Green manures, cover crops and nitrogen fixing trees

[Smithson]

Ford, glad to hear you were able to get the Sunn Hemp seeds. After spending a lot of time calling variuos govt depts, we were finally told that we would have seeds around the end of the month - that was in March. Since then we've been given variuos excuses and always told they would call in a few weeks when the seeds come in. I've now given up.

What I've been told by lots of Thais is don't bother with the seed (and other organic) schemes, as most stuff goes to people in the know rather than poor farmers. Considering innoculants aren't available, you really have to question how seriuos the govt is.

[IsaanAussie]

Smithson,

Governments serious? Of course they are, there are a few in the ranks of officials that seem to jump highest when the prod comes from the top however. Now with the wet season started their eyes will be on rain fed rice no doubt.

IA

[cm das]

Ford, glad to hear you were able to get the Sunn Hemp seeds. After spending a lot of time calling variuos govt depts, we were finally told that we would have seeds around the end of the month - that was in March. Since then we've been given variuos excuses and always told they would call in a few weeks when the seeds come in. I've now given up.

What I've been told by lots of Thais is don't bother with the seed (and other organic) schemes, as most stuff goes to people in the know rather than poor farmers. Considering innoculants aren't available, you really have to question how seriuos the govt is.

Last year the Land Development Office in Chiang Mai gave us free black beans and threw in innoculants as well. They wanted to give me more innoculants but I wasn't sure what type I needed. The regular people working in the office all seemed knowledgeable & helpful. I can't speak to their big bosses.

[wjthornton]

I planted some nitrogen fixing trees at my ex-farm in Plok, that did wonders for the local micro-climate, but I never did find out the genus and species.

A big nursery in Uttaradit (I hope it is still there, it was a great nursery) recommended it. It grows very tall very fast--it grew 10 meters in two years from spindly little plants, faster even than Nok Yung and taller but with similar leaves and purple flowers. I makes a perfect upper story, everything grew beautifully under the filtered shade and tiny leaf mulch it provided. If anybody knows the name of a tree like that, it might save me a trip to Plok and/or Uttaradit.

[cooked]

I know of one factory just outside Korat City has been hiring Cambodians (and Laotians as well I think) since mid November 2012. These employees are given a place to stay in a newly build block of flats just opposite the factory. 4 per room, 280 rooms in total (go do the math). Rent, electricity, etc. will be deducted by the employer and paid directly to the landlord.

eh?

[wigantojapan]

Ford, glad to hear you were able to get the Sunn Hemp seeds. After spending a lot of time calling variuos govt depts, we were finally told that we would have seeds around the end of the month - that was in March. Since then we've been given variuos excuses and always told they would call in a few weeks when the seeds come in. I've now given up.

What I've been told by lots of Thais is don't bother with the seed (and other organic) schemes, as most stuff goes to people in the know rather than poor farmers. Considering innoculants aren't available, you really have to question how seriuos the govt is.

Last year the Land Development Office in Chiang Mai gave us free black beans and threw in innoculants as well. They wanted to give me more innoculants but I wasn't sure what type I needed. The regular people working in the office all seemed knowledgeable & helpful. I can't speak to their big bosses.

Hi Do you have an address for the land developement office in English and Thai if possible,,Thanks

[loong]

Ford, glad to hear you were able to get the Sunn Hemp seeds. After spending a lot of time calling variuos govt depts, we were finally told that we would have seeds around the end of the month - that was in March. Since then we've been given variuos excuses and always told they would call in a few weeks when the seeds come in. I've now given up.

What I've been told by lots of Thais is don't bother with the seed (and other organic) schemes, as most stuff goes to people in the know rather than poor farmers. Considering innoculants aren't available, you really have to question how seriuos the govt is.

Last year the Land Development Office in Chiang Mai gave us free black beans and threw in innoculants as well. They wanted to give me more innoculants but I wasn't sure what type I needed. The regular people working in the office all seemed knowledgeable & helpful. I can't speak to their big bosses.

Hi Do you have an address for the land developement office in English and Thai if possible,,Thanks

Addresses can be found here

In English

http://www.ldd.go.th/EFiles_html/introduction/Ec04021.htm

In Thai

http://www.ldd.go.th/aboutldd/intro08.html

[wolfmanjack]

Ford, glad to hear you were able to get the Sunn Hemp seeds. After spending a lot of time calling variuos govt depts, we were finally told that we would have seeds around the end of the month - that was in March. Since then we've been given variuos excuses and always told they would call in a few weeks when the seeds come in. I've now given up.

What I've been told by lots of Thais is don't bother with the seed (and other organic) schemes, as most stuff goes to people in the know rather than poor farmers. Considering innoculants aren't available, you really have to question how seriuos the govt is.

