The New Central Shopping Complex Is A Waste Of Space

[syd barrett]

Can anyone even remember what was there on that site before Central? I thought not!

Please tell me. I have forgotten and I'm interested.

[Meg_2003]

I remember some little old beer bars used to be there on the Beach Roach/Soi 9 side of Central, but don't remember what else used to be there..

[CGW]

I wonder if the other 14 Central Department stores in Thailand were lucky enough to be picked to bits by the local expat community?

If you go by location "our" store would have to be in the prime location?

I am glad it is here and no it will ultimately be successful, the people behind this place have some serious money and influence to back up, until it is a success!

[dieter1]

I am not flying 10.000 miles to go shopping at the same ugly and totaly commercial shopping complexes like in my home country.

I come to thailand, cause it is (was?) different! f.e. many littel shops and I like to eat at noodle soup sitting on a small chair in the soi, having a chat with the cooking lady!

(NOT eating Burgers at Mac.DO - it will kill you ! KILL YOU! No FUN! Stop looking advertising on TV, dont use your car and use your legs for what GOD invited them !)

If you like shoping- holiday please go to Dubai. They will happily take your money.

Before they open this new complex, the traffic at beach road and second road (and central road) was already awful- everyone with intact brain know this. To build such a big complex at this place and to add about some thousand more cars to this traffic is nearly crazy- and only possible in this crazy country without real puplic control, controled only by some money greedy people, who dont care whats good for the people (who do not understand this at last, -We have a worldwide economy desaster now!- will never learn!).

In some more "civilized" countries (europe, even US) this would be impossible.

I like to walk at the beach, would even like to walk at second road, but traffic is just too bad ! Do you realy think I would like, that this shitty "temple of commerce" adds some thousands of cars to the allready overloaded beach road ?

I have to breath the exhausts of these too many cars and it is not a pleasure and its destroying my health.

Please, if you cant realy live without these awful games, do search for another planet and please let this one be liveable!

[dieter1]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Pattaya-t246152.html&st=50

Pdaz post 2009-03-01 19:20:43

"Yes cos when they have finished building all the Malls and shophouses.. Pattaya will just resemble BKK with a dirty beach.. If all the cities and islands in Thailand end up being exactly the same there would be no point to visit them... Go check out what they have done to Koh Chang in the last few years.. From beautiful island (when I first visited in 1990) to a strip of hotels, shops and resorts that obscure the beach .. 'Indian' tailors, Irish pubs, Cafe's and internet shops... <deleted> ! It's meant to be a beautiful natural island.. Not a foookin shopping center... Why not leave the islands for people that want peace, quiet and unspoilt natural beauty... If you need a Mall, fancy hotel, cafe culture and worst an Irish pub.. Stay in BKK or better still your own country... Thailand is fast running out of what brought peple here in the first place... As for Pattaya.. I like many long termers here have seen it get worse over the years.. Service has disapeared along with the smiles, traffic congestion is terrible, violence, crime have increased while quality of life has suffered.. Worse still even if I move down the coast I know that in a couple of year all the greedy developer types and desperate 'entreprenuers' will arrive and proceed to bu**er up that part of Thailand too.."

[tropo]

I am not flying 10.000 miles to go shopping at the same ugly and totaly commercial shopping complexes like in my home country.

I come to thailand, cause it is (was?) different! f.e. many littel shops and I like to eat at noodle soup sitting on a small chair in the soi, having a chat with the cooking lady!

I understand your sentiments, but a lot of us live here, so we don't fly 10,000 miles to get here. There's only so much "noodle soup sitting on a small chair in a soi" you can do before it (food) becomes boring.

The new shopping mall offers more choice for people in Pattaya. Believe it or not, there are still thousands of places to eat noodle soup. Avoiding the mall shouldn't be too difficult for you.

...or you could just join the ranks of others and find a new place to spend your holidays.

Edited March 2, 2009 by tropo

[dieter1]

last year, I did spent about 4 month in Pattaya !

and - pardon -

why dont YOU go somewhere else ! I guess, there are many shopping opportunities where you come from....

;-)

"..or you could just join the ranks of others and find a new place to spend your holidays."

Sorry. it´s a lousy and totaly overstretched "argument" ...

