This Is Starting To Pi$$ Me Off

EvilDrSomkid · February 16, 2009

I just finished reading a story on another Thailand based site. The owner always leaves some sort of comment after the story. You know what site it is.

What is really starting to piss me off is this assumption or so called red-flag that if a Thai woman can speak reasonable or good English, this is immediately suspicious and probably some kind of Freelancer or (ex-)BG.

What is it with some of these guys? There are PLENTY of Thai women that speak English very well and are not scam artists, freelancers, BGs or otherwise.

Many checklistz you see about characteristics that a (Thai) woman should have in order to qualify as good wife material mentions: None or minimal English ability. <deleted>? The MOST important thing for any relationship to succeed is to be able to communicate. And then some BS about how the man should first learn Thai to a reasonable level. Come on! If she can speak English then what's the problem?

My fiancee taught herself English because she wanted to expand her education and ability to communicate. That does help in Hotel Management. Not to mention when you deal with computers a lot and are interested in them. There are women in this country who are straight up and not after your money.

Some may scoff and place some condescending or insinuating comment after this. Like they have before...

Go ahead, it will just illustrate what kind of embittered and blinkered losers they are.

Maizefarmer · February 16, 2009

Well commented - actually listen carefully: doesn;t take a rocket scientist to quickly note the differance in the way the English is spoken to work out if its bar English or English learn't by way of schooling/education or - how shall I put it: the English spoken in a more conventional/professional employment enviroment.

.... not much different to the differance between how some ex-pats speak Thai - depends a lot on the enviroment in which they learn to speak it (!!).

Actually, most (alot?) of Thai girls can speak at least enough English (if they have finsihed high school) to get by a basic question or conversation in English - but many of them I find are cautious, and find it easier to say "no" than to get into an English conversation and get "caught" in a verbal situation that looks like it could take them out of their comfort zone.

... I have a pretty good idea who you are reffering to EvilDrSomkid - there is another way of looking at his comment: its more a reflection of the group of girls he assocaites with and is comfortable with, than it his of his knowledge of Thai women in general and their abilities!!!!

Edited February 16, 2009 by Maizefarmer

EvilDrSomkid · February 16, 2009

Well commented - actually listen carefully: doesn;t take a rocket scientist to quickly note the differance in the way the English is spoken to work out if its bar English or English learn't by way of schooling/education or - how shall I put it: the English spoken in a more conventional/professional employment enviroment.
.... not much different to the differance between how some ex-pats speak Thai - depends a lot on the enviroment in which they learn to speak it (!!).

Actually, most (alot?) of Thai girls can speak at least enough English (if they have finsihed high school) to get by a basic question or conversation in English - but many of them I find are cautious, and find it easier to say "no" than to get into an English conversation and get "caught" in a verbal situation that looks like it could take them out of their comfort zone.

... I have a pretty good idea who you are reffering to EvilDrSomkid - there is another way of looking at his comment: its more a reflection of the group of girls he assocaites with and is comfortable with, than it his of his knowledge of Thai women in general and their abilities!!!!

Maizefarmer, thank you for recognizing my gripe for what it is and who pissed me off.

What you say is common sense. However, as some one once said: common sense is not all that common. Especially with some of the meat heads and their antics spoken of on the site of above mentioned...character.

kiakaha · February 16, 2009

All the female thais in my office, some 30 of them, speak/read/write english from very competent to fluently.

My wife was born/raised/educated in the west.

Many young female thais have studied from high school thru to tertiary level in the west.

So many demographics represented in thailand that speak english well, i've only listed 3.

What site does this one eyed naivety originate from ? Another one of those illegally run work permit/income tax dodging ones

tw25rw · February 16, 2009

BGs have a distinctive English vocabulary that gives them away. They also have encyclopaedic knowledge of the hotels around the Sukhumvit bar areas.

teacup · February 16, 2009

If you don’t…… talk like one, act like one, and dress like one…..I don’t think she has anything to worry/concern what others are saying too much.

I don’t

Maizefarmer · February 16, 2009

Its a long and complicated subject - folk could fill up this entire forum with endless pages of opinion and experiance............

Maizefarmer · February 16, 2009

BGs have a distinctive English vocabulary that gives them away. They also have encyclopaedic knowledge of the hotels around the Sukhumvit bar areas.

