atmosphere in town is very lively...many hotels are full, the restaurants are busy, and the bars are doing a roaring trade. In some ways, it's just the opposite of what seems to be the prevailing mood in Pattaya, where media reports endlessly drone on about how "low" this high-season is. The fun factor is definitely high right now in Angeles while the bloom seems to be off Pattaya's rose to some extent. What the cause for the dichotomy is anyone's guess...maybe the political turmoil in Thailand the past few years and the recent airport closures have put some off. The bad reputation Thailand is getting for putting the lid on entertainment venues with early closures, random drug and ID checks, any maybe even the smoking restrictions of recent years may be taking a toll. But if I had to put a finger on it, I would put allot of it down to value for money. For many, Thailand is just getting darn expensive as a holiday destination. Couple that with the improvements in the number and quality of hotels and restaurants in Angeles and for some, it is a viable alternative to Pattaya. I would say that across the board, things are about 1/3 less than comparables in Pattaya. That goes for food, drink, shopping, and drinking and entertaining in bars.

One thing people don't often associate with Angeles is shopping; and until recently this was certainly true. However, with the opening of the S&M shopping mall and department store just steps away from Fields Avenue a few years ago, that has now changed. For someone coming from Pattaya/Thailand, there are definitely things one can buy there for much cheaper than Thailand. Some things like native cigars are not even available in Thailand. One will often find things priced in Pesos are about the same price in Baht back in Thailand; however, as the exchange rate for US$ is about 25% more for Pesos, the price is effectively 25% less than buying the item in Pattaya/Thailand. At the other extreme is wine, a ridiculously expensive purchase in Thailand due to the tax regime on it. In the Philippines, there is no extortionate tax rate on wine and one can pick-up a bottle here and almost pay for your airfare with the savings from a single bottle. As examples, I purchased two bottles of wine to take back with me: an Australian Rosemount Chardonnay and a Robert Mondavi Cabernet for P 1800 total or about US$ 38.00 (US$ 20 each). These wines might have cost me around B 3000-4000 baht a bottle in Pattaya or US$ 90.00-120.00 (USD 90-110 each)

I must put in a mention somewhere of one of my favorite daytime activities while in Angeles...getting a haircut and straight-razor shave. There are a couple barbershops (real barbershops...not beauty salons) at the mall where a 30 minute haircut or shave will set you back the princely sum of P 80 or $ 1.70 for either. You can have the works for less than $ 4.00. Believe me, it's the best $ 2.00 you will ever spend...your face will feel wonderful. There are also a couple spas and facials places...one interesting service offered was called "ear cuddling," I leave it to your imagination as to what this might entail.

While inexpensive clothes are easy to find in Thailand, I still often buy some here as well as again, item for item, they are about 25% cheaper than Thailand's already good prices. I picked up some nice good quality denim jeans for P 750 or US$ 16.00. Comparable jeans in Thailand would run B 800 or USD 23.00. Another nice thing about the clothes in the Philippines is that they seem to fit a Westerner better as they are sized for the larger body type prevalent here...many of the clothes in Thailand are sized and cut to fit a very trim Asian man's figure...not a middle-aged farang's. At the Philippine Watsons, a 100 pack of Centrum multi-vitamins is P 900 or $ 19.00; in Pattaya, I can't find them for less than around B 1300 or $ 37.00 (A 100% difference in price!).

Finally, in regards to good buys here, is cigars. The Philippines has a large domestic tobacco growing industry and native cigar manufacturers. In fact, one of my favorite ways to give a thumb-nail description of the difference between Thailand and the Philippines is to say that Thailand is a whiskey and cigarettes culture while the Philippines is a rum and cigar consuming culture. That being said, local cigars are a inexpensive buy compared to the imported varieties available in Thailand. They are not of the same high quality as a Thai imported Cuban or Dominican (if they are in good condition...a very big if in many Bangkok and Thailand tobacco shops) but they also don't cost $ 15.00-30.00 a stick either. A 25 box of good quality Philippine cigars will cost between P 2000-3000 or $43.00-64.00 ($ 1.72-2.60 each). Cheaper varieties that are still smokable can be bought for half this price. In Thailand, due again to high taxes, boxes of cigars can easily cost $ 300.00-500.00. When I went to buy a couple boxes of cigars today, I received a bonus as well for in the tobacco department of the mall department store, there was a representative of one of the main cigar manufacturers who was demonstrating the art of rolling hand-made cigars from aged tobacco leaves. Her finished cigars (coronas) were available as free premiums for those making box purchases. For every box bought, I received 8 fresh newly rolled cigars as well...so I received 16 additional cigars free (about 1/3 more free). In fact, after I complete this post, I'm going out to smoke one

