Boeing 777 Problems

[Nip]

Just read the following article in the London Times ...

New safety measures 'won't stop faulty jet crashing

World News Home

Times London

By Ben Webster In London

Saturday March 14 2009

INTERIM safety measures introduced on 220 airliners with a potentially fatal engine flaw are "insufficient" to prevent the risk of another crash.

The National Transportation Safety Board said that passengers could not be sure that the procedures, adopted by airlines flying Boeing 777s with Rolls-Royce engines, would work.

The NTSB also dismissed suggestions by Rolls-Royce that the problem was largely confined to flights in unusually cold conditions, such as those experienced by a British Airways 777 that crashed at London's Heathrow airport in January last year.

It said that a second engine failure on a Delta Airlines 777 last November had shown that ice could block the fuel supply on any long-range flight by one of the 220 aircraft. It concluded that another 777 engine failure could occur "at temperatures commonly encountered by long-range transport airplanes".

Pressure

The board's findings, set out in a letter to the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA), will increase the pressure on BA to ground 15 of its 777s until the flawed component is replaced with a redesigned part.

The board said: "Until the current fuel/oil heat exchangers are replaced by heat exchangers more tolerant to ice accretion, additional failures to achieve commanded thrust could occur and could result in a serious accident."

BA said: "We operate 251 aircraft and we would not be able to offer customers the detail of the engine type that would be powering their aircraft." (© The Times, London)

[khundon]

Don't worry chaps, there will be a fix in a year or so.

Have a nice flight, and hope you get to where ever you are going.

[think_too_mut]

Here is one...I was on it in July 2008, my family went to Thai just yesterday, on the same machine, HS-TJF:

[endure]

The BBC had a 777 pilot on yesterday explaining all the extra procedures that have been put in place to get around the problem while Rolls Royce sort it out permanently. They all sounded very plausible. He also pointed out that pilots were unlikely to fly a plane which they thought was going to drop out of the sky while they were sitting up front.

[T_Dog]

The 777 is known as an ETOPS aircraft, or Extended Trans-Oceanic Passenger Service aircraft. Pilots affectionately translate that acronym to Engines Turn or Passengers Swim.

[Zpete]

Why worry?

I am a fatalist, when my clock stops as it is scheduled, I will die.

Beit in a Boeing 777, or me bed, the curtain will fall.

[khaosai]

Hi,

there is now a Bulletin for Rolls Royce Trent engines that needs to be considered during cold fuel operations.

The investigation identified the potential for a restriction in fuel flow under certain conditions. This can be caused by ice build up in the fuel tanks and plumbing system. The ice then collects at the Engine Fuel/Oil Heat Exchanger (FOHE). Most of the time the FOHE would cope with the ice build up.

The Bulletin now basically ensures all climbs are carried out at full power and that max thrust is applied during cruise within a certain time period prior to top of descent if the fuel temp reaches a certain level. This will prevent a long term build up of ice causing a problem.

Rgds.

[Ricardo]

Why worry?

I am a fatalist, when my clock stops as it is scheduled, I will die.

Beit in a Boeing 777, or me bed, the curtain will fall.

But I personally would rather not be on the plane, when the pilot's clock stops, thank-you !

Reminds me of the old joke, "I want to die peacefully in my sleep, as my father did, not screaming in fear like the passengers on the bus he was driving".

[namoo]

Extended Trans-Oceanic Passenger Service

err..no...

It means Extended Twin Operations

[ACMIKE]

Extended Trans-Oceanic Passenger Service

err..no...

It means Extended Twin Operations

Actually it means:

Extended-range Twin-engine Operational Performance Standards

[namoo]

Actually it means:

Extended-range Twin-engine Operational Performance Standards

Everyone loves google

ExtendedTwinOpS - what the drivers refer to it as.

[Mosha]

The temporary solution is for the RR powered aircraft to over reve the engines, thus creating more heat.

[T_Dog]

Actually it means:

Extended-range Twin-engine Operational Performance Standards

Everyone loves google

ExtendedTwinOpS - what the drivers refer to it as.

Yep! Just surprised it took this long for someone to correct me. The 777 is a great aircraft though, all joking aside.

[nookiebear]

The temporary solution is for the RR powered aircraft to over reve the engines, thus creating more heat.

With due respect how due 'OVER REVE THE ENGINE'.?????????

[Pomthai]

The temporary solution is for the RR powered aircraft to over reve the engines, thus creating more heat.

With due respect how due 'OVER REVE THE ENGINE'.?????????

Surely they just drop the clutch and floor it! That's not flaps or landing gear your feel whilst on board its the clutch being let out to quick by those boy racer pilots.

[Mosha]

The temporary solution is for the RR powered aircraft to over reve the engines, thus creating more heat.

With due respect how due 'OVER REVE THE ENGINE'.?????????

I don't know the technicalities of it, I just know that I read they were told to run the engines at faster revs, to create more heat in the pipes etc. This is supposed to melt any ice forming in the fuel lines

[stevehaigh]

The temporary solution is for the RR powered aircraft to over reve the engines, thus creating more heat.

With due respect how due 'OVER REVE THE ENGINE'.?????????

Surely they just drop the clutch and floor it! That's not flaps or landing gear your feel whilst on board its the clutch being let out to quick by those boy racer pilots.

i tried dropping the clutch and flooring it, but all that happened was i got right yaw. i'll have my Thai mechanic take a look at my 777.

[Groongthep]

For passengers, the perception of safety on any aircraft is directly proportional to the amount of booze consumed before boarding the airplane.

[ilyushin]

Boeing 777

Edited April 16, 2009 by ilyushin

[macduff]

Maybe the increase in thrust and using full power at take off speed will reduce the ice build up and short bursts of power at cruising altitudes, BUT can this aircraft still be called ER. I would suggest the aircraft be called SR.

[mackayae]

Why don't they replace the engines with PW or GE, until the problem is solved.

[Groongthep]

Why don't they replace the engines with PW or GE, until the problem is solved.

Money.

[Mosha]

I may be wrong, but I'm sure it's not just a matter of sticking a different manufacturers engine in.

[nonthaburial]

I may be wrong, but I'm sure it's not just a matter of sticking a different manufacturers engine in.

I tend to agree mosha, the problems appear not to be the engines but the fuel feed to the engines

[stevehaigh]

I may be wrong, but I'm sure it's not just a matter of sticking a different manufacturers engine in.

I tend to agree mosha, the problems appear not to be the engines but the fuel feed to the engines

i think the problem is only with the rolls royce engines. do you know how jet engines cost?, i took a tour of the Boeing factory a few years ago. they said they order the engines at the last possible moment in assembly because to have them sitting around the factory, the interest payments on them alone would be astronomic.

[khaosai]

Hi,

there is now a Bulletin for Rolls Royce Trent engines that needs to be considered during cold fuel operations.

The investigation identified the potential for a restriction in fuel flow under certain conditions. This can be caused by ice build up in the fuel tanks and plumbing system. The ice then collects at the Engine Fuel/Oil Heat Exchanger (FOHE). Most of the time the FOHE would cope with the ice build up.

The Bulletin now basically ensures all climbs are carried out at full power and that max thrust is applied during cruise within a certain time period prior to top of descent if the fuel temp reaches a certain level. This will prevent a long term build up of ice causing a problem.

Rgds.

[gk10002000]

I try to avoid the 777 anyway. I find the ride is pretty harsh, and the seats too firm, and at an odd angle for my butt and back. I much prefer the 747. It rides smoother, more like a buick floating ride. In addition, I really do like having four engines.