True Democracy In Thailand

[coxhoedave]

As an outsider looking in it would appear that democracy in Thailand is facing a long struggle.

There are many barriers to be crossed the first surely being certain people's opposition to any sort of challenge to Thailand's rigid social hierarchy. Any such talk often is met with Macarthist like fanaticism. The result of this is for fingers to be pointed at this or that politician and be accused of being a republican in much the same way people were accused of being communist in fifties America.

Now we find ourselves in a situation where people are alarmed that millions of the rural poor pine for the return of Taksin (who denies being a republican). This man is without doubt a geedy, corrupt and generally unsavoury character, but it should be of no surprise they want him to return, given that he was the first Thai poitician to campaign for, and deliver policies aimed directly at poor rural masses such as healthcare.

On the other side of the fence we have the People's Alliance for Democracy, who despite their promising title want a parliament 70% of which is appointed. Hardly a movement with the best interest of the majority at heart.

Add to this mix a shackled media and corrupt police force and it's hard to see a way forward.

In the West the way to go would be fresh elections but in Thailand a free election would mean the return to power of a Pro Taksin government (as have the last three elections), something that Bangkok elite would never entertain.

What this country is crying out for is a figure as uncorrupt as current P.M. Abhisit Vejjajiva but with the vision to aim programs aimed for the benefit of the masses. Perhaps, most importantly, the upper echilons of the social hierachy must embrace, rather than fear the thought of well educated and prosperous working class.

Personally, I'm not holding my breath.

[TheUsernameIsAlreadyTaken]

There is NOT 1 country in the world I know with a "true democracy". The only country that comes closest is Switzerland, all other so called "democracies" are in real FAKE democracies, and worse, the people live in the fake democracies usually do not know it.

[sabaijai]

There are many kinds of democracy and it's about time Thai leaders forged a system that fits the society and the deep divisions between rural and urban dwellers, north and northeast versus central, Bangkok and south. Perhaps something along the lines of Belgium's bicameral parliament, which helps the country deal with deep, long-held divisions between the Flemish and the French.

[PhilM]

I think it can come. It would be better if there was some constitutional reform before a new election though. I agree with those that want to go back to the pre-coup constitution and close the loopholes that Thaksin abused. New elections alone won't solve problems because Puea Thai and Democrats will get a similar share of the vote again.

Mostly though there needs to be a spread of democracy to local people. Democrats will just follow the old political ways. When people are on the streets they just stay quiet until it's over.

But everyone who supports Thaksin says "He gave... to the people for the first time" etc. I think that's true on some issues. But he never seemed too interested in education. And now redshirts are not organizing working people, or helping unemployed or creating an organization where commom people have any say. They don't seem interested in poor people's problems. It's just "Thaksin gives ...Thaksin gives...". There's nothing about letting people take control of their own lives and own affairs locally. Democracy just means come and vote every 4 years and trust us provide for you.

So the most important thing for democracy is for people to be involved. But what political parties in Thailand will let people set the agenda. Certainly not Democrats or Puea Thai. But maybe we are seeing a start with these movements - people may feel they don't have to rely on only the big politicians.

[Digitalman]

Things within Thai society need to change first.

You cannot hold democracy in the same breath with certain elements of Thai society. Philosophically incompatible, it has made for an unstable political system.

THE REAL QUESTION is can JUSTICE be established (I am not talking about political justice.)

[CelticBhoy]

Democracy here? Not in any of our lifetimes, I'm sorry to say.

What's been happening over the last while has set the country back years.

I always felt Thailand was that bit smarter, bit more switched-on than it's neighbours,

but I was being a tad naive with that kind of thinking it would seem. Recent events have

put them back to where they were 20+ years ago.

[mc2]

There are many barriers to be crossed the first surely being certain people's opposition to any sort of challenge to Thailand's rigid social hierarchy.

i completely agree, for thailand to progress beyond the feudal thinking level, there needs to be a shakeup in the way society is structred.

this cow towing subservience nonsense must go,

unfortunatly they have been horribly, horribly brainwashed

[sabaijai]

But everyone who supports Thaksin says "He gave... to the people for the first time" etc. I think that's true on some issues. But he never seemed too interested in education.

That's true. Education has always been the strongest plank in the Demo platform, reinforced with the current administration making education free for all until age 15. I've been supporting the schooling of my Thai neighbour's children for years. He just came to thank me for past help, and to tell me the government now pays. I think it's action like this that will have the most long-term impact since, as has been noted, without better education it's difficult for a democratic system to take hold.

Someday ...

[kennkate]

Democracy in any form Doubtfull in the next 50 years

Sure things will change. Thai People have A mountain to climb

At this moment I don't think they have the willpower to go for it.

I hope this mess sorts it self out without a Civil War

That would certainly bring change But at what cost

Thousands upon Thousands. No not a good idea.

[Scott]

Maybe first there will be anarchy, then democracy. Hopefully not a civil war.

[eldar1]

I do believe there will be a real democracy in thailand, albeit with a thai flavour, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. There are still hurdles to overcome, cronyism and money politics as made famous by thaksin need to be abolished, internal corruption needs to be drastically reduced, the power and influence of the army needs to be reduced to zero and the regularity of vote buying that thailand is famous for needs to stop. Once most of these issues are addressed then thailand can truly be a country with a real democracy.