One other diversion available in Angeles and not in Pattaya/Thailand is casino gambling. Not only is there a regulated casino a few blocks from the main entertainment area but there are also several hotels that have 24/7 card rooms on the premises. In addition, many of the larger bars have installed electronic gaming machines (gambling machines not kiddie game machines) on site so you can get trashed, enjoy some female company, and loose money at poker all at the same time The hotel card rooms often play Texas Hold-em poker. The casino has poker and blackjack (and maybe other games as well), with the minimum hand at the blackjack tables of P 500 or $10.00.

Well, that about covers what I want to say about what's going on in Angeles at the moment. All in all, it's not a bad place to spend up to a week. After that, it would get a little repetitious but for a short stay, it's an interesting change from "home."

PS: A couple other things I forgot to mention, there is a multi-plex in the mall. On a sociological note, the make-up of Angeles tourists is undergoing large shifts. Up until a few years ago, I would say that 60% were Americans/Roos/Kiwis; 20% Euros (including Brits); 20% Japanese/Korean. Now, it appears more like 40% Americans/Roos/Kiwis; 40% Korean/Japanese (but mostly Korean); 20% Euros. Interestingly, I have also seen some Indians looking lost around town and this one would never have seen before.

[samuibeachcomber]

thanks for an interesting post.have never been but maybe one day.

[stament]

Hi great report. You mentioned that most things are cheaper than Thailand but what about hotel costs? I've heard thats a lot more expensive than Thailand

[wileycoyote]

Would you recommend taking US dollars or Filipino Pesos ?

[Asianrider]

thanks for posting this information !

did Thai SIM card work there ?

[MeetJohnDoe]

In reply to the questions:

You are right, I did mean to mention that the one area where there is little cost savings is in hotels. It's not so much that they are more expensive but that there is little available on the cheap end. And what there is is really old and not so comfortable. The Exec. Deluxe room I have at Pacific Breeze is $ 60 per nite...new and comfy with tub...in Pattaya probably about the same. What Angeles lacks is all the decent $ 20-$ 30 per nite guest-houses we have in Patters.

Also, restaurant selection is nothing compared to Pattaya but there are allot more and better choices than before and prices are cheaper.

Not sure what you mean by $ or pesos. Any hard currency is ex-changeable at the many money-exchanges. There are ATMs in Balibago and the mall. Credit cards are also acceptable at major merchants and most hotels.

I guess if you have roaming it will work. I always just buy a local SIM card (P 60 or $ 1.50) and some time. I bought a P 300 refill card and have used it locally for a week and made 3 short calls back to LOS and still have time left.

[syd barrett]

Nice report.

How far in advance did you book Cebu Pacific air tickets? Did you book them online? Was the plane from BKK full?

[MeetJohnDoe]

Nice report.

How far in advance did you book Cebu Pacific air tickets? Did you book them online? Was the plane from BKK full?

About 1 week...I was unable to book online as their payment engine won't accept my credit card (foreign cards) so I went to their main office (Nancy Travel) in Bangkok...I would say 75%. It's a 3x3 configuration and I had no problem finding a row with an empty middle seat.

[LTGTR]

Excellent update but too bad about $10 min at blackjack table.

[Spaniel]

Nice report. I guess a lot has changed in Angles since my last trip there in 1985. Then it was a real shit hole although the girls were nice.

