Failed To Get A Tourist Visa In Singapore

[Doug]

I have made many visa runs to Singapore in the past, so many I have lost count, but it's over 10. Being a Canadian, I have never had a problem: no request to show sufficient money, no request for ongoing ticket. However, I have been frustrated on more than one occasion by the embassy being closed, in spite of diligent research on the web... they close for Christian holidays, Muslim holidays, Hindu holidays, Singapore national holidays, Thai national holidays, and if a goat wanders into the compound.

I was not expecting any problems this time, and knew that the 60-day tourist visa would be free. They have now set up a waiting area under a tent, just to the right of the embassy building, with picnic tables and enough space for 30 or more people to fill out their application forms. However, there were exactly 2 people there when I arrived, and 2 more when I left. It seems that people are not rushing to visit Thailand.

I filled out my form, took it to the same Muslim lady at the window; she has worked there for as long as I have been going there. I recognized her, and I am sure she recognized me.

This time she asked to see my onward ticket. I said I had an open e-ticket with Air Canada, but she said that was not good enough. She said, "Because the visa is free, we are now requiring a real ticket with a confirmed date." I offerred to pay the SGD$50 fee, but she said no, they can't do that.

I asked her what I should do, and she said just fly back and you will get 30 days at the airport.

So I did that, and got the 30 days with no hassle, but the abortive trip cost almost 18,000 baht... 2 nights in a hotel, return air fare, meals, taxis, etc.

A bit pricey for 30 days, after which I will have to do something similar. If the "free" visa scheme is still in effect then, I will just fly out of Thailand, and then come back on the next flight; I won't wait around in a hotel, nor visit the embassy.

I have done the bus ride to Cambodia many times, and did one two weeks ago; hard on the bum, and a total waste of a day, but it only costs 2000 baht. But you only get 15 days now, and can only do that 3 times; I won't be doing any more of those.

I live in the Sukhumvit Soi 4 area; the restaurants here are mostly empty every night and the hotels have dropped their rates by 50%. Seems the "free" visa deal is not having much effect, and imposing conditions on it makes it worse. On the one hand, the government desperately wants tourists; on the other hand, the Immigration Dept seems to be making it more and more difficult.

[Krub]

If she only wants a ticket out of Thailand why don't you book a cheap flight out print the itinerary and cancel it later ?

[Mario2008]

It is not immigration that making it more difficult, but "singapore".

Why don't you go to Vientianne, Laos. Reports are people even get a double entry tourist visa for free.

[bangkokboro]

Please correct me if i'm wrong but i was told they scrapped the 3 times and your out when they brought in the 15 days at a land border.

[Lite Beer]

Please correct me if i'm wrong but i was told they scrapped the 3 times and your out when they brought in the 15 days at a land border.

We are talking about Tourist Visas. You are talking about Visa Exempt Entries. Yes there is no limit on back to back entries.

[offset]

I have made many visa runs to Singapore in the past, so many I have lost count, but it's over 10. Being a Canadian, I have never had a problem: no request to show sufficient money, no request for ongoing ticket. However, I have been frustrated on more than one occasion by the embassy being closed, in spite of diligent research on the web... they close for Christian holidays, Muslim holidays, Hindu holidays, Singapore national holidays, Thai national holidays, and if a goat wanders into the compound.

I was not expecting any problems this time, and knew that the 60-day tourist visa would be free. They have now set up a waiting area under a tent, just to the right of the embassy building, with picnic tables and enough space for 30 or more people to fill out their application forms. However, there were exactly 2 people there when I arrived, and 2 more when I left. It seems that people are not rushing to visit Thailand.

I filled out my form, took it to the same Muslim lady at the window; she has worked there for as long as I have been going there. I recognized her, and I am sure she recognized me.

This time she asked to see my onward ticket. I said I had an open e-ticket with Air Canada, but she said that was not good enough. She said, "Because the visa is free, we are now requiring a real ticket with a confirmed date." I offerred to pay the SGD$50 fee, but she said no, they can't do that.

I asked her what I should do, and she said just fly back and you will get 30 days at the airport.

So I did that, and got the 30 days with no hassle, but the abortive trip cost almost 18,000 baht... 2 nights in a hotel, return air fare, meals, taxis, etc.

