How To Deal With Extreme Attitudes

[Sabum]

You know SBK I like you and try to respect alot of what you say but sometimes you seem to have very strange opinions that must come when you marry into the country and start to feel defensive about anything negative pointed out. Thai people are racist, so are other countries, but to deny that Thai people have a problem with racism is denying the sky is blue. Racism comes from ignorance, fear and lack of proper education and is compounded by xenophobic nationalistic propaganda. That is Thailands description perfectly. Thailands got many great things, but an attitude of equality and acceptance of foreigners from neighbouring countries is NOT one of them.

[ChangMaiSausage]

Sorry sbk I have to agree with Sabum, some Thai people can be very cruel and cutting in their remarks to non Thai Asian nationals in Thailand. It seems to be more common amongst working folk.

do you find that it's more common from some thai women or men?

Thai women even heard it among my wife's friends who live inside & outside of Thailand. It's not nasty gossip but if I was nationality that they were talking about I would be upset.

[bkkjames]

I wonder if its different about the comments we make about the Yanks or the Aussies about the Pommies and so forth. Racist or Nationalist - guess it depends on who's holding the flag.

[stiggy]

Without any doubt the average Thai looks down on Burmese people.

Quite often I am disgusted by the way my Thai friends/Staff change when they realise someone is from Burma.

Any one who disputes this either hasn't seen any exchanges between the two nationalities or is living with their head up their backside.

For me its one the hardest things to witness here.

Local law dictates if from Burma.

Cannot have a motorbike.

Cannot own a mobile phone

Curfew of 9pm

[Sabum]

Without any doubt the average Thai looks down on Burmese people.

Quite often I am disgusted by the way my Thai friends/Staff change when they realise someone is from Burma.

Any one who disputes this either hasn't seen any exchanges between the two nationalities or is living with their head up their backside.

For me its one the hardest things to witness here.

Local law dictates if from Burma.

Cannot have a motorbike.

Cannot own a mobile phone

Curfew of 9pm

Cmon that can't be true.... what do you mean by "local"?

[stiggy]

South Islands.

[Sabum]

Well, that's pretty bad, 9pm curfew and no moblie phone? Why don't they just move them all into a locked down ghetto or camp?

[barky]

Without any doubt the average Thai looks down on Burmese people.

Quite often I am disgusted by the way my Thai friends/Staff change when they realise someone is from Burma.

Any one who disputes this either hasn't seen any exchanges between the two nationalities or is living with their head up their backside.

For me its one the hardest things to witness here.

Local law dictates if from Burma.

Cannot have a motorbike.

Cannot own a mobile phone

Curfew of 9pm

Tend to agree here. Seen it a couple of times myself over the years. Simply put, Thais honestly believe they are far far supperior to all their neighbouring countries in absolutely every aspect. Yes, countries like NZ and OZ have a healthy rilvary, particularly in sport, but there is utmost respect and genuine friendship between the two nations and the vast majority of their peoples.

I understand there is a long history between Thailand and some of its neighbours, but get over it Thailand and grow up (if you can).

Additionally, I do agree with another poster that was wondering why you were still living there. Maybe the answer is that no matter where you moved in Thailand you would encounter a similar situation.

Edited March 30, 2009 by barky

[bridge]

Well, that's pretty bad, 9pm curfew and no moblie phone? Why don't they just move them all into a locked down ghetto or camp?

I think might find that that may already be the case.

[Jimjim]

Racism, nationalism, it doesn't matter what you call it. When it comes to some Thais' attitudes about and actions towards Burmese it doesn't really matter, the end result is the same. I've never lived in Burma but it could very well be the same considering the history between the two nations. And, while to an ignorant Westerner they may seem "quite similar" don't try telling an ethnic Bamar or an ethnic Tai that they are basically the same as the other.

[LadyHeather]

I wonder if its different about the comments we make about the Yanks or the Aussies about the Pommies and so forth. Racist or Nationalist - guess it depends on who's holding the flag.

I wonder if its any different from comments westerners on Thai Visa make about Thai people?

[myauq]

Racism, nationalism, it doesn't matter what you call it. When it comes to some Thais' attitudes about and actions towards Burmese it doesn't really matter, the end result is the same. I've never lived in Burma but it could very well be the same considering the history between the two nations. And, while to an ignorant Westerner they may seem "quite similar" don't try telling an ethnic Bamar or an ethnic Tai that they are basically the same as the other.

i have to dispel this myth that burmese people dislike thais, which is some times quoted as a defence for said thai attitudes. anyone who has spent any time in burma, including thais or any other people for that matter, will know that this is plainly not the case.

living in one of the most politically deprived countries in the world, being interested in leaving and inheriting a liberal education system from the british, and having a culturally/linguistically diverse population, means that they do not have the same hang-ups about ethnicity and nationalism that thais do.

[toybits]

Even my Thai wife has a few unflattering generalizations about Cambodians, Lao and Burmese people.

Sorry sbk I have to agree with Sabum, some Thai people can be very cruel and cutting in their remarks to non Thai Asian nationals in Thailand. It seems to be more common amongst working folk.