[TheWalkingMan]

That was a very nice report. Thanks for posting.

TheWalkingMan

[Mobi]

Yes it is a good trip report, especiallly the shopping stuf, of which I was unaware. (I wonder why? )

Here is a slightly amended version of the post I also made on the now closed thread in the Pattaya Forum.

But if we are comparing Pattaya (the area from Beach to 3^rd road) to Angeles City, as a venue for sex tourists - let’s face it that’s what most tourists in these places are - then IMHO there’s no contest.

I was in AC last year and here are a few of the pluses:

[discussion of prostitution deleted per Forum Rules]

The bars are all reasonably priced and the beer is very cheap. Most bars are managed by westerners (mainly retired Americans) and they always make you feel welcome and very often buy you at least one drink on the house. (I can’t remember the last time I was bought a free drink in Pattaya). Most bars have pretty good food which is often free in the evenings.

There are no closing restrictions on bars and many operate 24/7 and they are always full of girls.

The hotels are a little more expensive, but excellent value. Rooms are nice, with free condoms and high speed broadband, all the staff speak good English and are very friendly and helpful. The waitresses are lovely – at least they were in my hotel. Food was very good.

For smokers (not me) there are no smoking restrictions.

Yes, there is a lot of violence in PI but I didn’t and hear or see any untoward incidents and felt safe walking around at all hours of the day and night. I understand that The Police keep AC crime free as they want to protect their “investment”.

It’s difficult to think of any negatives – especially as you can now fly directly into Clark, and no longer have that long road journey from Manila.

When I posted a slightly longer version of this in the Pattaya forum, a certain member took issue with many of the points I made, claiming he had lived there for a number of years before moving to Pattaya and of course knew better than me.

Well all I can say is that things may well have changed since he was last there, and the friends who went with me, (one of whom goes 4 times a year), agree with my version.

For example, this guy claimed there was only one bar that was open 24/7, which is just rubbish, as we found quite a few, and were in many of them as dawn rose to prove it.

Anyway, whatever the truth, it is certainly a fun city, we had the time of our lives, and will repeat the experience as soon as an opportunity arises.

[maxjay]

I was unable to book online as their payment engine won't accept my credit card (foreign cards) so I went to their main office (Nancy Travel) in Bangkok...

Yes, good report. Thank you.

Could you please post or PM me the telephone number for "Nancy Travel", and if you have an English speaking agent you work with, their name.

[MeetJohnDoe]

I was unable to book online as their payment engine won't accept my credit card (foreign cards) so I went to their main office (Nancy Travel) in Bangkok.

Could you please post or PM me the telephone number for "Nancy Travel"

Cebu Pacific has their offices at Nancy World Aviation, Surawong Wattanakarn Building, 322/88 Surawong Road, Bangkok.

02-266-4751-3. email: <snip>.

This is actually a large travel agency and they have English speaking staff. It is located about a kilometer or so down Surawonge Road from the Rama 4 intersection...on the right-hand side of the road (if coming from Rama 4 direction).

[MeetJohnDoe]

Yes it is a good trip report, especiallly the shopping stuf, of which I was unaware. (I wonder why? )

Here is a slightly amended version of the post I also made on the now closed thread in the Pattaya Forum.

Anyway, whatever the truth, it is certainly a fun city, we had the time of our lives, and will repeat the experience as soon as an opportunity arises.

Thank you for the kind words. All that you say is true, however, per the Forum rules, I purposely left out extensive discussion about the nitelife. This type of information is easily available at any number of websites and therefore, I found no need to mention it to any extent in my op.

If anyone would like specifics on Angeles nitelife, feel free to PM me.

[caulfield2]

The common denominator that you see in both places in desperation...both on the part of the men, but mostly the women, because there is an incredible amount of competition.

Sometimes I wonder why girls don't leave those cities and work in places (in the case of Pattaya/Issan girls) like Chonburi, SriRacha or Bangsaen where they have the choice of sleeping with their clients or they can get by as coyote dancers and can make 20-30K a month from selling ladies' drinks and just sitting at the table with a group of men.

