Cornbread: Need Advice From Expert

[JR Texas]

Like so many other American expats who grew up in the south (i.e., southern states of USA), I love and miss cornbread.

I am surrounded by corn, but it seems impossible to find dried corn. So, I cannot just grind that up.

Question: Is it possible to make cornbread using fresh corn?

Think about it.......how do you make cornbread.........you add milk and eggs and some butter to dried corn. So you make the dried corn wet corn.

Why can't you just skip the dried corn step and use wet corn?

If anybody has a recipe, especially for fried cornbread, please let me know. I am starving for pinto beans with ham and cornbread.

Thanks.

[Tywais]

I know it's not the same but I gave up trying to find ways of making corn bread from scratch so I found these at Rimping and quite happy to have corn bread again. Also grew up in Texas.

[Tywais]

Just found your other posts on this. Not having any luck with it it seems.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Cornmeal-t12...ad#entry1360872

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Cornbread-Qu...ad#entry1467990

[JR Texas]

I know it's not the same but I gave up trying to find ways of making corn bread from scratch so I found these at Rimping and quite happy to have corn bread again. Also grew up in Texas.

Howdy..........Welcome to the Great State Fair of Texas.............sorry, couldn't resist.

Anybody got any other ideas about how to make cornbread from fresh corn without drying it?

[sbk]

I would think you can't. i would think that corn would have too much moisture, Besides you aren't just going for the corn flavor but the whole flouriness that goes with cornmeal.

But, I do believe, if you have an electric mill, you can make cornmeal out of popcorn, JR.

[Heng]

I usually just fly home and go to Luby's.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

You can use a mix of corn meal and fresh corn. The only way around using corn meal is to use polenta or grits. You could try flour and baking powder, but you're not going to get the same texture as corn meal.

Edited April 4, 2009 by zaphodbeeblebrox

[maxjay]

I found Corn Meal put out by a company called Farm Valley. 105 baht for a 500 gram bag.

I purchased it in Nong Khai at a small shop called Nong Khai Direct, they sell Western Food items. Perhaps, if you telephone them: 042-467-757, they will give you the name of Farm Valley's distributor here in Thailand.

I would imagine, that since corm meal can be found in Nong Khai, surely it can be found in other areas of Thailand?

Couldn't find a recipe for fried corn bread, but from Betty Crocker:

Hush Puppies

Vegetable oil,

2 1/4 cups yellow cornmeal

1 teaspoon salt

2 tablespoons finely chopped onion

3/4 teaspoon baking soda

1 1/2 cups buttermilk

Heat oil (1 inch) to 375 degrees. Mix cornmeal, salt, onion, and baking soda. Stir in buttermilk. Drop by spoonfuls into hot oil. Fry until brown, about 2 minutes. Makes about 2 dozen hush puppies.

Betty said for skillet corn bread to pour the batter for corn bread into a greased 10 inch ovenproof skillet. Bake about 20 minutes at 450 degrees.

Edited April 4, 2009 by maxjay

[SlackJawChef]

If you want to use, fresh dried corn you will need to eather find Slate lime/pickling lime (used to make concrete harden) aka calcium hydroxide or wood ash.

If you soak your dried corn overnight in water with some wood ash in it, you will find in the morning that the pericarp, or hard outer shell will slide right off, and unlock all the nutrients inside the corn (if you skip this step you will receive absolutely no nutritanel value from your corn.

If you Google it, you can find the whole process. but I think this answers your original question .......

If you have lots of time on your hands, some dried Corn, a food processor, some wood ash or calcium hydroxide (Slate lime/pickling lime) and the willingness to involve yourself in a laborious task.... then you, my fine man will be truly rewarded .......

Its not as bad as it sounds, just spread the process over two or three days and remember to rinse and soak the corn well to remove the calcium hydroxide............ I have done it many times, just takes time so if your going to do it..... make lots,....

This just makes you the corn meal, you can go ahead and make some tortillas now...... or, you need to dry it again, then grind it to get your corn meal for baking. then you can procede to the recipy above..... Good luck and make lots,

keep in in an air tight container's in your freezer...... lots of small ones are better than one big one... plastic bag's with rubber bands should do the trick......

I guess you next question will be about buttermilk.......

[thaigerd]

I guess you next question will be about buttermilk......

You made my day!

Gerd

[cathyy]

You can buy cornmeal for making cornbread at Villa, and probably Carrefour, and Foodland too. It's labelled polenta, not cornmeal. I use it and get great results. I make northern style cornbread, so you don't want my recipe. I have successfully made southern-style cornbread in the past, though. You need to make it using self-rising flour, which I believe you can get at the usual farang shopping places, and without using any sugar.

