Marriage, Sinsod, In-laws And 1.5m Baht

[F1fanatic]

Its also a fact that the bride first loyalty is her husbands family. Its even happens that when divorce she is persuaded to leave her children with her husband family(happend in my Chinese family also, they paid her off)

It's a fact that the bride first loyalty is her husbands family ??

You're sure about that one ? anyone care to elaborate ?

In your instance you think that if the wife's family was wealthy enough they would sell one of the kids ?? How much did they pay ?

I thought that was funny too! The wife's first loyalty in Thailand is to her family i.e. mother, father etc. Her husband is secondary in most cases (not all).

Must be different in China, so why are we talking about China?

[luisparis]

I thought that was funny too! The wife's first loyalty in Thailand is to her family i.e. mother, father etc. Her husband is secondary in most cases (not all).

Must be different in China, so why are we talking about China?

Henryalleman was talking about thai chinese families it seems, but they don't seem to hold very different values from tiochew mainland families. Suspicious assertion that was ( " Its also a fact that the bride first loyalty is her husbands family). Need some more input.

Edited February 24, 2009 by luisparis

[henryalleman]

Its also a fact that the bride first loyalty is her husbands family. Its even happens that when divorce she is persuaded to leave her children with her husband family(happend in my Chinese family also, they paid her off)

It's a fact that the bride first loyalty is her husbands family ??

You're sure about that one ? anyone care to elaborate ?

In your instance you think that if the wife's family was wealthy enough they would sell one of the kids ?? How much did they pay ?

F1fanatic

Its in Thailand not in China.

luisparis

I can guarantee it, because its the custom in my very extended Chinese family. And the girl was a Thai girl from Northern Issan and not married with that family member. But she was always welcomed to visit her 2 sons.

I married already more than 30 years with an Chinese lady, who's family still keep traditional Chinese family values very high, so I do know what I'm talking about.

One of the first things she asked me if I was the youngest sons. I am . And she did her duties as youngest daughter in-law till my mother died, after an cancer operation she invited her in our home and gave her an 24/7 5 star service with a smile and kindness, till she got well, she even gave up her job a while, even she didn't like her mother In-law at all.

I think both of you have a rather limited knowledge about the culture and traditions of Chinese families.

Edited February 24, 2009 by henryalleman

[Travel2003]

Nobody in Thailand would pay B 1.5M for a 30+ over-the-hill old hen like you got...no matter how many overseas degrees she may have; and yes, you should just accept that asking silly money from clueless farangs for the pleasure of bedding their daughters is a part of Thai culture

Thai tennis hero Paradorn Srichaphan paid how much to former Miss Universe Natalie...?

...not same league, but relativizing your comment...!

He paid?

Did he need to?

After all, she is Russian.

Well, maybe Canadian, or from one of the former Soviet republics, which half of the Canadian population soon will be from anyhow.

[mdechgan]

In some Chinese families they ask an very high sin-sod to scare of the candidate, because he is not wanted to become a member of the family. (happend in my Chinese family). In another cases the sin-sod was originally very high, till they find out that the wedding candidate came from a well respected family and had the potential to have an high career and there was no more talking about sin-sod( happend in my Chinese family also).

And its true that in most cases the sin-sod is given back to the bride as a kind of financial guarantee for her future if things go's wrong.

Its also a fact that the bride first loyalty is her husbands family. Its even happens that when divorce she is persuaded to leave her children with her husband family(happend in my Chinese family also, they paid her off)

Also the youngest son in a Chines family is not regarded as a good candidate to be married with, because the Chinese girls knows that she have to take care of his parents when they get old and need help.

And some Chinese mother in laws are real dragons.

I talked about Chaozchou Chinese who represent 56% of the Chinese in Thailand.

I can agree with that. Its the tradition of marrying up. No one wants their daughter to marry lower even if they are in love.

Loyalty is to the husband, but in Thai families its different. Loyalties still run with the bride's family unlike teochew customs. I guess thats why Chinese and Thai marriages have many problems. Its kinda a taboo for a Chinese person to have a Thai wife because of this reason.

