Prime Minister Worries About Thailand Image

[Oberkommando]

"Welcome to "Plusworld", folks. In case you hadn't noticed, they do things differently there...............".

I'm convinced he's a clever troll.

No-one could be so purposefully misinformed and no-one so consistent in providing misinformation and inaccuracies.

You can.

Thanks for resorting to personal abuse, both of you. Makes it clearer for me.

It wasn't personal abuse.

If you lie and misinform in order to garner support for your debating position then expect to get called on it.

[animatic]

"Welcome to "Plusworld", folks. In case you hadn't noticed, they do things differently there...............".

I'm convinced he's a clever troll.

No-one could be so purposefully misinformed and no-one so consistent in providing misinformation and inaccuracies.

You can.

Thanks for resorting to personal abuse, both of you. Makes it clearer for me.

It wasn't personal abuse.

If you lie and misinform in order to garner support for your debating position then expect to get called on it.

This from the UberTeapot.

[Plus]

"Welcome to "Plusworld", folks. In case you hadn't noticed, they do things differently there...............".

I'm convinced he's a clever troll.

No-one could be so purposefully misinformed and no-one so consistent in providing misinformation and inaccuracies.

You can.

Thanks for resorting to personal abuse, both of you. Makes it clearer for me.

It wasn't personal abuse.

If you lie and misinform in order to garner support for your debating position then expect to get called on it.

"he's a clever troll" - nothing personal, huh? Not in my "plusworld".

And you didn't call where exactly I lied or misinfrmed, just called me a troll while talking some lofty stuff about debating positions.

In my plusworld that doesn't fly either.

I should honestly tell you I'm too old to adapt to your new tricks.

Bear with me.

[jbowman1993]

"Welcome to "Plusworld", folks. In case you hadn't noticed, they do things differently there...............".

I'm convinced he's a clever troll.

No-one could be so purposefully misinformed and no-one so consistent in providing misinformation and inaccuracies.

Welcome to my ignored users list Ober...don't worry, I'm sure your be among friends there.

[animatic]

I never put anyone on ignore.

i want to know how bad it gets.

[Steve2UK]

I never put anyone on ignore.

i want to know how bad it gets.

I'm rather with you on this, animatic - although I can't know what constitutes "bad" for you. Certainly, it has never occurred to me to put anyone on "ignore" - and I only recall one other member doing it...... or rather announcing that they were doing it (clearly, no way of knowing how many do it and don't announce it). Come to that - why announce it?

[Thai at Heart]

I never put anyone on ignore.

i want to know how bad it gets.

I'm rather with you on this, animatic - although I can't know what constitutes "bad" for you. Certainly, it has never occurred to me to put anyone on "ignore" - and I only recall one other member doing it...... or rather announcing that they were doing it (clearly, no way of knowing how many do it and don't announce it). Come to that - why announce it?

Not much point debating if you only hear half the story.

“Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story”

[Oberkommando]

Welcome to my ignored users list Ober...don't worry, I'm sure your be among friends there.

How will I manage with you not reading my posts?

I'm not sure life will be worth living any more.

[jbowman1993]

I never put anyone on ignore.

i want to know how bad it gets.

I'm rather with you on this, animatic - although I can't know what constitutes "bad" for you. Certainly, it has never occurred to me to put anyone on "ignore" - and I only recall one other member doing it...... or rather announcing that they were doing it (clearly, no way of knowing how many do it and don't announce it). Come to that - why announce it?

Not much point debating if you only hear half the story.

“Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story”

The main point is that there is not ""debating" from most of the people here.... Debating supposes a healthy respect for the other person, regardless of their point of view. The venom and bile spewed forth by so many in the News Clipping section, and the baseless (or thoughtless) claims, insults and drudgery make my ignore list quite an attractive option for many.

Its not a matter of censoring viewpoints, its a choice to censor bullsh$t...

Edited March 18, 2009 by jbowman1993

[Journalist]

Debating supposes a healthy respect for the other person.

That's debatable.

[Thai at Heart]

I never put anyone on ignore.

i want to know how bad it gets.

