Bangkok

[~G~]

Thai people say Krung-Thep. Where did "Bangkok" come from?

[chonabot]

Bangkok is derived from two primitive Thai words, i.e. "Bang" means Village and "Kok" means Olive, thus its original meaning is "Village of Olive". In the olden days, Bangkok was just a small agricultural and fishing village where people traveled mainly by rowing boats.

[Edward B]

Thai people say Krung-Thep. Where did "Bangkok" come from?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Confucious say: "Man who walk through turnstiles sideways going to Bangkok"

...sorry, couldn't resist.

Edited January 20, 2005 by Edward B

[~G~]

And is there a meaning to "KrungThep"?

[p_brownstone]

And is there a meaning to "KrungThep"?

"Krung Thep" is actually an abreviation for ......

Krung Thep Mahanakhon Amon Rattanakosin Mahinthara Ayuthaya Mahadilok Phop Noppharat Ratchathani Burirom Udomratchaniwet Mahasathan Amon Piman Awatan Sathit Sakkathattiya Witsanukam Prasit

which translates as .....

The city of angels, the great city, the residence of the Emerald Buddha, the impregnable city (of Ayutthaya) of God Indra, the grand capital of the world endowed with nine precious gems, the happy city, abounding in an enormous Royal Palace that resembles the heavenly abode where reigns the reincarnated god, a city given by Indra and built by Vishnukarn.

Patrick

[Edward B]

กรุงเทพ = City of Angels. Of course it has a much longer name. In fact, the long version is the longest place name in the world!

[Richard W]

Bangkok is derived from two primitive Thai words, i.e. "Bang" means Village and "Kok" means Olive, thus its original meaning is "Village of Olive".  In the olden days, Bangkok was just a small agricultural and fishing village where people traveled mainly by rowing boats.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And was on the right bank, not the left bank. Bangkok itself has grown quite a bit - we now have both Bangkok Yai and Bangkok Noi.

[Edward B]

And was on the right bank, not the left bank.

Depends if you were travelling up or down the river, doesn't it?

Bangkok = บางกอก (pronounced 'baang gork')

[dezeure]

This is the longest city name in the world... the reason for the abbreviation is that the whole name didn't fit on a name card

And is there a meaning to "KrungThep"?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Krung Thep" is actually an abreviation for ......

Krung Thep Mahanakhon Amon Rattanakosin Mahinthara Ayuthaya Mahadilok Phop Noppharat Ratchathani Burirom Udomratchaniwet Mahasathan Amon Piman Awatan Sathit Sakkathattiya Witsanukam Prasit

which translates as .....

The city of angels, the great city, the residence of the Emerald Buddha, the impregnable city (of Ayutthaya) of God Indra, the grand capital of the world endowed with nine precious gems, the happy city, abounding in an enormous Royal Palace that resembles the heavenly abode where reigns the reincarnated god, a city given by Indra and built by Vishnukarn.

Patrick

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Richard W]

And was on the right bank, not the left bank.

Depends if you were travelling up or down the river, doesn't it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No.

[Richard W]

And is there a meaning to "KrungThep"?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Krung Thep" is actually an abreviation for ......

Krung Thep Mahanakhon Amon Rattanakosin Mahinthara Ayuthaya Mahadilok Phop Noppharat Ratchathani Burirom Udomratchaniwet Mahasathan Amon Piman Awatan Sathit Sakkathattiya Witsanukam Prasit

which translates as .....

The city of angels, the great city, the residence of the Emerald Buddha, the impregnable city (of Ayutthaya) of God Indra, the grand capital of the world endowed with nine precious gems, the happy city, abounding in an enormous Royal Palace that resembles the heavenly abode where reigns the reincarnated god, a city given by Indra and built by Vishnukarn.

Patrick

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How do you get 'the residence of the Emerald Buddha' out of this? The spelling and a different translation are given at Name of Bangkok.

Isn't the name given above a shortening (as well as a slight modification) of the name originally proclaimed?

[meadish_sweetball]

It all just sounds like name-dropping to me.

[~G~]

Ok, so we have Village of Olives (Bangkok) and City of Angels (Krungthep), and a full long version. I assume the place was initially called Bangkok and then got the longer name. When did it happen? And how come that the international name is the old one?

[chingy_]

i have heard some where before that they want to change the name of Bangkok to Siam or something like that (not sure)

[NarrLing]

I believe that was to change the name of Thailand back to Siam to appease the people in the southern regions.