A bit pricey for 30 days, after which I will have to do something similar. If the "free" visa scheme is still in effect then, I will just fly out of Thailand, and then come back on the next flight; I won't wait around in a hotel, nor visit the embassy.

I have done the bus ride to Cambodia many times, and did one two weeks ago; hard on the bum, and a total waste of a day, but it only costs 2000 baht. But you only get 15 days now, and can only do that 3 times; I won't be doing any more of those.

I live in the Sukhumvit Soi 4 area; the restaurants here are mostly empty every night and the hotels have dropped their rates by 50%. Seems the "free" visa deal is not having much effect, and imposing conditions on it makes it worse. On the one hand, the government desperately wants tourists; on the other hand, the Immigration Dept seems to be making it more and more difficult.

But I thought that you needed a ticket for an onward journey for a 30 day Visa Exempt as well

[tropo]

Doug, I see that you've been a member of this forum since 2005. It wouldn't have taken much research to find out that single entries are readily available in Penang, and double entries in Vientiane.

You could have easily purchased a cheap ticket online from AirAsia or some other low cost carrier.

You must really like Singapore, so perhaps your trip wasn't a total waste.

[TexasRanger]

Personaly what I would never do is edit an old e-ticket or itinerary and re-print it out.

That would never fool anyone.

[thaiman]

I live in the Sukhumvit Soi 4 area; the restaurants here are mostly empty every night and the hotels have dropped their rates by 50%.

Which hotels have dropped rates 50%?

[The Philosopher]

I live in the Sukhumvit Soi 4 area; the restaurants here are mostly empty every night and the hotels have dropped their rates by 50%.

Which hotels have dropped rates 50%?

Yes please name a few

[ovenman]

It is not immigration that making it more difficult, but "singapore".

Correct. As far as that goes, it wasn't all that long ago that the Thai Embassy in Singapore was pretty much a no-starter for folk looking to do back-to-back tourist visas.

[Junglejumbo]

The air-line ticket thing in Singapore has been hotting up for some time. I also am familiar with the lady you talk about and she warned by last July that I must have an onward ticket the next time I come or she won't grant the visa. She said its their rule but she'll ignore it only that one time. I said thanks and next time I'll show you the onward ticket. She provided warning, and no problems later. Personally, i go to Singapore for business visas and Laos for tourists.

[tropo]

The air-line ticket thing in Singapore has been hotting up for some time. I also am familiar with the lady you talk about and she warned by last July that I must have an onward ticket the next time I come or she won't grant the visa. She said its their rule but she'll ignore it only that one time. I said thanks and next time I'll show you the onward ticket. She provided warning, and no problems later. Personally, i go to Singapore for business visas and Laos for tourists.

If they require an onward ticket for a tourist visa, can the date of onward travel be 90 days after entry to allow for one 30-day extension?

[Crushdepth]

This time she asked to see my onward ticket. I said I had an open e-ticket with Air Canada, but she said that was not good enough. She said, "Because the visa is free, we are now requiring a real ticket with a confirmed date." I offerred to pay the SGD$50 fee, but she said no, they can't do that.

We had a visitor denied a visa on arrival at Suvanabumi a couple of weeks ago because of the same 'issue'. He had an onward ticket, but the date wasn't soon enough to satisfy immigration. They told him to change it or go home (welcome to Thailand!). Fortunately, when he went to the Thai Airway counter and explained the situation, they printed off a bullshit ticket for him with an acceptable date to show immigration!

So finally he got his visa, but it took an extra hour or two and caused him considerable stress. It's a shame that the government's efforts to boost tourism are being undermined by immigration.

Edited March 19, 2009 by Crushdepth

[Lite Beer]

Off topic nonsense posts deleted.

[JR Texas]

This time she asked to see my onward ticket. I said I had an open e-ticket with Air Canada, but she said that was not good enough. She said, "Because the visa is free, we are now requiring a real ticket with a confirmed date." I offerred to pay the SGD$50 fee, but she said no, they can't do that.

