Massive Police Crackdown On Non Registered Bikes In Pattaya.

[HamSabai]

That's an update from the OP on gt riders forum:

"Situation in Pattaya for large BigBike rentals is now a ghost town. The Police have impounded over 200 bikes now mostly Japanese 400-1500cc but some others as well. The bikes have customs and Bangkok DSI notices on them so local police are powerless . This is very serious stuff.

There are only a handful of legal large rental bikes now available they are legal bikes with proper registration and insurance but probably no more then 20-30 bikes in total.

Some people have been stopped when riding big bikes and if its an illegal rental the bike has been impounded .

The shops were also raided this week but most were in compliance with the law.

I would be very careful if riding any big bike around here that was not legal now."

Looks like serious sh*t indeed.

[LivinLOS]

I have four bikes, one I bought new from Honda here in CNX the second was one I imported from the States and the other two are big bikes I bought from private owners in Thailand. Page 18 is filled out in my two books for the bikes I bought from the private owners and has their name printed as previous owner. My import's page 18 is blank because I am the original owner here in Thailand. Never mine that it is a used bike. The last book is blank because I bought the bike new from a Honda dealer. Hope this helps clarify what page 18 seems to be used for.

Did you do your import 100% legit ??

One of my bikes has a blank page 18 and was a private import (UK bike) and thats one that can be a problem.. Mine is outside of the date range that it should apply but they dont seem to care or really know. Was released from an impound but they refuse to give it an 'all clear' in writing.

Thats Phuket anyway.. they currently wont change names on blank page 18 imports for after 2540 year. Even on 'legit' books that are understood to be 100% in order. I am not bothered as having modified it they wont do name changes on it anyway with any mods, even super simple stuff.

Yes, 100% legal, letter from Ministry of Commerce giving permission too. We'll see what happens when I ever decide to sell it.

Interesting as my machine (page 18 blank) was also privately done by previous owner one before last (is my understanding)..

So they demand a stamp, that they seem to forget to do !!

Another machine without this stamp turns out they didnt bother to move that data over when the old book was filled and they issued a new book ?!?! So because someone in an office was lazy a few years ago now farang pays..

[BigBikeBKK]

I have four bikes, one I bought new from Honda here in CNX the second was one I imported from the States and the other two are big bikes I bought from private owners in Thailand. Page 18 is filled out in my two books for the bikes I bought from the private owners and has their name printed as previous owner. My import's page 18 is blank because I am the original owner here in Thailand. Never mine that it is a used bike. The last book is blank because I bought the bike new from a Honda dealer. Hope this helps clarify what page 18 seems to be used for.

Did you do your import 100% legit ??

One of my bikes has a blank page 18 and was a private import (UK bike) and thats one that can be a problem.. Mine is outside of the date range that it should apply but they dont seem to care or really know. Was released from an impound but they refuse to give it an 'all clear' in writing.

Thats Phuket anyway.. they currently wont change names on blank page 18 imports for after 2540 year. Even on 'legit' books that are understood to be 100% in order. I am not bothered as having modified it they wont do name changes on it anyway with any mods, even super simple stuff.

Yes, 100% legal, letter from Ministry of Commerce giving permission too. We'll see what happens when I ever decide to sell it.

Interesting as my machine (page 18 blank) was also privately done by previous owner one before last (is my understanding)..

So they demand a stamp, that they seem to forget to do !!

Another machine without this stamp turns out they didnt bother to move that data over when the old book was filled and they issued a new book ?!?! So because someone in an office was lazy a few years ago now farang pays..

I don't get it LivinLOS- my last two bikes here in Thailand were bought new from Kawasaki and the green books for both are blank on page 18... What's this stamp you're talking about? Are you sure the coppers in Phuket aren't just making it up? And why say "someone in an office was lazy a few years ago now farang pays"? Do you believe Thais are exempt, or this is a scam perpetrated only on foreigners? No need to make it into a racial issue, unless you can prove that it is...