Angeles City is definitely cheap...but you also feel "cheapened" going there, lol.

In general, the Filipinas do have the big advantage in terms of communication skills, and that means a lot. The islands/resorts are comparable as well....Boracay, Subic, Palawan, Bohol....in fact, the best thing (and what I'd recommend) is guys find a girl they really like and enjoy being with and take her on vacation with them. This is pretty common in the Phils...there are so many bars, the girls just "quit/disappear" and go with you and find a way back at the end of the trip if they want to return to work.

[discussion of prostitution removed]

[Lancelot]

Nice report MJD I live in Thailand but for the past three years I've been spending a couple of months per year in the Philippines, mostly in Angeles City (AC.) In addition to your good info my small contribution is:

1. According to XE currency, the USD/ Philippine Piso exchange rate is 47 pisos = $1 USD.

2. Budget hotels are in shorter supply than Pattaya but I stay in a Peremiter area hotel for around P 800 a night. Discounts are availble for stays of a week or longer. (Peremiter is the opposite way from Fields Avenue, the "Walking Street" of AC)

3. I have a three year old Buddy Sim that I laod up every time I return to the Phils and its always worked, even after an absence of 11 months

4. In AC I don't eat off the street like I do in Thailand but restaurant food is avaible to suit most budgets.

5 Most Peremiter are bars were selling San Miguel Light beer for P50, thats just over $1 USD for a beer in an air conditioned Go Go bar

6. The Filipinos are polite and usually address strangers formally as "Please come inside Sir, Welcome Sir."

7. I've received so many complimentary beers from bar managers; they've made me feel welcome and they seem to appreciate my business. FWIW, the best managers always seem to be Australians (I'm American.)

8. The punters are predominately older guys that actually own shirts and sport very few tatoos. There are bad apples everwhere, but -so far- AC has not attracted some of the riff raff that seem to be increasingly flosking to Pattaya.

9. 21 day free visa exemption stamp at the airport. Its east to extend your time in country at Immigration. They work on a 59 day system, in that when your time is up, you extend for another 59 days, no need to leave the country on "visa runs"

Down Sides?

1. Relatively poor infastructure.

2. Free lancer underage scams involving the police

3. Much smaller than Pattaya

4. Only a handful of "open air bars" if thats your thing.

5 Most filipinas want to marry you and get the f*&^ out of the Philippines :D:D

[MeetJohnDoe]

Nice report MJD I live in Thailand but for the past three years I've been spending a couple of months per year in the Philippines, mostly in Angeles City. In addition to your good info my small contribution is:

2. Budget hotels are in shorter supply than Pattaya but I stay in a Peremiter area hotel for around P 800 a night. Discounts are available for stays of a week or longer. (Peremiter is the opposite way from Fields Avenue, the "Walking Street" of AC)

Yes, there is budget accommodation available but just not as much...and the value/comfort factor would be less than Pattaya.

4. In AC I don't eat off the street like I do in Thailand but restaurant food is avaible to suit most budgets.

Good point that I didn't mention...I would never eat street food in the Philippines like I do on occasion in Thailand. Some is good and clean but most is not and the risk of serious stomach upset too great.

6. The Filipinos are polite and usually address strangers formally as "Please come inside Sir, Welcome Sir."

Completely agree...there is a genuine warmth from most Filipino people; and respect and courtesy, if given, is returned in spades...not just from bar employees but in stores, restos, and even the airport immigration folks.

7. I've received so many complimentary beers from bar managers; they've made me feel welcome and they seem to appreciate my business.

This too is somewhat unique to Angeles bars. It is a regular custom in most bars for the manager to send over a complementary drink(s) to returning guests...in some bars, it's almost 1:1 in that you get a free one for every one you buy. Happy Hours are most often 2 for 1 as well.

Down Sides?

1. Relatively poor infastructure.

2. Free lancer underage scams involving the police

3. Much smaller than Pattaya

4. Only a handful of "open air bars" if thats your thing.

5 Most filipinas want to marry you and get the f*&^ out of the Philippines.

All true as well.

