Look For Advice On Getting A Patent & How To Approach Investors

[Jingthing]

I can't speak for Thailand but normally in the US people are advised to first obtain provisional patents before speaking with anybody. That is one of the main reason people go through the provisional patent step. Indeed getting a provincial patent can be done at a fraction of an actual patent. It is also very temporary.

If you are talking about a Thai patent, I would suggest finding out if there is such a thing as a Thai provisional patent.

This link will give some idea of how thorny the law can be using nondisclosure agreements with no patent. In other words, their protections are in real life much more limited than even a provisional patent:

How to Protect an Idea during the Early Stages – Nondisclosure Agreements or Provisional Patent Applications

Nondisclosure agreements create a state law contractual obligation, and thus, contractual damages for breach. These fact-specific enforcement actions are often expensive and lengthy endeavors. The strength of a nondisclosure agreement is proportional to the specificity of the confidential information covered by the agreement. Whereas nondisclosure agreements are written fairly broadly, used alone, they may not offer the best protection to an inventor’s proprietary technology. In many cases, it is preferable to base a nondisclosure agreement on a filed patent application, including a provisional application. This creates a firm scope of the technology being disclosed, as well as potential federal causes of action for infringement on a patent that issues from such patent application or the utility application claiming priority to a provisional application.

Nondisclosure agreements are often used when a new concept is brought to a third party for manufacturability/marketability analysis or assistance in reducing it to practice. These meetings often become collaborative “think tank” sessions and it may become difficult to sort out which technology was brought in and which technology evolved as a consequence of the collaboration. Inventorship issues arise as well as disputes over ownership of the technology. A simple nondisclosure with broadly listed subject matter may not effectively assist in resolving these fact-specific conflicts. On the other hand, a filed patent application would be extremely helpful in establishing the bounds of the concept or invention prior to any collaboration or improvement.

It is important to remember that even “patent pending” indicates that an application has been made seeking a patent; it is not a guaranty of a patent being issued by the Patent Office. Additionally, provisional patent applications have no enforceable claims and may provide only limited protection if they are not converted to utility applications within one year. Thus, if a patent never issues as a result of an unpublished application (provisional applications, design applications, and utility applications with nonpublication requests and applications abandoned prior to publication), it may still be a trade secret. Once the “cat is out of the bag” without an NDA, it may be difficult to maintain it was a trade secret. Conservative practice would include the use of both provisional patents AND confidentiality agreements.

http://www.rochesterpatents.com/patent.htm...%20APPLICATIONS

Edited March 14, 2009 by Jingthing

[OriginalPoster]

I can't speak for Thailand but normally in the US people are advised to first obtain provisional patents before speaking with anybody. That is one of the main reason people go through the provisional patent step. Indeed getting a provincial patent can be done at a fraction of an actual patent. It is also very temporary.

This link will give some idea of how thorny the law can be using nondisclosure agreements with no patent. In other words, their protections are in real life much more limited than even a provisional patent:

How to Protect an Idea during the Early Stages – Nondisclosure Agreements or Provisional Patent Applications

Nondisclosure agreements create a state law contractual obligation, and thus, contractual damages for breach. These fact-specific enforcement actions are often expensive and lengthy endeavors. The strength of a nondisclosure agreement is proportional to the specificity of the confidential information covered by the agreement. Whereas nondisclosure agreements are written fairly broadly, used alone, they may not offer the best protection to an inventor’s proprietary technology. In many cases, it is preferable to base a nondisclosure agreement on a filed patent application, including a provisional application. This creates a firm scope of the technology being disclosed, as well as potential federal causes of action for infringement on a patent that issues from such patent application or the utility application claiming priority to a provisional application.

