Looking For Beads, Real Gemstones And Silver (thai Hilltribe)

[Soulwy]

For my hobby I am looking for:

Beads for making necklaces

real gemstones (pearls, stones) and silver (preferably Thai Hilltribe silver of course )

Is there a shop? A wholesale supplier?

I can make a trip to...where-ever needed (within an hour drive though)

[toybits]

Of course there are shops that sell these items but before you hit those shops, please think of the consequences of your action. Yes! If you don't buy it, some other dude will take it away and put it in his/her private collection or sell them for 100 times what it cost to buy them.

These works of art are being lost and people that should belong them loose them because their parents do not have the foresight to keep them or are so poor they sell their precious jewelry for a small fraction of their real worth to people like you and me.

These items should be put in local museums. Unfortunately, local people do not appreciate things like these and couldn't care less. I have put my collection in a museum that is open to the public because they are meant to be shared.

If we do not share them with the people from which the items were purchased from, we would be no better than grave robbers or looters of antiquities.

[sceadugenga]

A good point toybits but I think that Soulwy is looking for a source of raw materials so he can make his own masterpieces.

There's plenty of shops and stalls up on the Mae Sai border crossing that sell this kind of thing.

[Soulwy]

No worries Toybits, I am definetely not looking for antiques or beads with a special cultural value. Just plain beads of gems and silver. Just for fun you know. I just enjoy making necklaces.

I just don't want to buy fake gemstones for the price of real ones.

Sgenga, Mae Sai is a good one (e.g. when I go there for a visa run) Thanks.

[toybits]

There is a hilltribe accessories shop near Chiang Rai Witthaya school. They sell glass beads of different colors.

No worries Toybits, I am definetely not looking for antiques or beads with a special cultural value. Just plain beads of gems and silver. Just for fun you know. I just enjoy making necklaces.

I just don't want to buy fake gemstones for the price of real ones.

Sgenga, Mae Sai is a good one (e.g. when I go there for a visa run) Thanks.

[klikster]

@soulwy - Maesai is a good source for lots of precious and non-precious material. I don't think you need to resort to glass. All you need to know - what is and what does / does not have gem value. But be careful, the farther you go up the supply chain the more likely to find synthetics.

You might also try Doi Mae Salong. If it's not too far, Mae Sot has an interesting market.

Are you looking for items that are already drilled? That can be a deal breaker on some stuff.

Another potential source would be some of the shops behind the temple in Yaowaraj (Chinatown), Bangkok. Good flame fusion ruby used to be Bt 20 per carat there. (many moons ago). Not drilled.

Another place in BKK, stop by "The Wall", a pub off Mahaesak. Lots of western and Asian gem and jewelry folks hang out there. They can point you in the right direction. Food isn't bad there either.

Of course there are shops that sell these items but before you hit those shops, please think of the consequences of your action. Yes! If you don't buy it, some other dude will take it away and put it in his/her private collection or sell them for 100 times what it cost to buy them.

These works of art are being lost and people that should belong them loose them because their parents do not have the foresight to keep them or are so poor they sell their precious jewelry for a small fraction of their real worth to people like you and me.

These items should be put in local museums. Unfortunately, local people do not appreciate things like these and couldn't care less. I have put my collection in a museum that is open to the public because they are meant to be shared.

If we do not share them with the people from which the items were purchased from, we would be no better than grave robbers or looters of antiquities.

@toybits - Kind of a curious response .. and a little confusing. If something truly is an artifact, and it is already being offered in a shop, the only way for it to be "rescued" is for some well-meaning person to buy it and donate it to the proper museum. You seem to be urging the OP (and others) not to buy artifacts, yet you know that someone will.

Is that what you are advocating? If so, how does that help the artifacts find a way to a public museum?

BTW, how many hilltribe people do you think visit the museum where you donated your collection?

[Soulwy]

@soulwy - Maesai is a good source for lots of precious and non-precious material. I don't think you need to resort to glass. All you need to know - what is and what does / does not have gem value.

But be careful, the farther you go up the supply chain the more likely to find synthetics.