I'm rather with you on this, animatic - although I can't know what constitutes "bad" for you. Certainly, it has never occurred to me to put anyone on "ignore" - and I only recall one other member doing it...... or rather announcing that they were doing it (clearly, no way of knowing how many do it and don't announce it). Come to that - why announce it?

Not much point debating if you only hear half the story.

“Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story”

The main point is that there is not ""debating" from most of the people here.... Debating supposes a healthy respect for the other person, regardless of their point of view. The venom and bile spewed forth by so many in the News Clipping section, and the baseless (or thoughtless) claims, insults and drudgery make my ignore list quite an attractive option for many.

Its not a matter of censoring viewpoints, its a choice to censor bullsh$t...

Well I treat this forum as a debate. Some of the points made by most parties have some merit.

None of us are close enough to most of the stories to provide much insight other than personal opinion. It is up to you whether you want to ignore people. I don't consider any of the opinions bull, but I try to avoid making it personal, because other than the actual news headlines (and often the articles are one way or another slanted also), everything on here is a personal opinion.

I live in hope that someone will provide the crackerjack opinion, and to put people on ignore means I might miss it.

[SoMeOnEnUlL]

Welcome to my ignored users list Ober...don't worry, I'm sure your be among friends there.

How will I manage with you not reading my posts?

I'm not sure life will be worth living any more.

"Those who do don't tell and those who tell don't do".

[animatic]

Debating supposes a healthy respect for the other person.

That's debatable.

Debating :

presupposes that two, PRO and CON arguments, or occasionally more,

are discussed sequncially with space for rebuttles within a set time frame.

And then a jury or audience decides on the winner based on logical merits,

if any are proved, coming from the opposing the PRO and CON and ETC. sides.

Respect is maintained by Moderation of a theoretically neutral third party.

[Koo82]

Can we stick to the subject?

Question: does Abhisit still worry about Thailand image when PAD has not yet received any judgment so far? They only received the invitation letters from Police.

Or is it an old story?

[animatic]

Can we stick to the subject?

Question: does Abhisit still worry about Thailand image when PAD has not yet received any judgment so far? They only received the invitation letters from Police.

Or is it an old story?

Old story, diminished logic, we KNOW Thai justice is slow.

Not suitable for continued debate,

because all the points have been stated.

Until such time new datum arrives it's moot.

[sriracha john]

Can we stick to the subject?

That was my point way back at Post # 300

Or is it an old story?

That, it is. The ASEAN Summit ended nearly 3 weeks ago.

[caf]

I never put anyone on ignore.

i want to know how bad it gets.

I'm rather with you on this, animatic - although I can't know what constitutes "bad" for you. Certainly, it has never occurred to me to put anyone on "ignore" - and I only recall one other member doing it...... or rather announcing that they were doing it (clearly, no way of knowing how many do it and don't announce it). Come to that - why announce it?

Not much point debating if you only hear half the story.

"Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story"

The main point is that there is not ""debating" from most of the people here.... Debating supposes a healthy respect for the other person, regardless of their point of view. The venom and bile spewed forth by so many in the News Clipping section, and the baseless (or thoughtless) claims, insults and drudgery make my ignore list quite an attractive option for many.

Its not a matter of censoring viewpoints, its a choice to censor bullsh$t...

That is a moderation issue and it is for them to better police this forum so that it reverts to healthy respectful debating

[hammered]

Can we stick to the subject?

Question: does Abhisit still worry about Thailand image when PAD has not yet received any judgment so far? They only received the invitation letters from Police.

Or is it an old story?

Thailand's image internationally and what the PAD have done or will do or for that matter what the reds have done will do or what even Thaksin says are different things.

Thailand can have a good or bad image regardless of all the above. Right now Abhisit is probably worrying less after a succesful ASEAN meeting, a succesful trip to the UK and receiving endorsements form Steve Forbes etc. The high profile diplomatic offensive to portray an image that Thailand is back and stable is working quite well right now. As long as Thailand appears politcally stable compared to the past few years its image will remain good. The question is will Thaksin and the reds try to prevent this by doing a PAD, or if by any chance the government is replaced by a new Thaksin proxy one will the PAD bring back instability.

