10,000 Police, Soldiers, Security Officials Deployed To Keep Security At Government House

[sriracha john]

A Buddhist monk walks past a portrait of Thailand's ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra during a demonstration at Government House in Bangkok, Apr 1, 2009. Thailand's government offered Wednesday to hold talks with Thaksin in a bid to defuse week-long protests that have reignited the kingdom's political chaos.

AFP

[Journalist]

I wouldnt underestimate the ability of the red to put a lot of feet on the ground at their next huge rally.

As long as its at the weekend. People have to work.

These are not the legions of Grannies and unemployed leeches such as PAD could bulldoze into position and leave there for months with a few boxes of dried fish and a couple of chamber pots. These are the real working people of Thailand.

[sriracha john]

I wouldnt underestimate the ability of the red to put a lot of feet on the ground at their next huge rally.

As long as its at the weekend. People have to work.

These are not the legions of Grannies and unemployed leeches such as PAD could bulldoze into position and leave there for months with a few boxes of dried fish and a couple of chamber pots. These are the real working people of Thailand.

From Hong Kong, how many have you talked to?

[Journalist]

^All of them.

Via Facebook.

[hammered]

I wouldnt underestimate the ability of the red to put a lot of feet on the ground at their next huge rally.

As long as its at the weekend. People have to work.

These are not the legions of Grannies and unemployed leeches such as PAD could bulldoze into position and leave there for months with a few boxes of dried fish and a couple of chamber pots. These are the real working people of Thailand.

It depends on how busy it is in the rural areas. Farming is seasonal work and there isnt a lot of daily labour required right now, so there is a lot of potential for both true believers and hirelings to be ferried in to BKK any day. The ranks of the unemployed are a lot bigger now too Conventional wisdom says weekend although UDD seem to be saying weekday, which I will admit does seem odd although times are relatively quiet on the farms.

[Denim]

Good one ;-) Glad you guys haven't lost your sense of humor. Thought you might be going through withdrawals after an hour without D-Station. And yes, you are right...I am 50 and I refuse to grow up, because grown ups are mean and secondy, I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up :-)

I was in Pattaya last year when the local free rag did a survey of the adverage age of the falang community. They arrived at a figure of 60 something. If this is the benchmark then most of us are still spring chickens.

[sriracha john]

I wouldnt underestimate the ability of the red to put a lot of feet on the ground at their next huge rally.

As long as its at the weekend. People have to work.

These are not the legions of Grannies and unemployed leeches such as PAD could bulldoze into position and leave there for months with a few boxes of dried fish and a couple of chamber pots. These are the real working people of Thailand.

From Hong Kong, how many have you talked to?

^All of them.

Via Facebook.

What's this one had to say so far?

[sriracha john]

Speaking of real working people, the Reds head off to Pattaya next week...

[sriracha john]

Pattaya rally puts focus on Abhisit, Kasit

PATTAYA : Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya will be the focus of rallies planned to coincide with the East Asian Summit being held in this resort city next week.

Jureeporn Sinthupai, the leader of anti-government forces in Pattaya, said several hundred protesters would join the rally during the summit from April 10-12 as they do not think Mr Abhisit has the legitimacy to run the country.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/1437...n-abhisit-kasit

[hammered]

Pattaya rally puts focus on Abhisit, Kasit

PATTAYA : Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya will be the focus of rallies planned to coincide with the East Asian Summit being held in this resort city next week.

Jureeporn Sinthupai, the leader of anti-government forces in Pattaya, said several hundred protesters would join the rally during the summit from April 10-12 as they do not think Mr Abhisit has the legitimacy to run the country.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/1437...n-abhisit-kasit

It will be interesting to see how many people they get from Pattaya if the rally isnt sanctioned by the local influentials. Their connection to Thaksin before saw them all beaten by Dem candidates in the last election with PPP coming in a poor third. Im not sure in Chonburi they will want to have too much red action going on. A small peaceful demo maybe made bigger by those bussed in from BKK I guess.

[sriracha john]

As long as its at the weekend. People have to work.

These are not the legions of Grannies and unemployed leeches such as PAD could bulldoze into position and leave there for months with a few boxes of dried fish and a couple of chamber pots. These are the real working people of Thailand.

seems to be a lot of this "real" stuff being said lately....