You might also try Doi Mae Salong. If it's not too far, Mae Sot has an interesting market.

Are you looking for items that are already drilled? That can be a deal breaker on some stuff.

Another potential source would be some of the shops behind the temple in Yaowaraj (Chinatown), Bangkok. Good flame fusion ruby used to be Bt 20 per carat there. (many moons ago). Not drilled.

Another place in BKK, stop by "The Wall", a pub off Mahaesak. Lots of western and Asian gem and jewelry folks hang out there. They can point you in the right direction. Food isn't bad there either.

1)You mean: the more in quantity they offer (in bulk) the more likely they are not precious gems?

2)Doi Mae Salong, Mae Sot, it's already written down

3)Yep, drilled ones

4)BKK seems to be the place to be, unfortunately big cities are killing me...

5) About artifacts & -crafts: I have always had this strange feeling about exporting temple accessories from the original country/ culture for loads of money. However rationally I think it is ok as long it is legal.

Still, art colllectors who collect art as an investment (not because they like art so much) always confuse me.

[klikster]

1)You mean: the more in quantity they offer (in bulk) the more likely they are not precious gems?

No, there is a general assumption that going direct to the mine, or to first tier dealers, that you will always natural material. But the old hands say, "The closer to the mine, the more likely to get synthetic."

Just because it's gem rough, doesn't mean it isn't synthetic. But actually, most synthetic / lab material looks better than most natural. Great hue, saturation and tone; no cracks, etc., etc.

If you don't know gems, don't try to buy good stuff in Maesai, Mae Sot, Bangkok .. or anywhere else, for that matter. Gems are one of the trickiest markets in the world. Maybe second to derivatives.

[sceadugenga]

I was interested in this field myself a few years back and bought several books on the subject. Coloured gem stones are one of the trickiest to authenticate and even experts are occasionally fooled.

The Gemological Institute of America (GIA) used to run courses in Bangkok and I attended several gemstone exhibitions in that city that were very informative.

Here's the GIA site.

[klikster]

I was interested in this field myself a few years back and bought several books on the subject. Coloured gem stones are one of the trickiest to authenticate and even experts are occasionally fooled.

The Gemological Institute of America (GIA) used to run courses in Bangkok and I attended several gemstone exhibitions in that city that were very informative.

Here's the GIA site.

GIA is "the" institute for diamond industry peddlers in the US. Their branch in BKK is rumored to be inferior to the Asian Institute of Gemological Sciences (AIGS). Most of my 'training was self study .. had all the important instruments. I also did 2 stetches in 2 different programs. One was at a community college adult education program, then one colored stone class at AIGS .. 4 months as I recall.

What you really have to watch out for are seed-grown hydrothermal and flux-fusion (lab created) which when they were first introduced fooled the GIA lab in California. Then there is "fusion" coating, where cheap clear corundum is heat treated in crucibles nested within powders of titanium, berilium, etc.

The best gem show in the world is Tuscon, AZ .. twice a year, the big one is October, I believe. It's huge, spread out all over the city .. goes for weeks and finding a room is ..

This is a great read. I had the pleasure of several email conversations with Dr. Hanneman http://www.nordskip.com/hh.html

Edited March 3, 2009 by klikster

[Soulwy]

I am very impressed by your posts about gems, I didn't expect to receive these kind of answers on Thaivisa.

A year ago I got interested in pearls and other gemstones and bought books to gain knowledge. And the more I read the more I found out how difficult it is to value gems, yes indeed Klikster and Sgenga, even pros get fooled!

My dream was to buy real gems after having touched and seen them in real (instead of buying online), but maybe I shouldn't aim for the really good ones. Just for the low and mid quality. And which look nice.

Today I heard that finding gem & silver beads in Chiang Rai is not easy. So one of these days I plan a visit to Banruamit/ Hilltribe to check the price for silver beads.

And if I don't find a suitable house in or near CRai, I am going to Mai Sae. Maybe followed by a visit to Chiang Khon- Luanprabang, Mae Sot.