Sinsod is supposed to be returned but if the family is not financially secure usually the money is not returned. That's life. But if sinsod is so that the brides parents don't get involved in the couple's personal matters its worth it.

As in a divorce I just don't know. However I do know that sinsod is not returned in a divorce. Maybe it should be.

Is it the eldest or youngest that is supposed to take care of the parents? I thought it was the eldest daughter in-law.

No we are not talking about China, but Thailand.

Most people in central Thailand are about 50% Chinese ancestry mostly teochew. A high percentage also in the northern provinces like Chiang Mai are form Yunnan. Some southerners in Phuket and Hat Yai are Hainanese. Very few are in Isaan. PMs Banharn, Thaksin and Abhisit are Chinese.

Edited February 24, 2009 by mdechgan

[henryalleman]

In some Chinese families they ask an very high sin-sod to scare of the candidate, because he is not wanted to become a member of the family. (happend in my Chinese family). In another cases the sin-sod was originally very high, till they find out that the wedding candidate came from a well respected family and had the potential to have an high career and there was no more talking about sin-sod( happend in my Chinese family also).

And its true that in most cases the sin-sod is given back to the bride as a kind of financial guarantee for her future if things go's wrong.

Its also a fact that the bride first loyalty is her husbands family. Its even happens that when divorce she is persuaded to leave her children with her husband family(happend in my Chinese family also, they paid her off)

Also the youngest son in a Chines family is not regarded as a good candidate to be married with, because the Chinese girls knows that she have to take care of his parents when they get old and need help.

And some Chinese mother in laws are real dragons.

I talked about Chaozchou Chinese who represent 56% of the Chinese in Thailand.

I can agree with that. Its the tradition of marrying up. No one wants their daughter to marry lower even if they are in love.

Loyalty is to the husband, but in Thai families its different. Loyalties still run with the bride's family unlike teochew customs. I guess thats why Chinese and Thai marriages have many problems. Its kinda a taboo for a Chinese person to have a Thai wife because of this reason.

Sinsod is supposed to be returned but if the family is not financially secure usually the money is not returned. That's life. But if sinsod is so that the brides parents don't get involved in the couple's personal matters its worth it.

As in a divorce I just don't know. However I do know that sinsod is not returned in a divorce. Maybe it should be.

Is it the eldest or youngest that is supposed to take care of the parents? I thought it was the eldest daughter in-law.

No we are not talking about China, but Thailand.

Most people in central Thailand are about 50% Chinese ancestry mostly teochew. A high percentage also in the northern provinces like Chiang Mai are form Yunnan. Some southerners in Phuket and Hat Yai are Hainanese. Very few are in Isaan. PMs Banharn, Thaksin and Abhisit are Chinese.

I'm surprised that someone in TV forum has such a good knowledge about Teochew family traditions.

Its kinda a taboo for a Chinese person to have a Thai wife because of this reason.

In my Chinese family even the 3th and 4th generation are almost all married with Chinese. And the children and grand children of mixed Chinese/Thai marriages are almost all again married with an Chinese.

Is it the eldest or youngest that is supposed to take care of the parents? I thought it was the eldest daughter in-law.

My wife was the only Chinese daughter in-law

But in my Chinese family its the youngest daughter in-law, because her husband stay home the longest.

Therefore my question are you Teochew or married with some Teochew lady?

[Rtwo]

I talked about Chaozchou Chinese who represent 56% of the Chinese in Thailand.

I do so like exactitude, the certainty it adds to life makes it oh so easy.

[scottyd]

Sin sod is for mugs.

[jayjayjayjay]

Sunshine Traveller, your being "screwed" by father and daughter at the same time.................... wow, this is a first.... PM for hardcore advice on sorting this out!

[Marksamui]

So you have spent:

900,000 (17k GBP) on Gold!!

600,000 (11.5k GBP) on a present to the inlaws!!

This is probably the most stupid thing I have ever heard.

If the Sinsod is supposed to be returned, what is the point in paying it? Besides it should just be a token amount, if they are giving it back! I think this will be lost.

