International Driver License Scam

[johnefallis]

If you read the disclaimer and terms of use on the website www.international-license.com advertised on ThaiVisa, you quickly realize that it is a scam and there is nothing legal or binding about the product they offer. My suggestion would be a much cheaper option is available at Khaosan Road "for entertainment purposes only", for less than even the shipping of this product.

[Maestro]

...you quickly realize that it is a scam...

It doesn’t look like a scam to me. From Article 41 of the 1968 “Convention on Road Traffic”

Contracting Parties shall recognize:

(a) Any domestic permit drawn up in their national language or in one of their national languages, or, if not drawn up in such a language, accompanied by a certified translation;

Source: www.unece.org/trans/conventn/crt1968e.pdf

--

Maestro

[harrry]

The permit shall be printed in the language or languages prescribed by the

authority issuing it or empowered to issue it

Although one state has authorised a comany as a translation service it is not clear that they have any authority to issue the document especially for licences of other states.

Edited March 15, 2009 by harrry

[Farma]

What they are offering looks nothing like the 10 valid international driving permits (convention 1949) I've been issued by motoring organizations from 2 countries over the years. The maximum time per permit is 1 year. Thailand is a signatory party to the 1949 convention.

I know this is from Wiki but .....

Convention 1968

The Vienna Convention on Road Traffic was not ratified by all signatory parties. Notable cases of countries that refused or delayed ratification include Chile, Republic of China (Taiwan), Costa Rica, Ecuador, Ghana, Holy See, Indonesia, Japan, Mexico, Portugal, Republic of Korea, Spain, Thailand, United Kingdom, and Venezuela.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Driving_Permit

Edited March 15, 2009 by Farma

[Farma]

Just to add a little bit more.

The website listed in the OP is offering International Driver Documents (IDD) and lists its address in Florida.

Government and Automobile Association websites refer to legitimate permits as International Driving Permits (IDP).

This is from the US government’s website. (I have highlighted an important part of the quote.)

http://www.usa.gov/Topics/Foreign_Visitors_Driving.shtml

“The U.S. government has issued warnings about Internet vendors of worthless international driver's licenses/permits. It is important to educate yourself about the dangers of these costly and illegal operations. See International Driver's License Warning from Federal Trade Commission. You must get an International Driver's Permit from your home country. If you are an American traveling abroad, go to the Automobile Association of America (AAA) or the National Automobile Club (NAC), the only vendors authorized by the U.S. Department of State, before you leave the U.S.”

[Soutpeel]

The 10 year, 5 year IDD are a "scam" which ever way they are spun...

A real IDL is issued by AA, AAA etc and are valid for a year only....

All a IDL is...is a legalised translation of your current valid DL.....no more..no less, it cant be used as a "stand alone" Driver license and always needs to be accompanied by a valid DL for your own country or country of residence..

[Priceless]

It is obviously a scam. E.g. they refer to the 1949 convention, while claiming that their "document" is valid for three years. The 1949 convention only allows for a 1-year validity.

As has been pointed out above, IDPs (International Driver Permits) may only be issued by authorized organisations in the country that issued the original licence.

/ Priceless

[Thanh-BKK]

Err....

While the mentioned website is clearly a scam (actually not - they don't sell an "International Driving License" but instead an "International Driver DOCUMENT", hear them!) there are longer-term IDL's which are perfectly legit.

I got one from Germany that was good for 5 years - they had 1, 3 and 5 years available, the 1-year was free, 3 year cost a bit and 5-year cost more. As German local driving licenses are always life-time that is no problem, as mentioned an IDL is in any case only valid along with a national one and if the national one can't expire there is no problem for a long-term IDL. In Germany the IDL is issued by the same Authority that issues national driving licenses, in order to get one you need to (obviously!) hold a national one and pay the fee, that's it.

I still have it somewhere but too lazy to hunt it down now, it expired three years ago and meantime i got 5-year Thai ones.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[hkt83100]

..., in order to get one you need to (obviously!) hold a national one and pay the fee, that's it.

And you have to be registered as being resident in this city where you apply, too.

[Priceless]

Err....

While the mentioned website is clearly a scam (actually not - they don't sell an "International Driving License" but instead an "International Driver DOCUMENT", hear them!) there are longer-term IDL's which are perfectly legit.

I got one from Germany that was good for 5 years - they had 1, 3 and 5 years available, the 1-year was free, 3 year cost a bit and 5-year cost more. As German local driving licenses are always life-time that is no problem, as mentioned an IDL is in any case only valid along with a national one and if the national one can't expire there is no problem for a long-term IDL. In Germany the IDL is issued by the same Authority that issues national driving licenses, in order to get one you need to (obviously!) hold a national one and pay the fee, that's it.

I still have it somewhere but too lazy to hunt it down now, it expired three years ago and meantime i got 5-year Thai ones.

Best regards.....

Thanh

It would be fascinating if you could hunt it down, and then post a scan of it here. The reason is that there are only two types of IDPs that are internationally recognised, according to the 1949 convention (one year validity) and according to the 1968 convention (three year validity). Furthermore, as has been pointed out above, Thailand hasn't ratified the 1968 convention and consequently does not (at least in theory) recognize anything except IDPs issued according to the 1949 convention.

