2009 Formula One Season

[rixalex]

That's also why he don't have pussy doll GF or wife but ex-miss Finland finalist but hardly a celeb even in Finland.

How original! A rich sportsman dating a beauty-pageant model.

[wackysleet]

In fairness i think a big part of that is to do with cultural differences. Most Finnish people tend to have that stoic unemotional way about them. I'm sure once you get to know them however, you understand them better, and discover their personalities lurking beneath the outer-exterior!

Mjo can explain better than me i'm sure.

{quote} Mjo

You got it right there. Kimi himself keeps saying in several occasions that "he's been paid for driving his car as fast as he can" and that's all.

So he's not there to entertain people, what drives him is to be the fastest man in the track. Not to be most popular driver or not to be a celeb his face in the mags and being able to hang out with beatiful women in the top clubs all over europe. That's also why he don't have pussy doll GF or wife but ex-miss Finland finalist but hardly a celeb even in Finland. Only known as his wife in Finnish media.

Good example of this was the reports in Finland last weekend. Obviously Kimi needed to relax a bit so he headed to see his mate Matti Nykanen, who is the most successful ski jumper (yes i know) still. Won olympics, world championships and 4 hills tournaments in the 80's often jumping drunk or in hangover. Anyways he's a legend of screwing up and boozing his money away after he quit jumping. So Kimi went to see him to his house with couple of mates (childhood friends) and car full of booze. They heat up the sauna and continued the evening in small town bar singing karaoke. Reportedly he ordered 100 white russians and 50 rum cokes at one go Although he could have took the plane down to london and visited some of the clubs for sure without paying for a single drink. If you look back, most of the finnish rally champions are the same. Maybe Ari Vatanen was the only exception.

And for performance i still stand behind the facts. Kimi has collected most points from last 6 races with a slow car that has not been developed since Hungary. Maybe Alonso didn't buy his seat, maybe Santander bought it for him? Might also be that part of the deal was Kimi's transfer to McLaren as Santander sponsors both teams next season?

your right Mjo, he is paid to drive his car as fast as he can and if this season is the best he can do then perhaps he should retire, 5/6 races doesn't do it for me I'm afraid.

You say that he's not there to entertain, really?, you think the people who go to F1 races with their exorbitant prices go just to put money in drivers pockets along with the millions who watch on TV are not expecting to be entertained by the racing and the interviews with the drivers, which I always thought was an integral part of their contract, on his day he maybe fast but you know the old saying, 1 swallow doesn't make a summer.

[Mosha]

One of these years I am actually going to go to a race. Maybe Sepang 2011.

[MJo]

your right Mjo, he is paid to drive his car as fast as he can and if this season is the best he can do then perhaps he should retire, 5/6 races doesn't do it for me I'm afraid.

You say that he's not there to entertain, really?, you think the people who go to F1 races with their exorbitant prices go just to put money in drivers pockets along with the millions who watch on TV are not expecting to be entertained by the racing and the interviews with the drivers, which I always thought was an integral part of their contract, on his day he maybe fast but you know the old saying, 1 swallow doesn't make a summer.

Well i can't argue that, each to their own. In my books 6 races do prove something especially with slow car.

I go to at least one race a year, sometimes two and yes, I pay to see them driving fast and racing hard. Not interested how the team did a great job once again or how the engine was fantastic or other sponsored drivel. He's doing the mandatory interviews and that's it. Last month in Singapore he was signing autographs at the malls etc. All part of his contract. I didn't go to see it but i went for the race Sure he's not Beckham what comes for his public "image" and that's why Bernie and others are picking on him constantly. Complaining he's not doing enough for the sport (aka Bernies wallet).

Mosha, Sepang is one of the best places to see a race. Tickets are not that expensive compared to other races in the region and hotels etc can be found for good value. I've been with bunch of guys from Thailand for several years now, it's been organized more or less non-profit bases and last year it was between 21k to 24k depending if you stay 2, 3 or 4 nights (twin sharing, bit extra if you want your own room). This includes grandstand ticket along the back straight where you can see around 30% of the track + transport from hotel to track and back. The hotel is really good 5 star one right downtown where all is happening in the evening. On top of that you need to fork out for your flights, bus whatever down to KL and back. Air Asia is usually cheap if you book early (December). If your interested PM me early January and i should have the details by then.

