Thai Banks To Start Charging For Atm Withdrawals ...

[jgm005]

"By the way, I called Capital One to confirm that these fees are still not being charged and they confirmed it. I also found it stated on their website within their FAQ section. This isn't a complete solution to these ATM fees, but it can help reduce how often I may have to pay these fees."

Been using a Capital One ATM for several years and can confirm there is no fees and the exchange rate was slightly better then my local USA Credit Union ATM.

[jfchandler]

Capital One is a good U.S. credit card to have for those living or traveling abroad, because they are indeed one of the few that doesn't charge foreign currency transaction fees.

I've had a generally good experience with them for some years. There are two limitations, however...

1. Lots of small places here simply don't take credit cards, apart from those that will, but tack on an added charge. So using their card hardly is a complete replacement for ATMs or cash.

2. Capital One, more than other U.S. card issuers, is fussy about the location of your purchases for anti-fraud reasons, if they show up away from the address you have on record with them. So, if you live in the U.S. and suddenly travel to Thailand without telling them, and then use your card here in LOS, you're liable to find your card locked after a couple of purchases. (And the only way you'll find out is when you go to make a purchase and suddenly your card is declined). Then you'll have to call their fraud section, and jump thru some hoops to get it reinstated.

There is a solution to this, however. For example, if you live here, just call them and ask them to place a note on your file that you're living/working/visiting, etc. in Thailand (or wherever) for XX amount of time. I think the longest period they'll keep the note for is one year. So ex-pat residents may have to renotify them every year or so in order to avoid problems. For travelers, just tell them the duration of your trip before you leave home.

[Tyke]

That does still leave me with the issue of how to get my cards replaced when they expire (Visa credit card end of May 2009) and two Flexaccount cards in 2010. .

If you have family in the Uk, you can change your address to theirs. All correspondence will go to their address and they can forward the cards.

I have had this problem in the past and it aint easy to solve, however:

1. Nationwide automatically sends a new card to the UK address you have registered with them - they won't send it to an overseas address, as far as I can recall, because of security issues.

2. To get the new card from the UK to Thailand is the problem. I would not trust normal airmail or registered delivery as Thai post cannot be trusted at all.

3. Courier delivery is the only secure postal option - but the problem is they refuse to handle credit/debit cards - so the only option here is not to tell them if they don't inspect the contents. I don't know if any courier companies don't inspect in the Uk because in BKK, DHL always inspect - but Fed Ex does not - so maybe FedEx do not inspect in the UK also - I dunno but worth trying.

4. The only really safe way to get the card over here is to ask a friend/relative to bring it when they come over - that's the way I have always done it, but it means you have to wait till someone comes over - so needs long-term planning and maybe early card renewal which can be ordered online with Flexaccount.

5. To avoid being without a card during the renewal process, it's best to get more than 1 Flexaccounts - with different expiry dates - I have 2 - one in my own name and a joint one with my sister - so I can transfer between accounts when needed and use either one when the other is up for renewal or has expired. It also measn I can do a simple transfer online to pay any debts I have to my sister if she pays any bills for me in the UK that crop up from time to time.

Edited April 30, 2009 by Tyke

[Tyke]

My sick mind in action again:

So the way things are going would you recommend Thailand as a vacation spot, I dam_n sure wouldn't. They don't seem realize how many people read these forums. I don't ever recall seeing a news release on this doesn't matter word got out faster then swine (Opps Mexico) flu. This is place is definetly in it's own world for sure.

If the international news would pick i up for just one day they would drop that fee in a heart beat. So worried about tourist I think they have nade it vrey clear what their intent is in getting them here.

But why should the Thai banking association be so worried about tourist numbers? The government sure, but why should the TBA not try to recoup the cost of transactions by tourists who probably don't bank with them anyway? I don't necessarily disagree with a charge, it's just the high cost of it that I object to, but maybe that is what it costs the banks to process a non-customer cash withdrawal.

