Work Permit And Retirement Visa

[Maxxamum]

I am cutting back on my work activities trying to substantially live in Thailand. I am a business consultant with clients only in the USA and I think I can do business from anywhere there is high speed internet and a telephone. The only weird part is the time zone differences.

I plan to move to Udon Thani where my wife is from and we will travel 2 or 3 times each year to the USA for 2-4 weeks time each visit. There will be no regularity to my travels...just when I land a new project and need to travel to my client for the business launch. It could be 2 months between trips or 12 months between trips. And our return trip may be via Aruba, Italy, South Pacific, etc.

OK, considering I am 'working' in Thailand but doing something no Thai person can do, and my income will still come from the USA will I need a work permit?

Considering I am not 'retired' what kind of visa will best suit this? I'd hate to do visa runs every 30 days. Should I just get a retirement visa anyway and explain my travels are for 'pleasure'?

My consulting company will remain open with a USA address and a USA bank and I can set up remote wire of funds as necessary.

Everything I have read here pertains to working in Thailand and generating income from Thailand but nothing I have seen pertains to this set up. Any help is greatly appreciated.

[Jingthing]

will I need a work permit?

Assuming you are over 50 which is implied by asking about a retirement visa, here is what I would do.

Live in Thailand on annual extensions based on retirement. Purchase reentry permit(s) that cover your extensions allowing you to travel and retain your permission to stay. Not say word one about working in Thailand to anyone. Just do it. This will "technically" be "illegal" but it is very common and the overhead you would have to incur to be legal here with a work permit for a company that has NOTHING to do with Thailand will almost definitely not be worth your while. We have been over this topic many times, many people will agree with me, some will violently disagree with me, ultimately up to you. Also note you in most but not all cases you will never get a work permit with a retirement visa.

[InterestedObserver]

The work permit is your problem, not the visa. You describe self-employment, on the internet, work in Thailand, so unless you intend to keep a low profile and be invisible to everybody you would be technically working in Thailand illegally without a work permit. There are many topics on this issue in the forum archives, do a search.

If you are 50+ years old just get a multiple-entry Non-Immigrant "O-A" retirement visa in the US before moving to Thailand. If younger than 50, or you don't want the trouble of getting a "O-A", get a multiple-entry Non-Immigrant "O" visa. These visas will give you at least 1 year of multiple entries into Thailand and are extendable for marriage to a Thai or retirement on an annual basis.

Edited April 2, 2009 by InterestedObserver

[InterestedObserver]

Oh, about the high-speed internet connection, Thailand has not yet seen fit to provide high-speed anything to the masses. Something about international gateways, bandwidth availability and rural infrastructure etc. So your IT expectations may not be met. If reliable high-speed internet is critical to your consulting business, be prepared to pay an arm and a leg for it, when it's available.

Edited April 3, 2009 by InterestedObserver

[Maxxamum]

The work permit is your problem, not the visa. You describe self-employment, on the internet, work in Thailand, so unless you intend to keep a low profile and be invisible to everybody you would be technically working in Thailand illegally without a work permit. There are many topics on this issue in the forum archives, do a search.

If you are 50+ years old just get a multiple-entry Non-Immigrant "O-A" retirement visa in the US before moving to Thailand. If younger than 50, or you don't want the trouble of getting a "O-A", get a multiple-entry Non-Immigrant "O" visa. These visas will give you at least 1 year of multiple entries into Thailand and are extendable for marriage to a Thai or retirement on an annual basis.

Yes I am over 50 and married to a Thai lady. My wife owns several hundred rai of farm land that I purchased that she and her family work and we plan to live in her village. that could explain our (her) income in case someone gets nosey. My 'work' activities involve telephone calls and emails etc and I was hoping to get internet speeds faster than DSL and use VOIP with connections to the USA via Vonage or something like it. Other than for voice quality and low cost calling, speed is not that crucial. Yes I can keep it on the down low and my wifes uncle is in the police there so we have whatever leverage that provides. Plus he wants to borrow money too and that may just be the protection I need. I'll have client payments go to my USA bank then wire money in small amounts so it looks like steady retirement income.

Thanks for the info. I'll search this site for other info pertaining to entry permits etc.

[fiddlehead]

I'd check if ADSL is available where you want to set up your home in UdonThani.

I have found that my internet connection is fast enough to make calls via skype out or voipdiscount.com between midnight and 7 AM here. (and good hours for you to be calling USA)

When it's not fast enough, my cell phone here (with AIS) is very clear and fairly inexpensive. (i believe it is around 6 or 7 baht/minute.)

