How's This For A Scam!

[Pakeha]

A lovely thai woman named Tui came around today at the invitation of my partner. She is a friend of a friend. She has been in New Zealand for one month and is ordinarily a teacher when in Thailand.

She paid a handsome amount of baht to an 'agency' in Thailand to get a study and work visa for New Zealand and employment upon arrival and spent pretty much all her savings plus borrowed money from her mum to get the visa and get here. Her english is average.

Anyway, upon arrival in New Zealand she discovers the visa is in fact not a work visa but a study visa and there is no job here for her. The only job she could get would be working at a thai restaurant illegally where they will pay her slave wages for long hours. Sadly she can't even find one of those jobs at the moment.

Poor girl is now living with some (seemingly kind hearted) gay guys who have taken her in with free board if she cooks and cleans. She can't afford to go out or do anything really. She studies, eats rice and that is it.

We had her over for the day today and cooked lunch and dinner for her and generally entertained her. Just trying to lift her spirits really.

What a scam. The buggers in Thailand at the 'agency' have ruined this poor womans life financially for many years to come - absolute scumbags! Shame on them.

I wonder if this is common?

[bruceboy]

Does she have the name of the agency?

[BigSnake]

Yes Thai Scamming Thai, sad but true, most of the young lady hoping to get ahead fall for these SCAMS hook line and SINKER. A friend of the wife sister almost fell for a similar scam lucky for her the village(headKnocker) aka, Headman is a wise old fellow and help her to see that she was dealing with some SCAMMERS. hear tell she gave his a little reward un be known to the Ms.

[Pakeha]

Does she have the name of the agency?

I'd assume so. Not much she can do about it though given she is broke and they seemingly would be quite well off

[CharlieB]

This is common in all countries where it is hard for people to get visas to go to more developed countries to work. I had a russian girlfriend several years ago and she had friends who paid large sums for working visas, travel to the UK and a job. The 'work' visas turned out to be short term student visas and the job turned out to be a 7 day a week illegal cleaning job in a Heathrow airport hotel, living in an overcrowded shared house.

Edited March 7, 2009 by CharlieB

[neverdie]

Yes, I have seen this type of thing before, story too long to go into, but it seems when it comes to the mighty dollar (or baht), there are no limit to some peoples boundaries.

I wonder if they sleep well at night?

[nzgregor]

Hi byoung2,

Check your messages, my wife is thai and we would be happy to help out if we can

Greg

[Pakeha]

Hi byoung2,

Check your messages, my wife is thai and we would be happy to help out if we can

Greg

Thanks Greg. I've PM'ed you.

Does anyone know if there is a specific authority in Thailand that will receive complaints of this type of scam?

[neverdie]

byoung,

The case I know of the people actually went to the authorities in the other country (immigration) & told them the full story & immigration there was very helpful.

Naturally these people that have done this will have to deal with the NZ Immigration or at least the NZ Embassy, so perhaps a red flag can be brought against their name to stop this type of thing happening in the future.

This is slightly different to the scam I new of & also involved another country, but generally the same thing. VERY POOR FORM!

[Pakeha]

byoung,

The case I know of the people actually went to the authorities in the other country (immigration) & told them the full story & immigration there was very helpful.

Naturally these people that have done this will have to deal with the NZ Immigration or at least the NZ Embassy, so perhaps a red flag can be brought against their name to stop this type of thing happening in the future.

This is slightly different to the scam I new of & also involved another country, but generally the same thing. VERY POOR FORM!

Good advice as always neverdie. I'll talk to Tui and see what she'd like to do. The thais in NZ generally don't like to make a fuss with immigration or the department of labour because they assume they have done something wrong. I'd like to get ten minutes with the scumbag 'agents' to 'explain' my point of view to them!

[Maizefarmer]

A lovely thai woman named Tui came around today at the invitation of my partner. She is a friend of a friend. She has been in New Zealand for one month and is ordinarily a teacher when in Thailand.

