Disciplining Your Children In Thailand

[Groongthep]

Forget corporal punishment. I've encountered a few little monsters that dam_n near drove me to give them capital punishment.

[Maigo6]

When I was a kid I used to get bad beatings from my Father, I'm not talking about a slap, I'm talking a fawking good hiding, these days he would be arrested and jailed for doing the same things.

I was in childrens homes from the age of 10, and I was so happy to get away, only to enter into another world of physical abuse by older boys in the system and even some staff members of childrens homes.

Now, many years later, I still never speak to my Father and don't even know or care if he's still alive. It was always a fantasy of mine that when I got older and stronger I would pay him a visit and sort him out, but when that time came, I never bothered, it would be pointless.

I was tough, and I was fast, I'd have shown him up, but he was still my Father, so I never bothered.

I guess people have different experiences and people that have bad experiences will always think they'll never do that to their own children, yet many find that they do as an automatic reaction, it's all they know, then immediately feel sorry, luckily Kids are forgiving and get over it.

Only thing I can say is this, take care of your kids, try your best, its all you can do.

Edited March 2, 2009 by Maigo6

[Chaimai]

When I was a kid I used to get bad beatings from my Father, I'm not talking about a slap, I'm talking a fawking good hiding, these days he would be arrested and jailed for doing the same things.

Only thing I can say is this, take care of your kids, try your best, its all you can do.

I have been involved in raising 4 children and have only raised my hand to one of them once. A did that partly out of anger and frustration and also to shock my daughter who was self-harming in a small way.

In my book there is no excuse for a 'bad beating' - it achieves nothing for father or child and only shows what an ignorant animal the father is. On many occasions drink is also involved. (sorry if that does not describe your situation Maigo).

I agree that number one is to protect and care for the children. Discipline is a factor and whilst I don't think a 'slap' is out of place anything more is unnecessary.

[dave_boo]

Just to put my 2 bits in;

I was on the receiving end of corporal punishment growing up. Did I deserve everything I got? hel_l yeah. Did I get everything I deserved? hel_l no. However, as many who've had run-ins with me know I'm a bit hard headed. Do I hate my grandparents for what they did? No. I ended up hating myself for making those stupid decisions that landed me the ass-whupping (in grandpa's case) or head slapping (curteousy of grandma).

I still remember grandma saying (in an attempt to sort me out), if you want to play with the main's outlet, here's a penny. Was that child abuse? And for the record, I kept the penny and used my tie pin instead!

Now, my first child (that I know about!), is one and I'm considering this same issue. At this point in life, I honestly don't believe there's any reason for corporal punishment. However, as she matures and starts becoming intelligent enough to form assosications, i.e. if she does something bad, something bad will happen to her, I think that I won't rule out that measure.

I know the in-laws aren't afraid of spanking; the youngest brother gets it if he refuses to go to school. One morning I was woken up with the M.I.L. chasing him around and the wife ending up tackling him for the M.I.L. to administer the punishment, which was a bit funny and sad at the same time. Sad to the fact that I'm paying for him to attend a good school, and yet it seems that he has no interest in going. Also sad that, at an age that I was into mechanics he has no appparent interest. Therefore I'm unsure of what he's going to do in life. So I don't know if corporal punishment is going to 'straighten' him out--just seems like he'll be happy to be an ignorant farmer the rest of his life (not all farmers are ignorant(!), but it seems like up where I stay that's the profession that people that can't hack it in anything else fall back on).

But back to my decision, as stated earlier, the baby is too young now to consider it. I believe that children, except for those who are mentally handicapped, associate the pain of punishment with the bad choice they made. But until they can draw that line, it's wrong to administer that punishment. Hoping my daughter has more common sense that I did doesn't rule out the fact that perhaps she'll need to be reminded there are consequences in this world, otherwise she could end up like that Aussie (?) chick who thinks that smuggling Heroin shouldn't involve the penalties toward her that apply to everyone else.

[neverdie]

Which Aussie chick dave, the one in Bali on Cannabis charges, Chapelle Corby or that twit that use to post in thai visa under the nic ourmaninbangers....who has actually come back as valentinob29? (who is dutch).