!!!.... well said tw25rw.

MiG16 · February 16, 2009

certainly agree with the OP on the need to be able to communicate with each other in a relationship.

(personally I dont see why it should matter through which method their English is good or bad....)

but let me remind everyone that discussions of bar girls are against forum rules. so lets stay clear of that

cheers

thaiwanderer · February 16, 2009

Paranoia is a terrible thing.

There will always be people who assume she was / is 'working'.

Why does it matter?

game4shame · February 16, 2009

the OP should familiarise theirself with the term 'trolling'.

any post/topic suggesting all english speaking thai females are hookers is textbook bait.

Edited February 16, 2009 by game4shame

Mighty Mouse · February 16, 2009

Paranoia is a terrible thing.
There will always be people who assume she was / is 'working'.

Why does it matter?

It matters because it's totally inaccurate. It's a slur on a persons character.

On my second trip to Thailand I became friends with our female tour guide in Bangkok. She learned English at school and spoke it well. She now lives in Sydney working as an interpreter for the Australian Government. She would be horrified if people regarded her as a 'working girl' and so would I.

Edited February 16, 2009 by Mighty Mouse

NanLaew · February 16, 2009

^^ Exactly, the points (if any) of this thread appear only relevant to the 'doctor' and the 'farmer'. The doctor alludes to the fact that his partner is working professionally in the hospitality business; another assertion that 'my girlfriend is different' has thus been aired. Fantastic! The farmer suggests that by listening to a foreigner speaking Thai, he can tell if the speaker is a monger or a... non-monger. Amazing! The third batsman for the home team seems to have cornered the market in very competent, English-speaking local female office staff (he has all 30 of them) but hints that some other people doing internet 'business' here are somehow illegal. Shocking!

Maybe you guys can all PM each other and leave the broader forum bandwidth open for more relevant stuff.

Edited February 16, 2009 by NanLaew

WeeGB · February 16, 2009

I was on a bus from phetchabon to my local village, a few months ago. Two young schoolgirls were practicing their English, I was going to offer to help, but they spoke English far better than I do, (due to my northern accent). According to my wife, who recognised the uniforms, they went to a private school in Phetchabon. If these two girls are anything to go by, then the standard there must be VERY high.

Sad that an awful lot of people are so quick to judge others, I've always found the vast majority of Thai people very nice, and as with all societies, those who are prepared to work hard, get on in life.

Assuming that if a girl/woman speaks English, she must be/have been a working girl insults the huge majority of thai people who, in my experience, despise such girls.

One has to wonder why people who are so quick to denigrate the Thai people want to live here.

Maizefarmer · February 17, 2009

^^ Exactly, the points (if any) of this thread appear only relevant to the 'doctor' and the 'farmer'. The doctor alludes to the fact that his partner is working professionally in the hospitality business; another assertion that 'my girlfriend is different' has thus been aired. Fantastic! The farmer suggests that by listening to a foreigner speaking Thai, he can tell if the speaker is a monger or a... non-monger. Amazing! The third batsman for the home team seems to have cornered the market in very competent, English-speaking local female office staff (he has all 30 of them) but hints that some other people doing internet 'business' here are somehow illegal. Shocking!
Maybe you guys can all PM each other and leave the broader forum bandwidth open for more relevant stuff.

"...... thread appear only relevant to the 'doctor' and the 'farmer' " - and yourself, for reading it in the detail you obviously have, and then going to the effort to follow up with the contribution of your own.

What do you mean by a "monger" and "non-monger"

Edited February 17, 2009 by Maizefarmer

sassienie · February 17, 2009

the OP should familiarise theirself with the term 'trolling'.
any post/topic suggesting all english speaking thai females are hookers is textbook bait.

I disagree. Nothing wrong with mentioning something that is common knowledge and that is probably in the back of our minds anyway. So why not bring it out into the open?

There are many legit reasons why some Thai females speak good English.

Especially those who are employed in the professional industries such as Doctors, dentists, import & export, travel/tour services, restaurant staff/shop assistants who work in the main cities with many Farang customers and teachers.

Those who work in IT and perhaps learned English at schools and universities, would expect to have some sort of limited English language schools.

