First Refusal, Not Satisfied My Girlfriend Will Leave The Uk. Please Advise!

[MrRubee]

Hello All,

I would like to start by saying thanks to everyone who has posted information on this forum. It proved very helpful and informative when my girlfriend and I were applying for her visa to the UK.

This is our first time and although we compiled a very good application unfortunately it was refused on the grounds that there was not enough evidence to suggest that my girlfriend would leave the UK at the end of her stay. Due to my girlfriends situation this was my main concern but I had learnt from this forum that evidence of our relationship would be enough to convince them that she would not overstay and jeopardise our future together.

Although a Thai citizen my girlfriend is Lisu from North of Chaing Mai and is not subject to the same schooling etc. as Thai people. She has no job, savings and personal assets.

This is what I wrote in my letter of sponsorship:

Intention for xxxx to leave the UK (See section 2)

Up until xxxx was 23 she lived with her family in Chiang Dow, Thailand. Her family are farmers and this is how she made her living. She moved to Chiang Mai with some money she had saved along with some funds her mother had given her (who now lives in Pai). Around 6 months after xxxxx moved to Chiang Mai we met. During the 6 months before we meet xxxxxhad tried to find work but found it incredibly difficult due to her lack of education and I have been supporting her financially since I returned to the UK in November 2007. Unfortunately this means that xxxxx is unemployed and does not have a job to return to, also her savings have been used in the time between moving to Chiang Mai and when I started to support her.

However, I trust that the evidence for our relationship together will be enough to guarantee that xxxx will return to Thailand after her visit. As mentioned above xxxx and I plan to marry and settle in the UK after this visit. We both understand the detrimental effect that over staying her visa would cause to our relationship and future plans. Overstaying a visa carries harsh penalties and could result in her being banned from entering the UK in the future. Obviously this would result in us not being able to marry and settle in the UK, neither xxxx nor I would wish for this to happen. xxxx will return to Thailand at the end of her visa, we will then marry and apply for a settlement visa for her to return to the UK early 2010. All this will not be possible if she overstays her initial Visitor Visa, we are both incredibly aware of this fact.

Also I plan to return to Thailand with xxxxx for another two weeks at the end of her stay in September 2009. I will purchase the flights once a visa has been granted.

This is the refusal:

You are a first time visitor to the UK and don’t appear to have ever before travelled outside your country of origin. It is therefore only appropriate that I consider the evidence of you economic, professional and family circumstances in Thailand to help put the nature of your intentions into context. You are single person of working age, with no assets, ties or property, which might encourage your presence in your country. You are unemployed and it's not evident how you supported yourself in Thailand prior to your sponsor's financial remittances. I am not satisfied, under these circumstances that you are socially and economically well settled in your country. Accordingly, I am not satisfied that you intend to leave the UK at the end of the period of the visit, as stated by you.

Now, I think that maybe if she had written a letter in the same context as what I had written in my letter of sponsorship may of helped. Also bank records of the time she was earning money working with her family. However I thought that this would be irrelevant as she is currently unemployed and doesn’t have this income anymore. Also does evidence of family property help? Her brother still runs a small farm in Chiang Dow.

I've been told appeals are lengthy and I fail to see at present what else I can do to prove my girlfriend will leave the UK. Please could you advise as to what else I can supply if I appeal or reapply for a holiday visa. Also do I have to wait a period of time before reapplying?

Thanks for reading this lengthy post.

Kind Regards,

Nathan

Edited February 11, 2009 by MrRubee

[Eff1n2ret]

"You are single person of working age, with no assets, ties or property, which might encourage your presence in your country. You are unemployed....."

.....All the classic reasons for refusing a first-time applicant, against which all you can stack up are your expressions of good intention. Remember it's the applicant's circumstances and intentions that are paramount, and the ECO has no way of knowing what an unattached 23-year-old with no reason to return will decide to do once he/she arrives in the West. Experience suggests that many of the Thai women who are arrested in the UK as illegals with no evidence of their identity give some story about having been facilitated here by a boyfriend who doesn't seem to be around any more.

As you're not a family member she's unlikely to have a right of appeal against refusal of a visit visa. If you're planning to get married next year I think you should get in as many visits to her as you can afford and start planning for a spouse application, or maybe fiancee application if she wants to see what the UK is like before committing to marriage and life here

[MrRubee]

Thanks for the reply!

I have never really thought of it from the point of view that a relationship could end during the visit, which certainly adds a new angle to it all. A fancee visa sounds like a good option but I did want to see how she got on in England and to meet my family and friends before marriage, if we were to do a fiancee application would we have to plan a wedding and show evidence of when and where we are marring? In essence committing to marriage before?