You can substitute for buttermilk by putting a tablespoon of vinegar in a measuring cup, and then filling the cup the rest of the way with milk. Let it set a few minutes to clabber.

CORNBREAD

3/4 c. cornmeal

1 c. self rising flour

1 egg

1 c. buttermilk

1 tsp. baking powder

3 tbsp. Crisco

1/2 tsp. salt

Mix together cornmeal, flour, baking powder and salt. Drop egg in center, mix well. Stir in buttermilk, then melted Crisco. Bake at 450 degrees for 13 minutes. NOTE: Melt Crisco in pan you are baking cornbread in to grease it.

[maxjay]

Thanks for the buttermilk tip Cathyy. I can remember seeing fresh buttermilk for sale at Friendship Supermarket in Pattaya, but that was over 3 years ago.

I think for Southern style cornbread, one uses bacon grease instead of Crisco.

[Beachbunny]

I would think you can't. i would think that corn would have too much moisture, Besides you aren't just going for the corn flavor but the whole flouriness that goes with cornmeal.

But, I do believe, if you have an electric mill, you can make cornmeal out of popcorn, JR.

popcorn is different than dried corn and a completely different type of corn. I haven't found regular cornmeal, but Polenta is a type of corn meal. I found some at Foodland near the flours. You can try that.......That's what I'm going to do when I run out of the cornmeal I brought with me.

beachbunny

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

I would think you can't. i would think that corn would have too much moisture, Besides you aren't just going for the corn flavor but the whole flouriness that goes with cornmeal.

But, I do believe, if you have an electric mill, you can make cornmeal out of popcorn, JR.

popcorn is different than dried corn and a completely different type of corn. I haven't found regular cornmeal, but Polenta is a type of corn meal. I found some at Foodland near the flours. You can try that.......That's what I'm going to do when I run out of the cornmeal I brought with me.

beachbunny

Villa has cornmeal in its dry goods organics section.

[JR Texas]

You can buy cornmeal for making cornbread at Villa, and probably Carrefour, and Foodland too. It's labelled polenta, not cornmeal. I use it and get great results. I make northern style cornbread, so you don't want my recipe. I have successfully made southern-style cornbread in the past, though. You need to make it using self-rising flour, which I believe you can get at the usual farang shopping places, and without using any sugar.

You can substitute for buttermilk by putting a tablespoon of vinegar in a measuring cup, and then filling the cup the rest of the way with milk. Let it set a few minutes to clabber.

CORNBREAD

3/4 c. cornmeal

1 c. self rising flour

1 egg

1 c. buttermilk

1 tsp. baking powder

3 tbsp. Crisco

1/2 tsp. salt

Mix together cornmeal, flour, baking powder and salt. Drop egg in center, mix well. Stir in buttermilk, then melted Crisco. Bake at 450 degrees for 13 minutes. NOTE: Melt Crisco in pan you are baking cornbread in to grease it.

POLENTA! EUREKA! I thought it was only used for some Italian dish. Thanks Cathyy

[sbk]

I would think you can't. i would think that corn would have too much moisture, Besides you aren't just going for the corn flavor but the whole flouriness that goes with cornmeal.

But, I do believe, if you have an electric mill, you can make cornmeal out of popcorn, JR.

popcorn is different than dried corn and a completely different type of corn. I haven't found regular cornmeal, but Polenta is a type of corn meal. I found some at Foodland near the flours. You can try that.......That's what I'm going to do when I run out of the cornmeal I brought with me.

beachbunny

Popcorn is a kind of flint corn, so while it is harder than the regular dent type corns used to make corn meal, and while it doesn't grind as nicely, it can be ground and comes out with a slightly grittier texture.

But if polenta is available it sounds much easier than grinding your own

[getgoin]

Corn meal is readily available. Buy some.

[JR Texas]

Corn meal is readily available. Buy some.

I think you are assuming that all expats that want to buy cornmeal live next to Foodland in Pattaya (the only place I have ever seen it).

From my location, it would probably take me 6 hours to get there......

Cornmeal is not readily available in Thailand, especially in the countryside. Corn, is readily available.

[cathyy]

Thanks for the buttermilk tip Cathyy. I can remember seeing fresh buttermilk for sale at Friendship Supermarket in Pattaya, but that was over 3 years ago.

I think for Southern style cornbread, one uses bacon grease instead of Crisco.

You are right about the bacon grease. In fact, it would be a very idea to simply use that instead in the recipe. I was Googling for the closest I could get to a true Southern cornbread recipe. Most of them were calling for self-rising white cornmeal, and I know the poor OP will never find that in Thailand. I found the best recipe I could for Southern cornbread.