[Richard W]

Ok, so we have Village of Olives (Bangkok) and City of Angels (Krungthep), and a full long version. I assume the place was initially called Bangkok and then got the longer name. When did it happen? And how come that the international name is the old one?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1782. Read the beginning of Bangkok for more information.

[Johpa]

Bangkok is derived from two primitive Thai words, i.e. "Bang" means Village and "Kok" means Olive, thus its original meaning is "Village of Olive".  In the olden days, Bangkok was just a small agricultural and fishing village where people traveled mainly by rowing boats.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yea, try to find a single Thai who will eat an olive. I have seen many a tree in the Kingdom, but never an olive tree.

If my memory serves me correctly, and no guarantees here, Kok refers to a type of reed.

[p_brownstone]

Bangkok is derived from two primitive Thai words, i.e. "Bang" means Village and "Kok" means Olive, thus its original meaning is "Village of Olive".  In the olden days, Bangkok was just a small agricultural and fishing village where people traveled mainly by rowing boats.

Yea, try to find a single Thai who will eat an olive. I have seen many a tree in the Kingdom, but never an olive tree.

If my memory serves me correctly, and no guarantees here, Kok refers to a type of reed.

The Asian olive is nothing like the one used in Martinis.

I have a "Makok" tree in my garden here in Bangkok, the fruit is hard, about the size of a billiard ball, and the taste is somewhere between a green Mango and a"Farang".

Patrick

[chonabot]

Bangkok is derived from two primitive Thai words, i.e. "Bang" means Village and "Kok" means Olive, thus its original meaning is "Village of Olive".  In the olden days, Bangkok was just a small agricultural and fishing village where people traveled mainly by rowing boats.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yea, try to find a single Thai who will eat an olive. I have seen many a tree in the Kingdom, but never an olive tree.

If my memory serves me correctly, and no guarantees here, Kok refers to a type of reed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

&lt;deleted&gt;

[meadish_sweetball]

Bangkok is derived from two primitive Thai words, i.e. "Bang" means Village and "Kok" means Olive, thus its original meaning is "Village of Olive".  In the olden days, Bangkok was just a small agricultural and fishing village where people traveled mainly by rowing boats.

Yea, try to find a single Thai who will eat an olive. I have seen many a tree in the Kingdom, but never an olive tree.

If my memory serves me correctly, and no guarantees here, Kok refers to a type of reed.

The Asian olive is nothing like the one used in Martinis.

I have a "Makok" tree in my garden here in Bangkok, the fruit is hard, about the size of a billiard ball, and the taste is somewhere between a green Mango and a"Farang".

Patrick

Also pretty sure it comes from the มะกอก (Makok fruit) which in turn comes from the Makok Tree ต้นกอก .

[Edward B]

The Asian olive is nothing like the one used in Martinis.

I have a "Makok" tree in my garden here in Bangkok, the fruit is hard, about the size of a billiard ball, and the taste is somewhere between a green Mango and a"Farang".

Patrick

So a Western man's olive is a thai woman's ฝรั่ง ?

[~G~]

Ok, so we have Village of Olives (Bangkok) and City of Angels (Krungthep), and a full long version. I assume the place was initially called Bangkok and then got the longer name. When did it happen? And how come that the international name is the old one?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1782. Read the beginning of Bangkok for more information.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Richard. In your link it said: "...For convenience, it is the custom to abbreviate the name to Krung Thep. And for their further convenience, Westerners continue to call the place just Bangkok. "

However, I still don't find this explenation fully satisfiable. "Bangkok" is the capital's name as far as non-Thais are concenred. How come it is so commonly used, two centuries after it was changed? I guess that many Thais continued to use "Bangkok" as an alternative name. Did anyone hear a Thai person use "Bangkok" while speaking in thai?

Another possible explanation, is that "Bangkok" became very known to westerners more than 2 centuries ago and so the name change didn't significantly affect countries outside Thailand. By the way, do Lao and Cambodian people use "Bagnkok" or "Krung Thep"?

[meadish_sweetball]

Ok, so we have Village of Olives (Bangkok) and City of Angels (Krungthep), and a full long version. I assume the place was initially called Bangkok and then got the longer name. When did it happen? And how come that the international name is the old one?