[jgm005]

"There is a solution to this, however. For example, if you live here, just call them and ask them to place a note on your file that you're living/working/visiting, etc. in Thailand (or wherever) for XX amount of time. I think the longest period they'll keep the note for is one year. So ex-pat residents may have to renotify them every year or so in order to avoid problems. For travelers, just tell them the duration of your trip before you leave home."

Exactly ...

Capital One is very conscious of where purchases are made and any break in a pattern you'll be flagged. This also applies to their ATM on their Money Market account. Which is what I use to fund my Kasikorn Bank account. I call a week ahead of time and give them my travel plans. Bit of a hassle but worth it!

[Tyke]

With respect to all, I beleive that the Thai bank has no influence on the Exchange Rate for a cash advance whether over the counter or by ATM. I think it's the rate applied by the bank that issued the card in the country of issue at the time it hits the account.

THAT'S why using different cards in different banks shows up different rates - the time SCB takes to notify Nationwide will almost certainly be different from the time it takes Kasikorn to notify Nationwide, or Barclays or whoever.

This matches my perception of what happens.

FWIW, I just (3pm today) used both my Nationwide Debit (Visa) and Cashcard (Cirrus) to draw 14,000 baht with each from a Kasikorn ATM (major branch in Chiang Mai). No on-screen mention of 150 baht and the receipt slips say "Fee: 0.00". The transactions aren't currently showing online, but I'll check/compare them to see what the effective exchange rate applied for each (as per my earlier post on matching withdrawals from an SCB ATM last week).

I also happened to spot a mobile GSB ATM (basically a van with the ATM in its side) parked nearby. Having already maxed out both cards (as per Nationwide's GBP 300 per day limit) at Kasikorn, I couldn't try it - but I did spot Visa logo's on the machine (as well as some other system called "Plus"); that leads me to think it would accept Visa Debit cards but not Cirrus/Maestro etc - there being no mention of those on the GSB ATM).

I hope some of this feedback helps some here - it's what I remember ThaiVisa being best for. None of us likes this situation, but backbite jumping on those with whom you disagree isn't likely to be helpful. Reading the thread from first post to last, I see repeated examples of people (innocently and understandably) confusing different kinds of card - debit versus credit versus purely cash/ATM cards. There also seems to be some variation in terminology between US & UK usage (ntm our continental European members). As touched on by jfchandler, I (as a Brit) take "cash advance" to mean a credit transaction (i.e. a loan) - as opposed to a withdrawal/transfer of funds that I already have. It really wouldn't be surprising if a Thai bank worker perceived it the same way - and we (surely?) all know that credit transactions hit hard with charges whether expressed as fees or poor exchange rates or both.

I disagree, when you buy baht with foreign currency, which is what an ATM transaction is, the Thai central bank has a central rate and the other banks can vary that rate - but the final rate is set by the bank that supplies the currency that you are buying - just like in a forex booth. And because both your own bank and the ATM bank do work to service your transaction, they can both impose a further separate bank charge but they have to declare that to you at the time of purchase.

[Steve2UK]

FWIW, I just (3pm today) used both my Nationwide Debit (Visa) and Cashcard (Cirrus) to draw 14,000 baht with each from a Kasikorn ATM (major branch in Chiang Mai). No on-screen mention of 150 baht and the receipt slips say "Fee: 0.00". The transactions aren't currently showing online, but I'll check/compare them to see what the effective exchange rate applied for each (as per my earlier post on matching withdrawals from an SCB ATM last week).

Follow up to the above - now that I've seen the transactions online:

Debit card (Visa) : THB 14,000 = GBP 270.60 (effective rate 51.73)

Cashcard (Cirrus) : THB 14,000 = GBP 271.78 (effective rate 51.51)

Same kind of differential as I noted in Post #508 - the Debit Visa card works out to be marginally better (presumably this will reverse when Nationwide start to pass on what will be a 1% Visa transaction charge).

[thecatman]

Debit card (Visa) : THB 14,000 = GBP 270.60 (effective rate 51.73)

Cashcard (Cirrus) : THB 14,000 = GBP 271.78 (effective rate 51.51)

Same kind of differential as I noted in Post #508 - the Debit Visa card works out to be marginally better (presumably this will reverse when Nationwide start to pass on what will be a 1% Visa transaction charge).