Also those who have been living or working abroad or have been or are in long term relationships or married to Farangs, would probably be able to speak good quality English.

But to be perfectly honest, any Thai girls that do not fall into the categories listed above, I would be highly suspicious of those who have good English speaking skills. Because it can only mean that they have had or are still having close associations with native English speakers and the question is, in what capacity is their relationships with them?

I am not suggesting that these are women of ill repute although cant rule that out altogether, only that perhaps the sweet cute girl who steals your heart, may not be as cute and innocent as she appears.

Edited February 17, 2009 by sassienie

britmaveric · February 17, 2009

No worries - people think what they want to think - best to ignore them because it says more about them than the person they are trying to slag off.

grantbkk · February 17, 2009

I've met some of the better English speaking Thai girls at the gym over the years. They are pretty hi-so in manner and appearance. They are well spoken and give no indication at all that they had ever worked in THE industry. The quirky thing is that sometimes you accidentally catch a gimps of a tramp stamp popular with dancers years ago. Usually a filigree of some sort on the lower back near the end of the tailbone or the back of one of the shoulders. When I say accidentally I mean they went to a lot of trouble to cover them up but a clothing shift during a workout sometimes briefly reveals the truth of the matter. These mostly beautiful women in their mid 30's to mid 40's are on some sort of retirement stipend as they are all ladies of leisure now.

Edited February 17, 2009 by grantbkk

kiakaha · February 17, 2009

But to be perfectly honest, any Thai girls that do not fall into the categories listed above, I would be highly suspicious of those who have good English speaking skills.

as English is the Earth's default language ie: if aliens came i bet they would be addressed in English , I would therefore be more suspicious of the girls, as per your above categorization, with excellent german and japanese language skills

dotcom · February 17, 2009

If it's Stickman just say Stickman.

Some other idiot is ghost writing it.

samuibeachcomber · February 17, 2009

this post really is a no brainer.there are some regional accents in the UK that i find difficult to understand,i think the thais,particularly in tourist related industries do well to decipher what the hel_l they are ordering sometimes.

eek · February 17, 2009

The sad fact is there are many cliche's around, such as the one the OP mentioned.

ie:

This Is Starting To Pi$$ Me Off, Not all English speaking Thai women are hookers!

This Is Starting To Pi$$ Me Off, Not all Thai men are drunken, wife-beating, small " ", losers!

This Is Starting To Pi$$ Me Off, Not all western men are 'handsum', well-hung, alluring gifts from God to women!

This Is Starting To Pi$$ Me Off, Not all western women are overweight, feminazi, ball-breaking b*tches, who are undesirable and unwanted in Thailand!

..the list could go on.

The sad fact though, is that some men may hold such strong outrage against any negative comment said toward Thai women, but will still laugh and try to put down women from their own culture.

Of course there are other examples where a person will show outrage about one thing, but then happily spout off some mean generalised remark about something else (and there are women are guilty of that too).

..but of course, no one here would do such a thing....

But, i totally agree, that anyone who really would think that a Thai woman speaking English well = hooker is very ignorant, and way out of line.

Edited February 17, 2009 by eek

PeaceBlondie · February 17, 2009

Nothing wrong with browsing other Thai forums. I did so last night, and viewed a long discussion that might have been started by a regular TVisa poster. They commented almost in unison, that Thailish is simply not English. That if Thais (or various other non-native speakers of English) were to visit UK/US/Oz/Canada and mis-pronounce 'comptuTER' or order sapagetti or mangle the grammar and syntax as much as your typical Thai teacher of English does, they would be accused of not speaking English.

I have also recently browsed finished technical papers of highly educated Thai scientists and engineers. They leave off -s on the end of verbs and nouns because in Thai professional circles, they seldom hear the -s spoken by Thai Ph.D's, even if it is spoken. Technically, this is L1 interference, where their first language interferes with their second language. "I go shop Centran yesterday" is not just spoken by working girls.

Dan came by the other night and we had a nice, long talk. His English is excellent, like my partner's. They never studied it at school, but learned it in hotel management, and having a long-term relationship with a native speaker. Please, do not assume that your matayom 6 graduates speak English even as well as their Thai teachers. Nor, that they learned English in a bar.