OR

Is there some other special weirdo, I'm unaware of.

DRUGGIES AND SMACKIES

Ohh & good on you for your parenting skills, its great to see a father who is so actively involved in the raising of the children.....especially the crash tackle bit

[venturalaw]

When I was a kid I used to get bad beatings from my Father, I'm not talking about a slap, I'm talking a fawking good hiding, these days he would be arrested and jailed for doing the same things.

I guess people have different experiences and people that have bad experiences will always think they'll never do that to their own children, yet many find that they do as an automatic reaction, it's all they know, then immediately feel sorry, luckily Kids are forgiving and get over it.

Only thing I can say is this, take care of your kids, try your best, its all you can do.

Kids get over it? Did you ever get over it? Thanks for sharing. So sorry you went through all of that. You're right - it was criminal behavior that you experienced. We all do need to do our best for our kids.

[Beacher]

It's my understanding that when one hits a child to discipline him or her for bad behaviour, it is not the physical pain that causes the child to cry, but rather the humiliation and shame that action brings. in other words, corporal punishment, assuming it is not overly severe, is actually more like psychological punishment than physical punishment. For this reason, I don't like it. Having said that, people are all different and what is terrible punishment for one person may be small potatoes for another, so finding what punishment will effectively teach a child better behaviour is something that one may have to work on.

[Thai at Heart]

A good tap on the bum or the back of the wrist worked for me, and has worked for my kids. Of course this shouldn't happen out of anger or personal frustration but should be used if the kids do wrong.

I saw a Thai friend of my wife, and the kid was throwing an enormous tantrum at our house because the kid wanted more soft drinks and mum decided it was enough. It came to the point where the kid (about 6 years old) actually hit the mother several times, and all mum came back with was "Don't do that". Mum is terrified to smack her child for fear that the father will freak out. At which point I had had enough. I told the kid straight out in Thai, "don't you ever hit your mum, ever, and that if she didn't stop her dad would whack her on the bum." I was very worried I had over stepped the mark, but watching a kid strike her parent was too much.

The kid was so absolutely shocked the tantrum stopped in a second. And then told me in Thai, "my dad doesn't let my mum do that". To which I answered in Thai to the effect of "there is a first time for everything".

When kids believe there are no rules and consequences all hel_l can break loose.

Edited March 3, 2009 by Thai at Heart

[Arkady]

An Egyptian teacher at a primary school in Alexandria is alleged to have beaten an 11-year-old pupil to death.

The maths teacher, Haitham Nabeel Abdelhamid, who worked at Saad Othman school, was furious because Islam Amr Badr had not finished his homework.

After using a ruler to punish him, the teacher is alleged to have taken the young boy outside the classroom and hit him violently in his stomach.

The young pupil fainted and later died in hospital of heart failure.

He was taken from the school to hospital but suffered a sharp drop in blood pressure and heart failure.

The teacher is reported by Egyptian newspaper Al Masry Alyoum to have told the prosecutor that he was only trying to "discipline the boy, not to kill him".

Mr Abdelhamid was remanded in custody on manslaughter charges.

BBC, 28 October 2008

[whatawonderfulday]

Since smacking children and corporal punishment has been made illegal in the West, parents and teachers are afraid of the children. Class discipline is shot to hel_l and the good children that do want to learn, can't because of the behaviour of the few that disrupt the class.

I sit firmly in the "I was smacked as a child and it didn't do me any harm" school.

The advent of children becoming less civilized is not caused by a lack of physical discipline. It's caused by an ever increasing lack of attention, and/or caring support, by the children's parents while much of civilization is, to borrow a phrase, slouching toward Gomorrah. Additionally there are less intact families to provide adequate role models. Spare the rod - spoil the child is a myth that has provided a fertile environment for generations of child abuse.

Living on planet Zog with Zogonian attitudes must be your Nirvana. I suppose you also think there is no harm in giving them firearms to play with also ?

[polecat]

I never smack my kids. I beat the shit out of my niece and nephew, but never my little polekitties.