The gold. 17k GBP on gold? What you do, make Mr. T an offer?

I think this is all nonsense. I made a deal with my wife that we would live by our rules not some old Thai rules. If people don't like it they can lump it......I could not give a shit if some Aunt I have never met in some village says the family needs money, go and earn it then I say and we keep our money.

[dave111223]

The gold. 17k GBP on gold? What you do, make Mr. T an offer?

[travellife]

Interesting comment about the Chinese.

She is Thai with a Chinese heritage. She is the youngest daughter and is responsible for taking care of the parents when they get old. The other daughters have told her this, so I am not sure if it is tradition. She has admitted that her father has an obsession with money. She even tires of the conversations.

It is difficult to know what intention the parents had in approving the marriage. Her father didn't congratulate us. Nor did any of his family say anything directly. My wife says that its just their personality to not openly express such feelings. I found this somewhat strange.

[G54]

She is a performing monkey and will do all kinds of tricks, just keep throwing her peanuts and she will be yours until the bag is empty.

How long before your bag is empty ?

Look, zip the lip, otherwise I`ll tell my Dad about you.

Actually, it's amazing how these hard luck story threads attract so many members, including my self.

Like a load of flies feeding on a dead carcass

Unlike the Thai Vultures feeding on the Farang wallet??

[mdechgan]

Interesting comment about the Chinese.

She is Thai with a Chinese heritage. She is the youngest daughter and is responsible for taking care of the parents when they get old. The other daughters have told her this, so I am not sure if it is tradition. She has admitted that her father has an obsession with money. She even tires of the conversations.

It is difficult to know what intention the parents had in approving the marriage. Her father didn't congratulate us. Nor did any of his family say anything directly. My wife says that its just their personality to not openly express such feelings. I found this somewhat strange.

There is a contradiction here. If she does have a Chinese heritage than the daughter will marry out not bring a husband in. It is the daughter in-law that takes care of the parents no daughter.

Does she have any brothers or is it all girls.

Marriage is not just between man and woman but also their families. Some families are not too happy to have their daughter marry a foreigner, so money is used to make them happy.

I think you have to have a straight talk about this with your wife. You have done your part and paid off the family for their daughter. If you didn't pay the sinsod it would be different but you did. Ask her what is the plan. Does she have to take care of her parents when they get older? Will her family stop meddling in your finances? If not might as well clear the air now before its too late because the marrriage will fail if the family get involved too much.

[Moonrakers]

I am not going to give this troll the credit of a reply.

DOH!

Edited February 25, 2009 by Moonrakers

[luisparis]

Its also a fact that the bride first loyalty is her husbands family. Its even happens that when divorce she is persuaded to leave her children with her husband family(happend in my Chinese family also, they paid her off)

It's a fact that the bride first loyalty is her husbands family ??

You're sure about that one ? anyone care to elaborate ?

In your instance you think that if the wife's family was wealthy enough they would sell one of the kids ?? How much did they pay ?

F1fanatic

Its in Thailand not in China.

luisparis

I can guarantee it, because its the custom in my very extended Chinese family. And the girl was a Thai girl from Northern Issan and not married with that family member. But she was always welcomed to visit her 2 sons.

I married already more than 30 years with an Chinese lady, who's family still keep traditional Chinese family values very high, so I do know what I'm talking about.

OK... let me try and understand ... you know Tiecheow culture so well, you claim the girl's loyalty for her husband's family is so strong that in case of divorce she would let the children go with husband, especially if he could buy them off... and you cite for example a non chinese non thai chinese girl from Isaan ... you lost me there, as much with your deep knowledge of the proud Shantou people as with your logic... although if I believed my tiecheow wife would let me go with the kids I would have probably divorced her...