Here's my recipe for cornbread, Northern style; IMHO it is infinitely better than Southern cornbread. But I'm from Michigan, and you don't get much more Northern than that!

Cornbread

1 cup flour, sifted

¼ cup sugar

1 tablespoon baking powder

¾ teaspoon salt

1 cup yellow cornmeal

2 eggs

1 cup milk

¼ cup oil

PreHeat - 425°F

1. Sift flour, sugar, baking powder, and salt. Stir in cornmeal until well mixed..

2. Add eggs, milk, and oil, all at once. Beat until just smooth.

3. Pour into preheated greased 8" x 8" x 2" pan. Bake at 425° for 25-30 minutes.

[tutsiwarrior]

cathyy...in both of yer recipies can one simply substitute polenta for the yellow corn meal?

now back to the age old dilemma: where to find dried beans to make good 'ol beans an' cornbread like JR mentioned in his OP...

(add squash and you got perfect vegetable protein as in corn/beans/squash like they useta eat in pre-columbian mesoamerica and still do... )

[sbk]

black beans and kidney beans are widely available.

soak overnight, drain, refill with water and cook until done

fry with a bit of onion, chile, and seasonings.

Was waiting for your appearance tutsi

[bangsaenguy]

Pinto and lima beans are normally in stock at Friendship on Pattaya Tai. Never looked in BKK.

[tutsiwarrior]

black beans and kidney beans are widely available.

soak overnight, drain, refill with water and cook until done

fry with a bit of onion, chile, and seasonings.

Was waiting for your appearance tutsi

oh, puh-leeeze...kidney beans THAT COOK PROPERLY are not widely available; please see all the previous theads in this regard . I had only slight success with black beans and they were still unacceptably crunchy. I sourced all my beans from Tescos and I gather that those that have been successful got theirs from Foodland, Villa, etc.

When you live inna rural place dried beans fer cookin' are a trick on falangs ...

[marcus]

Like so many other American expats who grew up in the south (i.e., southern states of USA), I love and miss cornbread.

I am surrounded by corn, but it seems impossible to find dried corn. So, I cannot just grind that up.

Question: Is it possible to make cornbread using fresh corn?

Think about it.......how do you make cornbread.........you add milk and eggs and some butter to dried corn. So you make the dried corn wet corn.

Why can't you just skip the dried corn step and use wet corn?

If anybody has a recipe, especially for fried cornbread, please let me know. I am starving for pinto beans with ham and cornbread.

Thanks.

Dried corn is for sale in Makro.

No offence to the Americans intended, but in my country we wouldn't consider to use it for human consumption, however we admit it is the perfect food for chickens. If it is the same in Thailand, you might be more lucky to ask it on the "farming forum"

[sbk]

tutsi, clearly you do not cook your beans long enough. Trick is to use one of those charcoal pot stoves. and boil and boil

Another tip, is after you soak your beans and drain them, get a big pot of water on a high boil and slowly pour the beans into the boiling water. Make sure the water stays on a rolling boil the whole time.

I've been cooking black bean and kidney beans this way for about 17 years.

[JR Texas]

Like so many other American expats who grew up in the south (i.e., southern states of USA), I love and miss cornbread.

I am surrounded by corn, but it seems impossible to find dried corn. So, I cannot just grind that up.

Question: Is it possible to make cornbread using fresh corn?

Think about it.......how do you make cornbread.........you add milk and eggs and some butter to dried corn. So you make the dried corn wet corn.

Why can't you just skip the dried corn step and use wet corn?

If anybody has a recipe, especially for fried cornbread, please let me know. I am starving for pinto beans with ham and cornbread.

Thanks.

Dried corn is for sale in Makro.

No offence to the Americans intended, but in my country we wouldn't consider to use it for human consumption, however we admit it is the perfect food for chickens. If it is the same in Thailand, you might be more lucky to ask it on the "farming forum"

Thanks for expressing a cultural point of view on food. I understand. For example, I would not consider eating an insect.

You may be right about the dried corn thing........I think it is here........in fact, I see it in the stores that sell pesticides and fertilizer and seeds (corn seed).

It may be true that Thais think that the only thing you can do with dried corn is feed it to pigs, or whatever.

There was a time when Thais thought hamburgers and pizza were disgusting..........things change.

My guess is that you have never tried cornbread before. If you can do this, give it a try. Take a pork shoulder and smoke it for 11 hours or more. During the last two hours put honey all over it, some mustard, some cloves and wrap it up in tin foil.