[F1fanatic]

Since smacking children and corporal punishment has been made illegal in the West, parents and teachers are afraid of the children. Class discipline is shot to hel_l and the good children that do want to learn, can't because of the behaviour of the few that disrupt the class.

I sit firmly in the "I was smacked as a child and it didn't do me any harm" school.

My Thai wife believes in smacking (note not beating) my son gets his hands smacked daily I dont want him to burn his fingers on the oven I also dont want him snapping the house plants the same way he did the other two.

I'm with you Sir Burr.

Whilst I agree that there are times a slap is necessary, I've no doubt that in a proper loving family that communicates well with each other, it is needed v rarely. Therefore I find your comment "my son gets his hands smacked daily" v worrying. Either your wife is far too ready to resort to physical punishment, or you have a serious problem!

Edited March 3, 2009 by F1fanatic

[venturalaw]

Since smacking children and corporal punishment has been made illegal in the West, parents and teachers are afraid of the children. Class discipline is shot to hel_l and the good children that do want to learn, can't because of the behaviour of the few that disrupt the class.

I sit firmly in the "I was smacked as a child and it didn't do me any harm" school.

The advent of children becoming less civilized is not caused by a lack of physical discipline. It's caused by an ever increasing lack of attention, and/or caring support, by the children's parents while much of civilization is, to borrow a phrase, slouching toward Gomorrah. Additionally there are less intact families to provide adequate role models. Spare the rod - spoil the child is a myth that has provided a fertile environment for generations of child abuse.

Living on planet Zog with Zogonian attitudes must be your Nirvana. I suppose you also think there is no harm in giving them firearms to play with also ?

You believe that providing children with firearms is consistent with a desire to see parental support and caring in a family? Interesting. What planet are you from?

[Ijustwannateach]

Getting back to the OP for a moment, I don't think it's all that material which way he goes- I can see arguments on both sides- but the fact that he has such a serious difference of opinion with the woman he's supposed to marry should be a warning sign for him. Are there any other very serious points where they disagree? If so, and if they can't resolve them somehow- soon- he should perhaps consider putting the wedding off- maybe WAAAAY off.

[scottyd]

Putting a wedding off because of a disagreement like that? Hahahahahahaha, do your relationships last long mate?

[Ijustwannateach]

Long enough to know how we might raise our children- better to find out before instead of after.... you may laugh now, but you wouldn't be laughing later if your wife started hitting your kids and you didn't agree with that.

[najman]

I've noticed it depends on the parents just like it does in the west. Some parents use communication to get children to understand. Others use hitting as a general rule. I've seen this in Thailand and the west. So it comes back to the individual parents.

Some kids are harder to handle than others but i see that often comes from the way parents treat their kids too.

I was smacked on the arse only once when I used the worst words i could come up with at the top of my lungs when my dad sent me to bed ontime. It didnt hurt but i got the message... as calm as my dad is I could tip him over the edge.

It's the parents that use hitting as the general rule that p me off. It should be used in the rarest of times without harm. When the west makes it illegal they are try to save everyone from the few that use it distructively. Like all western laws. One person gets hurt so they ban that action. Typical western society. If enough idiots complain about something then they will make a law about it. Weather or not it is the right thing to do.

Neither rule is correct as a general rule. You have to be smart in the use of it. Sometimes there is no danger in not wearing a bicycle helmet when riding down the road to your friends house. Other times someone gets hit by a train. So helmets must be worn at all times or else. Same goes with smacking kids. Sometimes it's destructive, sometimes it's not. If a kid gets love 99.9% of the time and hit 0.01% of the time the kid will hardly grow up damaged.

[somchai69]

In extreme cases my boys have had a slap round the legs from me.....

and the wife.

She is more inclined to hit than I am, I prefer talking, with a salutary slap as a last resort.

[ThaiSquire]

My fiancee and I had a brief discussion on how we will discipline our children when we have them, and she believes that its ok to use corporal punishment a little to correct their behavior. I disagree and neither I nor my ex farang wife have never laid a hand on my 15 year old daughter and I think she turned out ok. I resort to other methods when she is not behaving properly such as solitary confinement from her friends or restricting her activities, but would never strike my child.