We had a visitor denied a visa on arrival at Suvanabumi a couple of weeks ago because of the same 'issue'. He had an onward ticket, but the date wasn't soon enough to satisfy immigration. They told him to change it or go home (welcome to Thailand!). Fortunately, when he went to the Thai Airway counter and explained the situation, they printed off a bullshit ticket for him with an acceptable date to show immigration!

So finally he got his visa, but it took an extra hour or two and caused him considerable stress. It's a shame that the government's efforts to boost tourism are being undermined by immigration.

The last thing you said was RIGHT ON TARGET! "........government's efforts to boost tourism are being undermined by immigration."

I would add that immigration is also undermining foreign investment whether they understand the connection or not. They create a system of extreme uncertainty...........the last thing investors look for when they are trying to decide where to place their money.

It is odd that government political parties change, but immigration does not........it is like they are separate and above government and do what they want to do.

I have lived all over and have never experienced a system that is so screwed up and xenophobic..........too bad.......time for a major change........wish the flag waving and clappers that invariably follow such comments would stop.

Time to wake up............time for change.

[ovenman]

It is odd that government political parties change, but immigration does not........it is like they are separate and above government and do what they want to do.

But remember, immigrations is civil service in Thailand, not different from civil service in any other country (i.e. not part of the "political" government). On top of that, Thai immigrations is also an arm of the police and therefore have a cop mentality. It's not their charge to worry about inbound tourism. I'm not trying to justify their position or their thinking but that's what it is...

[Doug]

Re: cheaper hotels

I stayed at the Woraburi in early December and paid 2250 baht a night. Last time I checked, about 3 weeks ago, that same hotel was charging 950 baht for the same room. There are several other hotels near there (can't remember their names) charging 700-900 baht. Near the Naree Massage place.

Re: Buying a flight on a cheap airline

My credit card was maxed due to this trip, couldn't do that. However, related to that, is that I booked a flight from Singapore to Phuket on Silk Air (Singapore Air's discount arm) on Dec 1 when Suvharnabhumi was blockaded. Then I discovered Singapore Air had a flight going to U-Tapao, and I was able to get on it. I tried cancelling the Silk Air flight, and this was extremely difficult. They have no counter at the Singapore airport and no call centre. I went through Immigration into the transit area, and set up my computer with the free WiFi and used Skype to call Silk Air. Busy. I pressed re-dial. Busy. I continued doing that for 30 minutes before I actually got through. Then the girl agreed to cancel the ticket but told me I could not get the money refunded to my credit card for at least 6 weeks. 9 weeks later, it still had not been posted, even though I had sent several queries. So that is the last time I will have anything to do with Silk Air.

Re: Problems with Singapore Embassy

Like I said, I have been there many times and never had any problems whatsoever, other than their being closed unexpectedly. So no reason to go to Penang or Vientiane or any other place. And I like the complete contrast of Singapore with Bangkok... it's refreshing to be back in civilization where most things work as expected... cars stop for pedestrians, you can drink the water, there is a dual sewer system, no overhead wires whatsoever, good sidewalks, etc. But it's too expensive for me to live there on my small pension.

[FairwayJack]

This time she asked to see my onward ticket. I said I had an open e-ticket with Air Canada, but she said that was not good enough. She said, "Because the visa is free, we are now requiring a real ticket with a confirmed date." I offerred to pay the SGD$50 fee, but she said no, they can't do that.

We had a visitor denied a visa on arrival at Suvanabumi a couple of weeks ago because of the same 'issue'. He had an onward ticket, but the date wasn't soon enough to satisfy immigration. They told him to change it or go home (welcome to Thailand!). Fortunately, when he went to the Thai Airway counter and explained the situation, they printed off a bullshit ticket for him with an acceptable date to show immigration!

So finally he got his visa, but it took an extra hour or two and caused him considerable stress. It's a shame that the government's efforts to boost tourism are being undermined by immigration.

The last thing you said was RIGHT ON TARGET! "........government's efforts to boost tourism are being undermined by immigration."

I would add that immigration is also undermining foreign investment whether they understand the connection or not. They create a system of extreme uncertainty...........the last thing investors look for when they are trying to decide where to place their money.

It is odd that government political parties change, but immigration does not........it is like they are separate and above government and do what they want to do.