[Pdaz]

I am not flying 10.000 miles to go shopping at the same ugly and totaly commercial shopping complexes like in my home country.

I come to thailand, cause it is (was?) different! f.e. many littel shops and I like to eat at noodle soup sitting on a small chair in the soi, having a chat with the cooking lady!

I understand your sentiments, but a lot of us live here, so we don't fly 10,000 miles to get here. There's only so much "noodle soup sitting on a small chair in a soi" you can do before it (food) becomes boring.

The new shopping mall offers more choice for people in Pattaya. Believe it or not, there are still thousands of places to eat noodle soup. Avoiding the mall shouldn't be too difficult for you.

...or you could just join the ranks of others and find a new place to spend your holidays.

Nothing wrong with choice... and as a very long term resident I like to have variety.. But sadly the new mall doesn't really provide it... There are perhaps 3 or 4 new places to eat.. The rest Fuji, MK and Sizzler etc are already in town... It's a bit like opening another 7/11 and saying that offers something new.

I'm not against the new Mall it's a pleasant place and certainly better than Big C.. But I think it has failed to bring anything really new or offer anything really good.. So far the only thing I can see worth visiting for is the Central Dept. stores fresh meat and deli section.. (even though Villa Market had provided most of the products already) S

My point is we now have four 'Malls' that all provide the same options.. Boot's, Watsons, MK, Guess, Cinema etc etc... I was kinda hoping we might have got some decent independant shops or different international retailers arriving then it may have been worth it..... But seems I still have to go to BKK for that.. and we just get more of the same ole shi*e..

And that's my other point.. How many more shopping centers and shop houses are they going to to build and for how long ? Until Pattaya becomes just another congested, over built city ? Just another 'cookie cutter' town the same as all the rest ... The only difference being it's location.. Globalizaton might be good in some respects but removing all individuality from cities/countries and turning them all into the same homogenized mess isn't really an improvement...

Not really adding anything to Pattaya apart from another location to buy the same old stuff... No different to opening 7/11's every 500m along a Soi.. Just bigger, more expensive and ruins more of the sceanary... I agree Pattaya has never been a beautiful seaside town but what individuality and 'charm' that it did have is rapidly being replaced by concrete and cars... Wonder if somebody will ever build a park or a running/cycle path or maybe a nice boardwalk to help improve the town ? Doubt it unless they could incorporate a few MK's, McD's or 7/11's...

Seems to me there are too many people living here now without really assimilating. they like the girls, nightlife and the cost of living but hate everything else. They spend their time homesick and dreaming of hotdogs, pork pies and suchlike.. So they are happy when Thailand becomes more like 'home' The rest of us who prefer 'Moo Ping' and 'Khao neaow' are gradually loosing what we loved.. and worse newbies now tell us 'if you don't like it go home'' Pretty funny when after 20 yrs this is my home. I just don't want to see it ruined like countless other towns in the name of 'progress'

''They paved paradise

And put up a parking lot

With a pink hotel, a boutique

And a swinging hot spot

Dont it always seem to go

That you dont know what youve got

Till its gone

They paved paradise

And put up a parking lot''

[Jingthing]

Some points:

-- agreed, there is too much redundancy of existing businesses at the new mall and I also found that disappointing, but you are wrong that there are only 4 unique options, many more than that.

-- you can still get regular Thai people's Thai food in Pattaya and that is not going to change. You may just have to sometimes walk a bit inland. Good well priced authentic Thai food is even available in the mall, try the basement food court

-- if people don't want to assimilate, what skin is that off your ass? (assimilate to what anyway, most farangs here are on one year extensions at best)

Edited March 3, 2009 by Jingthing

[PattayaParent]

Dieter 1 and Pdaz have a point, particularly about the traffic congestion, I said it myself when I first head they were building a mall there.

It would have been better locating it on the other side of Sukhumvit where there's plenty of available land at a lot cheaper price and a 4 lane highway to access / exit the place rather than sticking it in the middle of an already traffic problemed area.

[anothertorres]

traffic is no different now that the high season is dying down and the grand opening is over. not to be a jerk but, do you people even live (and drive) here? traffic, traffic, same, same.

and, if you want to argue that traffic is up on Beach Road, that is a good thing for all of us and all of Pattaya. first we worry about no tourists coming to Pattaya, now we were that there are too many tourists coming to Pattaya. sup?