Financially I’m ok but due to work commitments I can only travel every 6 months for short periods so we can't spend any real time together so a holiday visa would be ideal really. I go back to Thailand in April for 2 weeks after I had planned to return with my girlfriend, any advice on maybe reapplying when I go back to Thailand? Would it be too soon after our first application? And what do you think the chances of a yes will be given if we provided details of what she was doing before we meet (which seems irrelevant but they have made a point of it), family ties/ assets and maybe if she wrote a letter herself explaining her situation, i.e. being from a farming family with little education etc.?

[mariner29]

Unless you satisfy his concerns you will not get a Tourist visa maybe you should of considered a fiancee visa.

[CharlieB]

Hello All,

I would like to start by saying thanks to everyone who has posted information on this forum. It proved very helpful and informative when my girlfriend and I were applying for her visa to the UK.

This is our first time and although we compiled a very good application unfortunately it was refused on the grounds that there was not enough evidence to suggest that my girlfriend would leave the UK at the end of her stay. Due to my girlfriends situation this was my main concern but I had learnt from this forum that evidence of our relationship would be enough to convince them that she would not overstay and jeopardise our future together.

Although a Thai citizen my girlfriend is Lisu from North of Chaing Mai and is not subject to the same schooling etc. as Thai people. She has no job, savings and personal assets.

This is what I wrote in my letter of sponsorship:

Intention for xxxx to leave the UK (See section 2)

Up until xxxx was 23 she lived with her family in Chiang Dow, Thailand. Her family are farmers and this is how she made her living. She moved to Chiang Mai with some money she had saved along with some funds her mother had given her (who now lives in Pai). Around 6 months after xxxxx moved to Chiang Mai we met. During the 6 months before we meet xxxxxhad tried to find work but found it incredibly difficult due to her lack of education and I have been supporting her financially since I returned to the UK in November 2007. Unfortunately this means that xxxxx is unemployed and does not have a job to return to, also her savings have been used in the time between moving to Chiang Mai and when I started to support her.

However, I trust that the evidence for our relationship together will be enough to guarantee that xxxx will return to Thailand after her visit. As mentioned above xxxx and I plan to marry and settle in the UK after this visit. We both understand the detrimental effect that over staying her visa would cause to our relationship and future plans. Overstaying a visa carries harsh penalties and could result in her being banned from entering the UK in the future. Obviously this would result in us not being able to marry and settle in the UK, neither xxxx nor I would wish for this to happen. xxxx will return to Thailand at the end of her visa, we will then marry and apply for a settlement visa for her to return to the UK early 2010. All this will not be possible if she overstays her initial Visitor Visa, we are both incredibly aware of this fact.

Also I plan to return to Thailand with xxxxx for another two weeks at the end of her stay in September 2009. I will purchase the flights once a visa has been granted.

This is the refusal:

You are a first time visitor to the UK and don't appear to have ever before travelled outside your country of origin. It is therefore only appropriate that I consider the evidence of you economic, professional and family circumstances in Thailand to help put the nature of your intentions into context. You are single person of working age, with no assets, ties or property, which might encourage your presence in your country. You are unemployed and it's not evident how you supported yourself in Thailand prior to your sponsor's financial remittances. I am not satisfied, under these circumstances that you are socially and economically well settled in your country. Accordingly, I am not satisfied that you intend to leave the UK at the end of the period of the visit, as stated by you.

Now, I think that maybe if she had written a letter in the same context as what I had written in my letter of sponsorship may of helped. Also bank records of the time she was earning money working with her family. However I thought that this would be irrelevant as she is currently unemployed and doesn't have this income anymore. Also does evidence of family property help? Her brother still runs a small farm in Chiang Dow.

I've been told appeals are lengthy and I fail to see at present what else I can do to prove my girlfriend will leave the UK. Please could you advise as to what else I can supply if I appeal or reapply for a holiday visa. Also do I have to wait a period of time before reapplying?

Thanks for reading this lengthy post.

Kind Regards,

Nathan

I think you have to be realistic here. You have been sustaining her finiancially since the end of 2007, so she has no job to go back to, obviously owns no land/house and it looks like you didn't detail any close family connections in Thailand. The embassy have to go on what is provided and they have a young girl with no other means than those provided by you and a letter in which you say that you both realise how serious overstaying is. This is never going to get a visit visa as there is absolutely no concrete reasons given to them for her to return to Thailand. Knowing it's a barrier to future visas is not a reason to return.

Has she been doing any job in Thailand since Nov 2007? Even a simple cleaning job in a hotel or something would have meant she could maybe get an employers letter saying she had to return. I also note that the length of stay you intended for her in the UK was almost the full 6 months, ie some time in April to September, which is not advisable for a first visa. With no real proof of reason to return and expecting almost 6 months in the UK, you were on to a loser when you applied.