Real Thai citizens are supporting the protests and there are no protesters being paid to join the rally.

- Banned politician Somchai Wonsawat / 2009-04-02

[Plus]

if even half of the 111 get involved, and obviosuly it wont be all, then the next big rally could easily see 100K plus on the streets.

Ahh, but how many TRT execs are left with Thaksin? I think it's only second tier and ideologists from party list without any real following.

[h90]

I wouldnt underestimate the ability of the red to put a lot of feet on the ground at their next huge rally. Up to now some of what they have done has been testing their own organization. Some has worked well and some has failed. Outside of their major provincial strongholds the local rallies were a mess and they havent been able to get hundreds of thousands in BKK yet judging form TV and pictures although 30K looks bit low for some images it doesnt look 100K either. However, these guys are learning as they go. The leftists can only get relatively small numbers but Thaksin himself boosts this and now with Thaksin calling on the 111 who all have their own supporters they are clearly trying to expand the size of the demo. Of course numbers will also be boosted with pay for play characters. However, if even half of the 111 get involved, and obviosuly it wont be all, then the next big rally could easily see 100K plus on the streets.

The government are bound to be talking to anyione they can behind the scenes and trying to do deals etc with any of the 111 they can as well as trying to endcourage obstruct up country turnout.

Quite frankly a huge demo marching on Prems house is a massive flashpoint as the authorities will try and stop it. There is a difference between seizing GH and seizing personal property especially the property of this person and what he symbolises. This is heading towards very turbulent waters.

The only things that will derail the train crash are a low turn out, which the government are hoping for but seem to expect, some change of heart or tactics or a deal to wind to things down either temporarily or permanently or some divine intervention. I would like to be proven very wrong on this but it doesnt look good to me obn the no violence front. Things are tense.

On the other side you have Newin, who is gaining his old power back, he'll block whatever he can.

I don't think they can get much more than 50K.

Look very careful on the images, some look like more people than they are actually. I haven't seen anything which looks like more than 20K (20K people is a lot).

[Insight]

Speaking of real working people, the Reds head off to Pattaya next week...

Very good

[hammered]

if even half of the 111 get involved, and obviosuly it wont be all, then the next big rally could easily see 100K plus on the streets.

Ahh, but how many TRT execs are left with Thaksin? I think it's only second tier and ideologists from party list without any real following.

I think that is something nobody is actually sure of. In some ways Thaksin is checking this himself as he probably doesnt trust all the info he is fed. A lot of the 111 have kept quiet. I bet all the fence sitters are being lobbied by both sides either to come out or stay home.

Certainly the Newin camp are not going to be feeding him but the Northern guys probably will. It will be interesting to see.

If this does fail it will also be interesting to see what Thaksin does next. he isnt going to disappear by the looks of it.

Edited to add: I still see potential for violence in this one unless ther march on Prem's house isnt actually going to happen and is just aimed at getting out supporters and hoping to encourage a violent action from government or PAD before the planned date.

Edited April 2, 2009 by hammered

[justanothercybertosser]

I wouldn/t be at all surprised, if you suggested not reading anything that doesn't go along with your point of view.

There are some of us, who read both sides of the story and make up our own minds afterwards.

There are fluff pieces, and there are peer reviewed papers by academics. What i have suggested you to read - Thonchai Winichakul's "Remembering/Silencing the Past" - is peer reviewed, has the relevant references and footnotes.

But i am sure you haven't read it...

And if the investigations into May '92 would be made public finally, we could maybe finally get proof of some other very nasty allegations that have been making the rounds.

You people are hero worshiping an image that has no base in reality.

[Plus]

We are not doing hero worshipping, we are just surprised by your mud slinging. Not that surprised actually, as all of this has been covered many times already.

[justanothercybertosser]

We are not doing hero worshipping, we are just surprised by your mud slinging. Not that surprised actually, as all of this has been covered many times already.

Since when is citing peer reviewed academic papers to counter unsubstantiated claims ("one of the most upstanding citizens") "mud slinging"?

[leonn]

We are not doing hero worshipping, we are just surprised by your mud slinging. Not that surprised actually, as all of this has been covered many times already.

Since when is citing peer reviewed academic papers to counter unsubstantiated claims ("one of the most upstanding citizens") "mud slinging"?

Plus ain't fooling anyone anymore. Even the poorest and least educated Thai people know what is going on here.