Cheers for taking the time to report that bit of reaserch Steve. I'll consider getting the cashcard when I return to the UK this summer (which funnily enough, is the very day Nationwide start to put the 1% charge into effect).

Edited April 30, 2009 by thecatman

[JimGant]

With respect to all, I beleive that the Thai bank has no influence on the Exchange Rate for a cash advance whether over the counter or by ATM. I think it's the rate applied by the bank that issued the card in the country of issue at the time it hits the account.

Unless dynamic currency conversion (DCC) is involved, where currency conversion is done instantly in accordance with the (outlandish) rate established by the servicing bank -- not Visa/MC nor the issuing bank.

Here's an excerpt from an article of 2 years ago (the full article can be found HERE) The article is about a test project to introduce DCC to ATM machines! Since DCC is a complete screw-job to the consumer, I can only believe the test project failed.

....consumers must choose between paying for currency at a foreign exchange rate set by their own bank or at a rate - displayed on-screen - offered by the bank or currency provider that owns the overseas ATM.

Of course the consumer has no idea what his bank's rate is, so can't make an intelligent comparison. Only eventual word-of-mouth of the screw-job will allow the non-DCC choice. And maybe that's what happened, as I've not heard of DCC ATM machines except in this article.

At least they're given a choice, as required by Visa/MC, since the transaction rides their networks. But, as we saw a few years back, merchants in Thailand using DCC never offered you a choice -- and even when queried would say "no choice." Maybe same same for SCB cash advance operations......

Choiceless DCC ATM machines next in Thailand? Makes 150bt sound super.

[phutoie2]

After reading about the Kasikorn ATM's on this topic. I used one today at Tesco's in Petchabun City and no fee on receipt.

Checked my UK bank online and got 52.14 Baht. I am with Nationwide Building Society.

Pound having a good week???

[Steve2UK]

After reading about the Kasikorn ATM's on this topic. I used one today at Tesco's in Petchabun City and no fee on receipt.

Checked my UK bank online and got 52.14 Baht. I am with Nationwide Building Society.

Pound having a good week???

Not sure what you define as "good" - I'd say the patient is doing as well as can be expected ..........

That said, it has been edging up a bit this week. For all but major transfers, I tend to go by the ThaiVisa baht rates - a reasonable guide to what I can expect to see as a rate on my Nationwide account; if anything, they're very slightly higher than I actually get. This week's rates:

Monday 51.9859

Tuesday 51.7866

Wednesday 52.0129

Thursday 52.4274

[kez172]

isitallbanks? im sure one or two dont still.

[phaethon]

I passed some poor sucker at an ATM on level 2 Siam Discovery, glancing at the screen I could see the "You have been charged 150 baht" displayed, he only had a couple of 1k notes in his hand, so a significant percentage added there. I recognized the ATM, but having got back now, just can't visualize it...

[jfchandler]

No-ATM fee banks at present:

Kasikorn (green), Ayudhya (yellow), and Government Savings Bank (pink).

[venturalaw]

Thanks Langsuan Man... I do appreciate hearing/knowing your experience with ETrade... As I said, I'm thinking to go ahead and give them a try for their checking...

But I also believe in having multiple options available, since things are always changing. So I've already signed up for a Schwab account (reimburses foreign fees) and another regular bank one with free/reimbursed ATM use worldwide...

Between the three of them, I should be covered!

I opened a Schwab checking acct. (have to open a brokerage account in order to have a checking acct.) which requires no minimum balance, and actually pays 1 percent interest. The main reason I opened it was its policy to reimburse all fees charged when accessing/transferring my funds from Schwab. Works perfectly.

[donx]

"There is a solution to this, however. For example, if you live here, just call them and ask them to place a note on your file that you're living/working/visiting, etc. in Thailand (or wherever) for XX amount of time. I think the longest period they'll keep the note for is one year. So ex-pat residents may have to renotify them every year or so in order to avoid problems. For travelers, just tell them the duration of your trip before you leave home."

Exactly ...