The only other one I would add is the paucity of daytime activities (other than bar-hopping). That's why having the new mall is so great. There are also lots of organized hotel and bar pool parties that take place on an almost daily basis somewhere around town. There are also organized bar-parties by groups like the Dog House and the Sons of Bacchus (SOBs ) There are also a couple golf courses on Clark.

[thaibeachlovers]

Nice report MJD I live in Thailand but for the past three years I've been spending a couple of months per year in the Philippines, mostly in Angeles City (AC.) In addition to your good info my small contribution is:

1. According to XE currency, the USD/ Philippine Piso exchange rate is 47 pisos = $1 USD.

2. Budget hotels are in shorter supply than Pattaya but I stay in a Peremiter area hotel for around P 800 a night. Discounts are availble for stays of a week or longer. (Peremiter is the opposite way from Fields Avenue, the "Walking Street" of AC)

3. I have a three year old Buddy Sim that I laod up every time I return to the Phils and its always worked, even after an absence of 11 months

4. In AC I don't eat off the street like I do in Thailand but restaurant food is avaible to suit most budgets.

5 Most Peremiter are bars were selling San Miguel Light beer for P50, thats just over $1 USD for a beer in an air conditioned Go Go bar

6. The Filipinos are polite and usually address strangers formally as "Please come inside Sir, Welcome Sir."

7. I've received so many complimentary beers from bar managers; they've made me feel welcome and they seem to appreciate my business. FWIW, the best managers always seem to be Australians (I'm American.)

8. The punters are predominately older guys that actually own shirts and sport very few tatoos. There are bad apples everwhere, but -so far- AC has not attracted some of the riff raff that seem to be increasingly flosking to Pattaya.

9. 21 day free visa exemption stamp at the airport. Its east to extend your time in country at Immigration. They work on a 59 day system, in that when your time is up, you extend for another 59 days, no need to leave the country on "visa runs"

Down Sides?

1. Relatively poor infastructure.

2. Free lancer underage scams involving the police

3. Much smaller than Pattaya

4. Only a handful of "open air bars" if thats your thing.

5 Most filipinas want to marry you and get the f*&^ out of the Philippines :D:D

re the visa renewal, would you please be able to tell me how much each extension is, is there a limit on the number of renewals and is it able to be done in Angeles?

Is there a better visa for staying a year or more?

Would I be able to live there for about the same cost as in Pattaya ( not including "entertainment")?

I have tried to find the answers on the 'net, but none of the websites I have found give very clear information.

Thanks for any info given.

[phuketrichard]

been to AC and Pattaya and AC is Pattaya without the beach or open air bars.

To me its pits and the people that hang out in ac are some of the worst farangs i have run into in asia. Many older guys than u get in Pattaya and although not as heavily tattoed they are mostly there for the cheap beer and girls.

Food is terriable and overpriced (unless u like poorly prepared western food) and more expensive than Pattaya.

Hotels cost more.

Used to be ac u had more chance of being robbed or pickpocketed but Pattaya is catching up to them in that respect

Never had my hair cut there and dont smoke so cigars dont interest me and i didn't move to Aisa to hang out in malls so to me there is actaully nothing to offer other than bars which means daytime nothing to do.

Although i don't particuarly care for Pattaya will take it any day over AC.

[ClaytonSeymour]

Pattaya without the beach

Am I right in assuming that means few, if any, Russians?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Pattaya-s-Ec...an-t240553.html

[maxjay]

re the visa renewal, would you please be able to tell me how much each extension is, is there a limit on the number of renewals and is it able to be done in Angeles?

Is there a better visa for staying a year or more?

Would I be able to live there for about the same cost as in Pattaya ( not including "entertainment")?

Perhaps your questions can be answered here:

http://www.livinginthephilippines.com/index.html

http://www.skipsbeachresort.com/frequently...d_questions.htm

From what I read on this site: http://www.gov.ph/faqs/retirement.asp, investment in the P.I., IE: Condo Purchase, will be applied to a SPECIAL RESIDENT RETIREE'S VISA (SRRV).