[F1fanatic]

your right Mjo, he is paid to drive his car as fast as he can and if this season is the best he can do then perhaps he should retire, 5/6 races doesn't do it for me I'm afraid.

You say that he's not there to entertain, really?, you think the people who go to F1 races with their exorbitant prices go just to put money in drivers pockets along with the millions who watch on TV are not expecting to be entertained by the racing and the interviews with the drivers, which I always thought was an integral part of their contract, on his day he maybe fast but you know the old saying, 1 swallow doesn't make a summer.

Well i can't argue that, each to their own. In my books 6 races do prove something especially with slow car.

The problem is (as I said in a post a few days ago) that without Massa as a comparison, its difficult to know how slow the Ferrari is now.

[MJo]

The problem is (as I said in a post a few days ago) that without Massa as a comparison, its difficult to know how slow the Ferrari is now.

True, Q2 results with empty tanks give some indication though but then again Ferrari has said their speed in races is better than in quali. Also the fact that they have not developed the car since Hungary it makes it seem that others have gone backwards. Also it might be that some tracks lately fit to Ferrari better than tracks earlier in the season. Difficult to say, but definedly not a race winning car at the moment.

And Fisi should have done better, not sure if it's due to car or his driving but i was expecting more based on good races with Force India.

[F1fanatic]

The problem is (as I said in a post a few days ago) that without Massa as a comparison, its difficult to know how slow the Ferrari is now.

True, Q2 results with empty tanks give some indication though but then again Ferrari has said their speed in races is better than in quali. Also the fact that they have not developed the car since Hungary it makes it seem that others have gone backwards. Also it might be that some tracks lately fit to Ferrari better than tracks earlier in the season. Difficult to say, but definedly not a race winning car at the moment.

And Fisi should have done better, not sure if it's due to car or his driving but i was expecting more based on good races with Force India.

But again, (as I said in a post a few days ago ) I think Fisi's poor performance just shows how difficult the Ferrari is to drive, which is part of the reason why Massa and Kimi performed SOO badly at the beginning of the season but then started to look better - it took them time to get used to the car. If this is the case, you have to feel sorry for Fisi (and Badoer) who haven't had a chance to get used to the car and find/found themselves at the back of the grid (similar to Massa and Kimi at the beginning of the season).

As you say, Fisi was performing well with Force India.

[wackysleet]

The problem is (as I said in a post a few days ago) that without Massa as a comparison, its difficult to know how slow the Ferrari is now.

True, Q2 results with empty tanks give some indication though but then again Ferrari has said their speed in races is better than in quali. Also the fact that they have not developed the car since Hungary it makes it seem that others have gone backwards. Also it might be that some tracks lately fit to Ferrari better than tracks earlier in the season. Difficult to say, but definedly not a race winning car at the moment.

And Fisi should have done better, not sure if it's due to car or his driving but i was expecting more based on good races with Force India.

But again, (as I said in a post a few days ago ) I think Fisi's poor performance just shows how difficult the Ferrari is to drive, which is part of the reason why Massa and Kimi performed SOO badly at the beginning of the season but then started to look better - it took them time to get used to the car. If this is the case, you have to feel sorry for Fisi (and Badoer) who haven't had a chance to get used to the car and find/found themselves at the back of the grid (similar to Massa and Kimi at the beginning of the season).

As you say, Fisi was performing well with Force India.

I think that as Badoer had not been racing competitively and was just given a couple of races and expected to perform and didn't he was really given the shitty end of the stick as Fisi is not doing any better and he has a lot of recent racing behind him. If I was cynical I might think that Shumacher knew the car was not up to much and feined the seriousness of his neck injury rather than put his reputation on the line, but then again he has driven crap cars before and still delivered the results and that was not only for Ferrari but then there is not anyone out there at the moment with his skill and ability.

[F1fanatic]

The problem is (as I said in a post a few days ago) that without Massa as a comparison, its difficult to know how slow the Ferrari is now.

True, Q2 results with empty tanks give some indication though but then again Ferrari has said their speed in races is better than in quali. Also the fact that they have not developed the car since Hungary it makes it seem that others have gone backwards. Also it might be that some tracks lately fit to Ferrari better than tracks earlier in the season. Difficult to say, but definedly not a race winning car at the moment.