In short and in the real world of real politik, Thailand will have a good image unless one of the street gangs decide to "have a go" against a government not to their liking. Most politcal pundits in Thailand now seem to think the country is a lot calmer and becoming more so by the day, so this eventuality may not actually happen. Remember too that world leaders are only really concerned about economics, so Thailand needs to be seen in this context.

[catmac]

Its not a matter of censoring viewpoints, its a choice to censor bullsh$t...

Oh dear! Fancy having to put yourself on your ignore list!

[jayboy]

In short and in the real world of real politik, Thailand will have a good image unless one of the street gangs decide to "have a go" against a government not to their liking. Most politcal pundits in Thailand now seem to think the country is a lot calmer and becoming more so by the day, so this eventuality may not actually happen. Remember too that world leaders are only really concerned about economics, so Thailand needs to be seen in this context.

One could plausibly argue that Abhisit came to power as a result of a "street gang" having a go against the government of the day.He's definitely aware that his connection with PAD is potentially toxic and at the same time conscious of the sympathies of some of his middle class constituents:it's a difficult balancing act.My guess is that none of the PAD leaders will come to trial or that if they do the issue of their guilt will be fudged: they have been protected in the past and will be in future.At the same time Abhisit will need to make some gesture that he does not go along with domestic terrorism.Step forward Kasit who will be the likely scapegoat in my opinion (scapegoat probably being the wrong word because his presence at the PAD mob's seizure of the airport is inconsistent with his post of Foreign Minister).He's toast.I give him 6 months maximum.

Edited March 19, 2009 by jayboy

[orangezeke]

not wanting to let this thread die (it is one of my favorites) i thought it best we get back on track a little. here is where i see it:

animatic, journalist and pierrot are discussing the source of Abhisit’s power. Is it Newin, is it a subversive group of King’s Cross rent boys or is it just his good looks ?

Steve2UK has called out sriracha john for referencing a Plus post as an answer along with a BP article that wasn’t even written at the time of question.

and Plus is seriously floating the idea that the democrats allowed the PPP to form government because they are gentlemen. it had nothing to do with the pounding they took at the polling stations.

sorry if i have left you off the list. i still like you.

i believe we are waiting on a reply from sriracha john. you time starts...now !

[hammered]

In short and in the real world of real politik, Thailand will have a good image unless one of the street gangs decide to "have a go" against a government not to their liking. Most politcal pundits in Thailand now seem to think the country is a lot calmer and becoming more so by the day, so this eventuality may not actually happen. Remember too that world leaders are only really concerned about economics, so Thailand needs to be seen in this context.

One could plausibly argue that Abhisit came to power as a result of a "street gang" having a go against the government of the day.He's definitely aware that his connection with PAD is potentially toxic and at the same time conscious of the sympathies of some of his middle class constituents:it's a difficult balancing act.My guess is that none of the PAD leaders will come to trial or that if they do the issue of their guilt will be fudged: they have been protected in the past and will be in future.At the same time Abhisit will need to make some gesture that he does not go along with domestic terrorism.Step forward Kasit who will be the likely scapegoat in my opinion (scapegoat probably being the wrong word because his presence at the PAD mob's seizure of the airport is inconsistent with his post of Foreign Minister).He's toast.I give him 6 months maximum.

My guess is that there will be a few PAD guilties but not Chamlong. There may even be a few sentences which will result in bail and appeal. Sondhi may feel vulnerable as if he got punished everyone else could probably go free. No doubt he wont stop reminding everyone of his power through ASTV and of the skeletons he knows about. Just my guess.

I didnt understnad why Kasit got the job in the first place. Maybe he was set up to be a sacrificial lamb and a high profile one at the right stage. His going fronm th cabinet if it happens can be presented as a conciliatory gesture too and help blur links to yellow.