The only reason, that I can guess, why German authorities would have issued a five-year IDP would have been according to some, later expired, EU agreement. In that case, the IDP would only have been valid within the EU. There is now, as far as I know, an agreement within EU to accept each others' licences, which would make any intra-EU IDP unnecessary.

/ Priceless

[Boater]

remember it is a ' Google Adword ' and Thaivisa do not really have control over the advert showing.

they can of course block the advert, but a similar advert will just appear due to the key words in this forum

cheers

[johnefallis]

...you quickly realize that it is a scam...

It doesn't look like a scam to me. From Article 41 of the 1968 "Convention on Road Traffic"

Contracting Parties shall recognize:

(a) Any domestic permit drawn up in their national language or in one of their national languages, or, if not drawn up in such a language, accompanied by a certified translation;

Source: www.unece.org/trans/conventn/crt1968e.pdf

--

Maestro

...prescribed by the

authority issuing it or empowered to issue it...

What is their authority??? Whatever it is must also apply to Khao San road also then. "FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY" says it all.

[johnefallis]

Err....

While the mentioned website is clearly a scam (actually not - they don't sell an "International Driving License" but instead an "International Driver DOCUMENT", hear them!) there are longer-term IDL's which are perfectly legit.

I got one from Germany that was good for 5 years - they had 1, 3 and 5 years available, the 1-year was free, 3 year cost a bit and 5-year cost more. As German local driving licenses are always life-time that is no problem, as mentioned an IDL is in any case only valid along with a national one and if the national one can't expire there is no problem for a long-term IDL. In Germany the IDL is issued by the same Authority that issues national driving licenses, in order to get one you need to (obviously!) hold a national one and pay the fee, that's it.

I still have it somewhere but too lazy to hunt it down now, it expired three years ago and meantime i got 5-year Thai ones.

Best regards.....

Thanh

...sounds more like a 1,3,5 year scam as well, since I doubt any of what they provide complies with the convention, I'll believe it no sooner than when you can show proof of it AND it complies completely with the terms of the convention. Otherwise, being charged that much for something that reads in their OWN disclaimer as "FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY", pretty much yells out SCAM to me. If anyone wants to be stupid enough to be sucked into that trash, go ahead. My post is only for those that want to apply it to their "sensabilities". Again Khao San road AND or 'tea money' approach is much cheaper, AND just as, if not more than, legal. I guess because they don't claim that it is "FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY", even if the Khao San road one should. Hmmm, 100 baht 'tea money' or 5000 baht "FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY", I just can't decide....

I'm actually kind of dejected that ThaiVisa.com would take advertising dollars from such a questionable source???(did they?). I guess if they did, it would show where their loyalties are.... about the same as the 'tea money' bandits. I kind of like them though, at least you know where you stand. I laugh every time I log on and see the ad banner.

Clarification moderators?

John

Edited March 25, 2009 by johnefallis

[Thanh-BKK]

..., in order to get one you need to (obviously!) hold a national one and pay the fee, that's it.

And you have to be registered as being resident in this city where you apply, too.

Hi.

Sorry haven't been on this thread for some time. Actually, i don't know if that is the case today but back then (year 2000) it was not the case. I was registered in Kirn (small town in Bad Kreuznach province), my national license was obtained there (driving school in Kirn) and the license issued by the authority in Bad Kreuznach.

However my international license i got the day before taking off to Thailand, this was issued by the authorities in Wiesbaden where i stayed with a friend my last couple of days in Germany. I had simply forgotten to get it earlier, so i just walked in there and asked if i could get one, no problem at all, had to show my national license and provide two passport sized photos and 15 minutes later i had my international (5 years valid) one.

@Priceless

Unfortunately i think i threw it out some time ago - i had a look in my old suitcase where i keep old documents and stuff but it wasn't there. After all it expired early December 2005..... i had it sitting in the drawer all the time (never carried it with me as the local cops were happy with my German one and the international one was too large to go into a wallet) and it's not there either..... my boyfriend cleans out that drawer from time to time as items of the type "may be used at some time in the future" tend to accumulate there But it was DEFINITELY a five-year one as i was offered the three different ones there in Wiesbaden.

Best regards....

Thanh

[klikster]

remember it is a ' Google Adword ' and Thaivisa do not really have control over the advert showing.

they can of course block the advert, but a similar advert will just appear due to the key words in this forum

cheers

If you mean Adsense, the publisher, TV, can block any URL they please. While a similar ad may appear, it wouldn't be from the blocked URL.

[samgrowth]

My suggestion would be a much cheaper option is available at Khaosan Road "for entertainment purposes only", for less than even the shipping of this product.

I agree. It make no different to the Thai police. They are after your 500 Baht, not your real/fake driving license.

[tomartoh]

Khaosan road will also make fake copies of Thai driving licences, complete with authentic police stamps etc. They will pass police inspection at the roadside but doubt that they are on computer. About 4000b if I remember correctly

Uk International license can be applied for by post.