And Fisi should have done better, not sure if it's due to car or his driving but i was expecting more based on good races with Force India.

But again, (as I said in a post a few days ago ) I think Fisi's poor performance just shows how difficult the Ferrari is to drive, which is part of the reason why Massa and Kimi performed SOO badly at the beginning of the season but then started to look better - it took them time to get used to the car. If this is the case, you have to feel sorry for Fisi (and Badoer) who haven't had a chance to get used to the car and find/found themselves at the back of the grid (similar to Massa and Kimi at the beginning of the season).

As you say, Fisi was performing well with Force India.

I think that as Badoer had not been racing competitively and was just given a couple of races and expected to perform and didn't he was really given the shitty end of the stick as Fisi is not doing any better and he has a lot of recent racing behind him. If I was cynical I might think that Shumacher knew the car was not up to much and feined the seriousness of his neck injury rather than put his reputation on the line, but then again he has driven crap cars before and still delivered the results and that was not only for Ferrari but then there is not anyone out there at the moment with his skill and ability.

As a HUGE Schumi fan, I'm ashamed to admit that the same thought has crossed my mind! Perhaps more though that the car is incredibly difficult to drive until you have had lots of track time to get used to it. Even so, its still not a championship winning car, even if you are used to it.

[rixalex]

he has driven crap cars before and still delivered the results

Depends what you define "crap" as.

I don't think Schumacher delivered results in crap cars - because he didn't drive them. What he did do was squeeze a bit extra out of every car he drove. But if you squeeze a bit extra out of a crap car it's still crap and you'll still be a back-marker.

Even the mighty Schumi can't polish turds! And yes, that's why his neck suddenly started hurting. After all, had it really been about the neck, surely with the extra recovery time, he could have taken over from Badoer.

[F1fanatic]

he has driven crap cars before and still delivered the results

Depends what you define "crap" as.

I don't think Schumacher delivered results in crap cars - because he didn't drive them. What he did do was squeeze a bit extra out of every car he drove. But if you squeeze a bit extra out of a crap car it's still crap and you'll still be a back-marker.

Even the mighty Schumi can't polish turds! And yes, that's why his neck suddenly started hurting. After all, had it really been about the neck, surely with the extra recovery time, he could have taken over from Badoer.

I consider the 2005 Ferrari to be a (relativaly) crap car! Schumi came 3rd, Barri came 8th! Admittedly, the USA farce of a race helped, but it helped Barri too.

I think as long as Schumi thought he could perform close to Kimi in the current car, he would have happily driven (assuming his neck injury was an excuse). He would have known he didn't even have to match Kimi (just be close) as everyone knew he hadn't raced since 2006.

That's why I prefer to believe the neck injury was a valid reason. If it wasn't the genuine reason, it can't have been because the car is rubbish, but rather because the car needs one hel_l of a lot of track time to get used to it.

[rixalex]

I consider the 2005 Ferrari to be a (relativaly) crap car!

It might have been crap for a Ferrari but still doesn't count in my book as being a crap car.

He would have known he didn't even have to match Kimi (just be close) as everyone knew he hadn't raced since 2006.

That's not the way Schumacher thinks. Being beaten by a team mate, irregardless of how long he's been out of the sport, would be humiliating for him.

[wackysleet]

he has driven crap cars before and still delivered the results

Depends what you define "crap" as.

I don't think Schumacher delivered results in crap cars - because he didn't drive them. What he did do was squeeze a bit extra out of every car he drove. But if you squeeze a bit extra out of a crap car it's still crap and you'll still be a back-marker.

Even the mighty Schumi can't polish turds! And yes, that's why his neck suddenly started hurting. After all, had it really been about the neck, surely with the extra recovery time, he could have taken over from Badoer.

I consider the 2005 Ferrari to be a (relativaly) crap car! Schumi came 3rd, Barri came 8th! Admittedly, the USA farce of a race helped, but it helped Barri too.

I think as long as Schumi thought he could perform close to Kimi in the current car, he would have happily driven (assuming his neck injury was an excuse). He would have known he didn't even have to match Kimi (just be close) as everyone knew he hadn't raced since 2006.

That's why I prefer to believe the neck injury was a valid reason. If it wasn't the genuine reason, it can't have been because the car is rubbish, but rather because the car needs one hel_l of a lot of track time to get used to it.