[MeetJohnDoe]

Agree with Jing about the restos...maybe 4 of them are already here and all the rest are new!

As to all the complaints about traffic...what traffic? I have no problem driving my car into and out of the mall. I have noticed no discernible increase of traffic on either Central, Beach, or Second roads

[JSixpack]

Seems to me there are too many people living here now without really assimilating. they like the girls, nightlife and the cost of living but hate everything else. They spend their time homesick and dreaming of hotdogs, pork pies and suchlike.. So they are happy when Thailand becomes more like 'home' The rest of us who prefer 'Moo Ping' and 'Khao neaow' are gradually loosing what we loved.. and worse newbies now tell us 'if you don't like it go home'' Pretty funny when after 20 yrs this is my home. I just don't want to see it ruined like countless other towns in the name of 'progress'

Well, now, why is it "better" to be assimilated? First of all, no farang can really be assimilated, though some may have the delusion that they have been or can be. Thais won't let a farang be truly assimilated anyway. Try buying land for yourself. A farang can never be a Thai according to Thais. What's desired is that the farang's money gets assimilated while the interests of the Thai elite are enhanced and protected; Pattaya is continuing to develop to help ensure that goal. I can't wait until the day finally comes when they get rid of the baht buses.

Yet development does help ordinary Thais pull themselves out of the poverty, ignorance, fear, and superstition that enable much of what tourists condescendingly find so charming. And Thais themselves want this progress. If they didn't, then Bangkok wouldn't exist; it's not on account of the farangs.

Me, it's true, I don't want to be assimilated. I like who I am, a kind of global person. In fact, I think the more that Thais get assimilated by farang culture, with its values of freedom, individuality, rationality, equality before the law, separation of church and state, binding contracts, and democracy, the better off they'll be. (I concede that the implementation of Western values in Western countries often falls woefully short of the ideal, but Thai culture even more often falls short of its own ideals. For example, a major Buddhist stricture is against lying--believe it or not!)

Now for those pseudo-farang Thais, not to worry: there will likely always be food carts w/ moo ping and khao neaow on the streets for Thai staff from upcountry. BTW, did you read the thread on food poisoning here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Food-Poisoni...em-t245579.html

[anothertorres]

- you cannot live anywhere for 20 years without seeing *everything* change drastically over time. not in NY, not in London and certainly not in a 3d world country.

- *and*, no one told anyone to go home, you've been told to stop whining about your world is all upside down and you can't handle all of these modern amenities!

- you cannot assimilate. you turn the corner off your little enclave and you are just another farang. no one remembers you from the day before except the girl at silverstar2

[BugJackBaron]

Seems to me there are too many people living here now without really assimilating. they like the girls, nightlife and the cost of living but hate everything else. They spend their time homesick and dreaming of hotdogs, pork pies and suchlike.. So they are happy when Thailand becomes more like 'home' The rest of us who prefer 'Moo Ping' and 'Khao neaow' are gradually loosing what we loved.. and worse newbies now tell us 'if you don't like it go home'' Pretty funny when after 20 yrs this is my home. I just don't want to see it ruined like countless other towns in the name of 'progress'

Well, now, why is it "better" to be assimilated? First of all, no farang can really be assimilated, though some may have the delusion that they have been or can be. Thais won't let a farang be truly assimilated anyway. Try buying land for yourself. A farang can never be a Thai according to Thais. What's desired is that the farang's money gets assimilated while the interests of the Thai elite are enhanced and protected; Pattaya is continuing to develop to help ensure that goal. I can't wait until the day finally comes when they get rid of the baht buses.

Yet development does help ordinary Thais pull themselves out of the poverty, ignorance, fear, and superstition that enable much of what tourists condescendingly find so charming. And Thais themselves want this progress. If they didn't, then Bangkok wouldn't exist; it's not on account of the farangs.

Me, it's true, I don't want to be assimilated. I like who I am, a kind of global person. In fact, I think the more that Thais get assimilated by farang culture, with its values of freedom, individuality, rationality, equality before the law, separation of church and state, binding contracts, and democracy, the better off they'll be. (I concede that the implementation of Western values in Western countries often falls woefully short of the ideal, but Thai culture even more often falls short of its own ideals. For example, a major Buddhist stricture is against lying--believe it or not!)