Is it part of Thai culture to use corporal punishment on your own children? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE I am not really interested in knowing personal opinions on whether corporal punishment is effective on an individual basis, I am simply trying to find out that since my fiancee believes in it, do most Thais believe in it as well, and is it part of Buddhism? And if I refuse to let her use it on my children will it cause me to lose face with her and her family? If I ever saw her of her family hit my kid, I would be very angry.

I have stayed in Thailand more than a year and I dont know if I have ever seen a parent hitting a child.

In my experience (20 yrs married to a Thai, 2 children) I've not witnessed much corporal punishment. (Only in the schools.) Then again, in my humble opinion, I haven't seen too much parenting going on with Thai kids! Talk about a bunch of spoiled little brats running around.

Thai Squire

[paulrobertlane]

Firstly a few FACTS

Corporal punishment in schools was banned by law in Thailand in 2005. This applies to all schools both public and private. Somewhat ironically it remains legal in nursery schools with limits on the use of force.

There is NO "opt out" for parents or for schools to make "arrangements" - that is a myth, No individual or group can "opt out" of the law.

Corporal punishment in the home remains legal.

sources

http://www.endcorporalpunishment.org/pages/progress/reports/thailand.html

http://www.corporalpunishmentthailand.com/the-law.html

Now some REALITY

Yes, it still happens, and is not uncommon but it is a lot less prevalent than it was 5 or even 2 years go. There are several reasons for this.

1. teachers are now more aware of the law - and that they can be fined or lose their teaching license if they get a criminal record.

2. Schools dont want to pay financial compensation. Nothing like the sniff of baht to make parents complain.

3. The education ministry are FAR more active in pursuing cases. This has become even more prevalent due to the Kings niece getting involved with the "stop violence against women and children campaign".

4. Students are now more aware of the law also.

Just to dispel a couple of things mentioned in the thread.

1. To the poster who claims it happens in Universities. I have read some tosh about Thailand in my time but this takes the biscuit. Student bodies are as radical in Thailand as the rest of the world and it this were happening it would certainly be in the public domain. Thai universities cover people from age 18 to 30+ and the hitting of "adults" would never be tolerated. Your brother is living in some kind of fantasy world. Name the Uni, It will be easy to check.

2. The case of the young girl beaten 18 times in Bangkok. Yes this happened at Yothinburana School in Bangkok. The teacher who applied the beating was a female head of year teacher (M2). She resigned from that post and was later "moved on" from the school also. She was carrying out the instructions of the schools directors (they admitted this) and made it clear that she did not want to do it. THAT is why the school "backed" her + the fact that they were trying to make a private financial arrangement with the parents. The school WERE investigated by the education ministry under he instructions of Khunying Kasama Voravarn na Ayutthaya, secretary-general of the Office of the Basic Education Commission. The schools defense was that the policy was "one hit per lesson missed" and that this policy was an agreemenbt between the school the students and the parents. Khunying Kasama Voravarn na Ayutthaya made it VERY clear, in a public statement, that private arrangements were NOT allowed under the law. Contrary to what has been written in this thread the school were heavily fined and also paid a large sum to the parents of the (8) students concerned.

[harrry]

Most thais I know resort to a fairly painfi\ul squeeze of the arm on a couple of pressure points for most discipline. It varies for slight if the child wants something at the market they cant have to very very painfil for more serious things.

[Kwasaki]

I think it's a matter of personality and it is obvious from reading through the posts it doesn't matter whether your Thai or anything else, my Thai wife said she has never had to hit her son but knows of people hitting their children on occasion.

Personally I have smacked one of my five children once on the legs and I've regretted it ever since.

I talked many years later about it with my eldest daughter who it was and she said never mind dad and gave me a hug saying that she didn't remember anyway.

I see it as I ended up being the punished one.

I have never hit any of my other children and I say now to anyone if you do, you have failed.

Edited August 23, 2010 by Kwasaki

[WarpSpeed]

Since smacking children and corporal punishment has been made illegal in the West, parents and teachers are afraid of the children. Class discipline is shot to hel_l and the good children that do want to learn, can't because of the behaviour of the few that disrupt the class.