[thaicbr]

Tony can you remember if page 18 was stamped AFTER you transferred it to the guy in CM. it could just be stamped if its sold from the original owner. and Phuket police are just doing the farang dont know so we do em sort of sting...................maybe.

Anyway welcome back after ya trip. just waiting for the stories and piccys now.

Allan

[davidgtr]

I don't get it LivinLOS- my last two bikes here in Thailand were bought new from Kawasaki and the green books for both are blank on page 18... What's this stamp you're talking about? Are you sure the coppers in Phuket aren't just making it up? And why say "someone in an office was lazy a few years ago now farang pays"? Do you believe Thais are exempt, or this is a scam perpetrated only on foreigners? No need to make it into a racial issue, unless you can prove that it is...

Yeah yeah, come on Livinlost, spill the beans on exactly what do you mean about P18?

1. One of my bikes has a blank page 18 and was a private import (UK bike) and thats one that can be a problem??

2. Mine is outside of the date range that it should apply but they dont seem to care or really know??

3. Was released from an impound but they refuse to give it an 'all clear' in writing??

4. They currently wont change names on blank page 18 imports for after 2540 year??

Please clarify the mysteries of page 18!

What is the purpose of P18?

What should / shouldn't P18 have?

What is the date range for P18 / for what?

Edited March 13, 2009 by davidgtr

[LivinLOS]

I don't get it LivinLOS- my last two bikes here in Thailand were bought new from Kawasaki and the green books for both are blank on page 18... What's this stamp you're talking about? Are you sure the coppers in Phuket aren't just making it up? And why say "someone in an office was lazy a few years ago now farang pays"? Do you believe Thais are exempt, or this is a scam perpetrated only on foreigners? No need to make it into a racial issue, unless you can prove that it is...

I hopefully will have some more to say on this topic in a few more days / next week.. I have made finding out more and pushing for clarity a personal mission, made a pain in the arse of myself in the DMV and customs and even have the local paper possibly interested on covering some of this nonsense. I dont want to jinx it as I had news this week of a development. I am in the rare position of being in the situation of no stamp yet the bike was impounded and released, hence I am one of the few people who can safely ask questions and push, anyone else cant as they are scared they show a book or bike and it will vanish to be ransommed back.

1) Its not the coppers.. Its a combination of extreme awkwardness in the DMV and customs. Of course the cops are no help.

2) The LAW says it is for year 2540 up to current.. The DMV are applying it to bikes even outside this date range. They say EVERY bike HAS to have a page 18 tax info record.

3) Its being applied to Thais and farangs alike as far as I know, but it seems the farang bikes are being actively targeted and farangs paying FAR higher multiples of fines / bribes to get them back. Theres even reports that the customs office had people scoping out patong condo car parks and confiscating bikes parked outside of homes !! Its very hard to prove or know this for sure as you cant tell who pays what, you dont know whose been involved, etc etc. For each person this happens to its new info for them so they lie and apply it to anyone (outside date ranges etc) people simply dont know the law and the customs office obviously dont lay it out clearly as its not in their interest. They simply 'forget' to tell people its 2540 and newer, if someone can find this out (where the law, who knows, etc) they will release older bikes without fine, but if you dont know this, they will still happily collect 30k off you to give it back. One guy has a lawyer fighting to reclaim his wrongfully paid fine... Good luck with that !!

The page 18 should have a stamp to show the taxes paid at import or registration on post 2540 bikes. It is obvious that many legally imported bikes and bought new bikes (proven by posters on here who did the import themselves, bikes new from BMW, bikes new from kwaker) dont have these stamps, yet were fully legally processed.. Phuket seem not to care about any details, no stamp means fines and backtaxing the import duty. They are also very 'creative' about how the get to these numbers, one guy I know paid 5k others have paid 30k.

What happens when they find a bike thats obviously brand new dealer sold and doesnt have a stamp ?? fuc_k knows, the problem is no one will tell you anything, they simply refuse to provide any clarity, the less anyone understand the wider the net they can throw. But if you have a older bike, one with no dealer chain, with exactly the same book info, or you self imported it, they say its not paid its tax and they now want it.

[LivinLOS]

Please clarify the mysteries of page 18!