Capital One is very conscious of where purchases are made and any break in a pattern you'll be flagged. This also applies to their ATM on their Money Market account. Which is what I use to fund my Kasikorn Bank account. I call a week ahead of time and give them my travel plans. Bit of a hassle but worth it!

There is an online form for my Chase Bank credit card where I can submit my travel plans. I've never used it before because I've never had a problem with using that card where ever I go. But I will definitely let Capital One know about my upcoming trip to Thailand. If they don't have an online form then I will just call them to let them know.

[pkrv]

"There is a solution to this, however. For example, if you live here, just call them and ask them to place a note on your file that you're living/working/visiting, etc. in Thailand (or wherever) for XX amount of time. I think the longest period they'll keep the note for is one year. So ex-pat residents may have to renotify them every year or so in order to avoid problems. For travelers, just tell them the duration of your trip before you leave home."

Exactly ...

Capital One is very conscious of where purchases are made and any break in a pattern you'll be flagged. This also applies to their ATM on their Money Market account. Which is what I use to fund my Kasikorn Bank account. I call a week ahead of time and give them my travel plans. Bit of a hassle but worth it!

There is an online form for my Chase Bank credit card where I can submit my travel plans. I've never used it before because I've never had a problem with using that card where ever I go. But I will definitely let Capital One know about my upcoming trip to Thailand. If they don't have an online form then I will just call them to let them know.

I log this stuff by phone in the UK - Even so there were some embarrased staff in Siam Paragon waiting for confirmation after the card was declined. We were/are setting up a home, big stuff. Card of course accepted

Edited April 30, 2009 by pkrv

[Mali1964]

Most banks in the UK require you let them know when your overseas for debit & credit card or they will block your card after its 1st use the Nationwide do not have this policy for some reason.

Barclays bank can be done online for instance.

If you forget to notify from UK Calling your bank from Thailand is not a problem if you have a Voip phone subscription you can even call 0845 from Voip with little problem.

[jfchandler]

I believe with Capital One, you need to call them by phone. I've never seen any online link for reporting travel plans on their web site.

[citizen33]

For many of us Brits who've used our Flexaccounts happily for many years, I suspect the issue will come down to whether we would now be better off using bank transfers of larger amounts (especially if we make regular payments and are not always at the Thai end ourselves). Looking back through the thread, the Halifax option at £9 per transaction seems one of the best. My question, for anybody who has used this method is: what are the charges at the Thai bank end and what exchange rate will they give you (I'm taking it as read that it is far better to remit in sterling)?

On the NW Flexaccount, I'm not sure that the option of always 'maxing' the ATM withdrawal would work for me. A couple of years ago I always used to get 20k per withdrawal with no problems, but a lot of ATMs I use now only seem to want to pay out 10K per time (haven't experimented to see if the precise cut-off point is say 15K to coincide with £300).

[thecatman]

On the NW Flexaccount, I'm not sure that the option of always 'maxing' the ATM withdrawal would work for me. A couple of years ago I always used to get 20k per withdrawal with no problems, but a lot of ATMs I use now only seem to want to pay out 10K per time (haven't experimented to see if the precise cut-off point is say 15K to coincide with £300).

Yeah, the cut off is currently at around the 15,000Bt (£300) mark ( I got 15K out only the other day). Unless of course, you have managed to rise your personal daily ATM withdrawal limit with Nationwide (if this is possible).

Edited April 30, 2009 by thecatman

[Chaimai]

Most banks in the UK require you let them know when your overseas for debit & credit card or they will block your card after its 1st use the Nationwide do not have this policy for some reason.

Nationwide have a Holiday Notification sub heading in their email messages but it is no use. N/Wide like all/most banks will use a risk assessment model run through their Fraud Operations team. Simply, any "unusual" pattern will trigger a block on the card. Only a 10 minute job to sort out on the phone - this has happened to me twice in the last 4 weeks.

[Mali1964]

Most banks in the UK require you let them know when your overseas for debit & credit card or they will block your card after its 1st use the Nationwide do not have this policy for some reason.