[sriracha john]

not wanting to let this thread die (it is one of my favorites) i thought it best we get back on track a little. here is where i see it:

animatic, journalist and pierrot are discussing the source of Abhisit’s power. Is it Newin, is it a subversive group of King’s Cross rent boys or is it just his good looks ?

Steve2UK has called out sriracha john for referencing a Plus post as an answer along with a BP article that wasn’t even written at the time of question.

and Plus is seriously floating the idea that the democrats allowed the PPP to form government because they are gentlemen. it had nothing to do with the pounding they took at the polling stations.

sorry if i have left you off the list. i still like you.

i believe we are waiting on a reply from sriracha john. you time starts...now !

Thanks for reinforcing and highlighting why this is the Off-Topic Thread I referenced about 170 posts or so ago.

The OP and thrust of this thread regarding the successfully-completed ASEAN Summit has long been lost as it's been over for quite a bit now.

You can scratch me from the roster as these multi-topic threads get so muddled it's not worth the effort trying to keep everything sorted.

Edited March 19, 2009 by sriracha john

[Plus]

You want me to find old articles where Dems were pressuring PPP to form the govt fast or they would take over?

If negotiations between PPP and minor parties failed Dems would have no problems getting them on thier board instead.

PPP, despite "winning" elections, had a very hard time forming an alliance, and they had to give up a lot to secure minor parties support, they dropped all their Thaksin agenda, for example.

If PPP refused to give in on those issues, Democrats would have been in the government instead, same as they are now. Of course Newin's boys defection makes current government a lot stronger, without him Dems would have only a slim majoirty.

Or look at it from another angle - Democrats managed to cobble up a government with exactly the same MPs they had after the elections. That's not "decisive defeat".

Or look at PPP's "victory" from another angle - what could they achieve in parliament? They've been snubbed by their coaltion partners on may occasions with their constitution amendments moves, they haven't done anything to help Thaksin at all. What kind of victory was that? Definitely not "decisive".

As for this governemnt stability - there aren't any threats on the horizon. Red pressure didn't materialise, PTP have only one shot at no confidence (which will be a big flop, I expect), coalition partners are busy making money for the first time in years - who needs elections? No one.

[Old Man River]

In short and in the real world of real politik, Thailand will have a good image unless one of the street gangs decide to "have a go" against a government not to their liking. Most politcal pundits in Thailand now seem to think the country is a lot calmer and becoming more so by the day, so this eventuality may not actually happen. Remember too that world leaders are only really concerned about economics, so Thailand needs to be seen in this context.

One could plausibly argue that Abhisit came to power as a result of a "street gang" having a go against the government of the day.He's definitely aware that his connection with PAD is potentially toxic and at the same time conscious of the sympathies of some of his middle class constituents:it's a difficult balancing act.My guess is that none of the PAD leaders will come to trial or that if they do the issue of their guilt will be fudged: they have been protected in the past and will be in future.At the same time Abhisit will need to make some gesture that he does not go along with domestic terrorism.Step forward Kasit who will be the likely scapegoat in my opinion (scapegoat probably being the wrong word because his presence at the PAD mob's seizure of the airport is inconsistent with his post of Foreign Minister).He's toast.I give him 6 months maximum.

My guess is that there will be a few PAD guilties but not Chamlong. There may even be a few sentences which will result in bail and appeal. Sondhi may feel vulnerable as if he got punished everyone else could probably go free. No doubt he wont stop reminding everyone of his power through ASTV and of the skeletons he knows about. Just my guess.

I didnt understnad why Kasit got the job in the first place. Maybe he was set up to be a sacrificial lamb and a high profile one at the right stage. His going fronm th cabinet if it happens can be presented as a conciliatory gesture too and help blur links to yellow.

Kasit has been in Thailand's Ministry of Foreign Affairs for over 35 years. He is well known in diplomatic circles. However, given his role in the PAD, he has become a liability for this government. Originally, it was thought that if Sukhumphand lost the Bangkok Governorship race, that he would have quickly replaced Kasit (which would have been an excellent choice). Now, if Kasit is to be replaced, it is anybody's guess who it will be.