What is the purpose of P18?

What should / shouldn't P18 have?

What is the date range for P18 / for what?

I have said what I know if a few threads the summery is this..

Page 18 on the book should state the tax for an imported bike. I have seen a few, one said it was imported whole and taxes paid = xxxx, my bandit says bike was imported as parts and taxes paid are xxxx. My CBR (was imported legally) says nothing. Heres a photo of my Bandit showing 'from parts' tax..

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/post-a67720-.html

This is what they want to see.. Also of note is the bandit is outside of the date range its 'needed' but the DMV is ignoring needed range anyway. You can also see at some point a DMV guy made a stamp and them tippexed out the stamp to put something else, wow did they make a big deal about that, its my fault they did something to my book !!

Many many bikes have no page 18 stamp even tho they are understood to be legal. If thats the case Phuket will not transfer ownership, and if the customs catch you, find the bike they confiscate and backtax you. If your clued up to the rules, AND the bike is outside the date range, AND you get a Thai to negotiate and fight, you can sometimes get the bike back without a big fine.

Many bikes bought brand new from BMW and Kwaker also have no stamp.. What will the customs and DMV say then ?? I assume nothing but how do they know it was bought new or imported, its like they have a blanket rule except for when they dont. What about the guys who legally imported thier bikes themselves and have no stamp (one posted on here) they would I am sure get caught up in this, maybe if they kept all thier import reciepts and paperwork they might get lucky but the next guy who buys it.. Shit out of luck.

Phuket is currently mega bike unfriendly.. They also wont transfer any bike thats been 'modified' in anyway.. Down to LED indicators and tail lights.. What they say to the Thai guys with home built choppers god knows, they are not looking for a couple hundred baht to 'slide' an inspection either.. Think 5 - 10k to turn a blind eye !! My CBR had a broken indicator, broken mirror, and scratched / cracked fairing (it had been dropped) and it took a local Thai lawyer type to go and put them straight, they are that blunt and stubborn. I had even used a Thai to send it through so as not to show my white face in there.

[LivinLOS]

Sorry if I get worked up about this, but I am a stickler for being ripped off and injustice. I have always taken a 'when in Rome' attitude to books, as poster on here know, but with that I also had a live by the sword die by the sword attitude, if you have a bent book then if you lose the bike or pay big fines, dont cry about it, those are the risks. But this is happening to bikes understood to be fully legal, bikes that are not grey books, bikes that only last year the DMV / customs were totally OK with.

Let me just emphasize thier MO and how out of order they are.. Mate of mine had a low value bike, he was leaving back to Oz, arranged a sale with a mate for an amount (around 50k IIRC) as it needed some work, with a deal he would ride it until the last week and transfer over near the end so he had wheels. Bike goes in for some overhaul the new owner wanted and its scooped up in a raid. Bike has no page 18 stamp BUT the bike is older than the 2540 age range.. No fine should be applied. This all happens about 2 - 3 weeks before matey is due to fly.

So first off he fights for his bike back.. He finds out through a lawyer (as there was 10 or so bikes taken at once they all paid a lawyer to group nego for them) that the age range is not applicable to his machine.. So he demands it back.. Things go slowly... As he flat out needs to make the sale, he goes and pushes, makes the mistake of explaining he HAS to have the bike back becuase its sold and hes leaving on such and such a date. Now they know they have him over a barrel.

End result, they flat out said, this rule doesnt apply to this bike, but unless you give us xx,xxx we will hold it until after you leave !! In the end he got that number down to 5k a day or two before he flew and paid it to make the sale happen as it was that or lose it all. He was ready to petrol bomb the customs office on the way to the airport as he left Thailand !! Just total stress, lies and manipulation to gouge someone whose leaving. Welcome to Phuket !!

EDIT :: I forgot another twist to this story.. When he begged for hit bike back (that they had no right to keep) they admitted the book didnt need a page 18 stamp.. But then the customs guy said "bring me the first ever registration book for this bike, so we know its not a forgery !!" The DMV keeps the old books when they give you a new one !! When you fill a book or get a new one issued you dont have that.. Basically he demanded something he know it was impossible to provide !! A process of keep inventing demands until theres one the owner cant comply with.