Nationwide have a Holiday Notification sub heading in their email messages but it is no use. N/Wide like all/most banks will use a risk assessment model run through their Fraud Operations team. Simply, any "unusual" pattern will trigger a block on the card. Only a 10 minute job to sort out on the phone - this has happened to me twice in the last 4 weeks.

That's correct as i had experience of a locked card with a Barclay's debit card i took no chance's with Nationwide, but when i rang them i was surprised with their laid back attitude compared to Barclay's, they did say they monitor for unusual pattern's & that they cover you if your card happens to get cloned.

[Mali1964]

On the NW Flexaccount, I'm not sure that the option of always 'maxing' the ATM withdrawal would work for me. A couple of years ago I always used to get 20k per withdrawal with no problems, but a lot of ATMs I use now only seem to want to pay out 10K per time (haven't experimented to see if the precise cut-off point is say 15K to coincide with £300).

Yeah, the cut off is currently at around the 15,000Bt (£300) mark ( I got 15K out only the other day). Unless of course, you have managed to rise your personal daily ATM withdrawal limit with Nationwide (if this is possible).

Remember the good old days when £300 gave you 20,000 baht hope it comes back one day soon

[citizen33]

Most banks in the UK require you let them know when your overseas for debit & credit card or they will block your card after its 1st use the Nationwide do not have this policy for some reason.

Nationwide have a Holiday Notification sub heading in their email messages but it is no use. N/Wide like all/most banks will use a risk assessment model run through their Fraud Operations team. Simply, any "unusual" pattern will trigger a block on the card. Only a 10 minute job to sort out on the phone - this has happened to me twice in the last 4 weeks.

That's correct as i had experience of a locked card with a Barclay's debit card i took no chance's with Nationwide, but when i rang them i was surprised with their laid back attitude compared to Barclay's, they did say they monitor for unusual pattern's & that they cover you if your card happens to get cloned.

See this recent e-mail from Nationwide for their current policy.

Dear Member,

Thank you for your message.

We no longer require notification of your intended debit card use abroad.

If you have a Credit Card it is not necessary for you to notify us of your travel arrangements but if it is your wish, we will record on your account the dates and destination of your travel. Please note that this will not guarantee that your card will never be declined. Should you wish to contact Nationwide Credit Card Services please dial 08457 998899, or +44 2476 438997 if abroad. Credit Card services are open between 8am and 10pm Monday to Friday, 8am to 8pm on Saturdays and 9am to 5pm on Sundays.

At Nationwide we constantly monitor all card use and spending patterns, especially those taking place abroad. This includes checking for sudden large or unusual withdrawals/purchases, which are not in character with the account. If we have any concerns about a transaction on your account, we will contact you to discuss it. In order to do this we need to have your most up to date contact details on our system. Preferably a mobile telephone number so we can contact you whilst abroad.

To provide/update your contact details please complete the following:

- Once signed on select the option 'My Details' from the top navigation options

- Now ensure that all your contact details are up to date

- Now scroll to the bottom of the page and click on 'Next'

- Your details have now been successfully updated

If your card(s) are lost, stolen, or captured by a cash machine while you're abroad, or you have any problems using your card(s). Please let us know immediately by contacting our 24 hour Call Centre on +44 1793 656789. For Credit Cards please contact us on +44 2476 438996.

[jgm005]

Government Savings Bank still does not have the 150 bt fee as of noon time 01/May

[Langsuan Man]

Thank you,

Could we get a report on Kasikorn and Bank of Ayudhya , please

Edited May 1, 2009 by Langsuan Man

[Briggsy]

I'd like to thank all those that are posting their real results of using ATM's from various banks and counter withdrawals. These real experiences are very helpful.

[citizen33]

Just noticed a bank that has branches in Isaan and rural areas (591 branches) and doesn't seem to be on the Thai Bank Association list - Bank For Agriculture And Agricultural Cooperative (BAAC).

I don't suppose anybody knows if they do fee-free ATM withdrawals?

Edited May 1, 2009 by citizen33

[cloudbusting]

No 150 baht fee at Kasikorn at 14.00 today.