Nondisclosure agreements are often used when a new concept is brought to a third party for manufacturability/marketability analysis or assistance in reducing it to practice. These meetings often become collaborative “think tank” sessions and it may become difficult to sort out which technology was brought in and which technology evolved as a consequence of the collaboration. Inventorship issues arise as well as disputes over ownership of the technology. A simple nondisclosure with broadly listed subject matter may not effectively assist in resolving these fact-specific conflicts. On the other hand, a filed patent application would be extremely helpful in establishing the bounds of the concept or invention prior to any collaboration or improvement.

It is important to remember that even “patent pending” indicates that an application has been made seeking a patent; it is not a guaranty of a patent being issued by the Patent Office. Additionally, provisional patent applications have no enforceable claims and may provide only limited protection if they are not converted to utility applications within one year. Thus, if a patent never issues as a result of an unpublished application (provisional applications, design applications, and utility applications with nonpublication requests and applications abandoned prior to publication), it may still be a trade secret. Once the “cat is out of the bag” without an NDA, it may be difficult to maintain it was a trade secret. Conservative practice would include the use of both provisional patents AND confidentiality agreements.

http://www.rochesterpatents.com/patent.htm...%20APPLICATIONS

Non-disclosure agreements work best when you have chosen your partners well, in other words in cases where you are dealing with an essentially honest person or company. They work better still if you are dealing with a partner who has a strong business reason not to screw you over. Best to file for a patent as soon as you can, but sometimes you have no choice but to consult with 3rd parties in advance of that.

Edited March 14, 2009 by OriginalPoster

[bunnaag]

Dear all,

Thank you for reading this. I have an unpatented invention that could lift the misery and greatly improve the living condition of the masses Thai people. There is nothing like it before. This invention is very new and nothing the world has seen before. This product has all the 8 Ps in marketing and i am going to make sure this end product is sold in a very affordable way so that everyone can own a piece of it.

The problem is i do not have the means to carry out a patent filing and the cost of getting a patent attorney, etc to get it done the right way so am planning to source experienced & most importantly honest investors that I could trust very soon, to assist on my dream to help mankind.

Is there a way to present and convince them to help fund my project without disclosing my prototype idea to them? Not before i have the idea patented rightfully under my name.

Please tell me what to do. I am very lost and confused. Any advise will be very appreciated. The product and concept are all in my head. Awaiting to be made. Just lacking in funds to make it happen and market it.

Thank you

Avante

About 16 years ago an American named Bill who, together with a Swede,was running a place called Squeeze Inn around Sukhumvit Soi 25 was also talking about an invention of tremendous use to everybody and was looking for investors.He asked all the customers about the colour they like most.But he never said-even when he was drunk-what kind of invention it was.Is your name Bill?

[OriginalPoster]

Dear all,

Thank you for reading this. I have an unpatented invention that could lift the misery and greatly improve the living condition of the masses Thai people. There is nothing like it before. This invention is very new and nothing the world has seen before. This product has all the 8 Ps in marketing and i am going to make sure this end product is sold in a very affordable way so that everyone can own a piece of it.

The problem is i do not have the means to carry out a patent filing and the cost of getting a patent attorney, etc to get it done the right way so am planning to source experienced & most importantly honest investors that I could trust very soon, to assist on my dream to help mankind.

Is there a way to present and convince them to help fund my project without disclosing my prototype idea to them? Not before i have the idea patented rightfully under my name.

Please tell me what to do. I am very lost and confused. Any advise will be very appreciated. The product and concept are all in my head. Awaiting to be made. Just lacking in funds to make it happen and market it.

Thank you

Avante

About 16 years ago an American named Bill who, together with a Swede,was running a place called Squeeze Inn around Sukhumvit Soi 25 was also talking about an invention of tremendous use to everybody and was looking for investors.He asked all the customers about the colour they like most.But he never said-even when he was drunk-what kind of invention it was.Is your name Bill?

It seems to be a fairly common syndrome. I've also met people who tell you about their great secret invention and try to make you guess what it is. Problem is, they never will let the topic drop, and if given the opportunity will insist for hours on end that you keep on trying to guess their secret. All you can really do is find another bar at that point.