I have lived all over and have never experienced a system that is so screwed up and xenophobic..........too bad.......time for a major change........wish the flag waving and clappers that invariably follow such comments would stop.

Time to wake up............time for change.

Totally agree...it is the Immigration Dept that is mucking things up. It is a classic power play / turf war. They gutted the Thai Elite program when someone in Immigration arbitrarily cancelled the "family visa". What was their motivation to prevent a Thai Elite member's spouse and children from living together in Thailand as promised in their original sales pitch? It costs the Thai government nothing and presumedly the type of people are desirable to have living here in Thailand.

[ozfarang81]

Silkair is not singapore airlines 'DISCOUNT' arm. They are the regional carrier for singapore airlines. There is nothing DISCOUNT about it!

[NanLaew]

Maybe, just maybe the SIN mission has twigged that the OP is not a real tourist?

Edited March 19, 2009 by NanLaew

[Doug]

Silkair is not singapore airlines 'DISCOUNT' arm. They are the regional carrier for singapore airlines. There is nothing DISCOUNT about it!

You're right, I stand corrected. From Silk Air's web site:

SilkAir’s positioning as a premium, short-to-medium haul regional carrier gives it a unique appeal amongst leisure and business travellers in Asia.

Too bad they offer such poor service on refunds, as I will never use them again.

[JR Texas]

Maybe, just maybe the SIN mission has twigged that the OP is not a real tourist?

In many countries a "real tourist" is someone wanting to enter the country and spend money..........it matters not how many times they come and go during a specific period of time. Why should it matter?

As long as a proper passport w/visa is presented and the individual in question poses no threat, they should be allowed to come and go as they please.

Thailand is living in the dark ages..........people are mobile......one minute they are in NYC at a business meeting, the next they are on a plane to Thailand.......then off to Singapore......maybe back to Thailand..........the stupid rules and regulations are making it difficult (at best) to travel in and out of Thailand.

The new rule changes are doing nothing about crime...........they are doing a lot in terms of giving Thailand a bad reputation as being both expat and tourists unfriendly.

If I were a rich condo owner......or a small-scale investor wanting to rent my real estate to long-stay expats........or an owner of a Western-style restaurant or food chain.......or an owner of a hotel......or hotel employee.........etc., I would be outraged at the visa rule changes that have taken place over the past ten years.

The changes are not only making life difficult for expats and tourists, they are hurting Thailand's economy.

And if you say tourism is only a small part of the overall economy so it does not matter, I will say you know nothing about economics.

[Maestro]

If they require an onward ticket for a tourist visa, can the date of onward travel be 90 days after entry to allow for one 30-day extension?

I’m quite sure it depends on the consulate. “Evidence of travel from Thailand (air ticket paid in full)” is part of the requirements listed on the website of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs but not all consulates enforce it.

--

Maestro

[Lite Beer]

Off topic and negative post deleted.

[NanLaew]

Maybe, just maybe the SIN mission has twigged that the OP is not a real tourist?

In many countries a "real tourist" is someone wanting to enter the country and spend money..........it matters not how many times they come and go during a specific period of time. Why should it matter?

As long as a proper passport w/visa is presented and the individual in question poses no threat, they should be allowed to come and go as they please.

Thailand is living in the dark ages..........people are mobile......one minute they are in NYC at a business meeting, the next they are on a plane to Thailand.......then off to Singapore......maybe back to Thailand..........the stupid rules and regulations are making it difficult (at best) to travel in and out of Thailand.

The new rule changes are doing nothing about crime...........they are doing a lot in terms of giving Thailand a bad reputation as being both expat and tourists unfriendly.

If I were a rich condo owner......or a small-scale investor wanting to rent my real estate to long-stay expats........or an owner of a Western-style restaurant or food chain.......or an owner of a hotel......or hotel employee.........etc., I would be outraged at the visa rule changes that have taken place over the past ten years.

The changes are not only making life difficult for expats and tourists, they are hurting Thailand's economy.

And if you say tourism is only a small part of the overall economy so it does not matter, I will say you know nothing about economics.