She paid a handsome amount of baht to an 'agency' in Thailand to get a study and work visa for New Zealand and employment upon arrival and spent pretty much all her savings plus borrowed money from her mum to get the visa and get here. Her english is average.

Anyway, upon arrival in New Zealand she discovers the visa is in fact not a work visa but a study visa and there is no job here for her. The only job she could get would be working at a thai restaurant illegally where they will pay her slave wages for long hours. Sadly she can't even find one of those jobs at the moment.

Poor girl is now living with some (seemingly kind hearted) gay guys who have taken her in with free board if she cooks and cleans. She can't afford to go out or do anything really. She studies, eats rice and that is it.

We had her over for the day today and cooked lunch and dinner for her and generally entertained her. Just trying to lift her spirits really.

What a scam. The buggers in Thailand at the 'agency' have ruined this poor womans life financially for many years to come - absolute scumbags! Shame on them.

I wonder if this is common?

Sad? - yes, but common as chips: Thailand is well known for its visa and overseas work permitt rip-off-agents - its been going on for years. Thousands like her in the same position. She's very lucky - she has found some folk who are treating her decently - a lot of folk in her position land up in very much sader cirucmstances - in particular the girls!

[neverdie]

byoung,

The case I know of the people actually went to the authorities in the other country (immigration) & told them the full story & immigration there was very helpful.

Naturally these people that have done this will have to deal with the NZ Immigration or at least the NZ Embassy, so perhaps a red flag can be brought against their name to stop this type of thing happening in the future.

This is slightly different to the scam I new of & also involved another country, but generally the same thing. VERY POOR FORM!

Good advice as always neverdie. I'll talk to Tui and see what she'd like to do. The thais in NZ generally don't like to make a fuss with immigration or the department of labour because they assume they have done something wrong. I'd like to get ten minutes with the scumbag 'agents' to 'explain' my point of view to them!

Hey byoung,

The thais involved in the case I am talking about didnt want to goto the authorities either, so I spoke with immigration and explained the situation without revealing who I was speaking about and they were very very helpful and asked me to bring the person in & they issued a bridging visa which allowed her time to find a job & sponsor, which happened about 8 weeks later & the applicaiton for the same was expedited and she was allowed to stay and work. It may be worth someone in NZ doing the same, I am sure this isnt the first case they have seen like this.....OHH and also, they chased down the scammer too, but im not sure of what the outcome was.

Best of luck.

[Eff1n2ret]

Without wishing in any way to criticise the unfortunate lady, I'm just curious about what she actually thought she was going to do on a "study and work" visa (if such a thing exists in NZ)? What study did she intend to do? If she arrived on a student visa, presumably some sort of course must have been arranged? Has she attended?

Or was she told "OK, your visa is for study as well as work, but (nod and wink) nobody's going to bother if you don't study". In that case she was to some extent the author of her own misfortune, as she was willing to participate in a deception to get the visa.

She fits the profile of millions in the Third World who invest their life savings and go into debt in order to emigrate permanently. A large number are cruelly exploited, and if she was in the UK she could be classed as a "Victim of Trafficking", and be offered assistance (although not necessarily given permission to stay permanently).

[Groongthep]

The only job she could get would be working at a thai restaurant illegally where they will pay her slave wages for long hours.

It is truly a shame what happened to this poor woman and I do sympathize with her predicament.

I know it must be terribly disappointing to her but if she cannot work legally she should return to Thailand rather than work illegally in the type of restaurant you mention above however. If she gets caught she will most likely never be able to return again legitimately.

If I may digress off topic a bit, it does make a statement as to why tipping may not be such bad a practice as some in NZ and Australia contend. In North America the problem is just the opposite. Thai graduates from good universities often overstay their student visas after graduation (often with MBA diplomas) in order to work in Thai restaurants where they make more money waiting tables than they can working with a business degree in Thailand.

[dee123]

It seems a shame with so many of these visa scams still accuring that Thai broadcasters could not give out public infomation advice to alert everyone of this type of practice.

[scottyd]

That is shocking, I hope she gets everything sorted out. Hopefully these scam artists don't get away with it much longer.

