Massive Police Crackdown On Non Registered Bikes In Pattaya.

[Thumchok]

Been riding down Pattaya all last week , and haven't been stopped . A friend of mine was pulled up for blipping the throttle at a set of lights on central Pattaya and second rd. , given a fine and sent on his way . Went to the police station in Pattaya and paid it and picked up his license the following day .

Word from a local hire place is that it was the Chon Buri police that were doing the sting .

Looks like most of the hire places have there big bikes out for hire again .

All mine and my friends bikes have plates and road tax paid and displayed on them .

Could still be just luck though .

[thaicbr]

Basjke. you do NOT need to have a green book/registration to to have insurance and legal tax. they will use your frame number instead.

'Your tax label and insurance indicate that your bike is registered and insured and the white paper attached to the road tax label shows your name so you can prove it is registered in your name.'

So slightly wrong on that one i'm afraid. Also the issue i think is the Customs Dept who do care if the tax is paid etc.

Allan

Edited March 17, 2009 by thaicbr

[LivinLOS]

Basjke. you do NOT need to have a green book/registration to to have insurance and legal tax. they will use your frame number instead.

'Your tax label and insurance indicate that your bike is registered and insured and the white paper attached to the road tax label shows your name so you can prove it is registered in your name.'

So slightly wrong on that one i'm afraid. Also the issue i think is the Customs Dept who do care if the tax is paid etc.

Allan

Insurance yes (will they pay up tho in a big claim ??) but tax ??

Our DMV wont take tax on frame numbers without book.

[Lost in LOS]

i brought my Kawasaki from a private shop and it had red plates. i was a newbie here and they told me red plates were for pattaya, and the thai guy i brought with me to make sure everything was OK said no problem. mai pen rai attitude i'm afraid.

i had to get all the import paperwork and hired a thai big bike dealer, friend of a friend, to get me a legal book and white plates. 80k but now i have them, in my name with the proper numbers. page 18 is filled out and there is thai writing, my engine number, a couple of stamps and two signatures. Took almost 4 months to get but what a relief when i did. fun part of living in LOS

[ray23]

Let me try my question a different way

Has anyone or someone you know been stopped, with just the invoice showing import taxes paid?

If so was the bike siezed?

I have a book cost me 70K but there are lot of guys here who were told they didn't need one a few years back, which was true a few years back since it wasn't enforced. The economy stinks they are living on fixed incomes that is a big chunk of money to them. They have the import Ect, but they a afraid to ride.

So I need an answer they need to know if he bike will be siezed if they get caught up in this.

The only information I can offer at this point is don't go to Pattaya or Chaing Mai, they are not fluent english speakers and can't understand what being posted.

Can anyone offer some help on this one. I frankly don't know

[Travelmate]

Food for thought.

Tax collection is down 29% compared to last year.

[dotcom]

Thanks to sefton for researching this problem.

I would like to post up 2 green books for your information.

The first will be the VMAX & the second my CB400.

Now I don't read Thai but I can deduce that the "taxes" paid are nothing to do with customs duty. One of the numbers in the CB400 Page 18 is the plate number. Neither one mentions frame or engine number.

The second entry in the CB400 book is when the bike was registered into my name.

I agree 100% with Ant1. Looking 100% legit is going to be good enough for most roadside stops.

[LivinLOS]

I will get the missus to read those.. But from my understanding both of those bikes, would have been included on the impound and pay up fine systems on phuket !!! My CBR looks very much like your second book.. And was involved but finally after much fighting they let it out as its older than 2540.

I finally got some paperwork yesterday that proves it was impounded and released, tho I still didnt get the promised 'clearance letter' that a lawyer fought for for months, the impound release paperwork is however the next best thing.

My CBR's book is (at least) a second book and only goes back to 2547 giving credence to the idea that DMV offices 'forgot' to move this info over between books on making new ones.

I know Phuket is throwing a VERY wide net and simply extracting maximum fines possible with little understanding or compassion.