I just dial 0011 and then the area code and number and it goes right thru, no problem.

Good luck.

[ballbreaker]

The work permit is your problem, not the visa. You describe self-employment, on the internet, work in Thailand, so unless you intend to keep a low profile and be invisible to everybody you would be technically working in Thailand illegally without a work permit. There are many topics on this issue in the forum archives, do a search.

If you are 50+ years old just get a multiple-entry Non-Immigrant "O-A" retirement visa in the US before moving to Thailand. If younger than 50, or you don't want the trouble of getting a "O-A", get a multiple-entry Non-Immigrant "O" visa. These visas will give you at least 1 year of multiple entries into Thailand and are extendable for marriage to a Thai or retirement on an annual basis.

Yes I am over 50 and married to a Thai lady. My wife owns several hundred rai of farm land that I purchased that she and her family work and we plan to live in her village. that could explain our (her) income in case someone gets nosey. My 'work' activities involve telephone calls and emails etc and I was hoping to get internet speeds faster than DSL and use VOIP with connections to the USA via Vonage or something like it. Other than for voice quality and low cost calling, speed is not that crucial. Yes I can keep it on the down low and my wifes uncle is in the police there so we have whatever leverage that provides. Plus he wants to borrow money too and that may just be the protection I need. I'll have client payments go to my USA bank then wire money in small amounts so it looks like steady retirement income.

Thanks for the info. I'll search this site for other info pertaining to entry permits etc.

You are already above radar on this if you ask me. The fewer people that know what your doing, including family, the better for you.

Your over 50 and you haven't learned not to lend money to family and friends.

Have you even looked at the financial requirements for obtaining retirement extension of stays?

[Maxxamum]

Well my wife is the only one that knows my plans..and unless she has told anyone else, we have not even discussed this with her mom or family members. As for loans, 5,000-10,000 baht is not that much money and for a small risk we can really see who intended this as a 'loan' verses a 'gift'. As for the land purchases, it is all in my wife's name. If she divorces me I am screwed but after 3 years of marriage it seems I have found a good one not one with devious thoughts. She has agreed to a divorce decree upon arrival to Thailand that awards me 50% of the land in that event but I am not sure if that would be enforceable since farangs cannot own land. I need a lawyer on this. Also in the case of her untimely death (motorbike etc) she wants the land to go to me then to her family after my death. This is another matter I am uncertain about.

As for the financial requirements to retire in Thailand, well I have plenty of money and that is what it seems to me it takes...money in the bank and or the means for income.

[jazzbo]

Kuhn Maxxamum -- To anyone who might be or become concerned, you are most certainly NOT working in Thailand for or with your USA business. All affairs in USA for that business are handled by your Doppelganger. You often check in with the Doppelganger to see about his golf scores and if his slice is improving. You come here on your retirement / vacation to be with your wife's family, to enjoy the splendors of Isaan life, and to watch the grass (rice) grow. All those telephone calls are to your sick Mother whose precarious health often necessitates trips to the USA. The constant emails are to maintain your USA investment portfolio.

[ubonjoe]

As for the financial requirements to retire in Thailand, well I have plenty of money and that is what it seems to me it takes...money in the bank and or the means for income.

You can also apply for an extension of stay based upon marriage to a Thai. It requires 40K baht income per month or 400K baht in a Thai bank for 2 months. A retirement extension requires 65K and 800K. You prove income by doing an income affidavit at the US embassy.

You can get a single entry non immigrant O visa before you travel based upon marriage and apply for the extension during your last 30 days of the 90 days you will get when you enter the country.

I think you have gotten the advise you needed for doing things under the radar. Now get over here and enjoy you time with your wife and family.

Edited August 31, 2009 by ubonjoe

[ubonjoe]

If you decide to go above the radar at a later date the extension based upon marriage would allow you to get a work permit which is not allowed with and extension for retirement.

Your wife could set up a business as a sole trader which would allow you to get the work permit and then pay taxes on your income. Being married to a Thai reduces the Thai employee requirement to 2 verses 4 and cuts the business income required in half also.

This also would be a good way to pay taxes as a path to permanent residency.

[jazzbo]

All that UJ says is true. You can also see what a pain that all is as your true work really IS in the USA unless, of course, you really want to go that permanent resident route. Extension of visa based on retirement is the far simpler way.

Staying under the radar -- in the case of work permit or land purchase or whatever -- is really a function of not giving anyone (mainly Thai but could be howley as well) a reason to hold a grudge such that they get even with you by turning you in to the authorities that be.