Unless she can get a job, and by this I mean a proper job, where she has an employer that will vouch for her and write her a letter saying she will have a job when she returns, you're probably not going to overcome their judgement that she has no real reason to return to Thailand. As said above, if you intend to marry her anyway, with little or no reason to return the best bet is to go for a settlement visa of some kind. Either marry in Thailand and get a spouse visa or get a fiance visa. If you get the fiance visa, she doesn't have to get married, but if you do want to marry in the future, you'd need a good reason for not getting married.

For the Fiance visa, you can't actually book a civil ceremony in the UK without her having the correct visa (catch 22), so you'd probably have to rely on booking a place for a reception, providing written proof of this + some other details, ie when & where. My wife came in on a fiance visa, but we hadn't organised anything before she came and we still got the visa. You'll also need to provide lots of proof of your relationship, ie phone records, letter, photos, hotel bookings, flights details, letters, all the usual stuff to prove you've been in a relationship and have met each other. Also provide proof of your ability to provide for her in the UK and that you have a place to live. It's better to go overboard on the proof of everything, don't think they may not be interested in something and regret it later.

[MrRubee]

I think you have to be realistic here. You have been sustaining her finiancially since the end of 2007, so she has no job to go back to, obviously owns no land/house and it looks like you didn't detail any close family connections in Thailand. The embassy have to go on what is provided and they have a young girl with no other means than those provided by you and a letter in which you say that you both realise how serious overstaying is. This is never going to get a visit visa as there is absolutely no concrete reasons given to them for her to return to Thailand. Knowing it's a barrier to future visas is not a reason to return.

Has she been doing any job in Thailand since Nov 2007? Even a simple cleaning job in a hotel or something would have meant she could maybe get an employers letter saying she had to return. I also note that the length of stay you intended for her in the UK was almost the full 6 months, ie some time in April to September, which is not advisable for a first visa. With no real proof of reason to return and expecting almost 6 months in the UK, you were on to a loser when you applied.

Unless she can get a job, and by this I mean a proper job, where she has an employer that will vouch for her and write her a letter saying she will have a job when she returns, you're probably not going to overcome their judgement that she has no real reason to return to Thailand. As said above, if you intend to marry her anyway, with little or no reason to return the best bet is to go for a settlement visa of some kind. Either marry in Thailand and get a spouse visa or get a fiance visa. If you get the fiance visa, she doesn't have to get married, but if you do want to marry in the future, you'd need a good reason for not getting married.

For the Fiance visa, you can't actually book a civil ceremony in the UK without her having the correct visa (catch 22), so you'd probably have to rely on booking a place for a reception, providing written proof of this + some other details, ie when & where. My wife came in on a fiance visa, but we hadn't organised anything before she came and we still got the visa. You'll also need to provide lots of proof of your relationship, ie phone records, letter, photos, hotel bookings, flights details, letters, all the usual stuff to prove you've been in a relationship and have met each other. Also provide proof of your ability to provide for her in the UK and that you have a place to live. It's better to go overboard on the proof of everything, don't think they may not be interested in something and regret it later.

Thanks for your time CharlieB, in light of everything I was a little naïve…. but hey I'm young and it was our first time. I'm thinking a fake wedding sounds like way to much trouble for my liking. However, I've been speaking with my friend who I went travelling with and is now husband to my girlfriends cousin. We met them both together but my friend had the financial luxury of staying Thailand a YEAR longer than I could, so I wanted a holiday visa to spend a bit more time together before doing the same. Anyway, I'm thinking of now simply marrying when I go back in April and applying for a spouse visa. We would have done this anyway after the holiday visa. My friend has givin me all the advise I need.

Maybe young and naive again....but maybe not. Just one thing, could I do this in April after we applied for a holiday visa this month?

[Brigante7]

Unless you satisfy his concerns you will not get a Tourist visa maybe you should of considered a fiancee visa.

That's what happened to my g/friend (Now wife), she was refused 2 tourist visas and in the end got a fiance visa.

[Chuckler]

Thanks for your time CharlieB, in light of everything I was a little naïve…. but hey I'm young and it was our first time. I'm thinking a fake wedding sounds like way to much trouble for my liking. However, I've been speaking with my friend who I went travelling with and is now husband to my girlfriends cousin. We met them both together but my friend had the financial luxury of staying Thailand a YEAR longer than I could, so I wanted a holiday visa to spend a bit more time together before doing the same. Anyway, I'm thinking of now simply marrying when I go back in April and applying for a spouse visa. We would have done this anyway after the holiday visa. My friend has givin me all the advise I need.

Maybe young and naive again....but maybe not. Just one thing, could I do this in April after we applied for a holiday visa this month?