[LivinLOS]

Let me also add.. That at this point in time Phuket will not perform any name changes either on such books. Mine which even was outside of the age range they just didnt care and demand customs proof, which customs refuse to write. Typical Thai catch 22.

Of course, I could be wrong on many details, even finding out why they wont do something is hard, they just throw the books back at you and say 'no cannot'. And also dont think in any way I am trying to run this in on anyone, more make people aware of how I think they are working.

I would love if some others who must be caught up in this nonsense elsewhere in the country could lay out what thier DMV are saying, what they are demanding, and how they are interpreting this. So far no other place seems to care about page 18 only about books ?? Is that correct ??

[johnefallis]

Just curious (becuase of the phuket province issues still happening) when you buy the ER6 or FZ6 now.. What does page 18 say ?? I posted a image of a page 18 on one of my bikes.. However my scooters dont have anything there.

The situation I am saying about is real and still happening here.. If you have an old bike with no page 18 tax details.. They say it has to have them.. Yet brand new bought from main dealers (BMW) bikes, also dont have them !! So thier argument that it HAS to have them seems to fall flat when faced with this.

Of course all the info coming out of the customs people is conflicted and hinges on 'you pay big money now' !!

Dude- you having second thought about that used CBR you bought? There was probably a good reason it was so cheap... I'd keep it under cover until this all blows over.

I haven't received the new Green Book for my ER-6n but I did snap a pic of the last Green Book for my Ninja 250R-

Sorry- don't recall what, if anything, was on page 18...

I'm not at all concerned since I know my bikes are completely legit, but once again this crack down serves to illustrate the risks and pitfalls of buying grey market bikes here in Thailand. Caveat Emptor!

I'm a little confused.... what exactly is the purpose of this BIG green book cover scan????

[johnefallis]

In the West these confiscated bike would end up in a police auction, well they do here in Oz. Any chance of that happening...or have members of the BIB already put their mark on the ones they want for themselves?

We must applaud the BIB for making the footpath (goat track) on the East side of Beach Rd less of a trial...although it may only be briefly!

How thick are you in OZ??? Think you'll find your to the East!!

Does anybody even understand/know what this guy is saying???

Long thread to read, irritated by what seems to be jibberish...

[johnefallis]

What a bunch of crap. I guess this all makes up my mind for me. I'll buy a new "made in Thailand" Honda Sonic, for cheap, that can be repaired easily anywhere within the countries of Asia and Europe where it is sold under one name or another, and maybe a Thai built CBR 150. Leave my big bike in U.S. and not buy one here. Save money, and still fit between the cars in traffic. I don't need the headache. To the rest of you....Good Luck!

[LivinLOS]

Sorry- don't recall what, if anything, was on page 18...

I'm not at all concerned since I know my bikes are completely legit, but once again this crack down serves to illustrate the risks and pitfalls of buying grey market bikes here in Thailand. Caveat Emptor!

I'm a little confused.... what exactly is the purpose of this BIG green book cover scan????

The outside of the book says nothing of course..

Whats most annoying is 'legal' machines such as Dotcoms 2 books, my cbr, or another posters BMW do not have any page 18 stamp.. Yet my local DMV and customs consider these illegal books, wont change names, and impound and fine.

Now is this what the customs and DMV's of other regions are doing ?? What will the DMV do when someone brings in a bought from main dealer Kwaker or BMW thats missing those ?? Its just a Thai mess !!

[BigBikeBKK]

The outside of the book says nothing of course..

Whats most annoying is 'legal' machines such as Dotcoms 2 books, my cbr, or another posters BMW do not have any page 18 stamp.. Yet my local DMV and customs consider these illegal books, wont change names, and impound and fine.

Now is this what the customs and DMV's of other regions are doing ?? What will the DMV do when someone brings in a bought from main dealer Kwaker or BMW thats missing those ?? Its just a Thai mess !!

I think I mentioned to you earlier that I had no difficulties whatsoever selling my Kawasaki Ninja 250R despite the fact that page 18 of the Green Book was blank... It was registered in Bangkok, sold in Chiang Mai and Chiang Mai DMV issued a new Chiang Mai Green Book and number plate to the new owner in less than a week.