Now for those pseudo-farang Thais, not to worry: there will likely always be food carts w/ moo ping and khao neaow on the streets for Thai staff from upcountry. BTW, did you read the thread on food poisoning here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Food-Poisoni...em-t245579.html

I think the danger here is that it is YOU that is being condescending.

Global citizen? Take a course in anthropology.

Yes development helps some, but not all development is equal.

Ignorance and fear? Sure. Do you think our scientific understanding is a perfect picture?

The beliefs of today may become the superstitions of the 22nd century .

I find many Thai customs charming - <snip>. And if they

want to a have a shrine inside their home that's OK too.

How about the ignorance and fear that led to the financial crisis?

You are right that body can be totally assimilated and western values may improve

life for some but not for others. I would hate to see this society, for all its problems

become a semi-police state like Britain is becoming or have 1000 laws for everything like in

America. (remember the old song "signs" "can't you read the sign"?)

Edited March 3, 2009 by soundman
Removed reference to the Monarchy.

[JSixpack]

I would hate to see this society, for all its problems

become a semi-police state like Britain is becoming or have 1000 laws for everything like in

America. (remember the old song "signs" "can't you read the sign"?)

So YOU would, but offer all the Thais a free ticket to Britain or the USA and a job there and the whole country would empty out--IF they could bring along their families. THEY know where the better standard of living is. And they would vote with their feet, never mind the mouthings. The elite would quickly pass a law against emigration.

Thailand isn't a semi-police state? Does the word "coup" ring a bell anywhere? Haven't been stopped by the police lately for a shakedown? Tried ordering a beer in a restaurant between 2 - 5 pm? Gimme a break. Seems you know nothing about Thailand really.

A lot of our besotted posters have lost sight of the advantages of the West. But why not like Britain and the USA at the same time you can like Thailand, Malaysia, Mexico, Japan, or Indonesia? Perspective, perspective.

Edited March 3, 2009 by JSixpack

[BugJackBaron]

I would hate to see this society, for all its problems

become a semi-police state like Britain is becoming or have 1000 laws for everything like in

America. (remember the old song "signs" "can't you read the sign"?)

So YOU would, but offer all the Thais a free ticket to Britain or the USA and a job there and the whole country would empty out--IF they could bring along their families. THEY know where the better standard of living is. And they would vote with their feet, never mind the mouthings. The elite would quickly pass a law against emigration.

Thailand isn't a semi-police state? Does the word "coup" ring a bell anywhere? Haven't been stopped by the police lately for a shakedown? Tried ordering a beer in a restaurant between 2 - 5 pm? Gimme a break. Seems you know nothing about Thailand really.

A lot of our besotted posters have lost sight of the advantages of the West. But why not like Britain and the USA at the same time you can like Thailand, Malaysia, Mexico, Japan, or Indonesia? Perspective, perspective.

Sure they would go. Like Koreans who went and are going. Only to find that linguistic and cultural

barriers make them want to come back. Oh and that 7 buck a hour job doesn't quite pay the bills.

Oh, did you mean give them all CEO type jobs?

Police state is relative of course;I would call it having an unstable government.

And some Thais may and do prosper in the West of course.

I agree that many farang have lost sight of the advantages of the West. But you it seems

have lost sight of the disadvantages.

[PattayaParent]

traffic is no different now that the high season is dying down and the grand opening is over. not to be a jerk but, do you people even live (and drive) here? traffic, traffic, same, same.

and, if you want to argue that traffic is up on Beach Road, that is a good thing for all of us and all of Pattaya. first we worry about no tourists coming to Pattaya, now we were that there are too many tourists coming to Pattaya. sup?

But you are being one.

I have lived and driven here for 14 years and I know when there are increases in traffic as I'm stuck in a car trying to get down the road when all the vehicles in front of me are blocking it tring to turn into the new mall.

[jellymeister]

Upon a second visit and following the "constructive" advice of other posters, I did find a few positives, although I think Central Chidlom has a way better selection of clothing......also can't understand why anyone would want to come to Thailand to eat in a foodcourt with all the great street food and thai restos outside......