I sit firmly in the "I was smacked as a child and it didn't do me any harm" school.

Mostly true but I'm assuming that you mean illegal in schools or with authorities, I don't know of anywhere in the States where it is illegal to spank your child within reason as corrective punishment..

[bermondburi]

Anyone who hits their kid's are cowards

Your kids will always be your kids and will not always do as you want, but when the kids get to 16 years old and 6 feet tall the middle age parents then stop hitting them....cowards!

Those same parents don't start hitting other adults with whom they might have a disagreement because it will hurt if another adult whacks them back.

Those parents who hit their kids do it for the simple reason that kids are small and won't hit back....f**king cowards!

Yes. I am a coward. For trying to stop one of my kids beating the crap out of another one and making him understand in his four year old brain, that what he is doing to someone else actually hurts when it is done to him. Naughty step. Don't make me laugh.

[bermondburi]

Yes corporal punishment is accepted in Thai culture.

Corporal punishment is used in schools, but I think it may be illegal.

Parents have complained that their children have suffered serious injuries, and as a result some teachers have been prosecuted.

The custom here is that the head of the family can treat his family as he pleases, it's a private matter, and as long as it is reasonable will rarely if ever result in any social or legal action

My daughter and her friend were playing with one of them pretending to be a teacher saying,

"hold out your hand so I can slap you and if you tell your mother I will slap you twice as hard"

So I guess it is still going on.

I dont think it is illegal in the schools.

My brother works in one of the Universities, and tell me almost daily about how his Thai colleagues use the bamboo stick.

The teachers sometimes lay the kids over the desk in the middle of the class and hit them over the back or buttocks infront of everybody.

The rest of the class, as the kids they are, they love this show, not thinking that they might be next if they get caught being naughty.

The teachers also slap the kids in the back of their heads.

Yes, you are right, some teachers have really gone overboard and been prosecuted for being too brutal.

After a meeting with the University management, my brother was surprised to learn that it is the schools job to not only to educate the kids, but to raise them as decent people as well.

The latter is normally what the parents do back home.

My Thai wife said that bamboo sticks use to be used, but no longer. I hope that my wife is correct because if anyone hits my child, the offender will be wishing for death by the time I am finished with him/her.

Your wife is wrong. I worked at a school only recently where every Thai teacher walked round with a cane. Do you know what ? In those lessons the kids were actually well behaved because they knew if they weren't they were going to get a wack. Compare that to the foreign teacher lessons where all hel_l broke loose because the kids knew they weren't going to get a wack. All these people saying they will hit anyone who hits their kids obviously don't have much experience of Thai schools.

[IMA_FARANG]

My Thai girlfriend had 3 children by her first marriage. He left, and she had to raise 3 children herself. I've never seen her hit them, but she is definately in charge, tells them what to do and when to do it, and enforces her rules. They are now grown (the youngest is 26 years old now) and they still listen to mom. If necessary she enforces her rules bt yelling at them, but I haven't seen her hit them...or at least rarely a soank when they were young. They all have jobs, help mom with the house expenses as much as they can, and clean up after themslves (and have their function in the house that they must follow still as adults). I think she's done quite well raising them.

I know you say you don't want opinions on corporol punishment, but I will tell you of the one time MY mother showed me who was boss. I was playing baseball with my friends, I was about 14 years old then. I had chores I was required to do, and it was my night to wash up after dinner. I begged my mom to give me about an hour to play some baseball with my friends. She agreed, but said after an hour or so I had to come and do the dishes. After that hour she came outside and told me it was time for me to stop playing baseball and get washing the dishes. I said no. She said I had to come, and if I didn't she would "drag me in by my ear" and make me. I was feeling cocky, so I told her she couldn't. I was too big and too old, she couldn't really "drag me in by my ear". Well, I was wrong. She litterly grabbed my ear, turned it about 90 degrees, and pulled me in to the house by the ear in front of all my friends. Did you ever have anyone litterly pull you by your ear? It HURTS. That was the one time my mother ever applied physical restraint to make me do what she wanted. I'm now 64 years old, and I STILL remember being dragged into the house by my ear. The reason I mention this is that I believe when a child is deliberately disrepectful to his/her parents (as I was that one time) there is a point at which the parent has to challlenge that disrespect with physical force. I learned my lesson that night...and I still remeber being marched into my house, to do the chore it was my responsibility to do by my mother. I learned that even at 14, I WASN'T too old for her to make me obey.