[WOWAsia]

Sin sod = buying a woman

going to a brothel = buying a woman

[henryalleman]

OK... let me try and understand ... you know Tiecheow culture so well, you claim the girl's loyalty for her husband's family is so strong that in case of divorce she would let the children go with husband, especially if he could buy them off... and you cite for example a non chinese non thai chinese girl from Isaan ... you lost me there, as much with your deep knowledge of the proud Shantou people as with your logic... although if I believed my tiecheow wife would let me go with the kids I would have probably divorced her...

luisparis

Indeed you lost me completely. Maybe my fault due to the fact that English is not my native language.

you wrote

You claim the girl's loyalty for her husband's family is so strong that in case of divorce she would let the children go with husband, especially if he could buy them off...

I wrote

Its even happens that when divorce she is persuaded to leave her children with her husband family(happened in my Chinese family also, they paid her off)

And the girl was a Thai girl from Northern Issan and not married with that family member. But she was always welcomed to visit her 2 sons.

Should read it again carefully than you will notice that its has not the intention that you gave it.

I forgot to mention that at a certain day she disappeared and left the children behind.

months later she came back and claimed the children.

BTW she was no BG, not before and not after the separation.

Explain something in a different language is difficult and easy misunderstood.

You must understand that when a Chines girl get married she don't belong to her family anymore.

In our western eyes its rather strange, unbelievable and incomprehensible, but its also not all that black and white, its just an attitude.

[dumball]

So what has all of this to do with 'Buying' a wife or giving most of your money to 'Prove' you are able to take care of her when you have given all or most of your money to the family , just to give an impression to all those people it does not concern , that you are wealthy ? Absolutely nothing in my mind , the year happens to be 2009 not 1009 , or did you not notice ? Should any-one think they have to 'Front money ' so two people who happen to love each other , can share the same bed , you either are a little mental deficient or have your head in the sand , most likely a little of both . You have , in a way , agreed that when ever funds are needed for whatever reason , just stuff your head in the sand so we can shaft you again , must get kind of painfull after a while to my way of thinking .

[henryalleman]

I read again all the OP topics, and its seems that his wife's family regards this marriage as an misalliance.

he wrote

Prior to the marriage she said that her father has enough money and will help us live a nice life. Well, it's been several month and we currently live in an older rented studio condo and the parents haven't said anything. It's not the most convenient way to live as a married couple.

Why you need financial help from her parents, don't you have a job?

its seems that mdechgan was correct writing

Its the tradition of marrying up. No one wants their daughter to marry lower even if they are in love.

Some families are not too happy to have their daughter marry a foreigner

IMHO the parents don't think this marriage will last and if they return the sinsod the OP will use this money for his own benefit and when divorce their daughter, she will left nothing and lost not only the sinsod but also her reputation.

But her sister lives in a very old townhome which was bought for a few hundred thousand baht some years ago. It's strange to see the contrast in living. Her sister has children and from a western standpoint, the living standard would be considered near poverty.

This prove that a daughter belonging to another family. But let there be no doubt, her mother will give an envelop once in while, and papa pretend he don't know of it.

And this is exactly what he try to avoid with his other daughter

The OP wrote

I come from an Asian background, so I have some understanding of face. I satisfied my father-in-laws face by providing a lot of my savings for the marriage. But he has done nothing in return to salvage mine.

Well, he still calls about four times a week, asking about what we did and how much we spent.

This shows very clearly he don't trust that his son in-law is a good provider for his daughter and that he is very worried about his daughter. and <deleted> he sould salvage your problems.

He mentioned that I should invest in a business, like a gas station, with his son.

This is very normal question for a Chinese, its also is a way to find out the financial ability's of his son in-law.

My Chinese family also always talk about bussiness adventures and ask if I not interested to invest. I alway listen and ask many questions about it, and say I its sound interesting and I will think about it, or just say in a joking way " Phom mai mee tackel"(tackel currency before Baht)

Its just a way to make conversation going on, its like westeners talk about football

The OP withhold us a very important piece of information. Namely what he does for a living but his statement

will help us live a nice life. Well, it's been several month and we currently live in an older rented studio condo and the parents haven't said anything. It's not the most convenient way to live as a married couple.

give me the feeling that he don't have a high salary, big career or even a job.

He wrote

It wasn't clear if they were really traditional or maybe saw me as a rich foreigner with money to burn (which I burned on the marriage).

Her father lives in a nice house (probably worth 12 million baht or more).