[Pdaz]

traffic is no different now that the high season is dying down and the grand opening is over. not to be a jerk but, do you people even live (and drive) here? traffic, traffic, same, same.

and, if you want to argue that traffic is up on Beach Road, that is a good thing for all of us and all of Pattaya. first we worry about no tourists coming to Pattaya, now we were that there are too many tourists coming to Pattaya. sup?

Yes been living/working/driving here since early 90's... If you don't think traffic has increased in Pattaya you haven't been here very long... Not that many years back they used to turn the traffic lights to flashing amber around 23:00 hrs cos not enough cars to bother stopping them... You could park just about anywhere (for free) and Beach Rd was pretty much deserted of traffic until midday..

And why would more tourists be a good thing ? You a greedy bar owner ? Too many tourists (of all Nationalities) is exactly what the town doesn't need... Notice my use of 'too' .. By which I mean too much of a 'good' thing can be bad... Yes many businesses require them .. But if the place becomes so over built and crowded there will eventually be a backlash and they will stop coming.. Once Pattaya becomes nothing more than a shopping center... Why would they come... Maybe if the items for sale were cheap.. But they ain't anymore ..

Edited March 3, 2009 by Pdaz

[Pdaz]

Some points:

-- agreed, there is too much redundancy of existing businesses at the new mall and I also found that disappointing, but you are wrong that there are only 4 unique options, many more than that.

-- you can still get regular Thai people's Thai food in Pattaya and that is not going to change. You may just have to sometimes walk a bit inland. Good well priced authentic Thai food is even available in the mall, try the basement food court

-- if people don't want to assimilate, what skin is that off your ass? (assimilate to what anyway, most farangs here are on one year extensions at best)

Okay.. I'm happy to concede that there are more than four 'unique' options. If you take the two food courts and the newer style Oishi places.. They offer choice.. But to be honest I can find better tastier food elsewhere... The food courts are only offering more expensive 'plastic' versions . The only advantage being nice surroundings and aircon.. I'm more interested in the food than 'paying for A/C'

But to return to my original theme.. Doesn't it seem a waste to build such a huge Mall and in reality all that we can agree on being new is a few food outlets... Maybe they would have been better to forget about the other retailers and just made a five story food center...

I'd love to be able to buy decent quality name brand fashions in Pattaya but mostly they only stock the small sizes and have very little choice ( same as every other Mall) so apart from the homewares/Deli in CenDeptStore.. There isn't anything much for me to buy there.. Guess I may visit Fuji or the other Jap/Korean/Chinese places... But that's all .. and if they continue to be crowded I'll just use Big C South Pattaya or Carrefour as they are more convienient..

As for people assimilating.. We no skin off my ass.. But just seems a pointless exercise going to live in another country then not bothering to learn anything from it... I don't expect everybody to speak Thai fluently and eat Thai food daily. But I get tired of seeing fellas who have lived here for 5-6 yrs who can't order food, won't try anything new or panic when there's no toilet paper and expect everything to be 'just like home' That's just showing laziness, ignorance and complete contempt for their surroundings..

Why live somewhere if they hate it so much ?

[Jingthing]

As for people assimilating.. We no skin off my ass.. But just seems a pointless exercise going to live in another country then not bothering to learn anything from it... I don't expect everybody to speak Thai fluently and eat Thai food daily. But I get tired of seeing fellas who have lived here for 5-6 yrs who can't order food, won't try anything new or panic when there's no toilet paper and expect everything to be 'just like home' That's just showing laziness, ignorance and complete contempt for their surroundings..

Why live somewhere if they hate it so much ?

Again, WHY DO YOU CARE?

In Pattaya, IF YOU CHOOSE, you don't have to learn hardly anything about Thailand if you do not want. You don't HAVE to eat Thai food, you don't HAVE to use a Thai toilet, you don't HAVE to speak any Thai. So what if people have OTHER REASONS to be here that don't include entering the monkhood? It never bothered me to meet expats in the US that ate Indian food everyday and weren't fans of American football. I can't imagine why anyone would expend any energy morally judging other people's harmless personal choices.

Edited March 3, 2009 by Jingthing

[cochran]

Back to the original topic - I live very near the new mall and find it very convenient. I work quite long hours, and its a relief to be able to park the car and then just walk over to the mall for the supermarket or for dinner. The traffic in Pattaya really stresses me out (big change from my small-to-medium city in the US), so it works for me. I agree that there are absolutely great food choices to be had outside of the mall, but what's wrong with additional choices?