He refuses to acknowledge that it is the beginning of the end, but there is nothing he or anyone else can do against the natural course of history .

[hanuman1]

We are not doing hero worshipping, we are just surprised by your mud slinging. Not that surprised actually, as all of this has been covered many times already.

Since when is citing peer reviewed academic papers to counter unsubstantiated claims ("one of the most upstanding citizens") "mud slinging"?

I'm with you, tosser.

And citing peer reviewed academic papers to counter unsubstantiated claims has been 'mud slinging' ever since man developed the facility to let go of his objectivity in favour of visceral chest-beating and self-agrandisement. Or maybe objectivity just hasn't been developed in some.

Keep up the comments.

H.

[Plus]

Since when is citing peer reviewed academic papers to counter unsubstantiated claims ("one of the most upstanding citizens") "mud slinging"?

For one thing, in those days Chamlong hadn't joined Santi Asoke yet, hadn't met their leader. He subsequently renounced all violence. Chamlong of 1976 and Chamlong of 2006 are two different people with different philosophy and different attitudes.

Chamlong changed and proved himself during years and decades of public service. Samak and Chalerm haven't.

How come you don't denounce Chalerm?

[Plus]

I mean, come on.

Pad are bad because they are led by Chamlong, and Chamlong is bad because he allegedly did something bad before hie religious conversion, more than thirty years ago.

Reds are good no matter what, even if they are led by Chalerm and Samak, who both still lie through their teeth and deny the massacre took place.

And for this reasoning, PAD are designated as descendants of right wing militias of the 70s, and reds as newly born democrats?

If you believed that crap yourself you'd be insane.

[justanothercybertosser]

Since when is citing peer reviewed academic papers to counter unsubstantiated claims ("one of the most upstanding citizens") "mud slinging"?

For one thing, in those days Chamlong hadn't joined Santi Asoke yet, hadn't met their leader. He subsequently renounced all violence. Chamlong of 1976 and Chamlong of 2006 are two different people with different philosophy and different attitudes.

Chamlong changed and proved himself during years and decades of public service. Samak and Chalerm haven't.

How come you don't denounce Chalerm?

You assume a lot here. As Chamlong has never made any public statement as to his role in the 70's, has even rejected accusations against overwhelming evidence (such as former village scouts and participants of the events within the in Palang Dhamma party confirming this), and still carries the exact same political philosophy of right wing nationalism within the PAD we can safely assume that he has not renounced violence. Very recent evidence of such is that a Dhamma Army lorry was raided by police during the Airport occupation, and guns and bombs were found.

No Plus, as much as you want to rewrite history and even current events - the evidence is on my side. On your side of the argument are only unsubstantiated claims, wishful thinking and baseless poison propaganda.

No need to denounce Chalerm, Samak, and similar characters - you are doing a good job of it, and i have nothing to counter or add there. These people are as shady as Chamlong, though (slightly) less hypocrites.

[justanothercybertosser]

I mean, come on.

Pad are bad because they are led by Chamlong, and Chamlong is bad because he allegedly did something bad before hie religious conversion, more than thirty years ago.

Reds are good no matter what, even if they are led by Chalerm and Samak, who both still lie through their teeth and deny the massacre took place.

And for this reasoning, PAD are designated as descendants of right wing militias of the 70s, and reds as newly born democrats?

If you believed that crap yourself you'd be insane.

And that is evidence of the fact that you have slight difficulties to read other people's posts.

I have stated on more than a few occasions that both groups are as violent as the other. While you have to interpret into my posts a qualification along simplistic lines of "good" and "bad", i just prefer to analyze the political philosophies behind these two groups, and why there is an inevitable clash between those.

Yellow stands for ultraconservative views with a strong role of military and traditional elites over the electorate, and Red demands stand for electorate over these aforementioned elites. Both sides are representing political philosophies, a point you seem to ignore, as you consistently belittle the Red Shirts, and to do so bend facts in order to make your point. You ignore for the sake of propaganda every academic study worth mentioning that counters your highly ideological views. This here is just one of many examples of such, far too numerous to list here.

[Journalist]

I understand that Chamlong was so popular as Governor of Bangkok that he was gifted deeds of properties as gratitude.