I really don't believe in this day and age that manufacturers build cars that are that difficult to drive without extensive testing/tracktime unless they were so blidingly fast that when drivers were used to them that they would sweep the board, well they are not that fast this year and most of the leading manufacturers have gone off the boil at some stage, this year it started off as Ferrari and Maclaren but with their money they will be back.

rixalex. My definition of crap, is a car that is not really a front runner produced by a major player and yes Shumacher performed very well in the Benetton and again in the Ferrari and much as it pains me to say this, he was a better driver than either Prost or Senna and at the time of Senna's death Shumacher would have passed him.

The one thing in common that the very best drivers seem to have and thats certainly the 3 I have mentioned is their attention to every detail of the tactics and the setting up of the car, Senna after a race would frequently spend 4 hours explaining everything that had happened to the car whilst racing to his engineers.

[F1fanatic]

I consider the 2005 Ferrari to be a (relativaly) crap car!

It might have been crap for a Ferrari but still doesn't count in my book as being a crap car.

He would have known he didn't even have to match Kimi (just be close) as everyone knew he hadn't raced since 2006.

That's not the way Schumacher thinks. Being beaten by a team mate, irregardless of how long he's been out of the sport, would be humiliating for him.

You could well be right about the way Schumi thinks, but I still think Schumi managed to 'polish' the turd of the 2005 Ferrari.

The car was not even in the same league as the Renault and McLaren, and wasn't even better than the other middle runners - how the hel_l did he manage to finish in 3rd place in the WDC?!

[rixalex]

at the time of Senna's death Shumacher would have passed him.

Over the course of a season, i think you are right, Schumacher could well have prevailed by grinding out a few by playing the percentages, whereas Senna would have gone all out for wins - i'll begrudgingly accept that. But in a head to head battle on the track i think Senna would have the edge.

Sadly we'll never know.

[rixalex]

how the hel_l did he manage to finish in 3rd place in the WDC?!

You've already said why. If you take out the results from the American GP, Schumi suddenly drops to sixth.

[wackysleet]

at the time of Senna's death Shumacher would have passed him.

Over the course of a season, i think you are right, Schumacher could well have prevailed by grinding out a few by playing the percentages, whereas Senna would have gone all out for wins - i'll begrudgingly accept that. But in a head to head battle on the track i think Senna would have the edge.

Sadly we'll never know.

Actually having seen them both racing, at the time of Sennas death he was probably still a better driver than Shumacher but the German was still relatively new to the sport and I think if Senna was still alive or more to the point had competed in the same number of races as Shumacher the superiority of Michael would have shown through, mind you the way the pair of them indulged in the dirty tricks dept they may well have ran each other off the tract on numerous occasions but Shumacher was always in charge of his actions and was very cool whereas Senna was very volatile, witness the punching of another driver{Eddy Irvine?}who committed the cardinal sin of overtaking Senna purely to unlap himself.

[rixalex]

Senna was very volatile, witness the punching of another driver{Eddy Irvine?}

Now that's the sort of off-track entertainment the drivers should be providing! Beats watching someone eating a Cornetto!

[soihok]

Looks like Donnington is for the chop! ...............

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79368

TBWG

Yeap, it looks that way.

How sad.

With the Moto GP races already off to Silverstone from next year , to lose the F1 would be a real nightmare for the place.

We will see.

[Mosha]

Provisional grid and weights.

Vitantonio Liuzzi has a 5 place penalty for a new gearbox change

1. Rubens Barrichello, Brawn GP, 650.5kg

2. Mark Webber, Red Bull, 656

3. Adrian Sutil, Force India, 656.5

4. Jarno Trulli, Toyota, 658.5

5. Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari, 651.5

6. Sebastien Buemi, Toro Rosso, 659

7. Nico Rosberg, Williams, 657

8. Robert Kubica, BMW Sauber, 656

9. Kazuki Nakajima, Williams, 664

10. Fernando Alonso, Renault, 652

11. Kamui Kobayashi, Toyota, 671.6

12. Jaime Alguersuari, Toro Rosso, 671.5

13. Romain Grosjean, Renault, 677.2

14. Jenson Button, Brawn GP, 672

15. Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, 683.5

16. Heikki Kovalainen, McLaren, 656.5

17. Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, 661

18. Nick Heidfeld, BMW Sauber, 650.5

19. Giancarlo Fisichella, Ferrari, 683.5

20. Vitantonio Liuzzi, Force India, 680

Those heavy weights might backfire, as a wet race is probable and a good chance of a yellow flag or 3.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Mosha