I can only offer advice based on my experience applying for a spouse visa to Australia, and as an Australian, marrying a Thai. But here goes:

Getting married here isn't too difficult, but doing this and getting the paperwork together for a spouse visa is going to make for a busy holiday. Check whether this applies to Brits, but I think it will: First you have to go to your embassy and fill out a statutory declaration of your intention to marry, saying that you are eligible for marrying someone. You will need to know the exact spelling of your girlfriend's transliterated English name and her ID card number. Then your embassy will witness it, and you'll need to get it translated into Thai. This then needs to be lodged with the Thai government office that the translation is valid. This takes a few days, and a fee is payable. It must be done in Bangkok. A tip: if you have more money than time, I signed a power of attorney for my lawyers in Bangkok, who did the translation, lodged the form on my behalf, and collected it and returned it to me in Chiang Mai. Certainly much easier than staying in Bangkok for an undetermined period of time if you're based upcountry. Then you go to the Amphur office. If you have any children they will want to see the birth certificate for the children even to marry you. You will need your passport, she will need her ID card.

Also for Australia, we needed a police clearance certificate. This is free, but will take 14 days to process. Your partner needs to do the heavy lifting on this, and it must be done in Bangkok. They will mail it to you upcountry for 40 baht. We also required a medical for Mint's spouse visa, we had this done at Sriphat clinic at Suan Dok hostpial in Chiang Mai. It cost about 2000 baht.

The paperwork is moderately amazing in the required quantity. We also needed statutory declarations from Australian citizens which took some organizing to get together. It'll be a busy holiday, that's for sure. Good luck!

[CharlieB]

I think you have to be realistic here. You have been sustaining her finiancially since the end of 2007, so she has no job to go back to, obviously owns no land/house and it looks like you didn't detail any close family connections in Thailand. The embassy have to go on what is provided and they have a young girl with no other means than those provided by you and a letter in which you say that you both realise how serious overstaying is. This is never going to get a visit visa as there is absolutely no concrete reasons given to them for her to return to Thailand. Knowing it's a barrier to future visas is not a reason to return.

Has she been doing any job in Thailand since Nov 2007? Even a simple cleaning job in a hotel or something would have meant she could maybe get an employers letter saying she had to return. I also note that the length of stay you intended for her in the UK was almost the full 6 months, ie some time in April to September, which is not advisable for a first visa. With no real proof of reason to return and expecting almost 6 months in the UK, you were on to a loser when you applied.

Unless she can get a job, and by this I mean a proper job, where she has an employer that will vouch for her and write her a letter saying she will have a job when she returns, you're probably not going to overcome their judgement that she has no real reason to return to Thailand. As said above, if you intend to marry her anyway, with little or no reason to return the best bet is to go for a settlement visa of some kind. Either marry in Thailand and get a spouse visa or get a fiance visa. If you get the fiance visa, she doesn't have to get married, but if you do want to marry in the future, you'd need a good reason for not getting married.

For the Fiance visa, you can't actually book a civil ceremony in the UK without her having the correct visa (catch 22), so you'd probably have to rely on booking a place for a reception, providing written proof of this + some other details, ie when & where. My wife came in on a fiance visa, but we hadn't organised anything before she came and we still got the visa. You'll also need to provide lots of proof of your relationship, ie phone records, letter, photos, hotel bookings, flights details, letters, all the usual stuff to prove you've been in a relationship and have met each other. Also provide proof of your ability to provide for her in the UK and that you have a place to live. It's better to go overboard on the proof of everything, don't think they may not be interested in something and regret it later.

Thanks for your time CharlieB, in light of everything I was a little naïve…. but hey I'm young and it was our first time. I'm thinking a fake wedding sounds like way to much trouble for my liking. However, I've been speaking with my friend who I went travelling with and is now husband to my girlfriends cousin. We met them both together but my friend had the financial luxury of staying Thailand a YEAR longer than I could, so I wanted a holiday visa to spend a bit more time together before doing the same. Anyway, I'm thinking of now simply marrying when I go back in April and applying for a spouse visa. We would have done this anyway after the holiday visa. My friend has givin me all the advise I need.

Maybe young and naive again....but maybe not. Just one thing, could I do this in April after we applied for a holiday visa this month?

I didn't mention a fake wedding anywhere. I said you could apply & get a fiance visa, but then choose not marry, which would give you the 6 months in the UK like a visit visa. You would then have to provide a good reason for not marrying later if you applied for another fiance visa/spouse. I then said that you can't book a wedding in the UK without the fiance visa, so you could provide other proof of the potential wedding in your application.

I see no reason why you couldn't apply again in April for whatever visa you choose to pursue.