Last year the Land Development Office in Chiang Mai gave us free black beans and threw in innoculants as well. They wanted to give me more innoculants but I wasn't sure what type I needed. The regular people working in the office all seemed knowledgeable & helpful. I can't speak to their big bosses.

Hi Do you have an address for the land developement office in English and Thai if possible,,Thanks

Addresses can be found here

In English

Comodo says these two sites are unsafe and will not allow me to access them. Can someone post the address here please?

[loong]

Here you are...

[wolfmanjack]

Thank you Loong.

I just got back from there and got 25 kg of jack bean. They did not have the sun hemp so I went ahead and took the jack bean even though I did not know if it would serve my purpose or not.

After doing some research I found out that the bean is slightly toxic which would not be so great for my chickens so I am going to still try and get the sun hemp by buying it.

[mo99]

Thank you Loong.

I just got back from there and got 25 kg of jack bean. They did not have the sun hemp so I went ahead and took the jack bean even though I did not know if it would serve my purpose or not.

After doing some research I found out that the bean is slightly toxic which would not be so great for my chickens so I am going to still try and get the sun hemp by buying it.

I have found Lablab to grow excellent here in CM, and my rabbits love to eat the leaves (which it puts out loads of in the summer). I am not sure why the Thai government does not promote Lablab. My guess is they will catch on eventully.

[wolfmanjack]

Thank you Loong.

I just got back from there and got 25 kg of jack bean. They did not have the sun hemp so I went ahead and took the jack bean even though I did not know if it would serve my purpose or not.

After doing some research I found out that the bean is slightly toxic which would not be so great for my chickens so I am going to still try and get the sun hemp by buying it.

I have found Lablab to grow excellent here in CM, and my rabbits love to eat the leaves (which it puts out loads of in the summer). I am not sure why the Thai government does not promote Lablab. My guess is they will catch on eventully.

Thanks for the info. Any idea where to get the seed?

[IsaanAussie]

Thank you Loong.

I just got back from there and got 25 kg of jack bean. They did not have the sun hemp so I went ahead and took the jack bean even though I did not know if it would serve my purpose or not.

After doing some research I found out that the bean is slightly toxic which would not be so great for my chickens so I am going to still try and get the sun hemp by buying it.

I have found Lablab to grow excellent here in CM, and my rabbits love to eat the leaves (which it puts out loads of in the summer). I am not sure why the Thai government does not promote Lablab. My guess is they will catch on eventully.

Thanks for the info. Any idea where to get the seed?

Dont be too quick with giving up on the beans, most of the toxic issues can be resolved by sundrying or cooking or even fermenting.

[loong]

Aren't all beans slightly toxic?

Kidney beans have the highest toxicity, I believe. Can't remember red or black.

[IsaanAussie]

Aren't all beans slightly toxic?

Kidney beans have the highest toxicity, I believe. Can't remember red or black.

Soybeans, cassava, sweet potatoes,on and on. Many vegetables have some components that are either toxic or provide some negative impact on the digestion. They occur in minute amounts and can be dealt with if required. Mostly dependant on the total dietary proportion.

In terms of green manure crops the important thing is to realise that while they fix atmospheric nitrogen while growing, many expend much more when they fruit or flower. In most cases you can have the soil nitrogen or the crop, but not the cake and eat it too.

[kickstart]

Has any one found Lab-Lab or Cow Pea in the Lopburi area,?just printed the English-Thai for them ,TW just had a lookat them, never herd of them, wil try the LDD office,in Lopburi.

Yours with thanks

K

[islandguy]

I had Brazilian Peanut (Thua Brazil) recommended to me by a local landscaper. Any feedback on that one? I want to control weed growth, fix nitrogen, and let the land transition towards organic use for gardens and (mostly) trees. Thanks for this thread and any comments.

[IsaanAussie]

Nitrogen fixing. Just getting involved with cyanobacteria. This is being studied now to support an old practice of using it in submerged rice fields to fix atmosphere nitrogen and as a dried product in soil fertiliser. It is blue-green algae, and (as long as it is not toxic) is a great "free" alternative to Urea.

I would be interested in hearing if anyone has tried using this material here.

[Psychic]

Hello,

Could someone tell me the Thai words for sun hemp please.

[loong]

Hello,

Could someone tell me the Thai words for sun hemp please.

Bpaw tueang

ปอเทือง

Copy the Thai spelling quickly. A moderator will remove it because only English language is allowed here

Edited February 26, 2014 by loong

[Psychic]

Perfect, thanks, long.