I follow the "Bead trail"

It wasn't my plan to travel, just to have a simple Thai life in CRai, but there I go...

Klikster, I would love to follow a course to deepen my interest. It is a call for the future.

I really enjoyed your posts guys/girls/people! Feel free to post more!

[sceadugenga]

I think you sum it up when you say that what looks nice is most important to you.

If you're only making jewelry for your own enjoyment why worry about buying expensive stones?

I'm glad to have been of help and Klikster is always informative even if he is a grumpy old #*#* sometimes.

[klikster]

.. Klikster is always informative even if he is a grumpy old #*#* sometimes.

Moi?

[klikster]

Soulwy - I know you don't like the thought of BKK, but silver along New Road, where much jewelry mfg is done, is very affordable if you find the right distributor. One mfg I talked to one night at The Wall, told me prices (for large quantities) that sounded amazingly low.

As far as gems, one of my favorite red gems is spinel. Terrible name, beautiful stone. Not quite as "rich" as ruby, but only a small fraction of the price. Small stones tend to be pretty much free of inclusions. And because of the price and shape of the natural crystal, it will usually be cut nearer to "ideal" that ruby or sapphire. That means it will have better brilliance, less windowing and extinction. Also because of the price, synthetic is less common, although synthetic spinel is produced. Thais often pronounce it as "speenel". Lots of it in the Mae Sot market.

A bit of trivia, the "Black Prince's Ruby" is actually red spinel.

[Soulwy]

Hey "Grumpy Old" Klikster , I learned a new gem: spinel, will keep my eyes open in Mai Sot.

BKK is the place to be for beads, gems & silver...Maybe next time I am here, need a mental preparation first. Facing your deepest fear is never easy

Sgenga, I am sure you know how it feels when you have something real and when you have something fake. It gives an extra dimension you get besides the nice look of it. As a novice I am not going to aim for the best, but for middle class or less.

A gemstone question:

I read that most of the pearls are dyed or treated in any other way. Such as other gemstones e.g. Turquoise (only 85-90% of the Turquoise is hard enough to use it without treatment)

Suppose gemstone really have these special healing powers, that means that gems lose these powers after being treated, right?

[klikster]

Hey "Grumpy Old" Klikster , I learned a new gem: spinel, will keep my eyes open in Mai Sot.

BKK is the place to be for beads, gems & silver...Maybe next time I am here, need a mental preparation first. Facing your deepest fear is never easy

Sgenga, I am sure you know how it feels when you have something real and when you have something fake. It gives an extra dimension you get besides the nice look of it. As a novice I am not going to aim for the best, but for middle class or less.

A gemstone question:

I read that most of the pearls are dyed or treated in any other way. Such as other gemstones e.g. Turquoise (only 85-90% of the Turquoise is hard enough to use it without treatment)

Suppose gemstone really have these special healing powers, that means that gems lose these powers after being treated, right?

A few things to think about.

Spinel - one reason I like it is because heat treating is not an issue. Virtually 100% of ruby is heat treated. It's accepted in the industry. But what often goes hand-in-glove with heat treating is filling of surface cracks, pits, etc. In oblique light, a good eye can pick those up.

BKK - The Wall also has rooms upstairs, a little ratty but about as convenient to the gem/jewelry center of BKK as you can get.

Pearls - I'm not too up on pearl treatments. One idea I toyed with. I have heard that in Burma, it's 'relatively' easy to get baroque (irregular shape) natural pearls. The fisherman find them. Pearls are soft and pretty easy to shape. If you get lucky and the layers of nacre are similar enough in color, and not discolored, a good cutter could reshape to them round. Not sure what it would look like.

Cutting - BKK and Chantaburi are the real cutting centers, but there is a small community of cutters in Sankampaeng (C'mai).

Looking at cut colored gems - Practice looking at the 'brilliance'/'internal luster'. It tells you a great deal. Hold the gem about 45 degrees. Rock it back an forth a little (yep, good tweezers make it a lot easier). Don't look at the surface luster / 'shininess'. The true hue, saturation and tone can be seen in those little flashes of brilliance. The % of a gem that is brilliant is related to the clarity of the crystal. All other factors being equal, the better proportioned a gem is cut, the more brilliance. Too may facets (jungle cut) makes the gem look 'fuzzy'. Round stones are easier, ovals only 'light up' half the gem at a time

Healing powers - not my field, but 'experts' say that fewer inclusions = more healing power.