Eat that and with the bone and some of the leftover meat, put it in a pot with pinto beans and cook until the beans are done. Then serve that with real cornbread and fresh onions.

Then let us know if you still think dried corn is not fit for human consumption. I think you will change your tune.

Might also want to try a tamale..........or a taco........or corn chips w/ hot sauce.........or corn tortillas.......or tamale pie........lots of good food out there made with or from dried corn.

[cathyy]

cathyy...in both of yer recipies can one simply substitute polenta for the yellow corn meal?

now back to the age old dilemma: where to find dried beans to make good 'ol beans an' cornbread like JR mentioned in his OP...

(add squash and you got perfect vegetable protein as in corn/beans/squash like they useta eat in pre-columbian mesoamerica and still do... )

Sure thing, Tutsi. Polenta IS cornmeal.

I am very happy that Freshmart in The Mall here in Korat has just started carrying a wide selection of dried beans. They have lentils, split green peas, navy beans, great northern beans, black beans, kidney beans, adzuki (small red) beans. Also soy beans, pinto beans, and I think even more.

Tutsi, are you adding salt to the beans or water before they have finished cooking? If you add salt while soaking or cooking them they will never get soft.

[cathyy]

Dried corn is for sale in Makro.

No offence to the Americans intended, but in my country we wouldn't consider to use it for human consumption, however we admit it is the perfect food for chickens. If it is the same in Thailand, you might be more lucky to ask it on the "farming forum"

There are two distinctly different kinds of corn, sweet corn and field corn. The difference between them is very like the difference between English garden peas and field peas. Americans don't consider field peas to be fit for human consumption, but others certainly consume them.

Sweet corn is the stuff you see used all over in Thailand, like corn on the cob, corn in a cup, and corn sundaes. It is sweet and tender. Field corn, on the other hand, isn't fit to eat as it is. It has to be dried and ground into flour, coarse for cornmeal, fine for masa.

The stuff sold in Makro is probably not meant for human consumption, but for animal feed, as you point out. As such, it hasn't been processed in a way to avoid contamination with unwanted things like fungus. Or worse, it's been treated with chemical dangerous to humans to kill fungus. I wouldn't risk it even if I had a way to grind it into cornmeal.

Edited April 9, 2009 by cathyy

[maxjay]

I know it's not the same but I gave up trying to find ways of making corn bread from scratch so I found these at Rimping and quite happy to have corn bread again. Also grew up in Texas.

I tried a box of this yesterday. I have to admit, it was pretty good and really easy to make. I added a 1/2 teaspoon of bacon grease to the batter and greased the pan with bacon grease.

[marcus]

Dried corn is for sale in Makro.

No offence to the Americans intended, but in my country we wouldn't consider to use it for human consumption, however we admit it is the perfect food for chickens. If it is the same in Thailand, you might be more lucky to ask it on the "farming forum"

There are two distinctly different kinds of corn, sweet corn and field corn. The difference between them is very like the difference between English garden peas and field peas. Americans don't consider field peas to be fit for human consumption, but others certainly consume them.

Sweet corn is the stuff you see used all over in Thailand, like corn on the cob, corn in a cup, and corn sundaes. It is sweet and tender. Field corn, on the other hand, isn't fit to eat as it is. It has to be dried and ground into flour, coarse for cornmeal, fine for masa.

The stuff sold in Makro is probably not meant for human consumption, but for animal feed, as you point out. As such, it hasn't been processed in a way to avoid contamination with unwanted things like fungus. Or worse, it's been treated with chemical dangerous to humans to kill fungus. I wouldn't risk it even if I had a way to grind it into cornmeal.

The Macro corn is for pop corn, so it should be safe to use it.

You are right that the animal corn might be treated with chemicals, however I doubt that they will be dangerous for humans.

But we forgot the easy thing : dry it by yourself

According to this site, it works like this :

Drying corn and beans has been done for years and years. The Pennsylvania Dutch, in particular, are noted for dishes made from this vegetable.

*To oven dry corn, plunge the freshly picked ears into boiling water for five minutes. Then dunk them into cold water. When cool enough to handle, cut the corn off the cob. Spread it out on large trays, preferably enamel, some home dryers say. The corn can be one to 1 1/2 inches in depth on the trays. Place them in a warm oven, about 150 degrees F. and leave them until the corn is thoroughly and rather brittle.

*If you have a wood burning stove, you can dry corn on the back of the stove or in the warming oven. You will want to stir it occasionally so it dries evenly.

*With a food dehydrator, follow the directions for drying corn that come with it.

*Store the corn in glass jars, plastic bags, plastic containers ,or clean coffee or shortening cans with tight fitting lids.