[Soutpeel]

Khaosan road will also make fake copies of Thai driving licences, complete with authentic police stamps etc. They will pass police inspection at the roadside but doubt that they are on computer. About 4000b if I remember correctly

Uk International license can be applied for by post.

If a Khaosan road DL with authentic police stamps was on the computer...it would be a real license not a fake...it would be real license obtained by fraudelant means..

[jfchandler]

I've purchased one-year International Driving Permits the last couple years from the Automobile Club of Southern California (AAA) in California, when I go back for periodic parents visits.

At least in CA, the only thing AAA offers is a one-year international permit (nothing about three years), and it indicates it must be accompanied by a valid state driver's license to be valid when used abroad. They're pretty cheap and easy to obtain, they take your photo there at the AAA office and past it into the permit folder. The whole process takes maybe 15 minutes.

I've never tried actually using/showing one of those in Thailand (even though I have them) since I'm not often driving here. But I'd be curious to know if the BIB even know what they are, or alternatively, what they'd do if they found me driving here in Thailand with only my valid CA/USA driver's license.

[Sheryl]

The 10 year, 5 year IDD are a "scam" which ever way they are spun...

A real IDL is issued by AA, AAA etc and are valid for a year only....

All a IDL is...is a legalised translation of your current valid DL.....no more..no less, it cant be used as a "stand alone" Driver license and always needs to be accompanied by a valid DL for your own country or country of residence..

Scam or not I can't say, but it's what I have, and for more than 10 years police in both Thailand and Cambodia have accepted it without question.

Many of us don't go back tyo our own countries every single year so a one year permit that has to be obtained at home is hardly feasible...

[Thanyaburi Mac]

The 10 year, 5 year IDD are a "scam" which ever way they are spun...

A real IDL is issued by AA, AAA etc and are valid for a year only....

All a IDL is...is a legalised translation of your current valid DL.....no more..no less, it cant be used as a "stand alone" Driver license and always needs to be accompanied by a valid DL for your own country or country of residence..

Scam or not I can't say, but it's what I have, and for more than 10 years police in both Thailand and Cambodia have accepted it without question.

Many of us don't go back tyo our own countries every single year so a one year permit that has to be obtained at home is hardly feasible...

Sheryl

"Harly feasible?" No, easy to do. I've just mailed my downloaded AAA application off to AAA in Portland, along with two photos, a copy of my current Oregon driver license, and $15. Should get it back in a couple of weeks. Have been doing this annually for lots of years. And, yes, at $5/year originally, then up to $10, and now $15, it does get expensive to be "legal." Only real complication is requirement for a CURRENT U.S. license.

I keep the current AAA permit in my bag and an expired one on the visor to show the BiBs in case I get stopped. Only one BiB in the last 20 years has noticed that it was expired, so with a kho tod, I got the current one out and showed it to him. And on my way, no baht 200, nothing.

I also have a Thai driving license but never show it to the BiBs, it's mainly for ID at banks and such.

Mac

[johnefallis]

The 10 year, 5 year IDD are a "scam" which ever way they are spun...

A real IDL is issued by AA, AAA etc and are valid for a year only....

All a IDL is...is a legalised translation of your current valid DL.....no more..no less, it cant be used as a "stand alone" Driver license and always needs to be accompanied by a valid DL for your own country or country of residence..

Scam or not I can't say, but it's what I have, and for more than 10 years police in both Thailand and Cambodia have accepted it without question.

Many of us don't go back tyo our own countries every single year so a one year permit that has to be obtained at home is hardly feasible...

Makes the 205 baht Thai driver license an extremely good deal then. What is that, like less than $6 U.S.

[johnefallis]

I've purchased one-year International Driving Permits the last couple years from the Automobile Club of Southern California (AAA) in California, when I go back for periodic parents visits.

At least in CA, the only thing AAA offers is a one-year international permit (nothing about three years), and it indicates it must be accompanied by a valid state driver's license to be valid when used abroad. They're pretty cheap and easy to obtain, they take your photo there at the AAA office and past it into the permit folder. The whole process takes maybe 15 minutes.

I've never tried actually using/showing one of those in Thailand (even though I have them) since I'm not often driving here. But I'd be curious to know if the BIB even know what they are, or alternatively, what they'd do if they found me driving here in Thailand with only my valid CA/USA driver's license.

They do know what the IDP is, and may ask for one, but usually will accept a western driver license. Worst case scenario it costs you 100-500 baht fine max. Since a Thai license is very cheap and easy to get, I will go that route now.

[Soutpeel]

They do know what the IDP is, and may ask for one, but usually will accept a western driver license. Worst case scenario it costs you 100-500 baht fine max. Since a Thai license is very cheap and easy to get, I will go that route now.

Bit of a generalisation is it.....stating the ALL BiB dont know what a IDP is, I was stopped many years ago, when driving on another countries DL and they asked where is my IDP was ?

Going to agree with you that the Thai DL is easy and cheap to get and cant understand why people who are here long term are fixated with IDP's.

If you are resident here get a Thai DL, at least then you know you are fully legal driving in Thailand