Edited March 14, 2009 by LivinLOS

[JimsKnight]

Right, just checked my book, built before 2540 and page 18 has two stamps and a bunch of thai writing in. That'll do for me!

Has anyone actually been pulled over and had their green book checked, cause it sounds to me as though they are just checking bike shops and not pulling dudes over.

Edited March 14, 2009 by JimsKnight

[LivinLOS]

Right, just checked my book, built before 2540 and page 18 has two stamps and a bunch of thai writing in. That'll do for me!

Has anyone actually been pulled over and had their green book checked, cause it sounds to me as though they are just checking bike shops and not pulling dudes over.

They are not pulling people on the road..

They are raiding bike shops and mechanics and just taking everything in there, plus refusing transfers and name changes. I also have been told (unconfirmed) that they have been scouting condo car parks in Patong and coming back to take bikes away from private owners.. This sounds a long shot and I am unsure if I totally believe it.

Edited March 14, 2009 by LivinLOS

[HamSabai]

[

They are not pulling people on the road..

I think you are wrong, thats from the OP on gt rider:

"The bad news is that the police are stopping big bikes at random and asking to see the books and insurance,, already 3 bikes have been impounded for no legal books a Harley and Susuki GSXR and a Goldwing .Also another HD was impoundeds even though it had a book it was not a legal bookbut one of the dodgy Chantaburi stolen books. The owner is going to have to completely reregister the bike which will cost about 100,000.

They are going to slowly go through all the local bikes .

My wife was stopped today on her Rebel 250 but its all OK and legal as is my Ducati both registered in Bangkok on the main Computer and then Books transferred to Chonburi.

I am not worried but I urge anyone who has any fears about the legality or probity of your bikes registration to take action."

[LivinLOS]

Sorry yes, I didnt mean country wide, I meant locally here on Phuket. they do have roadblocks all the time but only for helmets, no tax, no plates.. I should have been clearer.

Tho what happens if I ride upcountry and theres a roadblock ?? I have to carry my books everywhere now ??

[aberman1970]

In the West these confiscated bike would end up in a police auction, well they do here in Oz. Any chance of that happening...or have members of the BIB already put their mark on the ones they want for themselves?

We must applaud the BIB for making the footpath (goat track) on the East side of Beach Rd less of a trial...although it may only be briefly!

How thick are you in OZ??? Think you'll find your to the East!!

[JimsKnight]

He's using the term to mean westerners.

They actually do have police auctions here in Pattaya but it's usually for the smaller bikes alas.

[basjke]

As far as I know is that imported bikes from before a certain date,might be 2540,had the import details printed on a separate paper instead of printed in the green book.

[LivinLOS]

Thats interesting.. And is something I could understand as to the cause of the problems, also can see how its lead to some offices doing it one way and others doing it another way, and making the whole mess thats currently happening.

Does anyone know what basis the Patts and CM bike confiscations are being done under ?? Is it the same page 18 duty issues or in those clampdowns is it just 'any in the system book' that satisfies them. I mean in CM theres so many unplated bikes, it would seem odd to go from no plates and books to dotting every i and crossing every t in one jump.

[Dave the Dude]

Sorry not followed EVERY comment here, but wonder if there is any Countrywide plan to roll out this action?

Here in Isaan the police themselves patrol on unregistered bikes ??

Dave

[ray23]

Off topic a bit but it came up. There is a data base that show Japenese stolen bikes. If it is stolen it's stolen, doesn't matter from where. What the Thai Police and the government agencies would do with that I don't know. But since the push seems to be agianst unlawful books my guess it we ill be seized. But that is just a guess. A poster on here found himslef in that exact situation, his bike is on that list. He wanted to knw what to do. I don't know that but I do know what not to do, admit your in pssesion of a stolen property on a publc forum. We are not the only ones who read this forum. Think a bit before yuo post somethign like that.