[aussiejosh]

If its really worth keeping to yourself, get a job and save. Do it right and protect yourself.

[sgunn65]

As someone who might qualify as an investor what would I want? In the absence of knowing what i would be investing in:

A percentage of ownership in the product and patent which would be higher because of the higher risk.

Full disclosure of business plan and projected cost (with verifiable references)

A non disclosure agreement as well as voting rights on any potential investors.

Full disclosure at the time of money changing hands. A third party holding the money.

If I held the great idea I doubt if i would want to agree to those terms though.

But I have the money and that gives me negotiating power. You have the idea. Good luck

[TEFLMike]

Ye Olde Saying Dept, "If you must make a deal with the Devil, make a good deal and get it in writing."

[Dakhar]

Dear all,

Thank you for reading this. I have an unpatented invention that could lift the misery and greatly improve the living condition of the masses Thai people. There is nothing like it before. This invention is very new and nothing the world has seen before. This product has all the 8 Ps in marketing and i am going to make sure this end product is sold in a very affordable way so that everyone can own a piece of it.

The problem is i do not have the means to carry out a patent filing and the cost of getting a patent attorney, etc to get it done the right way so am planning to source experienced & most importantly honest investors that I could trust very soon, to assist on my dream to help mankind.

Is there a way to present and convince them to help fund my project without disclosing my prototype idea to them? Not before i have the idea patented rightfully under my name.

Please tell me what to do. I am very lost and confused. Any advise will be very appreciated. The product and concept are all in my head. Awaiting to be made. Just lacking in funds to make it happen and market it.

Thank you

Avante

It doesn't matter how well you dress up logic, it will never catch on in Thailand, the market it just not interested.

[Avante]

Dear all,

Thank you for reading this. I have an unpatented invention that could lift the misery and greatly improve the living condition of the masses Thai people. There is nothing like it before. This invention is very new and nothing the world has seen before. This product has all the 8 Ps in marketing and i am going to make sure this end product is sold in a very affordable way so that everyone can own a piece of it.

The problem is i do not have the means to carry out a patent filing and the cost of getting a patent attorney, etc to get it done the right way so am planning to source experienced & most importantly honest investors that I could trust very soon, to assist on my dream to help mankind.

Is there a way to present and convince them to help fund my project without disclosing my prototype idea to them? Not before i have the idea patented rightfully under my name.

Please tell me what to do. I am very lost and confused. Any advise will be very appreciated. The product and concept are all in my head. Awaiting to be made. Just lacking in funds to make it happen and market it.

Thank you

Avante

About 16 years ago an American named Bill who, together with a Swede,was running a place called Squeeze Inn around Sukhumvit Soi 25 was also talking about an invention of tremendous use to everybody and was looking for investors.He asked all the customers about the colour they like most.But he never said-even when he was drunk-what kind of invention it was.Is your name Bill?

Hi Bunaag ! Nope i am not your Bill. My name is Bond actually...James Bond..Lol Just kidding

But well no. I am not Bill

[Avante]

Guys..Does anyone of you have any idea how much an Thai patent lawyer cost to assist me ? Just called an law office..who transferred me to their Bangkok office and said Bangkok will call me..Geez before i even said anything they pressured and asked me wheather do i want to come down to their local office and sign the contract at 10am..

My god..I was justing asking for a simple price quote..

What is the world coming too ?

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Suggest you ask a patent attorney, the information would be more realistic. But I assume the more complex the idea the more it will cost. How long is a piece of string?

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi.

This is the problem with patents and attorneys/lawyers. I thought once i'd need one, picked an ad from the BKK post ("free consultation"), called and was invited to go there to ask my question in person. Once there then i was informed that i could ask my question(s) but an answer would cost 15,000 Baht. Or some such.