[CharlieB]

I think you have to be realistic here. You have been sustaining her finiancially since the end of 2007, so she has no job to go back to, obviously owns no land/house and it looks like you didn't detail any close family connections in Thailand. The embassy have to go on what is provided and they have a young girl with no other means than those provided by you and a letter in which you say that you both realise how serious overstaying is. This is never going to get a visit visa as there is absolutely no concrete reasons given to them for her to return to Thailand. Knowing it's a barrier to future visas is not a reason to return.

Has she been doing any job in Thailand since Nov 2007? Even a simple cleaning job in a hotel or something would have meant she could maybe get an employers letter saying she had to return. I also note that the length of stay you intended for her in the UK was almost the full 6 months, ie some time in April to September, which is not advisable for a first visa. With no real proof of reason to return and expecting almost 6 months in the UK, you were on to a loser when you applied.

Unless she can get a job, and by this I mean a proper job, where she has an employer that will vouch for her and write her a letter saying she will have a job when she returns, you're probably not going to overcome their judgement that she has no real reason to return to Thailand. As said above, if you intend to marry her anyway, with little or no reason to return the best bet is to go for a settlement visa of some kind. Either marry in Thailand and get a spouse visa or get a fiance visa. If you get the fiance visa, she doesn't have to get married, but if you do want to marry in the future, you'd need a good reason for not getting married.

For the Fiance visa, you can't actually book a civil ceremony in the UK without her having the correct visa (catch 22), so you'd probably have to rely on booking a place for a reception, providing written proof of this + some other details, ie when & where. My wife came in on a fiance visa, but we hadn't organised anything before she came and we still got the visa. You'll also need to provide lots of proof of your relationship, ie phone records, letter, photos, hotel bookings, flights details, letters, all the usual stuff to prove you've been in a relationship and have met each other. Also provide proof of your ability to provide for her in the UK and that you have a place to live. It's better to go overboard on the proof of everything, don't think they may not be interested in something and regret it later.

Thanks for your time CharlieB, in light of everything I was a little naïve…. but hey I'm young and it was our first time. I'm thinking a fake wedding sounds like way to much trouble for my liking. However, I've been speaking with my friend who I went travelling with and is now husband to my girlfriends cousin. We met them both together but my friend had the financial luxury of staying Thailand a YEAR longer than I could, so I wanted a holiday visa to spend a bit more time together before doing the same. Anyway, I'm thinking of now simply marrying when I go back in April and applying for a spouse visa. We would have done this anyway after the holiday visa. My friend has givin me all the advise I need.

Maybe young and naive again....but maybe not. Just one thing, could I do this in April after we applied for a holiday visa this month?

I didn't mention a fake wedding anywhere. I said you could apply & get a fiance visa, but then choose not marry, which would give you the 6 months in the UK like a visit visa. You would then have to provide a good reason for not marrying later if you applied for another fiance visa/spouse. I then said that you can't book a wedding in the UK without the fiance visa, so you could provide other proof of the potential wedding in your application.

I see no reason why you couldn't apply again in April for whatever visa you choose to pursue.

This guy is never going to get a visit visa for his girlfriend in their current situation. They are never going to be able to get the embassy to agree that she has any reason to return, she has no job, no money, no assets whatsoever. Would you rather we tell him lies and advise him to repeatedly apply for visit visa's that he's not going to get? He's either going to have to be happy visiting her in Thailand when he can, get her to get a job/assets of some kind to change her validity for a visit visa, or change his plans and marry her sooner than he wants. I'm not advising him to lie. I am advising him that the only way he would get a visa for this girl to get into the UK in their present situation is to apply for one that does not include the need to provide proof that she will return to Thailand, because they don't have any.

Nobody is forcing him down this route. Yes, he wants a visit visa, but he's not going to get one. I'd like a million pounds, but nobody is going to hand it to me. His primary reason for the visit visa is to see if his girlfriend would like it in the UK, but it is unlikely he will ever get a visit visa for her without some serious changes to her circumstances. His girlfriend has no evidence that she will return to Thailand after her time in the UK is up, so no visa.

I'm not telling him to lie on a visa application. I'm pointing out to him that if he applies for a fiance visa and she comes over and doesn't like the UK, then she is not legally obliged to get married. She can return to Thailand without getting married, nobody is going to do anything if he does this. I was pointing this out as he had concerns about the relationship possibly ending in the first 6 months in the UK. The fiance visa will give him 6 months for her to stay with him and in this time they can decide to marry or not. If they don't that's fine, but they'll have to provide a good reason for not marrying on the first fiance visa if they subsequently apply for another fiance visa.