I guarantee you that his father in-law not even think one second that the OP has money to burn. Probably he thought <deleted> the cat drag's in now.

Here again the OP withhold us a piece an important piece of information, namely the social position of his father in-law.

It could be possible that the OP had some Asian background but I doubt he has any knowledge about Chinese culture, because than he would know that all this sinsod mess could be avoided if he followed some basic ground rules.

I don't know if he followed them, but here are some of them.

Visiting the parents for the first time

dress polite, meaning long trousers, nice shirts, socks and shoes.

buy some first quality whisky( Chivas black label) or Cognac( Remy martin OX) in a luxury box

her father will not open the botlle or box and drink from it. He may not even drink alcohol by himself, but he will show off with visiters that's its a present from the boy friend of his daughter.

The girl bring some food for her mother and disapear in the kitchen with her.

Don't sit close with your girlfriend, and certainly don't touch eachother, don't show any affection, but be a gentleman, act like a married couple already. You should study how to sit polite.

Asking the hand from the daughter

You must prove that you are solvable.

Normaly a Chinese lover never visit the parents till asked the hand from his daughter and he should own a house and a car and have a good career prospect. And prove that you come from a respectable family, showning pictures from your parents their family and that are owning a house. In short prove that you are good provider and that theres no danger that his daughter will move back home.

If you follow this rules in many cases the sinsod will be only symbolic or even not mentioned.

This was the case with the youngest son of my wife, the well off family asked no sinsod at all.Originally they did( and much more than 1.5 million Baht)

Normally the Boy's mother and aunts going to ask the permission and discuss sinsod.

As I told, I'm married for more than 30 years with a chinese lady and therefore an senior citizen and knows how worried Chinese parents are (like all other parents worldwide) and try to avoid an missalliance that will only create problems for the family.

It is difficult to know what intention the parents had in approving the marriage. Her father didn't congratulate us. Nor did any of his family say anything directly. My wife says that its just their personality to not openly express such feelings. I found this somewhat strange.

And you said that you have an Asian background!!!!!!!!!

She is Thai with a Chinese heritage.

whats meaning!!!!!!!

Sorry to be blunt. But you are in Thailand and still have to learn a lot. And you play on their home turf, so they set the rules and not you. Don't think that because you are a westerner they should respect you for that. So throw your arrogance about it overboard.

And the first lesson is that middle class Chinese tradition and culture are not the same as Thai tradition and culture;

You are married with a typical middle class chinese girl and not some girl from pattaya.

This is no way denigrating those girls, they have all my respect and I never looked down on them.

Edited February 25, 2009 by henryalleman

[Maizefarmer]

Need help

I would like some feedback on the following situation. It has to do with marriage, sinsod and in-laws.

I was recently married and provided 900,000 baht in jewelry to my bride and 600,000 baht in sinsod to the parents. It sounds like a lot (which I agree), but my wife insisted that it was the right thing to do.

She has a very good status job with the government, masters degree from overseas, 30 something, never married, no boyfriends, and she claims that this amount was needed, as determined by her parents. I reluctantly agreed, being from a western culture where equality is more common (sharing of the wedding costs).

I provided the money because I love my wife, and also in part to see how her parents would react. It wasn’t clear if they were really traditional or maybe saw me as a rich foreigner with money to burn (which I burned on the marriage). My wife’s father always talks about money. He probably dreams about it also. I had a concern prior to being married about this obsession and my wife just said that it is part of the culture and he will stop after we get married. Well, he still calls about four times a week, asking about what we did and how much we spent. I informed her that this will cause undue stress in our relationship if he consistently tries to control any financial decisions we make. He tries to monitor everything. He mentioned that I should invest in a business, like a gas station, with his son.

My wife said the sinsod is just part of the tradition and her parents would return it. Prior to the marriage she said that her father has enough money and will help us live a nice life. Well, it’s been several month and we currently live in an older rented studio condo and the parents haven’t said anything. It’s not the most convenient way to live as a married couple. It is more common in my home country to use a good portion of the money as a down-payment on a house. I come from an Asian background, so I have some understanding of face. I satisfied my father-in-laws face by providing a lot of my savings for the marriage. But he has done nothing in return to salvage mine.