Seems to me that the Phuket DMV has some serious issues! Arbitrarily seizing property and putting the burden of proof on the owner is very bold. Guilty until proven innocent. I'm quite amazed they can get away with it. I think you mentioned that some victims of the Phuket "crackdown" had retained an attorney. After all, there are some bikers in Phuket with big connections in business and politics. I can't imagine they would take this lying down. Seems it would be to everyones benefit to have the relevant laws analyzed, and if police corruption is to blame for the mess in Phuket then a lawsuit would be in order.

Good luck!

[LivinLOS]

Thats one reason why I keep trying to raise the issue and keep it front and center..

Secondly to make people aware that if they do go to buy a bike, then if they are on phuket, theres more pitfalls out there than simply bike / book / frame numbers / etc..

[dotcom]

If I were in charge of the charity ride I think I would arrange a meeting with the Govenor to see if the Gestapo could be kept in their cages.

Snatch & grab tactics are reprehensible.

[dotcom]

Sorry wrong thread

[JimsKnight]

What a bunch of crap. I guess this all makes up my mind for me. I'll buy a new "made in Thailand" Honda Sonic, for cheap, that can be repaired easily anywhere within the countries of Asia and Europe where it is sold under one name or another, and maybe a Thai built CBR 150. Leave my big bike in U.S. and not buy one here. Save money, and still fit between the cars in traffic. I don't need the headache. To the rest of you....Good Luck!

Don't let it get to you man, you can still do the big bike thing here.

On new bikes like the Ninja 250 not having the page 18 filled in. My assumption is because they aren't liable for import tariffs / tax. The threshold for import tax was lifted a year ago to 250cc from 200cc.

[ray23]

Remember things have changed for the better on the last few years. Now you can get big bikes at manufactor's authorized dealers, complely legal so no hazzle at all.

[JimsKnight]

True, but you've got to pay the piper to get it. Triumphs are mega-baht, along with the yammy R1s and R6s etc.

I love the big bikes they are bringing out too. You get what you pay for.

The crackdowns, I feel, will drive the price of bikes on the 2nd hand bike market up up and away!

I know the kawasaki Erxxx machine is affordable, but how easy is it to fix some of these wonder bikes in the back of beyond with a small budget?

A buddy of mine has a beautiful BMW 1200cc touring palace on wheels. But to get anything done on it (exluding basic sht like oil changes) he has to load it onto a pick-up (3500 baht a pop) sent from BMW HQ in Bangkok or Phuket. He often tells me he longs for the Jap sports bikes with little or no complications.

But somehow, in times to come a few will be nostalgic dreaming of the 'wild-west' era of rogue bikes, and laissez faire regulations of previous years.

You never knew what the real story was with them. But there was hardly anyone else riding them and it was all fun and games with little or no police hassle.

But times move on I guess, a new era for big biking? Quite possibly....

[BigBikeBKK]

On new bikes like the Ninja 250 not having the page 18 filled in. My assumption is because they aren't liable for import tariffs / tax. The threshold for import tax was lifted a year ago to 250cc from 200cc.

I understand your logic, however the Green Book for my 650cc ER6n is also blank on page 18... So the page 18 mystery continues...

[BigBikeBKK]

The crackdowns, I feel, will drive the price of bikes on the 2nd hand bike market up up and away!

Quite to the contrary- the prices of used bikes with dodgy books has fallen through the floor. All of these guys with red plates or no plates and dodgy books can't ride their bikes now for fear of having them confiscated and as a result there are a ton of guys trying to sell their used bikes and not too many people that dare to buy them. So, basic supply and demand.

[ray23]

When was the last time a bike was actually siezed are we done now?

[Beacher]

Hi All,

Monsterman reported the following on the GTRider forum:

Over 80 bikes seized so far value in excess of 25m baht mostly big rental bikes 600cc+ Fireblades, GSXRs, steeds

This is co-ordinated by Central Bangkok police and Customs, no Insurance , no book ,no plates, import taxes not paid and the bike is seized.