[Plus]

Now there's no need to replace Kasit at all, after Asean summit under the belt talk about him being compromised is irrelevant. The worst, the first couple of month and introduction to the wolrd, has passed.

Reds worries about his image didn't materialise.

Time to move on.

[jayboy]

Now there's no need to replace Kasit at all, after Asean summit under the belt talk about him being compromised is irrelevant. The worst, the first couple of month and introduction to the wolrd, has passed.

Reds worries about his image didn't materialise.

Time to move on.

It's not just reds worried about Kasit's appalling international image.If it was just their opinion it could be safely ignored.The man, as any but the most partisan of PAD zealots can understand, is damaged goods.Abhisit's comment that his actions in support of PAD were committed before his appointment don't convince.I'm guessing his appointment was part of a package agreed (Faustian comes to mind) when the Dems came in but he's surplus to requirements now and can be discarded.

The claim that he survived the Asean summit -that meeting (Indonesia and Malaysia apart) of gangsters, despots. crackpot dictators is a comical concept.When something really matters (eg G20 in London) you can be sure the tainted FM is left behind and Korn accompanies the PM.

[Plus]

Since they went to talk about economy and not politics, choice of economic minister over foreign minister is reasonable.

It's not just reds worried about Kasit's appalling international image.

Who else? Thaivisa posters?

I don't see any evidence that anyone important cares about his speeches at the airport. As time goes by it becomes more and more distant past.

[jayboy]

Since they went to talk about economy and not politics, choice of economic minister over foreign minister is reasonable.

It's not just reds worried about Kasit's appalling international image.

Who else? Thaivisa posters?

I don't see any evidence that anyone important cares about his speeches at the airport. As time goes by it becomes more and more distant past.

I'm sure Abhisit will always have a plausible reason to leave Kasit behind on foreign trips.The fact is that, competent though he is, his presence makes life more difficult than it need be for the government.These decisions are taken in a fairly cold clinical way.His dismissal will I think be carefully stage managed to minimise loss of face.As earlier noted I still give him six months but perhaps I was too emphatic on this.I don't think Abhisit will drop him if this is perceived as weakness, and it's possible Kasit might stagger on - wounded and ineffective, unable to form serious relationships with China, Japan, the US and the EEC because of his "terrorist" past.

But you may be right -for who really knows these things? - that as time goes all this may be forgotten especially as the economic agenda becomes all important.And as I think of it -help, you're beginning to change my mind- wasn't the last German foreign minister a street police assaulting Marxist as a student?

I

[Old Man River]

Since they went to talk about economy and not politics, choice of economic minister over foreign minister is reasonable.

It's not just reds worried about Kasit's appalling international image.

Who else? Thaivisa posters?

I don't see any evidence that anyone important cares about his speeches at the airport. As time goes by it becomes more and more distant past.

I'm sure Abhisit will always have a plausible reason to leave Kasit behind on foreign trips.The fact is that, competent though he is, his presence makes life more difficult than it need be for the government.These decisions are taken in a fairly cold clinical way.His dismissal will I think be carefully stage managed to minimise loss of face.As earlier noted I still give him six months but perhaps I was too emphatic on this.I don't think Abhisit will drop him if this is perceived as weakness, and it's possible Kasit might stagger on - wounded and ineffective, unable to form serious relationships with China, Japan, the US and the EEC because of his "terrorist" past.

But you may be right -for who really knows these things? - that as time goes all this may be forgotten especially as the economic agenda becomes all important.And as I think of it -help, you're beginning to change my mind- wasn't the last German foreign minister a street police assaulting Marxist as a student?

I have to agree with Plus on this (we don't always agree). While I think that Kasit has turned out to be a liability for this government, he is very well known in diplomatic circles and nobody considers him to have a "terrorist" past. The foreign community is forgiving as most don't want long memories into their own pasts. I think your last sentence bears this out.

Now, if Kasit f's up somewhere else, then his PAD past will come back to haunt him, but right now Plus is right "as time goes by it becomes more and more distant past." It isn't like we are talking about Samak or so many others.