I read about the Thai ‘ego’ and the need to satisfy it. Her father lives in a nice house (probably worth 12 million baht or more). But her sister lives in a very old townhome which was bought for a few hundred thousand baht some years ago. It’s strange to see the contrast in living. Her sister has children and from a western standpoint, the living standard would be considered near poverty.

Am I trying to analyze her family’s intention too much, or should I just accept it as Thai culture?

Travellife

Run - run like hel_l. SinSod!? Nope. Manipulation and exploitation of your sincerity/goodwill!? Yes - and dare I add - your willingness to love. Period - end of story - and my other half concurrs (just rolls her eyes and rhetoricaly asks - "do they ever learn - do they ever....................?").

Make a list of realisable assets - cash in what you can and take legal advise on securing the rest (e.g. - don't forget the house in Thailand is treated seperately from the land on which is stands - well, can be in nearly all cases, the car, pickup ect ect ....... )

Put this down to one of lifes experiances - and move on.

Don't get upset over it - yer, yer ....I know easier said than done, but ask most old hands/expats of Thailand - it just ain't worth the emotional heartache - this is the very moment in the whole experiance you need to wind your head in - use it and not your heart to make decisions - and for f's sake: do not, do not, try rationalise your way through this whole experiance (at least not now - do that later if you want)- just get out with as much asset and dignity as you can - and the sooner the better.

[luisparis]

In our western eyes its rather strange, unbelievable and incomprehensible, but its also not all that black and white, its just an attitude.

Henry,

I really appreciate your efforts to explain the goings of thai chinese families, it's very sweet in the maze of farangs lao relationships that litter the internet...the only thing I find strange here is you trying to illustrate chinese peculiarities with the doings of a non chinese Isaan girl... a bit like talking of poisonnous plaraa when trying to teach us the cooking of birdnest soup...

Edited February 25, 2009 by luisparis

[mdechgan]

Well first of all is this lady's family uphold Thai or Chinese Teochew cultures? There's a big difference.

Also another difference is the financial disparity between the two, also is the family old or nouveau styled?

1. A simple Thai girl with parents that are not too financially secure.

2. An older Teochew family with strict customs and avery protective daughter.

3. A BG with no family ties hoping to find a free ride outside of the country and hoping to bag a wealthy white one is another.

Sinsod believe it or not is a custom for most families in Thailand just depends how much. If Westerners do not like the idea of sinsod atleast they should respct the culture. If I had a daughter I wouldn't like my daughter to run away with some guy only for her to return home after a being dumped after few months. Marriage isn't just a piece of paper and two people living together. For most Teochew families one has to prove that he is capable of supporting his wife. That's why my father in-law didn't like Westerners because they failed to respect the cultural values and customs of his family. Took me awhile to work it, but eventually I became a son to him.

He also didn't like his daughter in-law because she was Thai (number 1) and her family kept asking for money. No they did not return the sinsod. In the end she ran off with another guy that happened to be richer (became number 3)

Just because you meet a girl in Thailand you can just marry her without her family's approval. She does have ties to her family. Is it wrong for a lady to be worried about her parents?

If someone doesn't want to pay sinsod he doesn't have to. If the person still wants to marry you then great. But if no and the family doesn't approve the lady is always has an option to find someone that will uphold her family's customs.

Very simple, do you trust this lady? If you do than sinsod and money is not important. But if you have doubts that she might be a gold digger...

[henryalleman]

In our western eyes its rather strange, unbelievable and incomprehensible, but its also not all that black and white, its just an attitude.