WHAT AREAS OF INVESTMENTS ARE AVAILABLE TO A RESIDENT RETIREE?

The areas of investment are the following:

1. Purchase of a condominium unit;
   
2. Lease of a parcel of land or house and lot;
   
3. Construction of a residential unit on a leased parcel of land;
   
4. Propriety shares in golf clubs;
   
5. For former Filipinos, purchase of a lot not exceeding 5,000 square meters in urban areas or three (3) hectares rural areas to be used for business or other purposes.
   

I owned a condo for years here in Thailand, never mattered one iota in regard to Thai immigration requirements.

[Lancelot]

re the visa renewal, would you please be able to tell me how much each extension is, is there a limit on the number of renewals and is it able to be done in Angeles?

Is there a better visa for staying a year or more?

Would I be able to live there for about the same cost as in Pattaya ( not including "entertainment")?

I have tried to find the answers on the 'net, but none of the websites I have found give very clear information.

Thanks for any info given.

The first renewal is P3,010. Subsequent renewals are more expensive but they can be done right at AC, no need to exit the country. Here is a link to PI Immigration http://immigration.gov.ph//index.php?optio...8&Itemid=43

Spending is subjective, one guy thinks AC is cheaper than Pattaya, the next insists that Pattaya is the better deal (and flame the hel_l out of any one daring to disagree, LOL!)

FYI, when I have a question, I simply "Google" the question and I've gotten some great info that way.

Good luck

[Mobi]

On the subject of hotels, I see from the internet today, and using today's exchange rates, that rooms at the wild Orchid run from around 2,800 Baht to 3,500 /day.

However I stayed at the Orchid Inn, which was right in the heart of the action, and a very nice, friendly hotel, with good rooms, free internet, nice pool, excellent 24 hr coffee shop/restaurant etc etc, and the rates there run from 1,100 Baht - 2,100 for a family room. About on a par, if not cheaper than Pattaya.

been to AC and Pattaya and AC is Pattaya without the beach or open air bars.

To me its pits and the people that hang out in ac are some of the worst farangs i have run into in Asia. Many older guys than u get in Pattaya and although not as heavily tattooed they are mostly there for the cheap beer and girls.

Food is terrible and overpriced (unless u like poorly prepared western food) and more expensive than Pattaya.

Hotels cost more.

Used to be ac u had more chance of being robbed or pick pocketed but Pattaya is catching up to them in that respect

Never had my hair cut there and don't smoke so cigars don't interest me and i didn't move to Asia to hang out in malls so to me there is actually nothing to offer other than bars which means daytime nothing to do.

Although i don't particularly care for Pattaya will take it any day over AC.

Well of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I certainly respect that.

Maybe we are comparing Apples to Oranges.

Nobody has ever claimed that AC is anything but a a few streets full of bars and girls, it is certainly not a resort in any sense of the word and has never claimed to be. But I do think it is fair to compare , say the main red light district of Pattaya (bounded by Beach Road, South to North Pattaya, up to third Road) with AC, and INMHO, AC comes out way ahead for all the reasons I have already stated.

For those who wish to indulge in pursuits, other than bar hopping, then clearly Pattaya has much more to offer (which is why I live there).

You only have to read the OP's report that all the bars and hotels were overflowing, to know they must be doing something right, as opposed to Pattaya, where bars are going out of business every day, and many of those remaining are increasingly resorting to scamming and extorting their customers in a desperate attempt to keep afloat. BTW when I went to AC back in August, we omitted to book a hotel in advance and had a lot of trouble finding rooms, and this was on a Wednesday.

Incidentally, has anyone been to the beaches at Subic Bay? I have heard they are nice, with their own collection of bars. A 2 weeks holiday could include 1 week in AC and another week by the beach. Here is a link to Subic Bay, but I have no personal experience of it. SUBIC BAY

[grahamhc]

What I like with AC is that the girls are more fun than in Pattaya - not only laughing and joking at work, but including you in their group. I find you rarely get that (in the gogos) in Thailand.