About patents, i have the very same problem - a head full of good, if not great, ideas (i "invented" the Seiko "AGS", nowadays known as "Kinetic", when i was 7 or 8 years old.... asking my grandfather "why can't they make a dynamo that charges a quartz watch's battery from ones arm movement", referring to my notoriously unprecise old automatic watch and my grandfather's quartz that needed a new battery every year. His answer: "It's too small, not possible". Well, Seiko had it a few years later). But no money to realize the ideas - either to file for patents based on the idea itself (or a plan which i could make on paper) or to build a prototype to demonstrate to prospective investors/manufacturers.

Currently (in light of the "skimming scam" wave in Thailand) i have an idea about an ATM security device.... and i BET that someone WILL get the same idea after some time and we'll see ATM's with it employed.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[imjustagirl]

Hi There

I did a patent in the UK a few years ago and paid a bit extra and it was registered as a worldwide patent. I had completely forgotten about it until i saw it online the other day!!! From what i remember it cost me about 300 uk pounds and is for five years from patent granted, which takes about 6 months for approval. You submit a clear diagramatic technical drawing and full info on its purpose etc. I just sent for the forms from the UK patent office and submitted them....then lost interest....

You can extend your patent for i think several more years by paying for each subsequent year you want to hang onto it.

You can get full info on the UK patent website. Good luck, hope its a winner for you!

[MiG16]

moving this to the business forum

cheers

[skippybangkok]

You can, I believe discuss your ideas with prospective investors, but they must sign a confidentiality agreement first.

At least pay a lawyer to draft a proper agreement.

Agreed, probably the best way. Have never seen a court case yet based on an NDA though

[loong]

Agreed, probably the best way. Have never seen a court case yet based on an NDA though smile.gif

Shows just how well NDA's work then doesn't it ?

[quiksilva]

You can, I believe discuss your ideas with prospective investors, but they must sign a confidentiality agreement first.

At least pay a lawyer to draft a proper agreement.

Agreed, probably the best way. Have never seen a court case yet based on an NDA though

I have (not me thankfully) but I know of a hotel investor who won a case based on illicit disclosure of confidential material as defined by an NDA.

Edited March 17, 2009 by quiksilva

[skippybangkok]

You can, I believe discuss your ideas with prospective investors, but they must sign a confidentiality agreement first.

At least pay a lawyer to draft a proper agreement.

Agreed, probably the best way. Have never seen a court case yet based on an NDA though

I have (not me thankfully) but I know of a hotel investor who won a case based on illicit disclosure of confidential material as defined by an NDA.

Cool.....gives me more confidence in NDA's. Always felt they were micky mouse documents.

[sykdevil]

You could try what imjustagirl said, by filing a worldwide patent, with this it lets you have time to file individual country patents on a later date. Worldwide patent does not mean it'll cover all the places...go read about it on wikipedia if you want more info. I wouldn't try to launch an idea like that in Thailand, because laws are not enforced strictly, better to try it in the States or some European country if you are serious.

You could also forget about the patent, and launch the idea in a mass scale, be the first one to capture the market share. If its such a great idea, it'll catch on quickly and you will be able to make good money before a competitor jumps in. Or file a provisional patent, and shop your idea around with potential companies, sell your idea to a company and make royalties off of it. Thats just another thought.

[Avante]

You could try what imjustagirl said, by filing a worldwide patent, with this it lets you have time to file individual country patents on a later date. Worldwide patent does not mean it'll cover all the places...go read about it on wikipedia if you want more info. I wouldn't try to launch an idea like that in Thailand, because laws are not enforced strictly, better to try it in the States or some European country if you are serious.

You could also forget about the patent, and launch the idea in a mass scale, be the first one to capture the market share. If its such a great idea, it'll catch on quickly and you will be able to make good money before a competitor jumps in. Or file a provisional patent, and shop your idea around with potential companies, sell your idea to a company and make royalties off of it. Thats just another thought.

Thank you, Good practical advise.