[bkkjames]

So back to the question posed by the OP, how to deal with Extreme Attitudes in Thailand, ignore? educate? confront?

[SoiGirlHunter]

There is alot of racism here

I even experienced some. When i lived in BKK i would frequent the english pub in the landmark hotel before rolling over to nana.

Well i went to phuket for a vacation and got very tanned, when i came back i happened to go back to that pub and I sat

down and was completely ingnored by the bar staff. I finally got angry and said "Can I have a beer please!" The bartender

comes over and says "sorry i cannot serve Indians". I said i am a damm american. He said I dont believe. I pulled out a copy of

my passport and inspected for a good 5 mins and finally says OK with a scowl.

I was dressed nicely too, mai kee nok

[ChangMaiSausage]

There is alot of racism here

I even experienced some. When i lived in BKK i would frequent the english pub in the landmark hotel before rolling over to nana.

Well i went to phuket for a vacation and got very tanned, when i came back i happened to go back to that pub and I sat

down and was completely ingnored by the bar staff. I finally got angry and said "Can I have a beer please!" The bartender

comes over and says "sorry i cannot serve Indians". I said i am a damm american. He said I dont believe. I pulled out a copy of

my passport and inspected for a good 5 mins and finally says OK with a scowl.

I was dressed nicely too, mai kee nok

Hope you did not stay for a drink! f@@k them.

[Sabum]

There is alot of racism here

I even experienced some. When i lived in BKK i would frequent the english pub in the landmark hotel before rolling over to nana.

Well i went to phuket for a vacation and got very tanned, when i came back i happened to go back to that pub and I sat

down and was completely ingnored by the bar staff. I finally got angry and said "Can I have a beer please!" The bartender

comes over and says "sorry i cannot serve Indians". I said i am a damm american. He said I dont believe. I pulled out a copy of

my passport and inspected for a good 5 mins and finally says OK with a scowl.

I was dressed nicely too, mai kee nok

LOL! Jeeze! Ok falangs so don't get too tanned because then (imagine old british accent) "the bloody <deleted> will treat us like... bloody <deleted>!"

That was sooo a joke.

[bkkjames]

There is alot of racism here

I even experienced some. When i lived in BKK i would frequent the english pub in the landmark hotel before rolling over to nana.

Well i went to phuket for a vacation and got very tanned, when i came back i happened to go back to that pub and I sat

down and was completely ingnored by the bar staff. I finally got angry and said "Can I have a beer please!" The bartender

comes over and says "sorry i cannot serve Indians". I said i am a damm american. He said I dont believe. I pulled out a copy of

my passport and inspected for a good 5 mins and finally says OK with a scowl.

I was dressed nicely too, mai kee nok

I am trying to figure out what the bolded sentence above has to do with this tale? Meaning, the staff at the landmark would not serve you ? I doubt that considering the whole lower suk area is owned by Thai Indians?

Edited March 30, 2009 by bkkjames

[khundon]

You know SBK I like you and try to respect alot of what you say but sometimes you seem to have very strange opinions that must come when you marry into the country and start to feel defensive about anything negative pointed out. Thai people are racist, so are other countries, but to deny that Thai people have a problem with racism is denying the sky is blue. Racism comes from ignorance, fear and lack of proper education and is compounded by xenophobic nationalistic propaganda. That is Thailands description perfectly. Thailands got many great things, but an attitude of equality and acceptance of foreigners from neighbouring countries is NOT one of them.

Sabum I agree with your post. Just look at how Thai Government and it's laws treat the falang community, with it's draconian and stupid Immmigration laws.

I'm married to a Thai and she is disgusted at the way peoples from other countries are treated , Burmese included.

Education of the young Thais in schools breeds this contempt they have for "outsiders" and needs to be changed.

Mind you many Thai teachers are just passing on what they were taught as children.

[WaiWai]

I doubt many of us could have spent more than a month or two in Thailand without observing this attitude. Nor seeing the connection with a strong reluctance to allow genuine education or information to be imparted.

My guess would be that teaching discrimination towards other groups well serves the interests of those who call the shots. (Divide and conquer.)

If we look at the recent story of the British yachtswoman who survived a (horrifying) ordeal I wonder who, in the end, we must blame?

How to deal with this? I don't have an answer, other than to act with dignity and hope the behaviour of and contact with individuals can have some effect.

Edited March 30, 2009 by WaiWai

[Scott]

People in general have difficulty being nice to any group of people they view as being different--at least for any sustained period of time. If I had a Burmese partner, I would give serious consideration to living in another country--unless I had a persecution complex (or couldn't leave).

The big problem in Thailand is the gov't-sanctioned discrimination which includes severe restrictions on people and different wage structures. This basically, on a national level, classes them as 2nd class citizens. That only feeds on the already negative attitude of most people.

It's very difficult to get one group of people to treat another group in a respectful manner--it's nearly impossible if the gov't doesn't do it first.