Seems a bit silly to remove helpful Thai words. But not my forum, not my rules I guess.

Much obliged as I'm hoping to find some seed near Hua Hin and nobody had a clue what I was talking about.

[WtFugarwe]

Sunn Hemp or Pigeon Pea? Why?

[Allgeier]

Sorry for this post

Edited August 19, 2015 by Allgeier

[Allgeier]

Next try:

So. I tryed Boh Thyang, the same "loong" postet befor.

When there have a wet soil there grow fast.

and some withe bean

ถั่วพร้า

The white one, i had the idea to get some organic pigfeed. But this looks like to mutch work to collect them.

Both beans i got from here:

https://th-th.facebook.com/pages/%E0%B8%82%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A2-%E0%B8%9B%E0%B8%AD%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%97%E0%B8%B7%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%87-%E0%B8%96%E0%B8%B1%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%9E%E0%B8%A3%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%B2-%E0%B9%82%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%9F%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%99-momofarm/412217618822770

Came by Post

Allgeier

[farmerjo]

How many months to reach that stage in height

And how many kilos of each seed and how did you seed it.

Sorry for so many questions.

Good looking stand.Well done.

[drtreelove]

Just came across a Google books title: Green Manure in Rice Farming. It talks about stem nodulating vs root nodulating legumes for flooded paddy. Interesting research papers from the 1980s.

https://books.google.com/books?id=nYm9aXTskYsC&pg=PA95&lpg=PA95&dq=agricultural+fertilizers+chiang+mai+thailand&source=bl&ots=LBd2CSf1P6&sig=KTBn_1OtAyFWu6zZDTNkSIIPoFk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjIzemt95LLAhVO0WMKHecjAysQ6AEIMzAF#v=onepage&q=agricultural%20fertilizers%20chiang%20mai%20thailand&f=false

ForeverFord started this discussion. Where are you? We haven't had a good tractor story lately.

[chenposeb]

It was asked absolutely ages ago, but in response to the cowpea question, I got a load of black-eye beans (same thing) from MM MegaMarket, I'm sure you can get them from anywhere.

Did my usual beans routine (soak them for about 6 hours in pond water) and planted them. I now have a load of dried beans from that crop and I'm going for my next generation. Really small scale experiment so not enough to hand out but it is possible.

I also had good results from mung beans and black beans bought from a supermarket. I put them in straight after the rice came in. I had a crop already from them before the dry season, going to leave them in for as long as possible as they are still producing beans. The ground where I planted them is hopefully a better state than the bits left bare for the sun to fry, but we will see later I guess.

Sorry, only tractor story I can think of was when I was a young kid picking figs on my Uncles Farm in Italy and somehow managed to cause it to move leaving me hanging off the tree.

Edited March 9, 2016 by chenposeb

[Foreverford]

Why does everybody want to hear stories of me nearly becoming human green manure on my tractor? Well anyway this year when planting my Pah tueng (two ehng) ( sun hemp) I was 6 weeks into a nasty case of shingles (get your vaccines you 60 year olds, I had just gone to set an appointment to get mine and got the cursed stuff a few days later) that attacks the face (lucky me as only 4% get in on their face) and blindness can be the result of it there. Still it is a couple daze before New years eve and the mad exodus of any and all to Issan so I need to make hay and get the seed in after putting the rice stubble under. I had the wife really soak the stubble in EM that we brew and olike magic in almost one clean pass the tons of organic residue and newly sprouting rice and weeds are under ground and another pass to really tidy it up and bro0adcast the seed into the dozen rai of the organic show farm and off to buy a few thousand catfish including these fast growing big headed Russian type to put in the ponds and.... you know how ai can make a short story long or is it a long story short but still it was close to 40 some hours non-stop running to make it happen and get out of Dodge before the masses descend on Issan and as I am discing hell bent for leather witht he Ford running ful out in sixth gear crick crack and kaboom and such and the next thing I know the entire roof and sshade structure that bro-in-law had tack welded together and was going to finish (two years ago and was paid for it all of course) comes crashing down on me and fortunately it gets tangled up everywhere but betwen my eyes and a piece of rough cut 2'' angle iron raked in front of my throat by a few inches of making a lot of bone and blood meal for future crops. yick yack and no caddy lee lac I got the twisted wreckage to higher ground and untangled it and me and was back at it a few minutes later and wh cares that my knee was trapped between the fender and a piece o0f the three inch square stock as no time for injuries or at least no time to feel the pain until it was over. i sure felt it today but a alittle over a week ago I turn all the pah teung under with some well over head and then decided to plant a crop of Hom mali 105 red rice seed that i got from surin that was chem free grown. Both our lakes that we put in are very full of water so decided to plant a couple three rai of the red so it will flower and seed when the white of us and everybody else is still in the growing stage so it can be used for seed stock as it is very difficult to find good red seed stock that isn't crossed with the white so it is all up and growing well and now time to start flooding it as we have been irrigating with sprinklers. The Ford was a demon on Fire as i disced the rice under a full moon and howling the entire time and we have a contest between us to see who wil die first and I'll never bet on my Ford Forever. peace and love

PS After planting the rice made a good run back to Bangkok to catch Carlos Santana and Carabao put it on with Carlos' new wife upstaging them all with an unbelieveable display of drums that had to be the best I have ever seen and words can't describe it.