Henry,

I really appreciate your efforts to explain the goings of thai chinese families, it's very sweet in the maze of farangs lao relationships that litter the internet...the only thing I find strange here is you trying to illustrate chinese peculiarities with the doings of a non chinese Isaan girl... a bit like talking of poisonnous plaraa when trying to teach us the cooking of birdnest soup...

luisparis,

maybe I'm wrong but reading the OP I understood that his wife's family is a middle class Chinese family.. You can call it Thai/Chinese or Sino Thai, and they can even life 100 year's in Thailand but they are Chinese. They can be Teochow, Hanan, Hailom or whatever of the 6 different ethnic Chinese groups in Thailand. There culture is not Thai and never will be Thai. Its a complete different society with his own values. Not better or worse than any other culture or tradition just different.

[Marksamui]

Very simple, do you trust this lady? If you do than sinsod and money is not important. But if you have doubts that she might be a gold digger...

If you give the money to her parents it is not so much trust the girl but trust the parents.

Are you meant to get this Sinsod back or not. That makes a big difference especially when the OP is handing over 600,000 Baht! Money is important in this day and age and for me it would be much more important that trying to maintain some out of date tradition.

The world has moved forward and the new generations of Thais are starting to understand that they need education, qualifactions, a good job and get some decent financial structure in their life. Not breed and then sell the children to the highest bidder so they have something to retire on! This is one of the reasons why there is such a large division of wealth in Thailand. Some try and make something, others are lazy looking for a handout!

[mdechgan]

If you give the money to her parents it is not so much trust the girl but trust the parents.

Are you meant to get this Sinsod back or not. That makes a big difference especially when the OP is handing over 600,000 Baht! Money is important in this day and age and for me it would be much more important that trying to maintain some out of date tradition.

The world has moved forward and the new generations of Thais are starting to understand that they need education, qualifactions, a good job and get some decent financial structure in their life. Not breed and then sell the children to the highest bidder so they have something to retire on! This is one of the reasons why there is such a large division of wealth in Thailand. Some try and make something, others are lazy looking for a handout!

I think trusting the girl is very important. Does she love the husband or her parents and herself more? If she really loves her husband than she should know that 1.5million baht is hard to come by should respect her husbands wishes and difficulties. She would also voice out at her parents and protect her husband from outrageous requests from the parents. But if she cares more for her parents and herself then it would be solely for money reasons. Her parents will retire an easy life and make her husband work his as_s off for her and her parents.

Edited February 26, 2009 by mdechgan

[Marksamui]

The original poster has been conned by a BG and her parents and should cut his losees and run.

(That is if he is not a Troll)

All this degree nonsense is just that.

A fool and his money are easily parted......

[dumball]

Sin sod = buying a woman

going to a brothel = buying a woman

Excellent analysis , but it is more than that ,

Brothel = hire temporarily

Sin sod = Buy on a permanent basis

Human traffic = Buy another human

Correlation ??????????????

[dumball]

I read again all the OP topics, and its seems that his wife's family regards this marriage as an misalliance.

he wrote

Prior to the marriage she said that her father has enough money and will help us live a nice life. Well, it's been several month and we currently live in an older rented studio condo and the parents haven't said anything. It's not the most convenient way to live as a married couple.

Why you need financial help from her parents, don't you have a job?

its seems that mdechgan was correct writing

Its the tradition of marrying up. No one wants their daughter to marry lower even if they are in love.

Some families are not too happy to have their daughter marry a foreigner

IMHO the parents don't think this marriage will last and if they return the sinsod the OP will use this money for his own benefit and when divorce their daughter, she will left nothing and lost not only the sinsod but also her reputation.

But her sister lives in a very old townhome which was bought for a few hundred thousand baht some years ago. It's strange to see the contrast in living. Her sister has children and from a western standpoint, the living standard would be considered near poverty.

This prove that a daughter belonging to another family. But let there be no doubt, her mother will give an envelop once in while, and papa pretend he don't know of it.

And this is exactly what he try to avoid with his other daughter

The OP wrote

I come from an Asian background, so I have some understanding of face. I satisfied my father-in-laws face by providing a lot of my savings for the marriage. But he has done nothing in return to salvage mine.

Well, he still calls about four times a week, asking about what we did and how much we spent.

This shows very clearly he don't trust that his son in-law is a good provider for his daughter and that he is very worried about his daughter. and <deleted> he sould salvage your problems.

He mentioned that I should invest in a business, like a gas station, with his son.