Ok back to topic seems to me like I saw somewhere (there are so many forums talking about this I don't remember which one) There woudl be a meetin in Pattay this weekend to try to find out how to resolve these issues leaglly befoer your bike is siezed. Does anyone know if that happened?

If so were any issues resolved as to making sure your bike is legal?

Being upsert about this and crying in our ber isnlt going to reslove anyhtin. We need answers now and directions to follow. Or take the chance.

I have seen no activity at all in Issan doesn't meant that it won't happen, just hasn't happened yet.

It would seem to me that the best thing to do since it's obvious this is not the normal rumors if you value your bike you need to get this resolved.

[Kf6vci]

Is anyone challenging these bureaucRATS? There should be absolute clarity as to requirements and some kind of an amnesty would make sense.

A 213% duty stinks - seems someone studied mercantilism

The whole system stinks. Seems there is a need for American style title insurance and escrow when one buys a bike! Moreover, insurance is needed against the probability of import duty or some other fee might be claimed at a later stage.

Once, I shipped a limited edition SR 500 with drum brake in the front to San Diego. customs gave me 1 year, then the bike needed to leave the USA. Otherwise, a crash test and other nonsense was required. (There is a list of bikes - if yours is not on the list, don't bother). other countries are terrible, too. Take Germany, they will count the light bulbs as there is a special tax on them!!

There's a new big bike shop in my neighborhood, less 1 km from the old Don Mueang airport and wat Don Mueang. But none of the import bikes have registration.

[LopBuriJeff]

Off topic a bit but it came up. There is a data base that show Japenese stolen bikes. If it is stolen it's stolen, doesn't matter from where. What the Thai Police and the government agencies would do with that I don't know. But since the push seems to be agianst unlawful books my guess it we ill be seized. But that is just a guess. A poster on here found himslef in that exact situation, his bike is on that list. He wanted to knw what to do. I don't know that but I do know what not to do, admit your in pssesion of a stolen property on a publc forum. We are not the only ones who read this forum. Think a bit before yuo post somethign like that.

Ok back to topic seems to me like I saw somewhere (there are so many forums talking about this I don't remember which one) There woudl be a meetin in Pattay this weekend to try to find out how to resolve these issues leaglly befoer your bike is siezed. Does anyone know if that happened?

If so were any issues resolved as to making sure your bike is legal?

Being upsert about this and crying in our ber isnlt going to reslove anyhtin. We need answers now and directions to follow. Or take the chance.

I have seen no activity at all in Issan doesn't meant that it won't happen, just hasn't happened yet.

It would seem to me that the best thing to do since it's obvious this is not the normal rumors if you value your bike you need to get this resolved.

I think you misunderstood me or I didn't make myself clear.

Everything indicates that the green book is legit...The frame number obviously hasn't been restamped, the import duties seems to have been paid ( there's a few lines on page 18 with 2 signatures, I don't read Thai but it's probably it), the date of entry on Thai soil seems to match more or less with the year model of the bike, and all taxes and government insurance have always been paid since then.

Thats why I dont understand why it is listed as stolen on this website. What I would like to do now is to check directly with the registration department in bangkok and ask them what they think about this book. Anybody knows how to do that?

[ray23]

I'm glad yuo responded here is the problem with that Web site the bike could have been stolen in Japan and recovered and the web site not updated. the only site I would trust is the one the cops in Japan have. I just wouldn't talk about it on here.

Unfortuantely this registration issue can be a lot more complicated then the way it appears.

We will use me for an example this time Mine is registered in Bangkok, was actually put in the data base how would I know? I have no control over that. I paid my money waited a few months and eventually got the plate and book. Nothing unusual about the transaction at all. So I'm probably OK. But I don't really know that to be a fact.

A important aspect to remember it' not just farrang big bikes being siezed it's Thais and little bikes as well. The law ha always been there they could have enforced it anytime anyone who been here in any length of time riding bikes knows that.

What is missing to me now is what do we do now, to get the bikes legal befoer they are siezed. What is the proceedure that they will accept. The only one who really know that are the people seizing the bikes and they don't seem to be saying anyhting. Accept on a individaul basis a the bike is seized.