So if my memory serves me well this should be just about right for now. What says you Issan Aussie and Doc Treelove (never heard a peep from Bee and phone was a no go)

and this is from the last time Carlos and the Carabao boys got together. I hope they come back and play again soon

at 4:44 to 6:66 is the best guitar solos you can want to ever hear. they just rocked it. Edited March 10, 2016 by Foreverford

[Foreverford]

Time for bed but just saw Doc treelove's info and they talk of Sesbania which is called "Sanoh Africa" and it is extremely troublesome to use as a green manure because when rice fields are flooded it won't die and competes extremely well witht he rice crop and it took us nearly five years to work it out of our rice after only one planting. don't plant it EVER in rice areas is my experience and I think others will say the same. it would be great in orchards as you get many tons of return for plantings but not for rice. Pah tueng, sunn hemp is so easy and so beneficial it is a no brainer. Don I'll read your stuff when i get some time. Thanks and hope you are getting lots of rain but know you are plenty busy

so it seems like this is right now so I'll nail a retread onto my shoes and pray for better weather

[cooked]

Why does everybody want to hear stories of me nearly becoming human green manure on my tractor? Well anyway this year when planting my Pah tueng (two ehng) ( sun hemp) I was 6 weeks into a nasty case of shingles (get your vaccines you 60 year olds, I had just gone to set an appointment to get mine and got the cursed stuff a few days later) that attacks the face (lucky me as only 4% get in on their face) and blindness can be the result of it there. Still it is a couple daze before New years eve and the mad exodus of any and all to Issan so I need to make hay and get the seed in after putting the rice stubble under. I had the wife really soak the stubble in EM that we brew and olike magic in almost one clean pass the tons of organic residue and newly sprouting rice and weeds are under ground and another pass to really tidy it up and bro0adcast the seed into the dozen rai of the organic show farm and off to buy a few thousand catfish including these fast growing big headed Russian type to put in the ponds and.... you know how ai can make a short story long or is it a long story short but still it was close to 40 some hours non-stop running to make it happen and get out of Dodge before the masses descend on Issan and as I am discing hell bent for leather witht he Ford running ful out in sixth gear crick crack and kaboom and such and the next thing I know the entire roof and sshade structure that bro-in-law had tack welded together and was going to finish (two years ago and was paid for it all of course) comes crashing down on me and fortunately it gets tangled up everywhere but betwen my eyes and a piece of rough cut 2'' angle iron raked in front of my throat by a few inches of making a lot of bone and blood meal for future crops. yick yack and no caddy lee lac I got the twisted wreckage to higher ground and untangled it and me and was back at it a few minutes later and wh cares that my knee was trapped between the fender and a piece o0f the three inch square stock as no time for injuries or at least no time to feel the pain until it was over. i sure felt it today but a alittle over a week ago I turn all the pah teung under with some well over head and then decided to plant a crop of Hom mali 105 red rice seed that i got from surin that was chem free grown. Both our lakes that we put in are very full of water so decided to plant a couple three rai of the red so it will flower and seed when the white of us and everybody else is still in the growing stage so it can be used for seed stock as it is very difficult to find good red seed stock that isn't crossed with the white so it is all up and growing well and now time to start flooding it as we have been irrigating with sprinklers. The Ford was a demon on Fire as i disced the rice under a full moon and howling the entire time and we have a contest between us to see who wil die first and I'll never bet on my Ford Forever. peace and love

PS After planting the rice made a good run back to Bangkok to catch Carlos Santana and Carabao put it on with Carlos' new wife upstaging them all with an unbelieveable display of drums that had to be the best I have ever seen and words can't describe it.

So if my memory serves me well this should be just about right for now. What says you Issan Aussie and Doc Treelove (never heard a peep from Bee and phone was a no go)

and this is from the last time Carlos and the Carabao boys got together. I hope they come back and play again soon

at 4:44 to 6:66 is the best guitar solos you can want to ever hear. they just rocked it.

Well yes, nice and loud.