I'm not sure what your problem is with visas, but instead of flaming people offering advise to this guy, how about coming up with your own? The op is in a dead end situation at the moment and if you have some fantastic advice, I'm sure he'd love to hear it, but at the moment all you're doing is shouting down others offering advice.

[ubonjoe]

I'm not telling him to lie on a visa application. I'm pointing out to him that if he applies for a fiance visa and she comes over and doesn't like the UK, then she is not legally obliged to get married. She can return to Thailand without getting married, nobody is going to do anything if he does this. I was pointing this out as he had concerns about the relationship possibly ending in the first 6 months in the UK. The fiance visa will give him 6 months for her to stay with him and in this time they can decide to marry or not. If they don't that's fine, but they'll have to provide a good reason for not marrying on the first fiance visa if they subsequently apply for another fiance visa.

I am no expert on UK visas.

But from what I have read I agree that the fiance visa is the best and probably his only option.

As said it is not a lie if you get the visa and then decide not to marry thats the entire purpsoe of the 6 month time frame they give.

If they can live together in the UK for those 6 months then they probably can make it together for the long term.

Edit: Since I deleted sevral posts and replies to them my post is on the bottom of page. So I am just adding this to it.

Defaming of other members is not allowed. Please keep it civil.

[Chivas]

I'm not telling him to lie on a visa application. I'm pointing out to him that if he applies for a fiance visa and she comes over and doesn't like the UK, then she is not legally obliged to get married. She can return to Thailand without getting married, nobody is going to do anything if he does this. I was pointing this out as he had concerns about the relationship possibly ending in the first 6 months in the UK. The fiance visa will give him 6 months for her to stay with him and in this time they can decide to marry or not. If they don't that's fine, but they'll have to provide a good reason for not marrying on the first fiance visa if they subsequently apply for another fiance visa.

I am no expert on UK visas.

But from what I have read I agree that the fiance visa is the best and probably his only option.

As said it is not a lie if you get the visa and then decide not to marry thats the entire purpsoe of the 6 month time frame they give.

If they can live together in the UK for those 6 months then they probably can make it together for the long term.

Edit: Since I deleted sevral posts and replies to them my post is on the bottom of page. So I am just adding this to it.

Defaming of other members is allowed. Please keep it civil.

What on earth is going on here ??

Wheres the post detailing the way to obtain Tourist visas by telling the truth, written by myself ??

"Defaming of other members is allowed" ????????????? Please keep it civil ???

Chivas

[ubonjoe]

[

What on earth is going on here ??

Wheres the post detailing the way to obtain Tourist visas by telling the truth, written by myself ??

"Defaming of other members is allowed" ????????????? Please keep it civil ???

Chivas

Thnks for pointing out my typo.

You can post again but be more carefull in what you write.

[Chivas]

[

What on earth is going on here ??

Wheres the post detailing the way to obtain Tourist visas by telling the truth, written by myself ??

"Defaming of other members is allowed" ????????????? Please keep it civil ???

Chivas

Thnks for pointing out my typo.

You can post again but be more carefull in what you write.

If the OP would like the information I freely posted, feel free to let me know and will forward the information to you.

Chivas

[bruceboy]

Isn't a compelling reason to return to Thailand the main factor that is looked at?

[CharlieB]

Isn't a compelling reason to return to Thailand the main factor that is looked at?

For visit visas it's one of the things that most people are refused on..

[DostyTheCat]

I have been through just about every application/refusal/appeal known to man!

Once a holiday visa refusal has been lodged there is only ONE way forward.

You can do whatever you want - the Embassy are supposed to NOT take tourist visa refusals into account on any future applications, but the truth is they DO.

The only way forward is to carry on the relationship from a distance for a while longer, put in more visits to Thailand, support her financially, keep ALL records of emails, phone calls, money transfers, hotel receipts (in joint names), flights etc etc.

Apply for a finacee visa.

It doesn't matter if she has a low paid job in Thailand, or even an average paid job.... the national average wage is almost irrelevant to what can be earned in the UK. Total waste of time. The Embassy will just state that the job in Thailand is so low paid that it is no incentive to return anyway.

SET A DATE for the wedding LESS than the 6 month fiancee visa limit.

MAKE SURE that she WANTS to marry in the UK and states this in her interview. They will ask why she does not want to marry in Thailand. If she says she does want to marry in Thailand - she will be refused the Visa.

As has been pointed out, the fiancee visa does not state that you Have to marry - but that INTENTION to marry is there. If you don't marry in the 6 months - she will just return.

However, if you imply ANY hesitation - the visa will be refused.

Bottom line - you have to COMMIT - both of you!

DON'T get upset with Fair or unfair. This world ain't fair! No point fighting that point!!

There are many single, lonely, unhappy people out here who are full of "what if's" and failure to take risks.

