Composting, compost teas and humanure

[WormFarmer]

Wormfarmer,

We must catch up again and compare notes. Today I declared war on one neighbours chickens, just two that seem to have developed a taste for my worms. They will lose this battle.

IA.

Hi IA - You could kill two birds with one stone (pun intended) by stopping them taking the worms and providing a roast dinner

WF

[IsaanAussie]

Wormfarmer,

We must catch up again and compare notes. Today I declared war on one neighbours chickens, just two that seem to have developed a taste for my worms. They will lose this battle.

IA.

Hi IA - You could kill two birds with one stone (pun intended) by stopping them taking the worms and providing a roast dinner

WF

Well I pointed out just how expensive compost worms are to buy to the owner of the birds. Suggested we should weigh all the birds now, then again after they eat my worms and I kill them. I will pay for the original bird weight and he can pay for the worms at replavement cost. He must have decided to keep them at home, didnt see one all day.

[WormFarmer]

Wormfarmer,

We must catch up again and compare notes. Today I declared war on one neighbours chickens, just two that seem to have developed a taste for my worms. They will lose this battle.

IA.

Hi IA - You could kill two birds with one stone (pun intended) by stopping them taking the worms and providing a roast dinner

WF

Well I pointed out just how expensive compost worms are to buy to the owner of the birds. Suggested we should weigh all the birds now, then again after they eat my worms and I kill them. I will pay for the original bird weight and he can pay for the worms at replavement cost. He must have decided to keep them at home, didnt see one all day.

Oh well - there goes dinner!

[aquaponeer]

Greetings,

does anyone know where to find liquid seaweed, / seaweed extract . There used to be a product in Australia called Seasol for gardening/ foliar use. i am unable to find this, or similar liquid seaweed anywhere.

Thanks in advanced.

[DixiePig]

jandtaa-- you know your rotting stuff, that's for sure.

Here is how I do compost tea-- I use a 100 liter plastic garbage bin, 5 kilos of finished compost tied off in cheesecloth and a small aquarium air pump. after one day I add sugar, maybe 1/3 kilo (rough measure) and a large handful of fresh cut rice grass or chpped water hyacinth (water hyacith is preferable if you can get it.) After two more days braodly apply.

[animatic]

We are doing a 1st compost now,

in a pit 1.5 m deep x 2.5m wide x 3.5m long

Using overgrown green yard clippings / grass / vines,

that naturally arrives if unattended, ie a local natural guild.

Some palm leaves and banana leaves that have fallen,

and both elephant and water buffalo manure that is available close to home.

Kitchen cuttings, coffee grounds, egg shells etc round out the mix.

Presently watered by hand, covered with a light tarp. A heavier black

rubberized one will replace it next week.

The contents are not chopped much, more broken up.

I was wondering about where to find a very low priced chopper/grinder

to just chuck the stuff through when layering a compost?

We have terraced the top half of a rai, to stop water erosion and preserve newly

placed dark earth, mixed with worm casing, and assorted vegetables and legumes,

but needing to make a continuous cycle ongoing.

While waiting for the compost to do it's thing,

I was thinking can I do a elephant manure tea in a trash can with aerator,

some earth and worm castings and make it worth while to use?

Also not finding any info on southern Thailand plant guild groupings.

The family is mountain farmers, so they just do it in the old ways,

but I am trying to do this more permaculture / scientifically, better yields for the labor.

Any sources for sweet pea seeds?

Thanks.

A

[IsaanAussie]

We are doing a 1st compost now,

in a pit 1.5 m deep x 2.5m wide x 3.5m long

Using overgrown green yard clippings / grass / vines,

that naturally arrives if unattended, ie a local natural guild.

Some palm leaves and banana leaves that have fallen,

and both elephant and water buffalo manure that is available close to home.

Kitchen cuttings, coffee grounds, egg shells etc round out the mix.

Presently watered by hand, covered with a light tarp. A heavier black

rubberized one will replace it next week.

The contents are not chopped much, more broken up.

I was wondering about where to find a very low priced chopper/grinder

to just chuck the stuff through when layering a compost?

We have terraced the top half of a rai, to stop water erosion and preserve newly

placed dark earth, mixed with worm casing, and assorted vegetables and legumes,

but needing to make a continuous cycle ongoing.