[ignis]

11. Kamui Kobayashi, Toyota, 671.6

12. Jaime Alguersuari, Toro Rosso, 671.5

13. Romain Grosjean, Renault, 677.2

14. Jenson Button, Brawn GP, 672

15. Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, 683.5

16. Heikki Kovalainen, McLaren, 656.5

17. Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, 661

If it rains? Romain Grosjean had lots of spins in the last 2 days, + 2 newish drivers in front of that, so Button and Vettel both trying to get by these 3 cars and at the same time trying to keep the 2 McLaren's on lighter fuel + Kers behind them

Looks like an interesting Race...... NO NOT forget Brazil changed to winter time this weekend so will be on 1 hour earlier here.

[MJo]

Both McLarens are in dry weather set-up and if the race starts dry they come flying past the others.

Present forecast for Sao Paulo is Considerable cloudiness with occasional rain showers. Chance of rain 50%.

So it seems like lottery race again if the conditions change during the race anything can happen.

[wackysleet]

Both McLarens are in dry weather set-up and if the race starts dry they come flying past the others.

Present forecast for Sao Paulo is Considerable cloudiness with occasional rain showers. Chance of rain 50%.

So it seems like lottery race again if the conditions change during the race anything can happen.

Well considering the load their carrying I would have expected them to be a bit higher up the field but I'm sure the teams have looked at the weather forcast and think they have it right, we will see.

[TBWG]

Provisional grid and weights.

Vitantonio Liuzzi has a 5 place penalty for a new gearbox change

1. Rubens Barrichello, Brawn GP, 650.5kg

2. Mark Webber, Red Bull, 656

3. Adrian Sutil, Force India, 656.5

4. Jarno Trulli, Toyota, 658.5

5. Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari, 651.5

6. Sebastien Buemi, Toro Rosso, 659

7. Nico Rosberg, Williams, 657

8. Robert Kubica, BMW Sauber, 656

9. Kazuki Nakajima, Williams, 664

10. Fernando Alonso, Renault, 652

11. Kamui Kobayashi, Toyota, 671.6

12. Jaime Alguersuari, Toro Rosso, 671.5

13. Romain Grosjean, Renault, 677.2

14. Jenson Button, Brawn GP, 672

15. Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, 683.5

16. Heikki Kovalainen, McLaren, 656.5

17. Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, 661

18. Nick Heidfeld, BMW Sauber, 650.5

19. Giancarlo Fisichella, Ferrari, 683.5

20. Vitantonio Liuzzi, Force India, 680

Those heavy weights might backfire, as a wet race is probable and a good chance of a yellow flag or 3.

Agreed ~~~~ anyone know latest weather forecast?

TBWG

[Mosha]

http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/83780.html

Says 40-50% chance of rain, Another link says at present it's foggy in Sao Paulo.

[MJo]

Seems it will start as dry race !

Now we see who got lucky and has dry weather set-up from yesterday. McLaren claims they have it and i suspect Rosberg and Kimi to be in full rain set-up as they both said after quali that they were losing positions after the rain stopped and they went for intermediate tires.

In any case there is fast and also light cars at the back so anticipating interesting race...

[MJo]

What a race, plenty of drama.

Good to see Jenson back, not a moment too soon but has won it. And congrats for the Brawn boys, amazing performance from a team that was not about to race at all few months back.

[Donnyboy]

great first half of the race, heaps of action!!

pity Reubens couldnt do better after doing well before his first stop

Webber drove well, but hats off for Button, great overtaking moves @ the start

new japanese driver did well for Toyota, although he was dangerous with his weaving to protect his position,

not much to play for in the last round now is there?

where was the rain?

[b19bry]

Class drive from Jenson to win the championship but heartbroken for Rubens to lose with puncture.

[MJo]

Rubens lost only podium not the race win with the puncture. However i really do hope he get's at least one more decent chance to win in his home GP. Unbelievable how bad luck he has had in Brazil. Out of fuel in last lap and all sorts of problems over the years. With the amount of GP's under his belt he deserves to experience the win in his home turf.