Be real. There's very few countries where you can freeload, work illegally and otherwise <deleted> the dog like many expats are already doing in Thailand. Yes, there's no denying that there's several hundred 'resident tourists' who genuinely like the place, have family ties, homes or other investments here. I should know, I was one of them when started coming here in 1978. However, there's a whole new foreign 'tourist' with less noble plans and a darker past in their homeland that have used the same relaxed immigration rules to their advantage in the past 10 years. Those are the ones that Thai Immigration are trying to weed out and the easiest way is to make it harder for everyone.

There's also a lot of people working here on internet-based businesses that think that this new-world mobility and internet commerce means that they don't need a work permit and can fly below any and all fiscal and taxation radars. In case it has escaped people's notice, the days of the true offshore and anonymous worker/shirker are numbered. You want to earn your money on some nebulous internet-based business while living here, then the Thais are entitled to ask that you get an appropriate visa and pay taxes on your earnings. The OP turning up 3 or 4 times a year at the same embassy to get a Tourist visa was an easy catch. Is the OP a bona fide tourist? Do you think that a border guard at (for example) Houston airport would turn a blind eye to a non-American who turns up 3 or 4 times a year at the same airport with a simple tourist visa? There's only so many times one can legitimately claim that they are coming to see Las Vegas and Niagara Falls, or Wat Arun and the Floating Market.

[mahjongguy]

it's refreshing to be back in civilization where most things work as expected... cars stop for pedestrians, you can drink the water, there is a dual sewer system, no overhead wires whatsoever, good sidewalks, etc. But it's too expensive for me to live there on my small pension.

Big pension or small pension, you can't go live in Singapore because they do not offer retirement visas. At least give Thailand credit for that.

[itsgottabedone]

If they require an onward ticket for a tourist visa, can the date of onward travel be 90 days after entry to allow for one 30-day extension?

I’m quite sure it depends on the consulate. “Evidence of travel from Thailand (air ticket paid in full)” is part of the requirements listed on the website of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs but not all consulates enforce it.

--

Maestro

Is somebody able to confirm / have recent experience of this? I want to do just this i.e. obtain a 60+30 day tourist visa but the ticket I intend to purchase is for 90 days duration in Thailand. Does the rule insist the return date be before the 60 day period or is the 30 day extension taken into account ?

[JimmyTheMook]

Be real. There's very few countries where you can freeload, work illegally and otherwise <deleted> the dog like many expats are already doing in Thailand. Yes, there's no denying that there's several hundred 'resident tourists' who genuinely like the place, have family ties, homes or other investments here. I should know, I was one of them when started coming here in 1978. However, there's a whole new foreign 'tourist' with less noble plans and a darker past in their homeland that have used the same relaxed immigration rules to their advantage in the past 10 years. Those are the ones that Thai Immigration are trying to weed out and the easiest way is to make it harder for everyone.

There's also a lot of people working here on internet-based businesses that think that this new-world mobility and internet commerce means that they don't need a work permit and can fly below any and all fiscal and taxation radars. In case it has escaped people's notice, the days of the true offshore and anonymous worker/shirker are numbered. You want to earn your money on some nebulous internet-based business while living here, then the Thais are entitled to ask that you get an appropriate visa and pay taxes on your earnings. The OP turning up 3 or 4 times a year at the same embassy to get a Tourist visa was an easy catch. Is the OP a bona fide tourist? Do you think that a border guard at (for example) Houston airport would turn a blind eye to a non-American who turns up 3 or 4 times a year at the same airport with a simple tourist visa? There's only so many times one can legitimately claim that they are coming to see Las Vegas and Niagara Falls, or Wat Arun and the Floating Market.

Some valid points , but there are those of us here who should be granted some sort of status if we have jumped through all the hoops for so many consecutive years.

[ubonjoe]

Is somebody able to confirm / have recent experience of this? I want to do just this i.e. obtain a 60+30 day tourist visa but the ticket I intend to purchase is for 90 days duration in Thailand. Does the rule insist the return date be before the 60 day period or is the 30 day extension taken into account ?

They only ask for a ticket out of the coountry.

You should be ok with the 90 day ticket.

There are nearby consulates that are more friendly than the Enbassy in Singapore that do not require a ticket out.

Singapore is not reccomended unless you have another reason to go there.