I commited, took a risk - and I was paid back a hundred fold.

My missus has been in the UK for 3 years - and I am a very happy and lucky guy!!!!

Took me 2 and a half years to get her here - but worth it all the way. Plus, by the time she came, it had taken so much work, that I knew we both wanted to stay together!!!

[alant]

hi,

I have not digested all of detail here but I too had an application for a visit to the UK refused for my other half. In this case we were taking a holiday, myself, my partner (wife without papers etc) and her mother including seeing my partners sister and family. I filled in all visas, my partners was refused whilst her mothers was granted (therefore the trip was not possible). resons included uncertainty about return, financuial viability and a lack of evidence that we were an item. This despite the fact that we had provided evidence of our relationship and copies of our co ownership of our property valued at 10 million baht etc.

i came to the conclusion that they did not really read the application which is made worse by the fact that you do not see the visa staff on application you see a 3rd party. Even worse they smugly tell you you had every chance to get help, this is not true as they did not answer my phone calls (the 3rd party agancy you apply to).

an appeal takes forever and although i lodged an appeal i also made a further application with more detail itemising why the last one was refused.

this resulted in a face to face meeting for my partner and a visa. we had our trip and have now added another visa without problem

and the moral is? who knows

[britmaveric]

Just wait a year - have the lady get a job then re-apply. Shows responsibility and will be better for her in the long run. It might put a cramp on your plans, but if smth is worth waiting for then you do what you have to do.

[NanLaew]

I wish you good luck on your fiancee visa application. As stated elsewhere, it's not a requirement that you do marry as it has 6-month validity. The way I see it, if an old-fashioned 'engagement' is not already on the table in your personal commitments, then how can the third-parties evaluating the visa application even consider some far-off tentative marriage plan as a viable reason to allow her in?

PS, what's the significance of stating the applicant is Lisu? Does she have a Lisu passport? No?

I guess this is just another version of 'my girlfriend is different'.

Edited February 15, 2009 by NanLaew

[ubonjoe]

Just did a clean up of this topic. Deleted off topic and improper posts and replies that included quotes of those posts.

Now for my own comment.

It is very difficult for person in Thailand that does not have the education or training to find a job that would be good enough to satisfy most requirements to get a visa from many countries.

Does anybody think that a job that pays 3 or 4 thousand Baht a month that is paid in cash would be enough proof or even be able provide a letter saying they had a job to come back to,

[MrRubee]

Haha!!!!! A lots happened since I last looked! Thanks to everyone who has posted. Sorry CarlieB 'fake wedding' was a little strong. What I meant was booking the reception and providing evidence of a planned wedding seems a bit much but I understood what you were getting at.

Anyway, we have been discussing marriage and we will still go ahead with getting married in Thailand in November/ December time despite the visa set back. I will see her in April but it would mean another lengthy separation so I haven't ruled out applying for a fiancee visa to still bring her back in April.

If I applied for a fiancee visa would a good ground not to get married be that we changed our minds and wanted to get married in Thailand instead? This would mean she can stay in England for 6 months, then we can go back to Thailand, marry and apply for a settlement visa. What other eviance of a wedding would I need to provide. I would rather keep a 'wedding' to just signing some papers in Thailand. Correct me if I'm wrong but it all seems allot easier than doing it in England. If applying for this kind of visa means getting married in England I would rather not go down this route and just marry in Thailand in November.

Thanks for all your advise but I would like to quote Dosty, this is how I have based all my decisions..... best advise given so far!

There are many single, lonely, unhappy people out here who are full of "what if's" and failure to take risks.

I commited, took a risk - and I was paid back a hundred fold.

My missus has been in the UK for 3 years - and I am a very happy and lucky guy!!!!

Took me 2 and a half years to get her here - but worth it all the way. Plus, by the time she came, it had taken so much work, that I knew we both wanted to stay together!!!

Edited February 17, 2009 by MrRubee

[ubonjoe]

I think you will find getting married in Thailand is little harder than signing a few papers.

See this webpage for inof:http://ukinthailand.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/living-in-thailand/how-register-marriage

Edit: Pasted in wrong link, It's good now.

[altcloud]

Lisu have a very laid back lifestyle.

I was there for a week. my wife's a Lisu too..

Agree that you should do more visits. it's straining and costly. but if you want to keep this relationship, there are lots of things to be done.

Best of luck.

[MrRubee]

Hi, sorry the link doesn't seem to work.

From speaking with my friend it seems he got married in a week. He got a letter from the embassy saying that he was single and free to marry. He took this along with his wife and ID card to the equivalent of the town hall from where she was born, didn't pre book anything and got married. He then applied for a settlement visa and they now live in England. Please let me know if there's anything I'm missing but It sounds pretty stright forward.