This is very normal question for a Chinese, its also is a way to find out the financial ability's of his son in-law.

My Chinese family also always talk about bussiness adventures and ask if I not interested to invest. I alway listen and ask many questions about it, and say I its sound interesting and I will think about it, or just say in a joking way " Phom mai mee tackel"(tackel currency before Baht)

Its just a way to make conversation going on, its like westeners talk about football

The OP withhold us a very important piece of information. Namely what he does for a living but his statement

will help us live a nice life. Well, it's been several month and we currently live in an older rented studio condo and the parents haven't said anything. It's not the most convenient way to live as a married couple.

give me the feeling that he don't have a high salary, big career or even a job.

He wrote

It wasn't clear if they were really traditional or maybe saw me as a rich foreigner with money to burn (which I burned on the marriage).

Her father lives in a nice house (probably worth 12 million baht or more).

I guarantee you that his father in-law not even think one second that the OP has money to burn. Probably he thought <deleted> the cat drag's in now.

Here again the OP withhold us a piece an important piece of information, namely the social position of his father in-law.

It could be possible that the OP had some Asian background but I doubt he has any knowledge about Chinese culture, because than he would know that all this sinsod mess could be avoided if he followed some basic ground rules.

I don't know if he followed them, but here are some of them.

Visiting the parents for the first time

dress polite, meaning long trousers, nice shirts, socks and shoes.

buy some first quality whisky( Chivas black label) or Cognac( Remy martin OX) in a luxury box

her father will not open the botlle or box and drink from it. He may not even drink alcohol by himself, but he will show off with visiters that's its a present from the boy friend of his daughter.

The girl bring some food for her mother and disapear in the kitchen with her.

Don't sit close with your girlfriend, and certainly don't touch eachother, don't show any affection, but be a gentleman, act like a married couple already. You should study how to sit polite.

Asking the hand from the daughter

You must prove that you are solvable.

Normaly a Chinese lover never visit the parents till asked the hand from his daughter and he should own a house and a car and have a good career prospect. And prove that you come from a respectable family, showning pictures from your parents their family and that are owning a house. In short prove that you are good provider and that theres no danger that his daughter will move back home.

If you follow this rules in many cases the sinsod will be only symbolic or even not mentioned.

This was the case with the youngest son of my wife, the well off family asked no sinsod at all.Originally they did( and much more than 1.5 million Baht)

Normally the Boy's mother and aunts going to ask the permission and discuss sinsod.

As I told, I'm married for more than 30 years with a chinese lady and therefore an senior citizen and knows how worried Chinese parents are (like all other parents worldwide) and try to avoid an missalliance that will only create problems for the family.

It is difficult to know what intention the parents had in approving the marriage. Her father didn't congratulate us. Nor did any of his family say anything directly. My wife says that its just their personality to not openly express such feelings. I found this somewhat strange.

And you said that you have an Asian background!!!!!!!!!

She is Thai with a Chinese heritage.

whats meaning!!!!!!!

Sorry to be blunt. But you are in Thailand and still have to learn a lot. And you play on their home turf, so they set the rules and not you. Don't think that because you are a westerner they should respect you for that. So throw your arrogance about it overboard.

And the first lesson is that middle class Chinese tradition and culture are not the same as Thai tradition and culture;

You are married with a typical middle class chinese girl and not some girl from pattaya.

This is no way denigrating those girls, they have all my respect and I never looked down on them.

So after all of your conjecture and espousing the workings 0f explotation by a Chinese family , what has this to do with Thailand and the marriage of two people in love who should not be ripped off for the benifit of the family ? You are obviously a very gullible person , live with it .

[WOWAsia]

Sin sod = buying a woman

going to a brothel = buying a woman

Excellent analysis , but it is more than that ,

Brothel = hire temporarily

Sin sod = Buy on a permanent basis

Human traffic = Buy another human

Correlation ??????????????

Permanent is if no divorce, if divorce, it was a bad deal, for the one who payed.

I must addmit, I do not know much about Thai or Chinese culture and about selling their daughters.