[Artisi]

Anyway, upon arrival in New Zealand she discovers the visa is in fact not a work visa but a study visa and there is no job here for her. The only job she could get would be working at a thai restaurant illegally where they will pay her slave wages for long hours. Sadly she can't even find one of those jobs at the moment.

Check the rules /regulations re study / work visa in NZ. For Australia, a study visa usually allows up to 20 hrs / week of legitimate work.

Edited March 8, 2009 by Artisi

[Pakeha]

Without wishing in any way to criticise the unfortunate lady, I'm just curious about what she actually thought she was going to do on a "study and work" visa (if such a thing exists in NZ)? What study did she intend to do? If she arrived on a student visa, presumably some sort of course must have been arranged? Has she attended?

Or was she told "OK, your visa is for study as well as work, but (nod and wink) nobody's going to bother if you don't study". In that case she was to some extent the author of her own misfortune, as she was willing to participate in a deception to get the visa.

She fits the profile of millions in the Third World who invest their life savings and go into debt in order to emigrate permanently. A large number are cruelly exploited, and if she was in the UK she could be classed as a "Victim of Trafficking", and be offered assistance (although not necessarily given permission to stay permanently).

There isn't a 'work and study' visa as such. There is a student visa where you are allowed to work a small amount of hours but I'm not really sure of the details. I know she has been turned away from legitimate jobs because she doesn't have a work permit. Was she silly to believe these people - Yes. Should we blame her or the scammers for her situation? Caveat emptor etc. etc. but I still think your a prick if you make money by scamming people and you can't really blame an overly innocent young teacher from Thailand for not realising the world can be a cruel place. I'm sure she has well and truly learnt her lesson.

She is studying as she intended to. The point is she thought she would have a job when she got here and was lead to believe she would be able to earn good (reasonable, or even any) money whilst studying. So her life in NZ is pretty miserable which isn't the experience I want people to have when they come to NZ. She hasn't seen anything other than the inner city in the month she's been here.

Anyway, thanks to TV I have had some contact from people who are keen to help and try to get this woman on track. Thanks TV and the member that has contacted me.

Edited March 8, 2009 by byoung2

[david96]

From the NZIS website

Applying for a student visa to study in NZ.

http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/stream/study/

Follow the links.

[kiakaha]

a genuine scam ? or maybe a confused immigrant from the outset getting even more confused by the lack of and/or poor and inaccurate information from people she's encountered in NZL ?

30 seconds googling :

you can legally work in NZL on a study visa up to 20 hrs a week, subject to conditions.

Working while studying

You can work part time while studying full time, under certain circumstances:

for up to 20 hours in any given week during the academic year if you are in full-time study:

* at a private training establishment or tertiary institution and taking at least two academic years to complete, or

* culminating in a New Zealand qualification that would qualify for points under the Skilled Migrant Category, or

* at a secondary school full year course of study in years 12 or 13, provided you have written permission from your school and written consent from your parent, or

* in a full-time study course lasting at least six months, at a private training establishment or tertiary institution. Your visa or immigration officer has to be satisfied that the main purpose of your course of study is to develop English language skills, and, you have an International English Language Testing System (IELTS) overall band score of 5.0 or above (General or Academic Module), or

* at a tertiary level of at least one academic year duration as part of an approved tertiary student exchange scheme.

[Sporting Dog]

I was in Thailand recently and had dinner with some friends of my Wife. The youngest daughter had a visa application in to come to Sydney, Oz for 3 yrs to study and also do some 'thai massage'. She has paid a lot of money (all that she has and more) and genuinely believes that this is a great opportunity for her to study and make lots of money. She is scared but grasps at the dream that has been sold to her.

I voiced my concerns - her friends and family are very concerned but the small chance it might be the golden opportunity attracts them all greatly. I don't believe that there are well paid jobs for girls doing thai massage!!!?? and I don't believe that there is any need to bring them in from Thailand to do it..... You know what I am saying.