While waiting for the compost to do it's thing,

I was thinking can I do a elephant manure tea in a trash can with aerator,

some earth and worm castings and make it worth while to use?

Also not finding any info on southern Thailand plant guild groupings.

The family is mountain farmers, so they just do it in the old ways,

but I am trying to do this more permaculture / scientifically, better yields for the labor.

Any sources for sweet pea seeds?

Thanks.

A

Take a bag of left over cooked wet rice and place in an open upside down bag on the ground under a tree. Left it for a week and then go look what is under the rice. You should have a natural growth of bacteria and fungii. Put that on your compost materials and cover with straw even grass clippings sparely to keep it moist. Coffee grounds would be ideal, but that is a lot of coffee. It should spread through you compost accelerating it markedly.

Shredder/grinders are a get what you pay for deal. The cheap ones will either handle wet or dry material but seldom both. I have just ordered a 22HP unit at under $2,000 but have for years just used a combination of a cheap petrol engined brush cutter and a bush knife. The smaller the particle size the better for materials that break down quickly. For those that don't, so what, let them provide some air gaps.

[loong]

I have often thought that it would be a good idea to have some sort of grinder or whatever that could be used for composting materials. Ideal would be an auger type, ie something like an old fashioned meat mincer or what they sometimes use to make crushed ice. Obviously would need to be on a larger scale though. I woulddn't think that they would be too expensive to produce, but I guess that there is not the demand.

When you mention sweet pea seeds, are you talking about ornamental plants? If so, I haven't seen any sweet pea seeds available in Thailand.

If you mean sugar/snow pea for eating, they are called Tua lahn Dtao ถั่วลันเตา and are available in most seed outlets. If these are what you want and you still have difficulty finding them. PM me with your address and I'll send you a packet or 2. Can't help you if you need large quantities though.

[IsaanAussie]

I have often thought that it would be a good idea to have some sort of grinder or whatever that could be used for composting materials. Ideal would be an auger type, ie something like an old fashioned meat mincer or what they sometimes use to make crushed ice. Obviously would need to be on a larger scale though. I woulddn't think that they would be too expensive to produce, but I guess that there is not the demand.

You can buy oversize meat mincers here for making granules (pellets) but I dont see they could be used as a mulcher. Too much wear and way too power needed. The design is wrong for that. The staged compression of the auger would just make the materials jam up as solids before they got to the cutter.

[loong]

I'm not sure if it is related or not, but since adding EM to my compost heap, I have seen an explosion of black soldier fly larvae. My heap is writhing with them. I'm amazed at just how quickly they chomp through kitchen waste.

I'm not sure if this is a good thing or not. If I kept chickens then I would be happy enough and could then harvest them for feed.

I know that BSF larvae excrete goodness, but when they move off from the pile, they are also removing a certain amount.

If I forget to cover the heap the locals' chickens are in there and totally rip it apart to get at the larvae.

Can anyone with more knowledge than I have tell me if the benefits from the larvaes' excretia outweigh the nutrient loss when they move off to pupate?

[IsaanAussie]

What you do with them is you put them all in a box and send them to me. The larvae are great protein source and the leavings are good to feed to compost worms. Exactly what I need but unfortunately no BSF around here.

[loong]

I'd be happy to send you some IA.

Would they need oxygen while being transported?

Or would you prefer that I try to trap them at pupae stage?

[IsaanAussie]

I'd be happy to send you some IA.

Would they need oxygen while being transported?

Or would you prefer that I try to trap them at pupae stage?

I believe they burrow into the soil to pupate? Perhaps if you grab some leaving the compost heap and put them into a bucket of dirt and wait until they at the pupae stage might be easier.

I had a friend on Samui try to send some to me by post twice, but was knocked back. Perhaps on a bus to Sisaket? If you can do that then I'll get cheeky and ask for a range of stages. Some little ones in a bag of compost, and some pupae. As many as you can. I wouldnt worry about the air they are pretty hardy.

This is great... at last!

[loong]

I had a friend on Samui try to send some to me by post twice, but was knocked back.

What do you mean? Would the post office not allow him to send? How would they know what was in the package?