PhilHarries · February 17, 2009

I've met some of the better English speaking Thai girls at the gym over the years. They are pretty hi-so in manner and appearance. They are well spoken and give no indication at all that they had ever worked in THE industry. The quirky thing is that sometimes you accidentally catch a gimps of a tramp stamp popular with dancers years ago. Usually a filigree of some sort on the lower back near the end of the tailbone or the back of one of the shoulders. When I say accidentally I mean they went to a lot of trouble to cover them up but a clothing shift during a workout sometimes briefly reveals the truth of the matter. These mostly beautiful women in their mid 30's to mid 40's are on some sort of retirement stipend as they are all ladies of leisure now.

Now you are falling into the same trap as the OP is complaining about, that of stereotyping. A man is seen with a Thai woman whose appearance suggests she is younger than him, ergo she is an ex-hooker. A woman has a discrete tatto on any part of her body, ergo she is an ex-hooker (or maybe still is one).

It is unfortunate that if you are in a relationship with virtually any Asian woman no matter how many PhD's she may be able to muster there are people of all types who will brand her a "working girl" to use that quaint categorisation. It is part of life's burden that you just have to deal with or get off the train, whoever said life was fair and just anyhow?

What pisses me off is this stigmatisation of these so called working girls particularly by anonymous members of fora like this one. Who are any of us to sit in splendid isolation behind the anonymity of our keyboards and fire off libellous missives about people we have never met all with the bravery of being out of range. Sure some of these girls are in the situation they are in because of greed and idleness but many are there because there is no viable alternative. There is no social security for any Thai to fall back on unlike certain sections of the female population back in sink holes like certain UK housing estates.

Whilst you are all sitting back branding people whores just remember that a whore is a human being too no more no less than yourself. There but for the grace of God and the right number in the genetic/geographical lottery goes yourself.

GuestHouse · February 17, 2009

I think like all generalizations the observation is clearly not always true.

But then like many generalizations it is based is a truism.

I also believe that this endless need guys seem to have to assert that their sweetheart is a 'goodgirl' is nothing other than an admission to the truism that the generalization is based on.

I know of no other place where this constant need to assert the 'good-girl' credentials of one's partner exists - that surely tells us something about Thailand and foreigner/Thai relationships in Thailand.

jayjayjayjay · February 17, 2009

~snip~
... I have a pretty good idea who you are reffering to EvilDrSomkid - there is another way of looking at his comment: its more a reflection of the group of girls he assocaites with and is comfortable with, than it his of his knowledge of Thai women in general and their abilities!!!!

Bingo, thinking the way they do proves their narrow band of friends and equally narrow ability to think. Do not assume anyone that can type is automatically worthy of communicating with!

mijan24 · February 17, 2009

Paranoia is a terrible thing.
There will always be people who assume she was / is 'working'.

Why does it matter?

It matters because it's totally inaccurate. It's a slur on a persons character.

On my second trip to Thailand I became friends with our female tour guide in Bangkok. She learned English at school and spoke it well. She now lives in Sydney working as an interpreter for the Australian Government. She would be horrified if people regarded her as a 'working girl' and so would I.

Mighty Mouse without doubting you in any way many Thai people can speak reasonable English and those that have the opportunity to practice their conversation skills can become good communicators, your friend I expect learnt a lot from conversations as a tour guide. She must have studied a lot to become qualified as an official interpreter/translator for the government and good on her?

elektrified · February 17, 2009

Why doesn't the OP take his gripe to the original website and/or forum he has the grievance with?

jayjayjayjay · February 17, 2009

I've met some of the better English speaking Thai girls at the gym over the years. They are pretty hi-so in manner and appearance. They are well spoken and give no indication at all that they had ever worked in THE industry. The quirky thing is that sometimes you accidentally catch a gimps of a tramp stamp popular with dancers years ago. Usually a filigree of some sort on the lower back near the end of the tailbone or the back of one of the shoulders. When I say accidentally I mean they went to a lot of trouble to cover them up but a clothing shift during a workout sometimes briefly reveals the truth of the matter. These mostly beautiful women in their mid 30's to mid 40's are on some sort of retirement stipend as they are all ladies of leisure now.

Grant, your in need of counciling........ I'll join ya!

Totster · February 17, 2009

....as they are all ladies of leisure now.

Kind of what the topic is all about really....

Totster

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