Maybe this is due to Filippinos are brought up to express themselves, such as singing in Church, which is why I do not shudder when they want to go "Sing-a-song", whereas most Thais could not sing to save their lives, as they are brought up to be quiet and subservient to their superiors, with no vocal training.

Another good thing is the lack of TATTOOS !! On my last trip of 5 days, in all the places I visited, I only saw TWO girls with Tattoos.........

I find the hotels in Angeles expensive compared with Pattaya. I stayed at Orchid Inn, which was 2750 Pesos a night, or about 2050 Baht. There are many hotels of equivent standard in Pattaya for less money. In fact I can get the same quality in Udon Thani for 700 Baht and a room twice the size!!

I am informed that with the new Expressway from AC to Subic Bay, it about a hour away to get to the sea. Before It was 2-3 hours by rutted road.

Yes, I have been considering the SRRV "Lifetime" retirement visa for less money than I need for one years bank account proof in Thailand for my Retirement extension.

[Mobi]

I stayed at Orchid Inn, which was 2750 Pesos a night, or about 2050 Baht.

Today's internet published rates for the Orchid Inn are 1,600 Pesos for a standard room, up to 3,000 Pesos for a large family room. Not bad value.

[MeetJohnDoe]

Am I right in assuming that means few, if any, Russians?

I have been going to AC for more than a decade and never noticed any till this most recent trip (most recent before this one was 2 years ago). This time there were definitely noticeable numbers of Russian men carousing around town.

Also of note, for the first time, there were a few Euro couples in town as well (never seen before)...probably there to spice-up their marriages on the advice of a marriage counselor

[MeetJohnDoe]

You only have to read the OP's report that all the bars and hotels were overflowing, to know they must be doing something right, as opposed to Pattaya, where bars are going out of business every day, and many of those remaining are increasingly resorting to scamming and extorting their customers in a desperate attempt to keep afloat. BTW when I went to AC back in August, we omitted to book a hotel in advance and had a lot of trouble finding rooms, and this was on a Wednesday.

Very well put Mobi I am not going to get into a pissing-match with anyone over which place is "better." They are each different and fun in their own way (that's why I like them both)...and each has their strengths and weaknesses. I will just say that like others, I live in Pattaya but I like to visit Angeles regularly.

Incidentally, has anyone been to the beaches at Subic Bay? I have heard they are nice, with their own collection of bars.

I have been to Subic for scuba diving, the beaches, and the bars. The beaches there are small and not very scenic. They are not on open oceanic coastline but the interior rim of a very large and somewhat polluted bay and the sand is sorta dirty and oily. The hotels and resorts run the gammut from cheap dives to comfortable resorts. The main foreign tourist area is the Bario Baretta and Baloy Beach areas, about a 10 minute ride from the actual Subic Bay port/city area.

There is also a new tollway connecting AC to Subic, which cuts the driving time from the old 1.5 hours to about half an hour. However, I would not go back to Subic...instead, a trip to Puerta Gallera or Boracay would be the way to go if one wanted to get in some beach time.

[chiang mai]

An excellent trip report, thank you for loads of useful information.

Edit: Any issues regarding personal security? It's long been suggested that the PI is more dangerous than Thailand but thankfully I have no evidence of either.

[MeetJohnDoe]

Any issues regarding personal security? It's long been suggested that the PI is more dangerous than Thailand...

I think most would agree that the PI is in general more dangerous than LOS. IMO, this is primarily an economic phenomenon...poverty being much greater in the PI leads to a higher level of petty crime and home/hotel/business burglaries. (For the first time visitor, the prevalence of multiple armed (often with shotguns..not just side-arms) security guards at most businesses {like fast-food outlets} is something of a shock.) That being said, I, like you, have never had any problems in either country and have never felt unsafe wherever I have gone in a decade of travel in the Philippines.

Just use sensible precautions and you should be fine. Be alert to your wallet if you ride the jepneys (most pick-pocket attempts seem to occur there) and don't go wandering off the main tourist strip at nite.