So, from that experience, I say there may be a point where wilful disobedience from the child toward the parent is attempted, there may be a point where corporal punishment may have to be used to re-establish the parent's authority. But, in general, I don't believe in corporal punishment and haven't seen my Thai partner use it on her children. It's mostly verbal.

Edited August 24, 2010 by IMA_FARANG

[Caliguy]

Lots of child abusers in Thailand it seems. There are many other ways to discipline kids.

[bermondburi]

Lots of child abusers in Thailand it seems. There are many other ways to discipline kids.

Get off your high horse. There are many other ways to discipline children. No one said that all they did was beat their children . A smack on the bum for hitting little brother or for doing something dangerous does not in my opinion make it child abuse. Perhaps you've spent too long in the PC west. At the end of the day parenting is an individual thing up to the parents and so long as the kids are fine then it has got absolutely nothing to do with anyone else.

[StreetCowboy]

Yes corporal punishment is accepted in Thai culture.

Corporal punishment is used in schools, but I think it may be illegal.

Parents have complained that their children have suffered serious injuries, and as a result some teachers have been prosecuted.

The custom here is that the head of the family can treat his family as he pleases, it's a private matter, and as long as it is reasonable will rarely if ever result in any social or legal action

My daughter and her friend were playing with one of them pretending to be a teacher saying,

"hold out your hand so I can slap you and if you tell your mother I will slap you twice as hard"

So I guess it is still going on.

I dont think it is illegal in the schools.

My brother works in one of the Universities, and tell me almost daily about how his Thai colleagues use the bamboo stick.

The teachers sometimes lay the kids over the desk in the middle of the class and hit them over the back or buttocks infront of everybody.

The rest of the class, as the kids they are, they love this show, not thinking that they might be next if they get caught being naughty.

The teachers also slap the kids in the back of their heads.

Yes, you are right, some teachers have really gone overboard and been prosecuted for being too brutal.

After a meeting with the University management, my brother was surprised to learn that it is the schools job to not only to educate the kids, but to raise them as decent people as well.

The latter is normally what the parents do back home.

My Thai wife said that bamboo sticks use to be used, but no longer. I hope that my wife is correct because if anyone hits my child, the offender will be wishing for death by the time I am finished with him/her.

Your wife is wrong. I worked at a school only recently where every Thai teacher walked round with a cane. Do you know what ? In those lessons the kids were actually well behaved because they knew if they weren't they were going to get a wack. Compare that to the foreign teacher lessons where all hel_l broke loose because the kids knew they weren't going to get a wack. All these people saying they will hit anyone who hits their kids obviously don't have much experience of Thai schools.

I suppose that just highlights the damage and lack of real discipline that corporal punishment generates.

Disipline based on fear of punishment inevitably results in ill-discipline, hidden under a veneer of rational risk assessment. Alter the risk - either in terms of likelihood of punishment, or severity of punishment, and the discipline disappears.

Other than that, I'm on the side of the corporal punishers, but I accept that it is ineffective, counter-productive, damaging to the children and should be a last resort for good parents - and for inadequate parents it should be a last resort as well, though they may more often resort to that backstop.

In the school environment, such punishment, if used, should be used in a strictly controlled and disciplined manner, with a high degree of restraint and the emphasis on the symbolism of the punishment - because at the end of the day, I don't really think that fear of pain is a particularly good threat agianst the bloody-minded and obstreperous.

SC

[Thakkar]

<snip>

So, from that experience, I say there may be a point where wilful disobedience from the child toward the parent is attempted, there may be a point where corporal punishment may have to be used to re-establish the parent's authority. But, in general, I don't believe in corporal punishment and haven't seen my Thai partner use it on her children. It's mostly verbal.

Agreed. It should be an absolute last resort, but if you take it off the table completely, your parental tool chest is the poorer.