[Kitsch22]

Democracy in any form Doubtfull in the next 50 years

Sure things will change. Thai People have A mountain to climb

At this moment I don't think they have the willpower to go for it.

I hope this mess sorts it self out without a Civil War

That would certainly bring change But at what cost

Thousands upon Thousands. No not a good idea.

My understanding is that we are not permitted to discuss here the inevitable event that will someday remove the barrier to civil war in Thailand that has endured for decades.

[mhatami]

Democracy here? Not in any of our lifetimes, I'm sorry to say.

What's been happening over the last while has set the country back years.

I always felt Thailand was that bit smarter, bit more switched-on than it's neighbours,

but I was being a tad naive with that kind of thinking it would seem. Recent events have

put them back to where they were 20+ years ago.

Come on guys.

This is t\Thailand we you are talking about.

I would wish one side would win and get this over, and then we go back to what a Thailand will and should be

[wasabi]

I love this quote from this blog it shows the true nature of it all.

Look at the street vendors selling the red shirts and headbands. I wouldn’t be surprised if they were the same ones selling yellow shirts and clappers a few months ago.

blog

[Digitalman]

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Edited April 11, 2009 by Digitalman

[Digitalman]

There are many barriers to be crossed the first surely being certain people's opposition to any sort of challenge to Thailand's rigid social hierarchy.

i completely agree, for thailand to progress beyond the feudal thinking level, there needs to be a shakeup in the way society is structred.

this cow towing subservience nonsense must go,

unfortunatly they have been horribly, horribly brainwashed

I agree with you for the most part. There are some issues there that would make a healthy democracy impossible at the moment. This is certainly not the way.

[wasabi]

There are many barriers to be crossed the first surely being certain people's opposition to any sort of challenge to Thailand's rigid social hierarchy.

i completely agree, for thailand to progress beyond the feudal thinking level, there needs to be a shakeup in the way society is structred.

this cow towing subservience nonsense must go,

unfortunatly they have been horribly, horribly brainwashed

I agree with you for the most part. There are some issues there that would make a healthy democracy impossible at the moment. This is certainly not the way.

Can you give examples of brainwashing that you speak of?

[Mrjlh]

I agree with you , it will take a long time to get there if it ever does. I'm not going to hold my breath either. One of the biggest problems, which I believe is also world wide, is you can't teach democracy, you have to live it so you understand it. Then you can "start" teaching it. And even there you have a problem because people have forgotten what it means. In Thailand there are many "so-called" Professors that teach democracy because they have studied it. You can't learn it from a book! And these people are the ones in government. I think they are trying to incorporate it into a system which has too many old ties to past with lots of complications attached. They need to get past the "good old boys" club attitude of how much you give me ($$) and I'll give you in return for starters. Get rid to this notion that if you belong to a "political party", it's always right and everyone else is wrong. Biggest problem in the US. Nobody wants to say, "you know the other guy has a good idea there." Then you need to re-educate people that democracy isn't about your own "freedoms" and "rights", as it is more about everyones "freedoms and rights". We work together to maintain that ideal. Just look at the way they drive here...get out of my way or I'll run you down attitude. Total lack of respect for the other driver or even the pedestrian. Then it's all about the other guys "rights and freedoms" being abused.

JMHO....

[PattayaParent]

There is NOT 1 country in the world I know with a "true democracy". The only country that comes closest is Switzerland, all other so called "democracies" are in real FAKE democracies, and worse, the people live in the fake democracies usually do not know it.

Very true.

It's usually the countries that call for others to become a democracy that need to fix their own system first in order for it to be democratic.

[gregb]

True democracy is about respecting the rule of law above all else. Elections are only an incidental part of the process. The elected leaders are still supposedly bound to uphold the law. That is why we are electing them. Elections without the rule of law are useless. Saddam Hussein was overwhelmingly elected by the people. That didn't make Iraq a democracy.

This problem of destroying democracy started when Thaksin began manipulating the law to suit his own benefit. That behavior alienated a large section of the educated Thai population, but in and of itself would not have started down the path to civil war had not Thaksin's ego gotten so inflated after his success that he decided he wouldn't share the spoils with the other Thai elite.

THAT was the root of the problem. Yes, some people caught up in this really are fighting for democracy... democracy that was first destroyed by Thaksin and later by the coup and PAD. But the civil war that seems to be brewing is not over democracy. It is about whether the current elite criminals or the elite criminal in exile get the spoils of the country. If that problem can be solved, then yes, some return to democracy for Thailand is possible, but never "true" democracy.

Remember, this is about two very wealthy and powerful groups who are manipulating and in some cases outright changing the law for their own benefit. Once they stop that....once the powerful agree to abide by the law, only then can democracy happen.

Does anyone believe that any of the elite in Thailand will respect the law? I haven't seen it. Don't hold your breath for "true" democracy, but we might get a return to something resembling normalcy if one or the other elite Thai group is defeated. This is not a people's uprising that can be solved by granting people more power. This is a proxy war for the elite, and democracy is only a hostage.