1782. Read the beginning of Bangkok for more information.

Thanks Richard. In your link it said: "...For convenience, it is the custom to abbreviate the name to Krung Thep. And for their further convenience, Westerners continue to call the place just Bangkok. "

However, I still don't find this explenation fully satisfiable. "Bangkok" is the capital's name as far as non-Thais are concenred. How come it is so commonly used, two centuries after it was changed? I guess that many Thais continued to use "Bangkok" as an alternative name. Did anyone hear a Thai person use "Bangkok" while speaking in thai?

Another possible explanation, is that "Bangkok" became very known to westerners more than 2 centuries ago and so the name change didn't significantly affect countries outside Thailand. By the way, do Lao and Cambodian people use "Bagnkok" or "Krung Thep"?

I have heard Thai people use บางกอก in Thai, but only jokingly, paraphrasing the English name of the city. In normal conversation I only hear Krungtheep, or, also jokingly (maybe just in Northern Thailand?) Meuang Krung.

Lao people use "K®ung theep" when speaking Lao as far as I could make out when I was there.

Don't know about Cambodians but would be surprised if they did not use "Bangkok". Lao and Thai are mutually intelligible languages so it makes much more sense that they use the same term.

[Richard W]

"Bangkok" is the capital's name as far as non-Thais are concenred. How come it is so commonly used, two centuries after it was changed?

I suspect name changes used not to be followed as slavishly as they are now. Besides, Rama I may not have seemed so securely ensconced. The previous two kings had been deposed and succeeded by unrelated kings. Moreover, how far did the original Krungthep extend? I don't think it stretched as far as Thonburi, so there was still an area that needed a name, and therefore would keep the old name.

I can envisage that Thais would see the capital as the important place, whereas Europeans would be more interested in the port area. Where was it in those days?

You say 'two centuries'. How about Damascus? Unrelated or misapplied country names are commonplace:

Misapplied: England, Holland in their various guises about the world.

Unrelated: Germany (a spectacular example!), Greece, India, Egypt, Finland.

As to slavishly following names, formal names often don't stick cf. Nop Buri Sri Nakornping Chiangmai. More parochially, there's the College of the Blessed Virgin Mary, St John the Evangelist and the Glorious Virgin St Rhadegund at Cambridge. It's commonly known as 'Jesus College'.

I guess that many Thais continued to use "Bangkok" as an alternative name. Did anyone hear a Thai person use "Bangkok" while speaking in thai?

Remember that there are the two districts Bangkok Yai and Bangkok Noi on the right bank. You will find these used in Thai addresses.

Another possible explanation, is that "Bangkok" became very known to westerners more than 2 centuries ago and so the name change didn't significantly affect countries outside Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is certainly the reason that applies now.

Edited January 21, 2005 by Richard W

[Khutan]

So a Western man's olive is a thai woman's ฝรั่ง  ? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or even Bukseeda

[Richard W]

Lao people use "K®ung theep" when speaking Lao as far as I could make out when I was there.

Don't know about Cambodians but would be surprised if they did not use "Bangkok". Lao and Thai are mutually intelligible languages so it makes much more sense that they use the same term.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Laos and Cambodia were under Thai suzerainty during the early Rattankosin era, though Vietnam disputed it. Vietnam's intermittent triumphs were the basis of the French claim to them. Without French intervention, there probably wouldn't be a Cambodia today, and few would talk of a Lao language.

[sabaijai]

Most Lao living in Laos refer to the Thai capital as Bangkok. Even Lao Aviation schedules read (in Lao script) 'Bangkok'. I've never heard a Lao use the name Krungthep unless they were speaking Thai.

Also 'olive' is not a very good translation of มะกอก. The English name used by botanists is 'hog plum'.

The มะกอก tree is common enough in Thailand. Many somtam vendors - especially those hailing from Laos or with Lao ties - add มะกอก to somtam. In Laos somtam (tam maak hung in Lao) almost always contains slices of hog plum. It adds a tart/sour flavour.

hog plum

[meadish_sweetball]

Most Lao living in Laos refer to the Thai capital as Bangkok. Even Lao Aviation schedules read (in Lao script) 'Bangkok'. I've never heard a Lao use the name Krungthep unless they were speaking Thai.

hog plum

I suppose they used Krung theep with me because I speak Thai and not Lao (well, phrase-book Lao).

[Tarragona]

Originally "Bang Makok" (บางมะกอก) from the plum, according to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangkok

This, in Thai, is also interesting about origins of Wat Arun, once known as Wat Makok, possibly Wat Bangmakok, as it was in Tambon Bangmakok.

http://www.watarun.org/historyx.html