April will be my forth time visiting her, I have no consern about proving my relationship and it appears that from the refusal letter that the the only reason she was refused is that there was no evidance to suggest she would return. If there was an issue with the proof of our relationship would they not have mentioned it on the letter?

Please could someone advise on my questions about a fiancee visa (see above)????.....Thanks!

[7by7]

If I applied for a fiancee visa would a good ground not to get married be that we changed our minds and wanted to get married in Thailand instead?

Possibly; basically you would need to show a satisfactory reason as to why you did not marry in the UK during the life of the fiance visa.

we have been discussing marriage and we will still go ahead with getting married in Thailand in November/ December.......If applying for this kind of visa means getting married in England I would rather not go down this route and just marry in Thailand in November.

Which seems to me to be the best option. Apart from any other considerations, a fiance visa currently costs £515, with an increase in the pipeline!

Marrying in Thailand is relatively simple, if you just want to do the legal bit. The ceremonial wedding is a lot more complicated.

See General Guidance for British Nationals wishing to marry in Thailand from the RTE in London and Guidance for British nationals wishing to marry in Thailand from the British embassy in Bangkok.

[yaketyak]

A couple of years ago i posted here that i thought our immigration system was wrong in that so many failed visit visa applicants are FORCED to go for the fiancee visa in order to achieve their aims... which is to get the Thai girl friend here on a visit visa. They cannot get the visit visa , like our friend on this post , so they are advised by others to go for the eaier to get fiancee visa.

Many reply saying they hadn't considered this but then go along with it . Many then get their wish.

Effectivally they have been forced to get married (fiancee visa = getting married soon afterwards) as their only alternative to getting the loved one here on any terms.

When i posted then my post was met with a lot of hostility saying i was wrong and no-one is being forced to get married bla bla bla.

However there is no doubt i was right then and am still right now.

This obsession with the Home Office about Thai overstayers working here and costing us taxpayers money seems out of proportion to me with the actual damage (if indeed there is ANY damage to us in them overstaying..i am not convinced there is) they cause. I am sure they cost far less to the taxpayer than Home Secretaries claiming £100000's in dubious second home claims.

[7by7]

I am confused by the above post; nobody is being forced to apply for a fiance visa. The OP has stated that they planned to marry and apply for settlement anyway.

One should always apply for the visa suited to one's intentions. Applying for a fiance visa when one has no intention of marrying once in the UK is a stupid thing to do and could easily lead to difficulties if one returns home and then later applies for settlement again.

In another thread the above poster advocates a 'tick box' system to decide visa applications. If such a system were in place then this applicant would still have been refused as she cannot tick all the boxes; she has no concrete reason to return.

[yaketyak]

I am confused by the above post; nobody is being forced to apply for a fiance visa. The OP has stated that they planned to marry and apply for settlement anyway.

One should always apply for the visa suited to one's intentions. Applying for a fiance visa when one has no intention of marrying once in the UK is a stupid thing to do and could easily lead to difficulties if one returns home and then later applies for settlement again.

In another thread the above poster advocates a 'tick box' system to decide visa applications. If such a system were in place then this applicant would still have been refused as she cannot tick all the boxes; she has no concrete reason to return.

Of course those with a brain reading my post will see that i never said anyone should get a fiancee visa and then not get married once here. I said many are looking to go for the fiancee visa when they never intended to do this originally. Naturally once here with a Fiancee visa they must of course go through with it ... hence the comment they are forced into marriage more quickly than may otherwise have happened.

As for the comment about the tick - box system , yes it may be that this particular applicant would have failed anyway, but if the criteria was crystal clear in the first place , the applicant and sponser would not have applied until they knew they could meet all requirements . Tick -box system is a fairer way to do it because it takes away the ability of the ECO to refuse those he/she regards on a personal level as undesirable , through prejudice or ignorance. The point being that ANYone should be entitled to visit the UK for say a holiday as long as they meet all the official criteria (and that includes those who the govt instructs the ECO's to keep out by refusing applications because of what the person may do for a job , rather than on the basis of the application in front of them)

Edited February 21, 2009 by yaketyak

[Richard W]

Anyway, I'm thinking of now simply marrying when I go back in April and applying for a spouse visa. We would have done this anyway after the holiday visa. My friend has givin me all the advise I need.

I don't know if the system is still in place, but my wife and I lodged her spouse visa application in late December 1998, we married in Bangkok in March 1999, my wife had her interview the same week, bought her ticket to England in the afternoon after the interview and flew to England together the next week. We could have had the interview in the first week in January, but that would not have fitted our marriage plan. The short wait would probably have been because my wife had already applied for a visitor's visa (and been rejected). Marrying in Chiang Dao would have strained the timetable.