These girls are naive (despite being University educated) and poor and really want to believe that they will get rich and life will be easy, but I fear they will be exploited - and worse. We have told her that if she does get to Australia, to contact us if she has problems - we are on the other side of the country. But I fear that we will be able to do very little - and I don't know what influence these sort of people (the agents) have back in Thailand. I really hope that the govt knocks back her visa application - it will crush her but I can't help but think it will be the best in the long run.

Edited March 9, 2009 by Sporting Dog

[Artisi]

I was in Thailand recently and had dinner with some friends of my Wife. The youngest daughter had a visa application in to come to Sydney, Oz for 3 yrs to study and also do some 'thai massage'. She has paid a lot of money (all that she has and more) and genuinely believes that this is a great opportunity for her to study and make lots of money. She is scared but grasps at the dream that has been sold to her.

I voiced my concerns - her friends and family are very concerned but the small chance it might be the golden opportunity attracts them all greatly. I don't believe that there are well paid jobs for girls doing thai massage!!!?? and I don't believe that there is any need to bring them in from Thailand to do it..... You know what I am saying.

These girls are naive (despite being University educated) and poor and really want to believe that they will get rich and life will be easy, but I fear they will be exploited - and worse. We have told her that if she does get to Australia, to contact us if she has problems - we are on the other side of the country. But I fear that we will be able to do very little - and I don't know what influence these sort of people (the agents) have back in Thailand. I really hope that the govt knocks back her visa application - it will crush her but I can't help but think it will be the best in the long run.

There is a big difference between Thai massage and prostitution to which I assume you are referring. Wise consul would be better served than hoping that her visa application is rejected.

Having taught for a number of years at academic level in Thailand it is noticable that the increased maturity is beyond belief for most students lucky enough to be given the chance to study somewhere like Australia.

[Pakeha]

a genuine scam ? or maybe a confused immigrant from the outset getting even more confused by the lack of and/or poor and inaccurate information from people she's encountered in NZL ?

30 seconds googling :

you can legally work in NZL on a study visa up to 20 hrs a week, subject to conditions.

Working while studying

You can work part time while studying full time, under certain circumstances:

for up to 20 hours in any given week during the academic year if you are in full-time study:

* at a private training establishment or tertiary institution and taking at least two academic years to complete, or

* culminating in a New Zealand qualification that would qualify for points under the Skilled Migrant Category, or

* at a secondary school full year course of study in years 12 or 13, provided you have written permission from your school and written consent from your parent, or

* in a full-time study course lasting at least six months, at a private training establishment or tertiary institution. Your visa or immigration officer has to be satisfied that the main purpose of your course of study is to develop English language skills, and, you have an International English Language Testing System (IELTS) overall band score of 5.0 or above (General or Academic Module), or

* at a tertiary level of at least one academic year duration as part of an approved tertiary student exchange scheme.

I don't believe she meets any of these requirements. The closest she would come is the one I have highlighted but there's no way her IELTS would be 5.0 or above. And you can't really blame the people in NZL for trying to help her can you? We weren't responsible for getting her into this mess but will certainly try to help get her out.

If she could afford a real immigration consultant or lawyer I am sure she would get very accurate advice but that's not really an option.

You're such a cynic Kia Kaha

[samuibeachcomber]

Yes, I have seen this type of thing before, story too long to go into, but it seems when it comes to the mighty dollar (or baht), there are no limit to some peoples boundaries.

I wonder if they sleep well at night?

a conscience ND is a thing of the past,i think its something that has to be instilled in you at a young age and for the last 20 years that has been lacking,so it must be easy to lose.A prime example are politicians,bankers and so called financial gurus.............and the answer to your question "do they sleep well at night" is yes.

[Sporting Dog]

^ yes, they sleep in king size beds, between silken sheets with women so stunningly beautiful it would make you weep.!

[david96]

If one applies for a student visa for Australia or New Zealand the applicant will be subject to an interview by immigration and one of the criteria is for proof of enrollment at an accredited educational institution in these countries.

Also you must also prove your financial resources to live and study.