So far I've enjoyed the food at Sukishi, Hachiban, and PanPan. FoodLoft is okay, but not great for me - big on selection, but doesn't seem to be so high on quality. Overall, its about the convenience. Easier to get in and out of than Foodland or Carrefour for me at market time.

The clothing selection in Central is adequate. You can find something to fit your budget (high or low), you just have to look - just like in any other department store in the world.

All in all, it adds choice to our area. If you don't like it, don't go in, but it works for me.

[misterman21]

I also mostly go for the restaurants, cinema, and the department store. If I was in the market for electronics, I would at least compare shop at those stores as well. I am not the target market for high fashion rags. If there is a flaw in the mall, that might be it, is there really enough demand for all those hiso shops in town? The higher end tourist oriented small stall shops on the ground floor also appear quite empty.

<snip> A snippet for Newsweek: Today, nearly a fifth of the country's largest 2,000 regional malls are failing, she says, and according to the International Council of Shopping Centers, and a record 150,000 retail outlets, including such mall mainstays as the Gap and Foot Locker, will close this year. Xanadu, whose officials declined NEWSWEEK's requests for comment, has named just nine tenants for its 200 spaces.

Edited March 3, 2009 by soundman
Removed inflamatory comment.

[anothertorres]

traffic is no different now that the high season is dying down and the grand opening is over. not to be a jerk but, do you people even live (and drive) here? traffic, traffic, same, same.

and, if you want to argue that traffic is up on Beach Road, that is a good thing for all of us and all of Pattaya. first we worry about no tourists coming to Pattaya, now we were that there are too many tourists coming to Pattaya. sup?

But you are being one.

I have lived and driven here for 14 years and I know when there are increases in traffic as I'm stuck in a car trying to get down the road when all the vehicles in front of me are blocking it tring to turn into the new mall.

you're right and i apologize for being a jerk (while claiming not to be one).

[anothertorres]

Yes been living/working/driving here since early 90's... If you don't think traffic has increased in Pattaya you haven't been here very long... Not that many years back they used to turn the traffic lights to flashing amber around 23:00 hrs cos not enough cars to bother stopping them... You could park just about anywhere (for free) and Beach Rd was pretty much deserted of traffic until midday..

i wasn't referring to the last 14 years, i was referring to the *mall* being the reason that traffic has spiked. i'm sure you are correct, traffic has grown exponentially in the last 14 years. in fact, i'm sure it's grown even more so in the 30 years the white man bothered to come here.

And why would more tourists be a good thing ? You a greedy bar owner ? Too many tourists (of all Nationalities) is exactly what the town doesn't need... Notice my use of 'too' .. By which I mean too much of a 'good' thing can be bad... Yes many businesses require them .. But if the place becomes so over built and crowded there will eventually be a backlash and they will stop coming.. Once Pattaya becomes nothing more than a shopping center... Why would they come... Maybe if the items for sale were cheap.. But they ain't anymore ..

heh, no no, i'm not a greedy bar owner. in fact, i don't even have a job! but, again, i didn't mean to become argumentative and you most certainly have much more experience living here than i. i concede your point, you may very well be spot on when the future comes to town.

[Ungabunga]

Back to the original topic at hand, I strongly disagree that the place is a waste of space. Not only will it provide the street meat with somewhere that's dry during the rainy season, it gives peeping toms the platform they need to see into the View Talay 6 apartments (from the comfort of their own car) at long last.

Seriously though, the foodhall is alright, plus some of the restaurants aren't bad. The other day I went to that Coco Ichibanya (spelling?) restaurant for a Japanese curry and it was rather tremendous I must say! 190 Baht and it's a half decent portion.

So shove that up yer traffic jam!

[tropo]

Why live somewhere if they hate it so much ?

With all your complaints about the development/changes in Pattaya, I'm wondering why you still live here.

[torrenova]

I think it is a white elephant. Too much top end stuff and not enough substance to make it work. I think it will struggle.

[Chaimai]

I think it is a white elephant. Too much top end stuff and not enough substance to make it work. I think it will struggle.

I agree.

It is a "nice to have" but beyond that I can't see it being very busy once the novelty/high season has gone away. Hope I am wrong.