Do you know if there is a direct bus from Khon Kaen to Sisaket? About 300 Km I would guess. If so, that may be the way to go

[IsaanAussie]

I had a friend on Samui try to send some to me by post twice, but was knocked back.

What do you mean? Would the post office not allow him to send? How would they know what was in the package?

Do you know if there is a direct bus from Khon Kaen to Sisaket? About 300 Km I would guess. If so, that may be the way to go

Apparently James' wife took the package to the post office and they asked what was in it and she told them it contained larvae. They refused to accept it in the post. A week later he tried and when asked told them it was a tee shirt, they wanted to look and that ended that.

I am sure there is a bus running between the two. I have sent worms, even compost by bus no problems.

[loong]

I put some corrugated cardboard above the heap yesterday in the hope that maybe a BSF would lay some eggs as this may be the easiest way to send. No luck, maybe too overcast and not hot enough, but will persevere.

I'm surprised that i have so many in the heap. I don't very often see adult BSF, just occasionally sitting on an eggplant leaf. In flight they look very similar to a mud dauber/potter wasp.

When I uncovered the heap yesterday, it was steaming. The grubs were happily feeding and apparently not bothered by the heat.

[IsaanAussie]

Sounds promising. If all else fails a bag full of compost and grubs I suppose?

Changing the subject slightly, I am going to try something new. With my probiotic I get over the top temperature in less than two weeks in the thermophillic process. I am going to mix that stage of compost with rice bran, duckweed and probiotic (EMA style)and bag ferment it. After that I will mix in lime,gysum, dolomite and rockphosphate then pelletise it as fertiliser.

[SundayAfternoon]

I made my first compost tea. Used the dry cow manure from he market, in a bucket with a bubbler from aquarium. Nothing else addedd. Within a few hours of brewing the whole thing had a foam on top.

(I scraped it off thinking that it was going to overflow, not realising that this 'foam' was a good sign, and all was well!)

I bubbled for 24hrs, strained, then used.

My first attempt. Success.

One question though, is the leftover manure still good for applying to the garden, or for putting into the worm bin, or has all of the goodness been brewed out of it?

[loong]

I haven't forgotten you IA.

The problem is that I don't really have the numbers of BSF larvae in the compost at the moment.

I have had to keep a heavy cover on the heap because anything less just gets ripped apart by the local chickens eager to get at the grubs. Obviously the heavy cover probably makes it difficult for new larvae to find their way into the heap.

The wierd thing is that the BSF only seem interested in this one heap. This heap contains mostly kitchen waste, including fish, fruit cores and peels, bones, prawn shells etc. I keep a bucket at the house with some diluted EM and ALL the kitchen waste (including a lot of uneaten rice) goes in there. I keep it topped up with water just enough so everything is submerged. Bubbles away nicely and no offensive smells, just that strong sour odor. When it's full I take off the compost cover and add to the heap with a load of swept up leaves.

The BSF are only attracted to this heap, my other heaps that consist of only garden waste, cow manure and rice husks hold no interest for the BSF.

Maybe you could try this on a small scale somewhere, you actually may find that you do have BSF in your area after all, just that they don't find your compost attractive enough.

I've had absolutely no joy getting the BSF to lay eggs in corrugated cardboard - sorry, but will persevere.

Had another surprise this morning when I went to empty my house bucket on the heap. Took the cover off and saw that there were loads of small white maggots. I thought this unusual as BSF larvae are supposed to excrete something that keeps normal flies away.

I tipped my bucket of waste on top and was amazed to see these maggots start to jump. Considering their size, they could jump really high, maybe a foot. I've never seen anything like this before and found it fascinating.

A wonder of nature that is new to me.

[drtreelove]

Excellent new blog article on composting from Graeme Sait, Australian agronomist and educator. 

https://blog.nutri-tech.com.au/composting-choices-aerobic-vs-anaerobic 

The EM from Organic Totto that is now widely available in Thailand, at Home Pro, is based on the formula from Dr Higa that is mentioned in this article. This can be used in place of BAM and is one of the best Thai brands of EM in my opinion.  I buy a liter of EM and a liter of molasses (also from HomePro) and brew it for a week in a 20 liter jug.  (Note: Molasses can be found in the garden section at Home Pro, but the Organic Totto EM is in the household cleaners and pesticide section)