Now he may have passed those on to his Foundations, and not kept them for himself, but its still unethical for such transactions to take place - especially if the donor received some concession from the City in return

[Plus]

Chamlong has never made any public statement as to his role in the 70's,

I believe there's something even in that paper that you called a "fluff" piece.

PAD are right wing nationalists because they are led by Chamlong, and Chamlong is right wing nationationalist because he is in PAD.

Actually, come to think of it, anyone loyal to the monarchy is labelled right wing nationalist fascist pig, and anyone opposing them is a newly found democratic ideal. Thaksin, Samak, Chalerm - they are all brothers as soon as they fight against right wing nationalist fascist pigs.

[h90]

I understand that Chamlong was so popular as Governor of Bangkok that he was gifted deeds of properties as gratitude.

Now he may have passed those on to his Foundations, and not kept them for himself, but its still unethical for such transactions to take place - especially if the donor received some concession from the City in return

ONLY!

If I donate something without getting something it is not unethical.

If receiving something it is called corruption and it does matter if it goes in his own pocket or to his foundations.

But with Chamlongs high standards it would surprise me if any kinds of corruption can be found.

[rixalex]

I'm with you, tosser.

FYI: Although the shortened version may seem apt, be warned that mods have requested that we use his full moniker.

Edited April 2, 2009 by rixalex

[sriracha john]

Matichon

===============================

Somchai says rally is for 'true democracy', not Thaksin

Former prime minister Somchai Wongsawat told red-clad protesters on Wednesday night that the ongoing rally was a fight for "true democracy," and not directly for ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra.

Somchai and leaders of the protest echoed what Thaksin had told his supporters on the previous nights during his speech.

Thaksin, who has escaped an imprisonment sentence at home, did not make his speech on Wednesday night.

The protest organisers blamed the cancellation on a two-hour interruption of the satellite-based D Station broadcast in the evening. D Station broadcasts the ongoing protest and Thaksin's video linkup.

Somchai on Wednesday night said the ongoing protest by the red shirts was for a better future of Thailand, rather than for Thaksin.

"Any benefit for Thaksin will be only a by-product," he said.

He said Thailand's political vicious cycle dominated by coups was due to the fact that the voice of ordinary people had never been heard.

"We are doing this for the country and for our children and grandchildren," Somchai said of the ongoing protest by the red shirts.

The ex-PM was speaking to thousands of the red shirts gathering outside Government House. He appeared on stage at the protest site amidst loud cheers from the anti-government protesters. The bespectacled Somchai wore red a T-shirt, with a red garland around his neck.

The leaders of the protest, as well as Thaksin who has addressed the protesters nightly, describe the protest as a fight for "true democracy" in Thailand.

Somchai criticised certain provisions in the Constitution. He said the clause that requires a political party to be dissolved when only one party executive commits wrongdoing is unfair.

Somchai was forced to step down as prime minister after the Constitutional Court ruled to dissolve his People Power Party for electoral fraud.

Somchai told the audience that he was informed about an interruption of D Station broadcast of the protest in the evening. The broadcast was resumed shortly after 7 pm, and leaders of the protest blamed authorities for the interruption.

Leaders of the protest repeated their allegations that Privy Council president Prem Tinsulanonda was behind the coup of September 19, 2006. Veera Musigapong, a pro-Thaksin politician, continued his attack on certain privy councilors, accusing them of interfering with politics.

The protest leaders continued their attack on what they described as a political system dominated by aristocracy.

They issued a statement calling for a nationwide protest with the goal of "bringing about a true democracy within our generation".

- The Nation / 2009-04-02

[justanothercybertosser]

Chamlong has never made any public statement as to his role in the 70's,

I believe there's something even in that paper that you called a "fluff" piece.

PAD are right wing nationalists because they are led by Chamlong, and Chamlong is right wing nationationalist because he is in PAD.

Actually, come to think of it, anyone loyal to the monarchy is labelled right wing nationalist fascist pig, and anyone opposing them is a newly found democratic ideal. Thaksin, Samak, Chalerm - they are all brothers as soon as they fight against right wing nationalist fascist pigs.

That lousy attempt of sarcasm doesn't even qualify as sophism. Loyality towards the monarchy is not a subject that is debatable here on this forum, so i would ask you to refrain from such accusations.

There is no need to get nasty when you run out of reasonable arguments.

The PAD are ultraconservative because their political philosophy fits the definition.