Mae Sot - One of the gem markets is in front of an older hotel there .. very convenient. Going to the market by the bridge is a waste of time. Counter with not more than 10% of the first asking price to the peddlers walking around and showing their material. Lots of star corrundum over there.

About real vs. fake - Start thinking natural vs. created. Synthetic ruby is essentially identical to natural >> crystal structure, chemical makeup, hardness, etc. It was just made in a lab rather than grown naturally in the earth.

[Soulwy]

Klikster, your post make my heart beat faster. All these inside info. I can't wait to do the walk. Ever thought about organizing a tour for gemstone lovers? I am active on different beading forums and I can tell you that there would be an interest for this.

Real vs. fake, treated vs. untreated, created/ cultured vs. natural:

By fake I mean treating a natural stone into a gemstone look-a-like. "Created" & "cultured" is for me not fake.

First a hunt for a jewelers loupe and a tweezer

[klikster]

Klikster, your post make my heart beat faster.

About 40 years ago I was sometimes able to create that effect with a look and a smile .. now the only way it happens is with a gemology post. *sigh*

Anyhow, I ran across this website today. Looks like a really good Wiki style resource for gemology.

http://gemologyproject.com/wiki/index.php?title=Home

[Soulwy]

Klikster, your post make my heart beat faster.

About 40 years ago I was sometimes able to create that effect with a look and a smile .. now the only way it happens is with a gemology post. *sigh*

Anyhow, I ran across this website today. Looks like a really good Wiki style resource for gemology.

http://gemologyproject.com/wiki/index.php?title=Home

Haha...well, you are a true artist to create this only by typing some words

[Soulwy]

Interesting article:

http://www.ruby-sapphire.com/bordertowns.htm

[klikster]

Interesting article:

http://www.ruby-sapphire.com/bordertowns.htm

I have never had the pleasure of meeting Richard Hughes. He had left AIGS before I took my course there. I did exchange a couple of emails with him and respect his work.

I also have his book "Ruby and Sapphire". It may be the best work ever produced on corundum. Incredible photos, lots and lots of technical information .. and quite expensive. That text is on 'extended' loan from a gem dealer in Maesai who decided to give one of his customers the copy of my Webster's, "Gems", 7th edition that I had loaned him.

[IraqRon]

There are a couple of shops with gems and old style jewelry, silver plates, etc. on the street that the new clock tower is on. Very interesting items in these shops, that you might find you like. The old jewelry in one is fascinating to me, very ornate some of it, silver with various gems, stones. Lots of beads, already strung.

The shops are very close together, maybe next to each other even and just west of the clocktower on the opposite side of that street from Jed Yod Rd.

[sceadugenga]

Interesting article:

http://www.ruby-sapphire.com/bordertowns.htm

I have never had the pleasure of meeting Richard Hughes. He had left AIGS before I took my course there. I did exchange a couple of emails with him and respect his work.

I also have his book "Ruby and Sapphire". It may be the best work ever produced on corundum. Incredible photos, lots and lots of technical information .. and quite expensive. That text is on 'extended' loan from a gem dealer in Maesai who decided to give one of his customers the copy of my Webster's, "Gems", 7th edition that I had loaned him.

Neither a borrower, nor a lender be;

For loan oft loses both itself and friend,

I can't talk, I've got ex-books scattered all over the world.

[Soulwy]

...

I can't talk, I've got ex-books scattered all over the world.

Ex-books...

The only gem books I brought with me are about pearls (Matlins & Newman). My next visit will be better prepared.

I want to leave for Mae Sai within a week, any suggestion for a nice, clean accomodation? Good atmosphere, max. 500 baht. I am pretty (actually: awfully) slow, so I will be staying there longer than an average Mae Sai-visitor.