Now very few big rental bikes on Pattaya beach road.

the shops were also raided but not much problem there as the owners know that books are important.

Part II-

Its now on the TV news ,,, sure the cops smell money but it much more than that its political.. pattaya city wanted the rentals off beach road clogging up parking places ...the renters just put 2 fingers to the City hall... so now its

get heavy time and bring in the big boys from Bangkok.....This is going to cost the main big bike renters a lot of money and most of them are actually Muslims in Pattaya.

Many of the bikes have no import papers and are stolen so they are history , others have never beeen bothered to get registered as its expensive etc most have no insurance so its going to be a mess. Some will be bought back by the renters and some will just rust to bits in police custody others will go to new police owners and then business as normal will resume.Its Thailand.

I doubt it. I can't see the cops just letting potential extra revenue from selling those bike pass them by. They will use their connections to get papers for the bikes, and we will either see them in BIB driveways or being sold for a little extra tea money.

[neverdie]

On new bikes like the Ninja 250 not having the page 18 filled in. My assumption is because they aren't liable for import tariffs / tax. The threshold for import tax was lifted a year ago to 250cc from 200cc.

I understand your logic, however the Green Book for my 650cc ER6n is also blank on page 18... So the page 18 mystery continues...

I don't understand why page 18 is blank on you new er6n when page 18 has information & stamps recorded on it for my buzz box which was newly purchased a couple of years ago?

If I have the book all stamped up, why hasnt this been done for your green book?

[neverdie]

Sorry- don't recall what, if anything, was on page 18...

I'm not at all concerned since I know my bikes are completely legit, but once again this crack down serves to illustrate the risks and pitfalls of buying grey market bikes here in Thailand. Caveat Emptor!

I'm a little confused.... what exactly is the purpose of this BIG green book cover scan????

The outside of the book says nothing of course..

Whats most annoying is 'legal' machines such as Dotcoms 2 books, my cbr, or another posters BMW do not have any page 18 stamp.. Yet my local DMV and customs consider these illegal books, wont change names, and impound and fine.

Now is this what the customs and DMV's of other regions are doing ?? What will the DMV do when someone brings in a bought from main dealer Kwaker or BMW thats missing those ?? Its just a Thai mess !!

LivinLos,

I don't understand why you are saying dotcoms 2 bikes have no page 18 stamps, when the photocopies he supplied show that info?

Maybe its a typo.

Edited March 24, 2009 by neverdie

[LivinLOS]

OK no stamp showing taxes paid then..

His stamps do not list the initial tax paid on registration or import as parts or whole. My CBR has many many stamps, the most recent being the past owner to me only a short while ago (which looks just like the stamp on dotcoms top book, but I have a few lines of this one for each previous owner in the book).. but it doesnt state the taxes paid. Phuket insist on tax paid info there, what they say on dealer sold bikes without this, and how they know a bike is main dealer sold versus grey import sold, is a total mystery. I suspect they dont know themselves and just say no and refer everyone to the customs if its missing a stamp.

Finding out what the problem is.. Is one of the hardest things.. they kind of just throw the books back in your face with a disdainful 'no' and rattle of in fast Thai that even Thais come away from totally baffled and confused. Or turn on thier heel and walk away, ignore you while you wait at the counter, all of the Thai standard responses to a problem they dont want to deal with in a gov office. No one with blank books dare show thier face to go ask. And as I said the DMV are refusing to transfer bikes outside of the date range this even applies to, with no reasons why, no explanations, and no apology when 2 or so months later I finally got customs clearance and the paperwork stating it had been inspected and released. 2 months or more to get a name changed on a legal book !! A transfer that would never have happened if the sellers wife wasnt a connected local with friends inside all these government offices.

[Bard]

For all the rumor mill;

The stamp on page 18 is not essential guys, where did that come from?