That's a bit hard to understand cause either way would create revenue, which seems to be the goal.

[JimsKnight]

Ok, so say if a bike is listed as stolen on this aforementioned 'website' BUT has been legally registered, paid the dues to the thai authorities then it technically is under the thai system now and not the Japanese one the fact it was once stolen is a moot point now they are here.

Kosovo, Macedonia, the middle-east are awash with stolen cars from Europe, Germany being one such place.

So the police actually trying to seize a 'legally' registered bike is pretty much a ruse for cash IMO. Kind of like, ok register it on the system a second time for more cash please!

Was in Pattaya until yesterday and never got into hassle with the cops while on the roads there.

Must be riding lucky I guess.

[ray23]

If this web sire is the omne I think it is it is not ran by the jJpenese Government. So I wouldn't worry about it much

[LivinLOS]

Including the issue of a japanese stolen bike (which I hear is common sadly) is muddying the water..

Everything I ahve heard is this is nothing to do with stolen bikes, and all to do with unregged, or regged but no proven tax history.

Unregged I have to say I feel you know the risks when you do it.. But the guys with 'legal' books who only last year the DMV 'passed' and all was fine, and who now want back tax from up to almost 15 years ago.. well thats just wrong.

[LopBuriJeff]

Ok, so say if a bike is listed as stolen on this aforementioned 'website' BUT has been legally registered, paid the dues to the thai authorities then it technically is under the thai system now and not the Japanese one the fact it was once stolen is a moot point now they are here.

Well that's what I was thinking as well, but wanted the opinion of other peoples.

I can't be 100% sure that the rego and papers are legit, not sure it's in the main Bangkok computer, that's what i would like to check, but not sure how it can be done.

[AnthonyR1]

not sure if i'm way off base with this BUT i believe that appearing 100% legal is just about as good as being 100% legal. what i mean is if you have a green book that you or a previous owner actually paid for, a plate and stickers then you're fine.

[JimsKnight]

This is my initial feeling.

But all this breezy wind and noise about Japanese NDT experts who will x-ray frames and that people 'might' have a bent book (quite how a typical beat / highway cop can tell is anybodies guess).

So for the record, can all those bikers who've been pulled over, while in possession of their green book please put there hands up and tell all on what happened next...

i.e copper perused with a fine tooth comb and muttered for tea money, gave it the once over, threw it back etc etc.???

AFAIK my book is genuine, but if the BIB are playing the game I think they are, then there is a good chance they'll try and blag that a genuine book is bent, to see if there's any cash to shake out of the money tree

Edited March 15, 2009 by JimsKnight

[basjke]

Don't know where monsterman gets his info from but I think he like to wind up people.

First of all you are not required,actually you are advised against to keep your registration book together with your bike at anytime.

Your tax label and insurance indicate that your bike is registered and insured and the white paper attached to the road tax label shows your name so you can prove it is registered in your name.

But even that is not important to them as long as the roadtax is paid and the bike insured.Otherwise what to do with hundreds or maybe thousands of rental bikes in pattaya.You think the patron will give you the green book to carry with you.

Second there is no cop in the whole of thailand that can see if your book is genuine or not.Unless it is a real bogus book which shows a different bike brand or wrong frame number.The only one who can detect this is the registration office and actually they will only find out when you transfer the bike.

And imho once the bike is imported and registered legally they will not go look again if the bike is on the stolen bikes list.They will look into that matter before they accept the import and registration.

I also know from a good source that in the past 15 years there were a total of 3(three) bikes confiscated by police in Pattaya for being illegal in the country.

[ray23]

Time for a little rumor Control:

A local dealer here is telling the guys wihtout books that if they go to Bangkok and pay the taxes on the bike they don't need the book and the Police won't sieze it.

True or not true?

[LivinLOS]

Anything that is a 'dont need a book' is not going to be a long term solution.. Sure it may grease the wheel for this month.. or the next few months, or whatever..

But a book is needed.. Not having one is crazy, or at least you know the risk of not having one.