[myauq]

It's very difficult to get one group of people to treat another group in a respectful manner--it's nearly impossible if the gov't doesn't do it first.

i disagree with that. if you look at civil rights movements in most other countries, it has been people who have led the changes and the government have been left dragging their feet. you only need look at cases like shared public space regulations or mixed-marriage laws in the united states, australia and uk, to see that increasingly laws and government policies look pathetic in the face of more liberal public attitudes.

[CarlBkk]

Of course Thais are racist against the Burmese! However can anyone who lives here disagree with that? Not only that, but the Thais are unashamedly racist towards them, mostly due to history and current distrust.

Thailand doesn't have the vast historical array of warring encounters to easily forgive and forget past demeanors. Within the last 200 years it's still "fresh" in their minds that the Burmese fought the King, plundered temples, stole gold and took land. They were and still are seen as the aggressors. Add to this all the reportings of Burmese immigrant workers murdering their bosses and maids stealing the household jewellery and running off and the resultant reputation is not improving in Thai minds. They are seen as cruel and untrustworthy amongst Thais from all regions and classes, regardless of any "judge the individual" Western mindset that may be suggested.

[imaneggspurt]

Well at the risk of a holiday ,ill say that a lot of thais are racist even to themselves, it stems from ignorance and lack of education,.take the banning of alcohol to thais during songkran for instance, for farang no problem,.its normal here,. i sympathise with you but you need a thick skin here sometimes,.

[imaneggspurt]

Without any doubt the average Thai looks down on Burmese people.

Quite often I am disgusted by the way my Thai friends/Staff change when they realise someone is from Burma.

Any one who disputes this either hasn't seen any exchanges between the two nationalities or is living with their head up their backside.

For me its one the hardest things to witness here.

Local law dictates if from Burma.

Cannot have a motorbike.

Cannot own a mobile phone

Curfew of 9pm

Tend to agree here. Seen it a couple of times myself over the years. Simply put, Thais honestly believe they are far far supperior to all their neighbouring countries in absolutely every aspect. Yes, countries like NZ and OZ have a healthy rilvary, particularly in sport, but there is utmost respect and genuine friendship between the two nations and the vast majority of their peoples.

I understand there is a long history between Thailand and some of its neighbours, but get over it Thailand and grow up (if you can).

Additionally, I do agree with another poster that was wondering why you were still living there. Maybe the answer is that no matter where you moved in Thailand you would encounter a similar situation.

They may be superior to some of the countries surrounding them, but outside that circle they are a different thing altogether,.

[Scott]

Civil rights is a little bit different situation. In these cases, these are/were all citizens of the country. As such they were afforded certain protections by the gov't and by laws. The point was getting those rights. It also took the gov't (the courts to be exact) to insure that they received equal rights. Then it took a further 20 or so years before ordinary people began to consider them as possibly being equal or at least tolerable.

With foreigners in most countries, the situation is much more fluid. If the economy needs them, they are welcomed--whether legal or illegal. If times are tough, they suffer discrimination at a minimum.

We now live in a world where gov'ts, by examples of the past, should not allow such things as slavery. It should also assure a certain level of fair treatment for everyone setting foot on it's shores--including the Burmese.

[myauq]

Civil rights is a little bit different situation. In these cases, these are/were all citizens of the country. As such they were afforded certain protections by the gov't and by laws. The point was getting those rights. It also took the gov't (the courts to be exact) to insure that they received equal rights. Then it took a further 20 or so years before ordinary people began to consider them as possibly being equal or at least tolerable.

With foreigners in most countries, the situation is much more fluid. If the economy needs them, they are welcomed--whether legal or illegal. If times are tough, they suffer discrimination at a minimum.

We now live in a world where gov'ts, by examples of the past, should not allow such things as slavery. It should also assure a certain level of fair treatment for everyone setting foot on it's shores--including the Burmese.

that's not actually true. in the case of indigenous people and blacks in the united states, they weren't citizens. yes, they lived in the country of their birth, but in australia it took a referendum in 1967 until indigenous people were considered citizens, even then they didn't (even until now) share the same employment, health, educational opportunities that others (including newly arriving migrants) receive. in america even, i don't see that indigenous people have the same kind of fairness in media representation that other (migrant) minority groups recieve, say hispanics or jews.

[SpoliaOpima]

America doesn't have indigenous people. If you're referring to Amerindians, they're Asians who begin crossing the Bering Land Bridge roughly 20,000 to 50,000 years ago.

Edited March 30, 2009 by SpoliaOpima

[myauq]

America doesn't have indigenous people. If you're referring to Amerindians, they're Asians who begin crossing the Bering Land Bridge roughly 20,000 to 50,000 years ago.

that would mean that no country has indigenous people, and that the whole classification and self-identification of indigenous people the world over is just a fiction, because no-one really comes from anywhere.

[myauq]

America doesn't have indigenous people. If you're referring to Amerindians, they're Asians who begin crossing the Bering Land Bridge roughly 20,000 to 50,000 years ago.

that would mean that no country has indigenous people, and that the whole classification and self-identification of indigenous people the world over is just a fiction, because no-one really comes from anywhere.