What they clamp down on in particular is this, every bigbike registered in the Kingdom has frame number, engine number and a photo taken when they are registered, a shitload of bikes was registered under fake books, by using an old bike they forged the book and put your bike in, what they forgot was that the Land Transportation Department have used years to put all this into computers, so now when they bang in your registration and say you ride a CBR 1000 RR but the picture show a Shadow 200, frame number is incorrect etc. You then have forged papers which is a criminal act. Hence they impound your bike, as they would in the rest of the world as well.

It's pretty easy to check up, go to the land transportation department, ask for the details for the bike with the registration number and voila they will tell you what bike it supposed to be, with the supposed frame number etc. If that comes out dry, you're perfectly fine.

Also I have ridden in almost every province from Central and up for 3 weeks now with red plates stating "Test Bike" in English and I have not been stopped once for it, been in Bangkok, Pattaya numerous times, and Chiang Mai with no problems whatsoever.

Cheers Bard

[neverdie]

OK no stamp showing taxes paid then..

His stamps do not list the initial tax paid on registration or import as parts or whole. My CBR has many many stamps, the most recent being the past owner to me only a short while ago (which looks just like the stamp on dotcoms top book, but I have a few lines of this one for each previous owner in the book).. but it doesnt state the taxes paid. Phuket insist on tax paid info there, what they say on dealer sold bikes without this, and how they know a bike is main dealer sold versus grey import sold, is a total mystery. I suspect they dont know themselves and just say no and refer everyone to the customs if its missing a stamp.

Finding out what the problem is.. Is one of the hardest things.. they kind of just throw the books back in your face with a disdainful 'no' and rattle of in fast Thai that even Thais come away from totally baffled and confused. Or turn on thier heel and walk away, ignore you while you wait at the counter, all of the Thai standard responses to a problem they dont want to deal with in a gov office. No one with blank books dare show thier face to go ask. And as I said the DMV are refusing to transfer bikes outside of the date range this even applies to, with no reasons why, no explanations, and no apology when 2 or so months later I finally got customs clearance and the paperwork stating it had been inspected and released. 2 months or more to get a name changed on a legal book !! A transfer that would never have happened if the sellers wife wasnt a connected local with friends inside all these government offices.

Sorry Livin, just trying to work out whats going on. Sounds like you've had a frustrating time. I don't have any taxes paid stamps on my green book either, thats only for my little bike which was new when i bought it.....maybe the cops are gonna take it too

[LivinLOS]

For all the rumor mill;

The stamp on page 18 is not essential guys, where did that come from?

Phuket customs and phuket DMV.

The customs fines (50 - 20k I have heard as ranges) on any bike newer than 2540 without that stamp. They say it HAS to have some tax info.

What they clamp down on in particular is this, every bigbike registered in the Kingdom has frame number, engine number and a photo taken when they are registered, a shitload of bikes was registered under fake books, by using an old bike they forged the book and put your bike in, what they forgot was that the Land Transportation Department have used years to put all this into computers, so now when they bang in your registration and say you ride a CBR 1000 RR but the picture show a Shadow 200, frame number is incorrect etc. You then have forged papers which is a criminal act. Hence they impound your bike, as they would in the rest of the world as well.

Of course wrong age / model / make anything is a dead giveaway.. But thats not whats happening on Phuket.

It's pretty easy to check up, go to the land transportation department, ask for the details for the bike with the registration number and voila they will tell you what bike it supposed to be, with the supposed frame number etc. If that comes out dry, you're perfectly fine.

Again.. not here.

I am not saying this is country wide. I am not saying its the true facts as they either should be.. I may have some part of this wrong.. I readily admit any of that and would love for people also having bikes impounded to add more data.

But those are the facts that are in effect on Phuket. A lack of page 18 tax info in the book and a post 2540 bike and they impound and wont release without fines.. DMV also wont make name transfers to new owners until thats been paid and even refused to do a name transfer on a older than 2540 bike until a clearance letter came from customs which they refused to give, only by a long complex series of pushes and the fact that this very bike had been impounded and released (thanks to a Thai lawyer contact) was a name change effected.